View Full Version : Are there any "must have" OEM/dealership "shop chemicals"?


diesel research
10-23-2011, 12:33 AM
Obviously that will vary person to person. Stuff I am talking about are sealants, adhesives, solvents, penetrants, etc, that come in a dealer labeled container that you prefer to use over more commecricially available products. Reasons for using them (away from your work place) might be availability, price, strength/power, or?

I hear people talking about GM or Mopar "top end cleaner", GM/Chrysler heat riser penetrant, various asian import rtvs like "hondabond", etc.

So what/if any dealer-only chemicals really are "all that"?

TWX
10-23-2011, 01:05 AM
I like Berryman's B12, but I haven't used it in a long time, and I heard they reformulated it. B-33 chem dip is also useful.

For polishing, I like Wenol.

Vinko
10-23-2011, 01:07 AM
the old BMW gummi pflege rubber conditioner was great for door seals. They stopped making it and I've never felt that the 1Z or Wurth versions were that great. Plus, at least in my area, Wurth stopped offering the old version of it.

diesel research
10-23-2011, 01:33 AM
I like Berryman's B12, but I haven't used it in a long time, and I heard they reformulated it. B-33 chem dip is also useful.

For polishing, I like Wenol.

For this particular topic, I only wanted to identify the "top notch" products that seem to be only available at various dealerships.

There are plenty of B12s, kroils, permatex rtv, loctite, etc, but I wanted to see if any of the dealer chemicals were worth the effort.

For example, Chrysler uses a foaming induction cleaner that supposedly is top notch.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh55/TheJGB3/MCCC.jpg

Some other stuff people swear by
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/twincamtech_2181_180722275



Sometimes they might offer the best, sometimes it is simple relabel with same formulation as more regularly available products, other times it might be inferior.

Stick
10-23-2011, 01:55 AM
Cat Green Cement - I haven't found a good substitute for it yet, and Cat has discontinued it.

Cat O-ring assembly lube - great for general O-ring installation, not nearly as slimy as KY and not sticky like other lubes

GM engine assembly adhesive - both the light and dark grey are among the best RTV silicone I've used. Real thick and set up damn near instantly, no waiting for cure time.

GM top engine cleaner - not the "new" stuff, the stuff they were still making around five or six years ago. The replacement still works, just not as good as the old stuff.

GM Throttle body and choke cleaner - great for removing built up carbon deposits in the throttle body and the rest of the intake tract.

Not OE "must have", but we've found plenty of uses for Marinetex Epoxy for repairing otherwise un-repairable or discontinued parts. It's JB-weld's bigger, stronger, more handsome cousin. ;)

I'm sure there's more, but I'm not at work to check my flammables locker.

Lomotil
10-23-2011, 02:29 AM
Straight acetone.

Dissolves any organic compound. Also a main ingredient in many of the aerosol 'cleaning' sprays available.

:-)

diesel research
10-23-2011, 03:25 AM
GM top engine cleaner - not the "new" stuff, the stuff they were still making around five or six years ago. The replacement still works, just not as good as the old stuff.


I was reading that the new stuff can only be ingested through a rail attachment canister, not an aerosol. Is that correct?

Along with that reading, I found a GM TSB recommending rail injection cleaning, thus dispelling the myths none of the oems have recommended it.

All this started between a recent article mentioning "ford citrus metal cleaner" and a realization we mostly use generic chemicals save for sil-glyde, lubriplate, sikaflex, permatex, and pb blaster. The generic bulk non-chlorinated brake cleaner especially sucks.

Of course, at home my selection is mostly limited to whatever you find at walmart or chain parts stores....

Garage5.9
10-23-2011, 05:49 AM
Honda bond and http://www.hondapartsdirect.com/images/products/preview/08700-9201.png ftw! Only reason is because i can get it cheap

diesel research
10-23-2011, 05:53 AM
Ok, so if you had to pay regular retail price, would you still get the hondabond? Or?

