Mini Lathe

[dxdexter]

I have had need many times to seek the services of machinists over the years, mostly for small items, and would now like to venture into this field and learn as I go.

I have only a cursory knowledge of machining and would like to purchase a bench top mini lathe. I know the standard answer for this forum is to buy USA and nothing else period, but all I have been able to find is offshore manufactured products. The prices range from $600 for a 7x12" up to $1200 for a 10"x18".

Much of what I have discovered, while researching, is that many of the hobbyists that produce miniature engines etc. use these offshore products. Does anyone have any experience with the smaller model lathes and could they recommend any in particular. Do they give accurate results out of the box or do they need tweaking?

Maybe I should be looking for used. Do domestic manufacturers produce these small units?

I do not have the room for a large lathe, nor the requirements.

[wilbilt]

I have three of the old 1940s Craftsman/Dunlap 6x18 109.0703 lathes. To be honest, they are not the most capable machines out there. An Atlas-manufactured 101 series would be a better choice if you are looking for a small lathe in the "early iron" category.

As far as the Chinese minilathes, I have heard that they can be made to do an acceptable job after some tweaking and blueprinting. They are considered by many as "unfinished kits" as they come out of the box.

[jimvannoy]

I have an old Craftsman/Atlas 618 series lathe that does a good job. Picked it up for $100.00 at a garage sale. I use to have a Craftsman 109 series it was not nearly as good as the 618.

[jimvannoy]

Just remembered another one I use to have was a Unimat DB200. It was a really nice small lathe. There are lots and lots of accessories you can get for it. Found this one on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Unimat-Lathe-Machine-DB200-with-a-lot-of-accessories_W0QQitemZ250165692936QQihZ015QQcategor yZ13876QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[OldCarGuy]

I have a 14" swing gear head lathe that was manufactured in China. I machined everything from brake drums & discs to external & internal threads on it. It even has the capability do metric threads. It’s a lot easier to put out close tolerance work on a good quality lathe. As it takes a craftsman and his knowledge of that particular machine can produce high quality parts.

Five years ago I purchased a 25 year old 15" Clausing-Colchester Geared Head Lathe. It weighs four times as much and a real pleasure to run. It has all but replaced my import. There’s nothing like heavy iron!

[Detroit Diesel Man]

If you want a "Mini-Lathe" most are going to be foreign made..I have one from "Cummins Tools"..bought it off the net from their site for 299...its the 12" model and comes with accessories the others dont..was the best bang for the buck..their are alot of sites dedicated to this lathe..they range from 7x10 to 7x14...yahoo groups web sites and links can be found all over..they include plans for tooling and mods to the lathe itself..I really like mine..no problems with it at all...theirs a website that specializes in tooling and parts for these small lathes as well..posted below are 2 great links..yes they are foreign..they wont work like a souhtbend will..they have limits..but if you work around those limits and take care of the lathe it will serve you well..like I said I love mine....hope this helps.

http://www.mini-lathe.com/
http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm
http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,876,0.htm
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Links.htm#Home_Shops


DDM

[Uncle Buck]

I have had need many times to seek the services of machinists over the years, mostly for small items, and would now like to venture into this field and learn as I go.

I have only a cursory knowledge of machining and would like to purchase a bench top mini lathe. I know the standard answer for this forum is to buy USA and nothing else period, but all I have been able to find is offshore manufactured products. The prices range from $600 for a 7x12" up to $1200 for a 10"x18".

Much of what I have discovered, while researching, is that many of the hobbyists that produce miniature engines etc. use these offshore products. Does anyone have any experience with the smaller model lathes and could they recommend any in particular. Do they give accurate results out of the box or do they need tweaking?

Maybe I should be looking for used. Do domestic manufacturers produce these small units?

I do not have the room for a large lathe, nor the requirements.

I have an old Craftsman/Atlas 618 series lathe that does a good job. Picked it up for $100.00 at a garage sale. I use to have a Craftsman 109 series it was not nearly as good as the 618.

I think the lathe shown in jims picture should be what you start looking for. The more tooling you can get with the machine the better the deal. Machines such as the one jim showed are highly sought after, and many times bid to stupid money on pee bay. If you are impatient you can look to spend $400-500 machine and some basic tooling on up to as much as $800-1000 for a well maintained heavily tooled 6 inch lathe such as the one shown.

Jim's $100 price for that machine is rare today. Many will dismiss the Atlas 6-12 lathes as junk due to flat ways, gears made of a pot metal alloy that are easily damaged or destroyed, lathe beds that allow for too much flex and the fact that the machines are simply not hefty enough to make heavy cuts in one pass.

I do not agree. Atlas/Craftsman machines are what they are, a home hobbyist machine that simply work great for a learner or starter lathe; additionally these machines can produce accurate work given a few provisions 1) A worn out machine that has not seen enough care will not do accurate work. 2) The machines are not substantial enough to remove 50 thousandths of an inch in one pass, but neither are the import 7 x 10" jobs. These machines are easily found if you seriously start looking around.

Another good aspect of purchasing old USA stuff is you can always re sell the machine and at least get your money back out of it. I would suggest one major departure from what you are looking for if you can do it. Forget the 6-7 inch swing machines and start looking for at least a 9" machine. You will pay almost as much to play with a 6-7 incher as you will to step up to a 9-12" swing machine. Plus, you will find so many more of the 9-12 tool room sized machines out there. Another aspect to buying the larger size is a greater audience if you ever lose interest or want to upgrade!