Garage5.9
10-23-2011, 06:00 AM
Ok, so if you had to pay regular retail price, would you still get the hondabond? Or?

probably not , regular permatex never let me down

Moose-LandTran
10-23-2011, 06:15 AM
I like Normfest red high-temp silicone, best stuff i've used. And Pagid brake cleaner, much better than anything else on the market.

They might be Europe-only though.

VW make an excellent green sealant for use in engines and gearboxes where normal silicone can't be used.

diesel research
10-23-2011, 08:25 AM
I like Normfest red high-temp silicone, best stuff i've used. And Pagid brake cleaner, much better than anything else on the market.

They might be Europe-only though.
Those don't sound like oem dealership companies. :spit:


VW make an excellent green sealant for use in engines and gearboxes where normal silicone can't be used.
This is the kind of recommendations I am looking for.

Usually I would never step foot in an oe parts department for chemicals, but sometimes (like stick's mention of CAT adhesive) a certain oe has good stuff.


Don't worry, we can talk "non dealer-only" flammable cabinet stuff in a different thread. :bounce:

cjer
10-23-2011, 08:35 AM
Motorcraft Brake Lube and Dielectric Grease (same tube), best I've used for greasing brake pins.

diesel research
10-23-2011, 08:45 AM
Motorcraft Brake Lube and Dielectric Grease (same tube), best I've used for greasing brake pins.

This really has me wondering. We get sil-glyde oring lube in tiny little tubes. People like to slather it all over as a safety precaution on injectors (I am talking entire injector body covered) So we never have any when it is actually needed. One day I noticed all these huge tubes (probably 6oz or better) of dielectric grease that were unused, and was half tempted to use it on some o-rings and for some hose I was assembling. I decided not to since I wasn't sure, but woulda swore both were silicone and deemed safe on rubber.

Now I am getting myself off topic. :bounce:

93sr20det
10-23-2011, 09:11 AM
I got some of the mopar throttle body cleaner and used it on my minivan. Throttle body looked almost new when I was done and it was cheap at the dealer. I am also a fan of Nissan matic-d atf fluid.

I also stopped at the local gm dealer to get some a/c oil for an alero and they gave me some Barry grant stuff that worked pretty well. Compressor was a lot quieter after I flushed and refilled it.

And finally Cat makes some wonderful enamel spray paint that goes on smooth and really holds up well. I have used it extensively on my 260z and not had any problems with fish eyes or peeling.

srmofo
10-23-2011, 09:22 AM
I use to track down honda-bond for my own civics, especially if I was sealing a manual trans case back together. From what I remember, they reformulated it some time ago though. I havent done any serious overhaul work on any of my civics recently though so Im kinda out of the loop right now.

I also like mopars red rtv when using it near synthetic diff lube.

We use performa chemicals at the shop and they work great. I doubt you can get The trick with any throttle body cleaner is to make sure the engine is warm. If the metal is still cool, the chemical will condense back into large droplets and reduce its effectiveness.looks like some nissan shops are now using performa also.

scbird94
10-23-2011, 09:38 AM
GM "engine assembly adhesive", their gray rtv silicone, is the only silicone i allow in our shop. We used on any make and model, anything from engine work, diff covers, and more.

That being said, the little sample tubes of black silicone that come with fel-pro gasket sets are also an amazing product. I save them up and bring them home. I feel like if a chemical burns your nose like this black silicone does, it must be good stuff. Anybody know if you can buy it in big portions?

six-T-seven
10-23-2011, 09:43 AM
Harbor Freight air fresheners. Give any car that "fresh from mainland-China aroma."