Other good reasons to go with the larger size are, there are many other quality brands that can do heavier work than Atlas machines that can be had for the same, or not much more money. I would look for a used machine by one of the following names (not worn out) tooled as heavily at the time of purchase as you can get; on all machine tools of any type or brand tooling will far exceed the purchase price of the machine if you have to hunt things down separately. Stick to one of these used brands Sheldon, Logan, Southbend, Montgomery Ward (re badged Logan, or a Craftsman which is a rebadged Atlas) yes even an old Atlas if not too worn out would be alright if you cannot find one of the other brands first. Also try to get a machine with a Quick change gear box if you can, but I would not let it be a deal breaker for me on my first learner machine. QC gearbox prevents having to hand change out each and every gear at the headstock by hand. Which brings up another good point, if you buy an old hand change gear machine make Damned sure you get all the gears that are supposed to come with the machine.

Well, I hope that helps some! Good luck.

[dxdexter]

Thanks guy. Great links. I had previously visited a few and found good info. I certainly would like to look around further and find an older model with the tooling, but after looking for a few months have found nothing locally that is not monstrously sized and in the $3000 to $6000 range.

I just got back from looking at a 7x 12 model similar or exactly like the Cummins model mentioned. It seems quite small in person. Maybe I underestimated my future requirements.

Tomorrow I am going to look at a gear head lathe measuring 10" swing with a 18" bed. It is on sale for $999.00 reduced from $1299. It has a 5" three jaw chuck.


Heres the link : http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?&NETID=0632170916071554187&NTITEM=B2227L

Any Thoughts??????????

[jimmycrackcorn]

what do you guys think of sherline ?

[ColdDuckTime]

That stuff is all pretty darned cool. I'm tempted to get something like that myself just to learn about it...and then invent projects once I know the limitations/possibilities.

One thing that's a bummer (to me) about this as a hobby is just the sheer weight and bulk of this stuff. I went with a friend to 'help' buy a used lathe + extra stuff for $500 (a Hardinge) and felt a bit of tool lust...but damn...you're getting into hobbies where a forklift is required to move the equipment.

[PAToyota]

what do you guys think of sherline ?

My father has a Sherline lathe and mill and I've been impressed with what he has been able to do with it - also what he has shown me what others are doing with them on the Sherline discussion forum.

But for automotive type projects I'd have to say that it is a bit small - even for a small lathe. I have an old Craftsman like JimVannoy and Wilbilt mention. I'd say that the Sherline is likely more precise than mine, but mine does what I need of it and has that bit more capacity needed to do larger items.

[Danglerb]

I wouldn't think of buying a cheap new lathe. Look harder or slightly less local and I am sure you will find a nice old lathe for little or nothing.

[djjack]

Has anyone used equipment from www.knuth-usa.com

They have some benchtop stuff that seems like a good deal if the quality is there.

As far as the Sherline stuff goes I use a their lathe and mill all the time. The Sherline stuff is great when the material is soft and well behaved. I think the biggest problem with them is capacity.

[mhoffm911]

I have sold many lathes and "shopsmiths" over the years at auction. I recommend you check out the auction ads in your area and see what comes up. A couple of the shopsmiths that I have sold have been like new.

[Detroit Diesel Man]

Another thought may be a 3in1 Lathe,Mill,Drill unit..depending on what you plan to do..it all boils down to what are you going to be turning...I wouldnt call the offshore benchtop lathes "cheap"..they work fine and even better with some tweaking..witch when you tweak and upgrade teaches you something new each time..the links I posted earlier are excellent links and show what a little patience and some thought you can do an amazing amount of work on a small lathe...if you have the money for something bigger great..or if you have the need for something bigger then get it..for me the small 7x12 was what I could afford..and I've modified and tweaked it and turned everything from bushings and collars for skid loaders from brass for the bushings and steel for the pins to drivers from 1018CRS and some more polished holders/parts from Stainless,Aluminum..I guess it bugs me a bit when people immediately say these benchtop lathes are "cheap" when they have no idea what they are capable of..make a list of what you plan on turning and the capacity you'll need...maybe go with a small benchtop lathe for now..learn the ins and outs of it and research projects and build your skill level..then move up to something more substantial...the problem with buying a larger used "Old Iron" lathe is you have to know how they work inside and out..alot of them arent complete..no tooling gears missing for turning threads etc..more time working on an older lathe just to be able to do a simple turning than its worth...hate to see you spend hard earned money on a big lathe only to have it collect dust in the corner in 6 months..just some more of my 2 cents on the subject..good luck with your decision.

DDM

[Uncle Buck]

Or instead of buying anything, see if you can enroll in a night class at the local vo-tech. A couple hundred dollars will pay for a basic education in turning, boring, facing, and single point threading. Usually such classes also will teach you how to hand grind a drill bit and a cutting bit for the lathe. Additional things you might also learn could be a bit about manual vertical Bridgeport type milling machines, cut off saws and who knows what else! Occasionally just being in such a class will put a guy in the right place, at the right time to buy a lathe. During such a class you could also have the instructor perhaps educate you in how to access the condition of a used lathe, IE. what should you look for!