ImportTuner
10-23-2011, 10:27 AM
Honda bond and http://www.hondapartsdirect.com/images/products/preview/08700-9201.png ftw! Only reason is because i can get it cheap

Honda Bond is excellent and not cheap ... where do you get the brake cleaner from Honda cheap?

wafrederick
10-23-2011, 10:48 AM
Same with the pozi additive for rear ends requiring it.You don't need to go to the dealer anymore,most parts store sell it.The Chrysler ATF+4 ATF,Auto Value and Carquest sell it.Was dealer only and no longer dealer only.

Moose-LandTran
10-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Those don't sound like oem dealership companies. :spit:

True, but of all the types i've used, main dealer and otherwise, i think that the Normfest red is the best, by far. It costs me 15 for a dispenser tube thigy, but it's well worth it. You could buy that brake grease from Volvo in a little tiny single-serving tube too. ;)


This is the kind of recommendations I am looking for.

I'll get the part number, it ain't cheap but it's awesome stuff. I was just at work and picked it up, totally forgetting to note the part number.

Fedwrench
10-23-2011, 02:34 PM
Along with that reading, I found a GM TSB recommending rail injection cleaning, thus dispelling the myths none of the oems have recommended it.

was it GM 03-06-04-030 or 04-06-04-051?

The issue with injector cleaning is that the domestic OEMs do NOT recommend injector flushing or cleaning as a "Maintenance only" procedure. All of the OEMs have procedures for injector cleaning when trying to correct a drivibility concern. However, you won't find a factory maintenance schedule that lists injector cleaning or flushing at a specific mileage or time interval.
You will find lots of dealership and independent shops fliers that try to sell you flushing or cleaning everything under the hood at 30k mile intervals.:wtf:
There's no need to routinely flush injectors if you don't have a drivibility concern though.

Back to the thread topic, the best RTV for use in an engine is the GM engine assembly sealant. The best RTV for differential covers is MOPAR black.
The best lubricant for curing suspenion noises is GM Special Lubricant part#12345879, just don't get it on your skin or in your eyes.

diesel research
10-23-2011, 03:02 PM
I'd have to look it up again, yes it was in special cases for drivability concerns.

Didn't realize the argument specified "maintenance intervals"

Fedwrench
10-23-2011, 03:36 PM
I'd have to look it up again, yes it was in special cases for drivability concerns.

Didn't realize the argument specified "maintenance intervals"

There have been several arguments about vehicle flushes so, it's hard to tell. When service providers in outlying areas try to sell me injector flushes for my fleet vehicles, I always ask them what drivability concern they're trying to fix. They usually respond with oh nothing's wrong, the car just has xxx miles on it. I tell them no thanks and usually quote one of the TSBs to them.
that may change with direct injection engines but, time will tell.

Garage5.9
10-23-2011, 04:56 PM
Honda Bond is excellent and not cheap ... where do you get the brake cleaner from Honda cheap?

When i was working at a acura/hyundai dealer. I also used to get hyundai brake clean real cheap buy it by the case

dan1120
10-23-2011, 05:15 PM
When i was working at a acura/hyundai dealer. I also used to get hyundai brake clean real cheap buy it by the case

Hmmm. I used to work with a couple guys that came from a honda dealer and they swore up and down that hondabond was the same exact thing as permatex ultra grey. What do you think? As for brake cleaner, screw it. Whatever is cheapest. Only difference to me is the chlorinated versus non chorinated.

Garage5.9
10-23-2011, 05:39 PM
Hmmm. I used to work with a couple guys that came from a honda dealer and they swore up and down that hondabond was the same exact thing as permatex ultra grey. What do you think? As for brake cleaner, screw it. Whatever is cheapest. Only difference to me is the chlorinated versus non chorinated.

To be honest the only difference i noticed was to me the honda bond seems more tacky and has a different consistency when dry , i think there's a reason why honda reccomends using it when splitting tranny cases etc. I agree with the brake clean thing there is really no difference. The one thing i noticed is the crc brake kleen in red cans smells real bad vs the green , also is chlorinated brake kleen really better ?

imperialman67
10-23-2011, 06:06 PM
I like Berryman's B12, but I haven't used it in a long time, and I heard they reformulated it. B-33 chem dip is also useful.