After some thought, this is probably the smartest thing to do instead of running out and buying anything, This way, when you would go to buy a machine you would already have a good basic knowledge of what your needs are, and what you want to do!

[eschoendorff]

Or instead of buying anything, see if you can enroll in a night class at the local vo-tech. A couple hundred dollars will pay for a basic education in turning, boring, facing, and single point threading. Usually such classes also will teach you how to hand grind a drill bit and a cutting bit for the lathe. Additional things you might also learn could be a bit about manual vertical Bridgeport type milling machines, cut off saws and who knows what else! Occasionally just being in such a class will put a guy in the right place, at the right time to buy a lathe. During such a class you could also have the instructor perhaps educate you in how to access the condition of a used lathe, IE. what should you look for!

After some thought, this is probably the smartest thing to do instead of running out and buying anything, This way, when you would go to buy a machine you would already have a good basic knowledge of what your needs are, and what you want to do!

I second this motion. I am taking a class (not in industrial arts though) at a community college and the quality of the instruction is A+ and very affordable.

[dxdexter]

Or instead of buying anything, see if you can enroll in a night class at the local vo-tech. A couple hundred dollars will pay for a basic education in turning, boring, facing, and single point threading. Usually such classes also will teach you how to hand grind a drill bit and a cutting bit for the lathe. Additional things you might also learn could be a bit about manual vertical Bridgeport type milling machines, cut off saws and who knows what else! Occasionally just being in such a class will put a guy in the right place, at the right time to buy a lathe. During such a class you could also have the instructor perhaps educate you in how to access the condition of a used lathe, IE. what should you look for!

After some thought, this is probably the smartest thing to do instead of running out and buying anything, This way, when you would go to buy a machine you would already have a good basic knowledge of what your needs are, and what you want to do!

All advice is appreciated.

Fortunately for me ,my brother has been a machinist for almost 20 years. Most of his experience in the last decade has been with CNC machining with a major aircraft engine manufacturer , but I'm sure he can show me the ropes. He has already loaned me his text books from vocational school.
Otherwise that is a great idea.

I think I will certainly learn more about what is available before jumping in, but I still am going to go look at the 10"x 18" lathe to see its quality. With the exception of this forum , I have read good things about these small lathes, Chinese or not.

When I do decide on a lathe I will take all advice seriously. I do however have a budget and can't afford an arm and a leg for full sized machines and I don't hold out much hope of finding one for next to nothing.

[Uncle Buck]

I have been operating on a shoestring for longer than I would care to describe, but I would say this; you can find a decent loaded machine for $ 1000.00, they are still out there. I bought mine at auction a few years back and this is what that amount of money bought me.

(1) 1972 vintage Atlas 12" x 42" bed QC lathe, timken taper bearings in head, motor wired for revering. The following tooling came with my machine. Steady rest, Follower rest, 3 &4 jaw chucks, faceplate, several dead centers and a live center, milling attachment, full set of metric change gears, all basic tool holders, straight, left, right, parting, knurling, boring bar, several jacobs chucks mounted on morse tapers for use in the tail stock, a collet closer and a few collets, some cutter bits and a several other bits and pieces. Many of the accessories came in the original boxes and showed little or no use. The original Atlas manual also came with the machine as well as gobs of the original paperwork for all the accessories to include the motor. The lathe was mounted to a substantial wood bench with legs larger than 4" x 4" lumber.

Since I purchased the machine I have upgraded my tool post to a Phase II import clone of the ALORIS type (huge improvement) and added an Albrecht chuck mounted on a Morse taper for tail stock use. I plan on adding a scissors type knurling attachment as these small machines will not tolerate the use of a conventional knurling tool without damaging cross slide nuts at the compound. Anyway, my Atlas is tight, shows very little wear and is probably all the machine I will ever need. I think I did well for my money; and I know there are more out there for the right person.

[dxdexter]

I have been operating on a shoestring for longer than I would care to describe, but I would say this; you can find a decent loaded machine for $ 1000.00, they are still out there. I bought mine at auction a few years back and this is what that amount of money bought me.

(1) 1972 vintage Atlas 12" x 42" bed QC lathe, timken taper bearings in head, motor wired for revering. The following tooling came with my machine. Steady rest, Follower rest, 3 &4 jaw chucks, faceplate, several dead centers and a live center, milling attachment, full set of metric change gears, all basic tool holders, straight, left, right, parting, knurling, boring bar, several jacobs chucks mounted on morse tapers for use in the tail stock, a collet closer and a few collets, some cutter bits and a several other bits and pieces. Many of the accessories came in the original boxes and showed little or no use. The original Atlas manual also came with the machine as well as gobs of the original paperwork for all the accessories to include the motor. The lathe was mounted to a substantial wood bench with legs larger than 4" x 4" lumber.

Since I purchased the machine I have upgraded my tool post to a Phase II import clone of the ALORIS type (huge improvement) and added an Albrecht chuck mounted on a Morse taper for tail stock use. Anyway, my Atlas is tight, shows very little wear and is probably all the machine I will ever need. I think I did well for my money; and I know there are more out there for the right person.

There are some government surplus auctions coming up soon. Maybe I will luck out and pick up something along those lines.
What kind of foot print do these or similar machines occupy.

Do you have any pictures?

[Uncle Buck]

There are some government surplus auctions coming up soon. Maybe I will luck out and pick up something along those lines.
What kind of foot print do these or similar machines occupy.

On a factory stand you could expect about 24" of depth approximately 4' height at headstock and 4-5' for length. Since my motor sets to the side instead of hanging off the back of the machine and my bench was home made my bench is about 3' deep x 6' overall length, height at headstock 36-40". That is a good place to start as well as school auctions if there are still any left at schools. I would closely watch my local auctions, classifieds, and craigslist. Do not forget used equipment dealers in your area. For example here in Kansas I know a dealer in Wichita that caters to home shop type guys and as such always keeps a few old tool room lathes in stock. I would also be looking at the Practical Machinist and Chaski boards as well. Good luck, and please be patient you will be rewarded for that in the end! :beer:

I wish I did have a digital camera to take pictures of my shop to post on this board. I am very proud of my tools & equipment and wish others could see my little pile of toys. No, no pictures My garage/shop is all crammed into a 24' x 24' brick garage circa 1929 I have way to many tools in way to little a space, but perhaps that will change someday, I hope it does because I do not part company with tools very well, unless I am up-grading and even then I find it difficult to part company with a tool or machine. It is a sickness, been that way most of my life with tools!

[MikeN]

I've been eyeing a HAAS TL-2 (http://www.haascnc.com/details_LATHE.asp?ID=319) :)

[dxdexter]

I've been eyeing a HAAS TL-2 (http://www.haascnc.com/details_LATHE.asp?ID=319) :)

Definitely outside my budgetary constraints The cheapest one is $29.000 YIKES!!!!!

[Uncle Buck]

I've been eyeing a HAAS TL-2 (http://www.haascnc.com/details_LATHE.asp?ID=319) :)

My hat is doffed to you, I will not live long enough to have the skills do anything more than be a dummy button punching operator on something like that.

I know my limitations and they are conventional equipment only!:spit:

[MXtras]

The forum of all forums for machinery of all sorts is www.cnczone.com Drop in and search for Busy Bee - this little lathe has some very good reviews from what I recall. Or go straight to the Mini Lathe section here - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165

I own a Harbor Freight 9X20 and as much as I hate to say it - it is pretty impressive. I bought it to perform a single operation on small pins and had planned to automate it, but I haven't yet. I would prefer a larger more capable machine, but the need doesn't justify the cost at the moment.

There is a ton of info on www.practicalmachinist.com also but this particular forum uses software that was apparently invented prior to the advent of the computer....

Scott

[66RICH]

Here's a pic of my Atlas QC54, very similar to
Uncle Buck's. I found this locally for $250, and
will have a grand in it with tooling, and repairs.
I also added a Aloris style tool post (love it!), and
went thru everything in the rebuild. I made a chip
pan, and back splash for it.

I scoured E-bay, and want adds locally. Best advice is
ask everyone you know if they know someone with a
lathe! Sooner or later you will get a lead, that's how I
found mine. I learned a ton just rebuilding it, and it
does everything I need.

Rich (still looking for a mill!)

[dxdexter]

Here's a pic of my Atlas QC54, very similar to
Uncle Buck's. I found this locally for $250, and
will have a grand in it with tooling, and repairs.
I also added a Aloris style tool post (love it!), and
went thru everything in the rebuild. I made a chip
pan, and back splash for it.


Rich (still looking for a mill!)

Thats an awesome price for that unit. I see you are looking for a mill, since I started all this research I have found quite a few articles on using the lathe as a mill. Have you ever tried this and if so how did it work?

[Uncle Buck]

The Aloris style posts make a night and day difference in ridgidity and getting the most out of these smaller machines. Regardless what brand you end up getting I would highly suggest dumping the old lantern style post and going with one of this type. I got mine fron Enco for Christmas and I think the cost to my door was something around $130.00. That was for a BXA series which is a bit larger than the AXA, but with the BXA you can later fit a sissors type knurling tool to it whereas you cannot with the AXA. The old conventional knurling tools will work fine on a heavier machine such as a South Bend, but they are murder to the Atlas/Craftsman lathes as I stated earlier.

The great part of the Atlas/Craftsman machines is there are tons of parts on flea bay every day. Logan machines are still supported by Scott Logan son of the founder I think. Any of these smaller machines can easily be rebuil from end to end if you are patient enough. Nothing difficult here. The lucky guys wind up with a Southbend or Clausing ie Old Car Guy!

Something else that may be of importance to you, at least it is for some guys; is the size of the bore through the spindle in the headtock. Smaller sizes limit the diameter of material that will pass entirely through the headstock. Not counting the overall ridgidity of the machine and pot metal gears that would likely be one of the top three downfalls of the Atlas? Craftsman machines. It has not had any impact on anything I have worked with so far, but it is considered a hindrence. If you actually find an Atlas, the later and better earlier models were equipped with Timken bearings in the headstock, the more economy priced utility machines had babbit and shims in the headstock. I would avoid the babbit versions if you can.