For polishing, I like Wenol.

X2 on the Wenol ! Made the stainless trim and chrome on my Imperial look like new

blacK20
10-23-2011, 06:09 PM
motorcraft penetrating fluid is a good one.

PrecisionTools
10-23-2011, 06:10 PM
Yamaha's Yamalube carburettor cleaner worked amazingly well, especially if you warmed it up a bit. Watch out for the fumes tho!

Not sure if they make it anymore either. :(

bradleykd
10-23-2011, 06:18 PM
Toyota upholstery cleaner is about the best i've ever seen. It'll take ink off cloth seats in seconds.

BigAl62
10-23-2011, 08:04 PM
Same with the pozi additive for rear ends requiring it.You don't need to go to the dealer anymore,most parts store sell it.The Chrysler ATF+4 ATF,Auto Value and Carquest sell it.Was dealer only and no longer dealer only.

I've been told by a number of rear end re-builder's that the best limited slip additive is Motorcraft (most of them are diehard GM guys!). Also for 03-04 Mustang Cobra trans fluid use GM synchromesh - it works best (a Ford tech told me about this one) and a lot of racing guys swear by Ford heavy duty DOT3 brake fluid (P/N: C6AZ-19542-AA) this was also told to me by a GM guy. It seems that not everyone is brand loyal when there is something better from someone else.

njride
10-23-2011, 10:58 PM
I've been told by a number of rear end re-builder's that the best limited slip additive is Motorcraft (most of them are diehard GM guys!). Also for 03-04 Mustang Cobra trans fluid use GM synchromesh - it works best (a Ford tech told me about this one) and a lot of racing guys swear by Ford heavy duty DOT3 brake fluid (P/N: C6AZ-19542-AA) this was also told to me by a GM guy. It seems that not everyone is brand loyal when there is something better from someone else.

Alot of honda guys like the gm synchromesh as well for the common 3rd gear grinds, I like the honda mtf myself, big difference especially in cold weather.

I also like honda bond but its petty hard for me to say how much better it is than anything else, I use it on my personal stuff so its not like I'm buying a ton of it. I do use it on anything that requires some rtv, not just my cars and it's never not worked well.

dan1120
10-24-2011, 01:07 AM
To be honest the only difference i noticed was to me the honda bond seems more tacky and has a different consistency when dry , i think there's a reason why honda reccomends using it when splitting tranny cases etc. I agree with the brake clean thing there is really no difference. The one thing i noticed is the crc brake kleen in red cans smells real bad vs the green , also is chlorinated brake kleen really better ?

If I remember correctly chlorinated is more harmful to the user but works better. I prefer non chlorinated brake cleaner that smells like rotten ass. The worse it smells the further away I need to be. Kinda lets me know how much im breathing in. :lol_hitti

Garage5.9
10-24-2011, 01:31 AM
If I remember correctly chlorinated is more harmful to the user but works better. I prefer non chlorinated brake cleaner that smells like rotten ass. The worse it smells the further away I need to be. Kinda lets me know how much im breathing in. :lol_hitti

seems like the stronger nastier smelling chemicals are allways better for the job but not us. I never thought the non chlor brake kleen was that bad , infact the chlorinated one smells closer to rotten ass hahaha

diesel research
10-24-2011, 03:06 AM
motorcraft penetrating fluid is a good one.

Is this what is used to remove broken spark plug shells?

mathil
10-24-2011, 11:48 AM
Toyota Black FIPG (Form-In-Place-Gasket)... the stuff is evil. Will seal anything. Black is oil proof, red is gear lube proof.

bill.haigh
10-24-2011, 02:49 PM
Cat Green Cement - I haven't found a good substitute for it yet, and Cat has discontinued it.