[dxdexter]

The forum of all forums for machinery of all sorts is www.cnczone.com Drop in and search for Busy Bee - this little lathe has some very good reviews from what I recall. Or go straight to the Mini Lathe section here - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=165

I own a Harbor Freight 9X20 and as much as I hate to say it - it is pretty impressive. I bought it to perform a single operation on small pins and had planned to automate it, but I haven't yet. I would prefer a larger more capable machine, but the need doesn't justify the cost at the moment.

There is a ton of info on www.practicalmachinist.com also but this particular forum uses software that was apparently invented prior to the advent of the computer....

Scott

Scott,
Thanks for those links, they are great and tons of info on the Busy Bee machine. I went and looked at it and was very impressed. I walked out without buying since I am still digesting all I have read and all the recommendations.
To be honest I'm not that patient when I decide I want something and it was all I could do to leave the store empty handed. As has been suggested, the heavier US machines are the way to go. Now I have to decide how long to wait and continue looking. I have a few jobs lined up that I could use it on right away. Oh well I guess the local machine shop will get some more business.

[66RICH]

Dex:
No I haven't tried to use it like a mill. There are
milling attachments showing up on E-bay all the
time for the Atlas. Here's a link to a small knee
mill I would like to pick up. A little steep, but a
very good example.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Clausing-8530-Vertical-Mill_W0QQitemZ110168821307QQihZ001QQcategoryZ12584 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Buck:
Mine is a PhaseII 100 series from Enco with the push
type knurler. This will do for alum, maybe I can come
up with a work around to adapt the scissors. Mine
also has the Timken bearings (circa 63). Mine was
missing the back gears, tail stock, and steady which
I picked up off E-bay.

Rich

[Uncle Buck]

Dex:
No I haven't tried to use it like a mill. There are
milling attachments showing up on E-bay all the
time for the Atlas. Here's a link to a small knee
mill I would like to pick up. A little steep, but a
very good example.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Clausing-8530-Vertical-Mill_W0QQitemZ110168821307QQihZ001QQcategoryZ12584 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Buck:
Mine is a PhaseII 100 series from Enco with the push
type knurler. This will do for alum, maybe I can come
up with a work around to adapt the scissors. Mine
also has the Timken bearings (circa 63). Mine was
missing the back gears, tail stock, and steady which
I picked up off E-bay.

Rich

Rich, I would like to have one of those milling machines too. Currently the only mill I have is a small Atlas Horizontal job. very limited size. I was going to buy a 100 series just like you did before the instructor in my night school shop class pointed out that a 200 would not be too big for the machine, plus the scissors type knurler could be added later; I am now glad that he pointed this out! I did knurl with my lantern style post tool once on my Atlas, I thought It was far too demanding for my machine, it felt like I was actually pushing the machine too far as opposed to the South Bend heavy 10 I used in night class, a walk in the park with that old girl!

I have never used my milling attachment on my machine, In fact I do not think it has ever been used, it was in the box with all the original paperwork when I got it. I have done alot of reading on the subject though. Most everything I have ever read indicated that that you will be very limited in what you can mill which is really a given, and that it is sort of a PITA to try and mill that way. But, if it is all you have it would beat nothing!

[66RICH]

Buck:
I agree, the milling attachments are too limited,
and setup time is a pain. seperate machines are
the best way to go, I'm willing to wait for a deal
to come up. I try to make every Auction near here!
I just picked up an old 24" Rockwell scroll saw at
a garage sale, works great! Heavy old cast iron unit,
with a foot pedal.

Wish I would of known about the 200 series, didn't
think they would fit. I'm looking to pick up a back
rest which may may it possible to use the fixed knurler.

Get a cheap camera, and post some pics of your shop!
I'll try to get some up of mine this week. Not much,
but it's mine!

Rich

[dxdexter]

I found this Myford ML7. It appears in relatively good condition except for the compound is frozen. The elderly gentleman wants $1500 for it, but I could possibly get it for less if I made an offer.

The bed and lead screw have little or no wear and it has a quick change gear box for the threading/feed rate. Research suggests it was built after 1954 since that is when the gear boxes were available.

Does any one have any thoughts on its worth or the lathe in general? it didn't see a lot of tooling, but there is a small three jaw chuck as well as the 4 jaw.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/PA230025.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/PA230026.jpg

[jimvannoy]

If there is not much tooling and it has a part frozen I would not go over $1000.00 actually probably a good bit less than that.

[dxdexter]

If there is not much tooling and it has a part frozen I would not go over $1000.00 actually probably a good bit less than that.

I was contemplating $1000. They actually still sell brand new similar models and beleive it or not they are $18000 in Canada. Link: http://www.bellmachineryltd.com/new_myford7b.htm

This one is not a Super 7 model although I'm not sure of the difference.

[SteveL]

I've got a 24" bed Sherline lathe and their milling machine with a bunch of accessories. They are very good quality, but a little on the small side for automotive stuff. If I had it to do over again, I would probably be patient and find something bigger and used. It wouldn't be that much more and would be much better suited for what you want to do. My set up would probably be in the $2000 range now new. I bought all of this back in '94 and spent around $1500 for everything.

[Uncle Buck]

The Myford is a quality machine, and one with quite a following in England, & I guess Canada. I think they have a reputation as a quality machine, more so than the Atlas machines that a few of us here have. Read about it right here, http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford-ml7/index.html I think testing the guy at a thousand without a great deal of tooling and a frozen compound is a very good idea. I think you will be able to find any parts you might need for it, and if he won't bite a a grand you can always add a bit more or walk on the deal! Good Call.