And DON'T put Cat Green Glue on both sides of the gasket. If you do, you won't need bolts to hold the part on.

Been there, had to beat the h#ll out of someone else's valve covers because they did that.

BILL

joeswamp
10-24-2011, 05:05 PM
Hmmm. I used to work with a couple guys that came from a honda dealer and they swore up and down that hondabond was the same exact thing as permatex ultra grey. What do you think? As for brake cleaner, screw it. Whatever is cheapest. Only difference to me is the chlorinated versus non chorinated.

I don't think hondabond is made by Permatex. Just about all the Hondabond/Yamabond/Suzukibond/Japanabond stuff is made by ThreeBond, which is a Japanese competitor to Permatex. They make _really_ good stuff, which generally costs more than the Permatex equivalent but works much better in my experience.

tylers88
10-24-2011, 06:24 PM
AC Delco foaming glass cleaner, works great, I use to get it free when I work at a Chevy dealership
GM Superlube or Mopar penetrating oil, both work better than PB Blaster and I got those free when I worked at the Chevy dealer and when I worked at the Toyota/Dodge dealer before Chevy.

For brake clean I perfer 3M, seems to work the best for me

Jack Olsen
10-24-2011, 06:49 PM
Toyota Black FIPG (Form-In-Place-Gasket)... the stuff is evil. Will seal anything. Black is oil proof, red is gear lube proof.
+1 on that. I may never own a Toyota, but I'll always have a tube of this stuff on hand -- it works miracles.

Jeeper
10-24-2011, 06:50 PM
Is this what is used to remove broken spark plug shells?

For the F150 issue you use motorcraft carb cleaner.

Jeeper
10-24-2011, 06:56 PM
If you set up gears then GM Gear Marking compound. I have heard many non-GM dealers use it. p/n 1052351

http://completeoffroad.com/images/M36712

dan1120
10-24-2011, 07:37 PM
I don't think hondabond is made by Permatex. Just about all the Hondabond/Yamabond/Suzukibond/Japanabond stuff is made by ThreeBond, which is a Japanese competitor to Permatex. They make _really_ good stuff, which generally costs more than the Permatex equivalent but works much better in my experience.

Good to know. Where can you find this ThreeBond stuff? Do they have different colors/compounds like permatex does?

Scout Driver
10-24-2011, 07:41 PM
The GM upholstery cleaner in the spray-can is very effective. Used it to get grease out of upholstery with little effort.

Scott

tylers88
10-25-2011, 04:37 PM
Also I use GM dielectric silicone grease, for electrical stuff and lubricating brake parts

joeswamp
10-25-2011, 08:23 PM
Good to know. Where can you find this ThreeBond stuff? Do they have different colors/compounds like permatex does?

Actually the easiest places to get it are motorcycle and car dealers, because most companies rebrand it. For example, Hondabond 4 (and I think Yamabond) is ThreeBond 1194, which is this synthetic rubber stuff that's really good for sealing cases. SuzukiBond 1204b is ThreeBond 1204b, which is sort of like Permatex UltraBlack, but better. And the Toyota FIPG stuff discussed above is also a ThreeBond product but I forget the number.

I think several Mercedes OEM sealants are also ThreeBond, not sure. The manual for my Triumph motorcycle just specifies them by the number, I think in the UK these products are more available off the shelf.

You can of course order ThreeBond products online, usually there are folks on eBay selling them.

I should mention that my all-time favorite sealant (well really a gasket dressing) is Hylomar, which actually is available in US auto parts stores since it's distributed through Permatex.

bentwrench54
10-25-2011, 08:40 PM
as already mentioned, gm heat valve penetrant.

BJ42LX
10-31-2011, 05:28 PM
Toyota Black FIPG (Form-In-Place-Gasket)... the stuff is evil. Will seal anything. Black is oil proof, red is gear lube proof.

This just in for my locker swap (and trans swap in the spring). "For Professional Use"