[dxdexter]

I know this is an old thread, but I thought I'd update my lathe search. I took the majority of advice and bought an quality older lathe and ended up purchasing the English Myford. Turns out it is from 1952. It appeared to be in pretty rough shape so I completely tore it apart, cleaned and repainted it.

As it turns out the lathe was in better shape than I thought and with the exception of a motor, required no new parts. It also included many extras which were scattered throughout the old saw mill from where it was purchased.I had to look pretty hard to find all related equipment. I purchased a low priced stand at "Busy Bee" and fabricated the mounts from HSS.

It absolutely works great. Thanks for the advice.

Here are some photos.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/MyfordPictures20071028023.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/MyfordPictures20071028011.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myford/MyfordLathe004.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myford/MyfordLathe002.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myford/MyfordLathe001.jpg

[MXtras]

WOW! Very nice rebuild!

Scott

[gotmud13613]

Damn, That looks great, Excellent job :thumbup:

[george4]

Very nice. How did you handle rust removal?

[Uncle Buck]

Very well done indeed, a much better quality machine than my Atlas. I think you did great for tooling as well; now if you could just fit it with an Aloris type toolpost and holder you would be flyin. Looking at the pics it does not appear as though the compound would lend itself to the design of an Aloris type post though, to bad. Lathe looks brand new though, smashing job cleaning er up.

BTW, REPAINT THE DRUMSWITCH! :bounce: It sticks out like a sore thumb! :spit:

[PAToyota]

Very nice rebuild!

[goodfellow]

I struggled with that same question many years ago. I wanted a lathe and mill that was adequate for automotive work. The hobby lathes (sherline, and the 7x10 or 7x12 minis) were not up to the task. I must have spent a year researching this issue and finally came to the following conclusions

1) seperate machines are preferred over the 3in1 types because of rigidity
and time issues with respect to repeated teardown between milling and lathe operations

2) a 9x20 lathe is the minimum for automotive and motorcycle work, yet most folks I spoke with who started with the 9x20's eventually traded them in for 12x36 or larger machines. They outgrew the 9x20s real fast

3) Older American iron is cheap to get, but VERY expensive to ship over long distances, and to maintain. Parts are hard to find and outrageously expensive.

4) For most automotive work, a heavy duty mill/drill is adequate. A full sized BP mill is a nice luxury, but it needs a lot of space.

5) No matter what you buy, plan to spend at LEAST twice as much on tooling as you did for the machine itself.


In the end, I was severely constrained by space and knowing full well the limitations, I opted for a large 3in1 machine with 31" between centers. It was adequate for machining larger automotive parts, but was marginal as a mill, yet functioned well as a lathe. When I moved to a larger house and shop I purchased a greared head mill/drill to make up for the shortcomings of the 3in1 with regard to milling capability.

Since my hobby is cars and not machining, I have limitations. I've done most all "simple" machine work myself, but I farm complex stuff (like three angle valve jobs) out to a local shop.

[johnny1290]

Wow, that is beautiful!!

[Sack]

you probably learned more during your rebuild than I have in the 2 years of me owning one.

[katit]

Since my hobby is cars and not machining, I have limitations. I've done most all "simple" machine work myself, but I farm complex stuff (like three angle valve jobs) out to a local shop.

What kind of automotive stuff you do? Could you give examples?

I am too constantly thinking about getting lathe or better yet 3 in 1. But I don't want to machine anything for cars. I want to make tools.

I constantly have a need in same kind of seal tool or bushing tool. All those cost stupid money for BMW and do not require lot of precision. 70mm or so is probably maximum diameter. I think making just set of tools for rear bushings will pay for whole machine.

[goodfellow]

What kind of automotive stuff you do? Could you give examples?

I am too constantly thinking about getting lathe or better yet 3 in 1. But I don't want to machine anything for cars. I want to make tools.

I constantly have a need in same kind of seal tool or bushing tool. All those cost stupid money for BMW and do not require lot of precision. 70mm or so is probably maximum diameter. I think making just set of tools for rear bushings will pay for whole machine.

Katit, your time is money. If you enjoy making tools, then the payoff is worth it. However, if your going to spend 20 hours making a tool for your car and that tool could have been purchased for $50, then it's a matter of priorities. I'd prefer to work on the car rather than making a tool for doing work on the car.

That said, I work on motorcycles and cars. My machining for the bikes has included pegs, risers, spacers, full length offset brackets, and decking cylinder heads. For the cars I've machined disks, drums, flywheels, rocker bosses, valve guides, and steering linkage parts; to name a few. The biggest part I ever had on the 3in1 was an 73 MGB cyliner head that I decked with a fly cutter.

I haven't made many large shop tools, but I've made some specialty tools when I was in dire need (a camshaft alignment tool for a Jag 4.2 engine comes to mind). They often weren't pretty, but they worked well.

[katit]

I'm talking about stuff like that:
http://www.technictool.com/rear-axle-2.htm
Tools on left side - $450

I like to work on cars, this is my hobby. But I hate to spend crazy amounts of $$ on stupid things like that. It's not time/mone deal. I spend time anyway and machining simple thing will be part of a hobby. I like it better then getting off work to drop drawings to shop. Sometimes machining plastic tube plug to push that seal will be very important. Machining proper guides for hydraulic press (to press bushing in/out)

What you did is very cool. I would send those job to shop :)

[OldCarGuy]

You’re far better off fixing up an older heavy piece of iron than purchasing a new cheapie import.

Dxdexter, besides making a wise decision to purchase an older machine, you made it look like new. I’m sure it will give you years of good service and can be passed on to future generations. And most likely it’ll hold its’ value as there will always be demand for a smaller lathe like that for home use. Additionally I’m sure you’ll find things around the house to repair or make that you never dreamed of before.

Side note: You may want to keep your dial calipers somewhere higher than on the bedpan. Small chips and oil will mess up the fine rack and pinion gears.

[dxdexter]

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the compliments.

The lathe will swing 7" and 10"in the gap and is 20" between centers.

Very nice. How did you handle rust removal?

The lathe was stripped down (except the gearbox) into each individual piece. The bed and headstock were high pressure washed , then sanded and the other parts were de-greased in my parts cleaner. Every bolt and exposed metal part was wire brushed. The chucks were brightened with 800 grit emery cloth and a 3M Scotch Bright pad.

In order to remove the rust from the bed ways, I used naval jelly and steel wool followed by a 3M Scotch Bright pad. There was so little wear that the original machining marks are mostly still visible.

You’re far better off fixing up an older heavy piece of iron than purchasing a new cheapie import.

Dxdexter, besides making a wise decision to purchase an older machine, you made it look like new. I’m sure it will give you years of good service and can be passed on to future generations. And most likely it’ll hold its’ value as there will always be demand for a smaller lathe like that for home use. Additionally I’m sure you’ll find things around the house to repair or make that you never dreamed of before.

Side note: You may want to keep your dial calipers somewhere higher than on the bedpan. Small chips and oil will mess up the fine rack and pinion gears.

The old lathe has its quirks, like filling the oil reservoirs and the odd way to switch the backgear, but I enjoy using it just because of them. I can allready get more than what I paid back, and more if I wanted, But i think I'll be keeping it for awhile.

I learned not to leave the calipers under the lathe the hard way. I had to clean chips from them a few times. Novice mistake and lesson learned.


I think you did great for tooling as well; now if you could just fit it with an Aloris type toolpost and holder you would be flyin. Looking at the pics it does not appear as though the compound would lend itself to the design of an Aloris type post though, to bad.
BTW, REPAINT THE DRUMSWITCH! :bounce: It sticks out like a sore thumb! :spit:

I was hesitant about showing the photos with the unpainted switch. I never did get around to doing it.:dunno:

I don't know anything about Aloris tool posts. The machine came with two types of toolposts. One is a patented Myford design using a "special quick setting" tool clamp and Myford tools. The Myford tools (lathe included a 14 pc set) are specially designed to rock in a holder in order to adjust the height. The bolt is 1/2" and protrudes 2 1/2" from the cross slide.

I also made a chip (swarf) collection tray from a baking tray and some sheet metal. It makes cleanup much easier and I also placed one to collect the oil from the "constant loss" bearings and oilers.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myford003.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myford004.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myford002.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myford001.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/myfordtray.jpg

[Uncle Buck]

I was kidding about the drum switch. Now that you have posted the additional pictures with the Myford toolpost stripped from the compound I see that it looks as though it would accept an Aloris or chi-com Phase II knockoff which is what I have, although you would likely have to replace the toolpost bolt shown in the picture with one a bit longer. OldCarGuy and others would confirm that the Aloris style toolpost would be a very nice addition to your machine.

If you look into it there are two types, the cheaper is called a piston type and the more expensive is a wedge type. Some guys dispise the piston type and insist nothing but a wedge type will do; however the wedge is considerably higher in cost than a piston so unless you have money fallin out yer pockets I would suggest going with a piston. I bought a Phase II brand piston toolpost from Enco tool about a year ago (another dispised company) delivere to my door for $130.00 I have found that it has performed to my expectations since then. Given the 7" swing of the Myford a 100 series, or AXA Aloris type would likely work just fine for your application. Also the 100/AXA size costs a bit less than the 200/BXA size I purchased.

If you never replace the toolpost and simply use your old rocker you still have a mighty fine looking machine in my opinion.

[66RICH]

Dex:
Great job!!! Look's sweet!
Rich

[l_bilyk]

Since we're on the subject, what do you guys think this atlas is worth?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/10-x-24-Atlas-engine-lathe_W0QQitemZ260211839476QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1042 41QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[eschoendorff]

Since we're on the subject, what do you guys think this atlas is worth?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/10-x-24-Atlas-engine-lathe_W0QQitemZ260211839476QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1042 41QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

About $1400.00 :bounce:

[l_bilyk]

Well apparently not since no one has put a bid in.

[Uncle Buck]

Since we're on the subject, what do you guys think this atlas is worth?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/10-x-24-Atlas-engine-lathe_W0QQitemZ260211839476QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1042 41QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Certainly not what is listed as a buy it now price. First it has no quick change gearbox so you can lop off about $500.00 right there. Second he says heavily tooled but fails to list what that consists of, all that I see on the machine is one chuck that looks to be more chuck than that machine needs in my opinion and an oversize taper mounted drill chuck for tailstock drilling additionally no toolpost appears in the photo at all. I noticed the black box mounted on the table in front of the machine; I would surmise that is the reversing lever for the motor.

To me that machine appears to have done quite a bit of work in it's time. I think it has timken taper bearings in the headstock and I think it would likely be from the 1970's to very early 80's at the latest. Of the Atlas machines out there this would be one of the heavier ones with the thicker bed ways. You must always remember for that kind of money there are many other machines with nice features such as v ways and heavier steel gears as opposed to the pot metal gears found in the Atlas. Some of those brands would include Logan/Montgomery Ward, South-Bend, and Sheldon to name a few. All of these machines had offerings in the benchtop or toolroom size most with single phase motors and sized well for the home machinist.

It sounds like I am bashing the Atlas however I am being realistic, in fact my machine is a Craftsman/Atlas that looks identical to that machine in all but a few respects. My machine has a quick change box, was in fact heavily equipped and did not look nearly as used as this machine when I bought mine at auction for $1000.00 about 10yrs back. To me that is no more than 5-6 hundred at the outside as pictured. If the heavy tooling referred to in the description were displayed, perhaps $900.00 at the outside and in fact that estimate might be $100-$150 or so too high!

[dxdexter]

Since we're on the subject, what do you guys think this atlas is worth?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/10-x-24-Atlas-engine-lathe_W0QQitemZ260211839476QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1042 41QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't know anything about them, but I found this on the web. It may help.

Link: http://pico-systems.com/atlas.html

[Uncle Buck]

I don't know anything about them, but I found this on the web. It may help.

Link: http://pico-systems.com/atlas.html

This guy makes some good points that I would agree with, however he did paint a worse than grim picture of the machine to begin with. In fact if I knew nothing of these machines I would have run screaming for the door before I even finished the article.

I know the machine has it's weaknesses as I pointed out above however I do not believe these machines to be quite as grim as this fellow portrays. First, it is an Atlas so yes I concede it is not a heavy machine. Second, I would agree to stick to those models with timken bearings as opposed to Babbit. Third, it sounds as though he bought a machine with some very important components and tooling missing. Fouth, he bought a machine that had been used to turn wood! I would indeed run from such a machine. Fifth, he crashed it, then nearly dropped a Bridgy on it! Sixth, he is quite right that a change in toolposts makes a world of difference on this machines performance.

An Atlas is what it is, lighter duty than other brands of comperable size. Not at all a bad machine if not dogged out when you buy it. Also not bad if you can get into it heavily tooled for fair money. As far as parts go you can find a vast number of parts for these machines both used (ebay) and new or otherwise used on the web and elsewhere, there are an abundance of opportunities available and plenty of product support out there for the Atlas/Craftsman machines. Also these machines are capable of doing good work and holding tolerances well enough for most applications. Simply put if you do not push these machines beyond their limitations you would do fine.
If you are carefull about the condition of the machine you buy, you would still be miles ahead of the import counterpart in my opinion. If you can find one of the brands I listed in my post above for the same money as an Atlas or not much more by all means pick the more substantial machine, but in the absence of that if you encounter a decent well tooled used Atlas for good money and you think it would do to get you started don't be afraid to take a chance on it. The key as with anything else is study the topic before throwing good money at it!. :thumbup:

[eschoendorff]

Well apparently not since no one has put a bid in.

Nah... I'm just being a smartass. :lol_hitti

[BadBloodRacing]

TSC sells a small metal lathe that I've looked at several time, does anyone have any experiance with this model?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_44134_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1

[dxdexter]

TSC sells a small metal lathe that I've looked at several time, does anyone have any experiance with this model?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_44134_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1

That sure resembles the Cummins model from post #6 by "Detroit Diesel Man". You may want to contact him or perhaps he could comment. Its probably the same one re-badged by another distributer.

[beardking]

Sorry if I'm stepping on any toes here, and feel free to let me know that I am, but I was wondering if any of you that have your mini-lathes would be interested in making a couple of small (1 1/2" L x 1 1/2" Diam) parts out of aluminum for a person. If so, I might be interested. I need something made for my motorcycle.

[rsanter]

Sorry if I'm stepping on any toes here, and feel free to let me know that I am, but I was wondering if any of you that have your mini-lathes would be interested in making a couple of small (1 1/2" L x 1 1/2" Diam) parts out of aluminum for a person. If so, I might be interested. I need something made for my motorcycle.

I have a couple of lathes and often do litle jobs for other people.
email me at RSANTER@aol.com

bob

[beardking]

I have a couple of lathes and often do litle jobs for other people.
email me at RSANTER@aol.com

bob

Email sent. Thanks in advance.

[dxdexter]

The lathe has almost paid for itself already. I am working on my forth paying job and this should take care of the initial cost (not including stand).

This project is an aluminum pulley for a soils testing machine. the machine needed to be modified to operate at a faster speed, so a larger drive pulley was required. The pulley uses an O-ring as the drive belt and was made from 4.5" x 1"long aluminum.



It feels great to operate this old British machine. Hard to believe its 56 years old.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myfordmachiningpulley001.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/dxdexter/Myfordmachiningpulley002.jpg

[eschoendorff]

Dex, that is freakin' cool! :beer: