Scary, Unsetteling scenerio

[mysterync]

We'll the bad news being about two months ago, A Young Gentleman was Putting a 9800lbs work truck on one of my 10,000 lb lifts. Having lifted other vehicles i was concerned that there would be a problem. Within 10 minutes i realized i was wrong! He picked the truck maybe 3 feet off the ground and walked out to answer his phone, So i continued lifting the truck without thinking to double check him! I got the truck around 60 inches and walked under it, Got a funny feeling and walked out to notice a arm slipping out! I dropped the truck as quickly as possible , but it just wasnt quick enough. I found 90% of the fault on him, as in being that he used the tall adapters on the Bend Pak xp-10cx on the back, and not the front throwing the weight ratio out of balance (I know, I should have shake tested first) . So in reality being all 100% my fault. Now here's the part that bothers me about bend pak. I called customer service to order the damaged parts, and asked about the locks, i was told , " The locks are only for posistioning the vehicle while its on the ground, They WILL NOT and Are Not Designed to prevent arm movement in the air, THEY WILL FAIL" :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: now i understand 10,000 lbs of balance nothing will stop, but there saying the provide no security at ALLLL?????? I've acctully tried it, Pushing on a locked arm, and sure enough, The Pop right loose, Are there any fixes for this problem? I dont feel safe under anything on a bend pak any more!

[wilbilt]

I've never felt safe under anything on a two-post lift. It just seems way too easy for the arms to swing out, leaving nothing but air under the vehicle.

[Junkman]

We'll the bad news being about two months ago, A Young Gentleman was Putting a 9800lbs work truck on one of my 10,000 lb lifts. Having lifted other vehicles i was concerned that there would be a problem. Within 10 minutes i realized i was wrong! He picked the truck maybe 3 feet off the ground and walked out to answer his phone, So i continued lifting the truck without thinking to double check him! I got the truck around 60 inches and walked under it, Got a funny feeling and walked out to notice a arm slipping out! I dropped the truck as quickly as possible , but it just wasnt quick enough. I found 90% of the fault on him, as in being that he used the tall adapters on the Bend Pak xp-10cx on the back, and not the front throwing the weight ratio out of balance (I know, I should have shake tested first) . So in reality being all 100% my fault. Now here's the part that bothers me about bend pak. I called customer service to order the damaged parts, and asked about the locks, i was told , " The locks are only for posistioning the vehicle while its on the ground, They WILL NOT and Are Not Designed to prevent arm movement in the air, THEY WILL FAIL" :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: now i understand 10,000 lbs of balance nothing will stop, but there saying the provide no security at ALLLL?????? I've acctully tried it, Pushing on a locked arm, and sure enough, The Pop right loose, Are there any fixes for this problem? I dont feel safe under anything on a bend pak any more!


I can't understand your problem. You were told by the manufacturer that it wasn't designed to be locked, buy you say that "Pushing on a locked arm, and sure enough, The Pop right loose".... What part of what the customer service persons explanation didn't you understand??? If you don't feel safe under the Bend Pak lift, then don't use it. Contact another lift company and find one that has the features that you want and need. If it isn't made, then you have limited other choices..... a 4 post lift with locks, or a jack and jackstands. I just can't understand how people can complain about a product that they didn't fully understand its operation prior to purchase, and are complaining about the product after they are told that it wasn't designed to do what they want. The time to ask questions is prior to purchase, not afterward.

[bmwpower]

Since when are the locks not meant to hold the arms in position in the air? Maybe it's a BP design, but my Rotary locks hold the arm in position at any height except 0.

[mysterync]

I can't understand your problem. You were told by the manufacturer that it wasn't designed to be locked, buy you say that "Pushing on a locked arm, and sure enough, The Pop right loose".... What part of what the customer service persons explanation didn't you understand??? If you don't feel safe under the Bend Pak lift, then don't use it. Contact another lift company and find one that has the features that you want and need. If it isn't made, then you have limited other choices..... a 4 post lift with locks, or a jack and jackstands. I just can't understand how people can complain about a product that they didn't fully understand its operation prior to purchase, and are complaining about the product after they are told that it wasn't designed to do what they want. The time to ask questions is prior to purchase, not afterward.

Look , I didnt come here to get jumped. I'm not complaining about the lift and I DID the research, I also have 2 other lifts. I'm Not Saying the customer service was a problem, I'm just speaking of a problem ( That bendpak considers a problem)! I'm Just posting my experience, There is know reason to get that attitude till your completly informed, Or maybe your a palm reader and already knew that! Im mentioning that two many people depend on the locks! There not intended for that! Secondly, Explain to me how the locks only work on the ground? Explain why there disengauged when on the ground? Of course im just an idiot compaired to you, Must be the fact you have such high post numbers, Is that dirrectly related to your iq?

PS I asked when i purchased the lift about the arm locking system and was told it was " More than Addequate" SP?

[mysterync]

Since when are the locks not meant to hold the arms in position in the air? Maybe it's a BP design, but my Rotary locks hold the arm in position at any height except 0.

Thanks BMW Power, Thats exactly what i was getting at, Sorry if my post seemed rude , Just bothered by the last poster!

[Junkman]

Look , 1I didnt come here to get jumped. I'm not complaining about the lift and I DID the research, I also have 2 other lifts. I'm Not Saying the customer service was a problem, I'm just speaking of a problem ( That bendpak considers a problem)! I'm Just posting my experience, 3There is know reason to get that attitude till your completly informed, Or maybe your a palm reader and already knew that! 4Im mentioning that two many people depend on the locks! There not intended for that! Secondly, 5Explain to me how the locks only work on the ground? Explain why there disengauged when on the ground? 6Of course im just an idiot compaired to you, Must be the fact 7you have such high post numbers, 8Is that dirrectly related to your iq?

PS I asked when i purchased the lift about the arm locking system and was told it was " More than Addequate" SP?

1) You didn't get jumped, you got my response. If you don't like my response, add me to your ignore list. I have no problem adding you to mine!!!:lol_hitti

2) Where in your first post did you mention that Bend Pak sees this as a problem??:headscrat

3) I based my response on what you posted. If you didn't post all the facts, that isn't my fault or problem. Possibly you should take more time to read what you post, along with properly training new employees to use the lifts & other equipment that you supply for them to do their jobs. If the employee were properly trained, you wouldn't be making the original post. :lol_hitti

4) I fail to see where you mention that too many people depend on the locks in your first post. This is an assumption on your part, that may or may not be true. Bend Pak has already advised you that there are no locks when the lift is in the up position. You made the assumption that there were. Others might have also made this assumption, however, it is best to know, not make an assumption that might not be fact. Your assumption and improper use lead to this failure. That isn't Bend Pak's fault!!!:shocking:

5) You should be asking this of the people at Bend Pak, not me. I didn't sell you the lift, nor did I say that I know all the details of the lift. I did say that you should have researched and asked questions about the lift prior to purchase, and you have no reason to expect that it will do something that the manufacturer didn't say it would do in writing. When it comes to mechanical devices, never assume anything that isn't claimed in the sales or installation manual / literature. :beer:

6) Your opinion of yourself, which may or may not be true. I reserve my decision, based on your additional posts. So far, I am leaning toward agreeing with you. :bounce:

7) After you have been here for a while and participated, so will your posting numbers increase. There are others here with higher numbers than mine.

8) Based on your communicative skills, and your spelling skills, I would agree that I might have a higher IQ than you, however, that isn't what matters on these forums. Learning from others experiences is what is important. Damning a manufacturer because one of your employees used a lift in a way that was improper, and your not educating the employee on safe operation of the lift, isn't the manufacturers fault, nor is it reasonable to expect a lift to do what it wasn't intended to do by design.

Now, I do have one question that I find unsettling. How can a arm that is properly positioned under the vehicle move when there is the weight of the vehicle on it, assuming that the vehicle was properly installed on the lift in the first place? I have seen cars fall off lifts, and every time, it was determined to be operator fault that caused the failure. Personally, I would never use a 2 post lift, since I know that if I were to make a mistake in the set up, that the lift can and will fail.

[Junkman]

Thanks BMW Power, Thats exactly what i was getting at, Sorry if my post seemed rude , Just bothered by the last poster!


In the immortal words of Harry S. Truman, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."......:lol_hitti :bounce: :lol_hitti

[mysterync]

:lol_hitti
Junkman, I'll be honest, After your post, I didnt like you, After your second post, I think i like you more :D

Yes, As I've already stated it was operator fault, Yes he was trained, I couldnt explain in words for stupid this individual is, (not a joking matter) THE BEND PAK REP SAID THE LOCKING SYSTEM WAS OKAY. Whats a locking system do junk man? And i guess we'll just have to see over time whos got the higher iq :owned2:

[Junkman]

:lol_hitti
Junkman, I'll be honest, After your post, I didnt like you, After your second post, I think i like you more :D

Yes, As I've already stated it was operator fault, Yes he was trained, I couldnt explain in words for stupid this individual is, (not a joking matter) THE BEND PAK REP SAID THE LOCKING SYSTEM WAS OKAY. Whats a locking system do junk man? And i guess we'll just have to see over time whos got the higher iq :owned2:


Life is too short to make enemies, and at my advanced age, I have already outlived most of them that I made when I was young and foolish. One other thing that you learn with age, is that a sales person will say anything that you want to hear, in order to make the sale.
As for IQ...... that is over rated to say the least. It isn't your IQ that is important, but how you use the intelligence that you are given. I have known many people that have lower than average IQ's, and they are great people and wonderful people to be around. I also know of some that have high IQ's, and they are miserable people to associate with, and you avoid at all costs.
If you stick around long enough, you will learn that there are those of us that are blunt, and those of us that will tell you what you want to hear. You will learn that there is a lot of good advise, and sometimes, not so good advise. The advise you get here is worth what you have paid for it. Just don't ask for a refund, because there will be none. That is my 5 cents worth...... it used to be my 2 cents worth, but I have adjusted it for inflation....:lol_hitti

[JSK]

All of you have good things to say and understandably with emotion. Sorry a BendPak product had to be the cause of so much passion. We'll see if the admin guys let this post go through. I hope they do because it can be very educational.

Being the SR. VP. of BendPak and having worked here for over 25 years, I can honestly say that I do know what I'm talking about and feel motivated to defend our great products and name. I do apologize for the misguidance on behalf of our customer service person however. Communication or the lack thereof seems to be the culprit.

This is the story on arm restraints. You will notice that I did not refer to them as arm locks because they are not. No industry professional will refer to them as arm locks.

This is verbatim how the OSHA endorsed standard reads. ANSI/ALI ALCTV: 2006 Standard for Automotive Lifts – Safety Requirement for Construction, Testing and Validation

10.2.8 / Swing Arm Restraint Test
Method – If the lift design requires swing arm restraints for compliance with this standard, (all two-post models do) a typical swing arm restraint shall be tested on a lift, or an equivalent test fixture. The test shall employ the longest swing arm available for the lift, positioned within the normal range of arm deployment for lifting. The swing arm restraint shall be tested be applying a load equal to one hundred fifty ( 150) pounds in the plane perpendicular to the arm’s normal swing motion, at the end of a fully extended arm, and perpendicular to the arm’s axis of extension.

Why is the standard worded that way? Why not make the arm restraints “locks” and have them hold more load? Imagine they did…….you are working under a raised truck that unbeknownst to you had an arm dislodge and was now precariously being balanced on a rounded frame edge. The arm “locks” however are doing their part and holding that arm in position….but for how long - Tick-tock. Having arm restraints with more load holding capacities would invariably cause more damage than good. Safe operation and understanding of proper lifting procedures is the cure. Train and re-train.

Back in the early eighties many two-post lifts had no arm restraints whatsoever. You would raise a rigid chassis and although all four pads were under the vehicle, only three were actually making contact. Same thing happens today as well. Remember it only take three points of contact to make something balance. In those days however, a mechanic walking by one of the free-floating arms could easily dislodge the arm inadvertently or….. the slightest shift could cause the arm to “shoot out” fiercely with a bang as it slipped off the corner of an undercoated frame contact point.

Arm restraints are to prevent just that. Many people tend to believe that they are to stand firm as a 9,000 lb. truck is falling. In that event, there is no mechanical devise in the world that would prevent the eminent fall - best to stand clear. If you did a rough calculation of the moment loads placed on the arms under normal use you would understand. Now try adding about 20,000 pounds more due to the sudden shift in weight and shock load.

Arm restraints work in this manner. They are a spring loaded spur and rack gear design. You can disengage them simply by pulling up on the handle - swing your arms into position, then let go of the handle. The rack gear will come down onto the spur gear and be ready to engage during movement. In addition, when the lift rests on the ground, a release rod coming into contact with the base frame raises the rack for you making it easier to positin the arms on the ground. However, when the lift is raised, the restraints become activated. That is what our rep was referring to. The devises should always be inspected, set and adjusted to operate when the lift is elevated. If for some reason the components are damaged or inoperable, please consult the factory.

If your lift is equipped with arm restraints whether they are Rotary’s or BendPak, please inspect them and adjust them as necessary to prevent unloaded pads from shooting out from under the vehicle. Do not count on them to compensate for mis-loaded vehicles and poor training. And be very careful when stacking height adapters. No more than 9” max please.

Again, I do apologize for the misguidance on behalf of our customer service rep.

Hey Mysterync – send me an email. I’ll see what I can do. jeff@bendpak.com

[icnsltmfg]

Jeff...That was very well described, and I at least appreciate the fact that you spoke about the industry and lifts in general and not just Bend-Pak this and Bend Pak that...BTW, for your 4 post lifts, what do you recommend for cable and other moving areas for lubrication (both time wise and type). Is spray white lithium grease the best on cables, pulley's, and locks?

[JSK]

Lubrication for our four post lifts as follows -

Cables surely - make sure inside strands get lubricated as best you can. Really, anything that can penetrate to the inside strands is fine. Not WLG for this application. Has to be liquid like 90-wt or other cable type lube. This will address the strands rubbing together as the strands take different routes around the sheaves. Outer strands wide turns, inner strands tighter, thus the “rubbing”. Then make sure the outer sides of the cables are lubricated to reduce friction wear on sheave grooves.

Air cylinders - yes - miracle oil doused into the airlines monthly should do it. Moisture in the airlines is a culprit. The air cylinders are stainless and aluminum but can become "sticky" if not maintained.

Sheave bearings really are maintenance free. We use oil impregnated bronze bushings so lube not necessary. It’s interesting - if you take one 1-1/4” x 1” OIBB and “squish” it in a 30-ton press, it will “ooze” about ½ teaspoon of oil. That’s what happens when you put load on the lift. The bearings self-lubricate. P.S. - for anyone questioning “bushings” over “roller bearings” for this application- bushings hands down winner. I’ve had first hand experience as we have used both. Bearings although they look durable have a fraction of the load bearing capacity as bushings.

Safety lock pins – keep maintained a lightly lubed with WD-40 or similar to keep free movement.

Other than that, not much maintenance. No need to lube the ladders unless the bump-stop slide blocks inside the columns are sticking on it as the lift rises. For those unfamiliar, the slider blocks at the ends of the cross tubes “wrap” around the adjustable ladder to make sure the lock “holes” are kept exactly where they need to be relative to the safety lock devises.

I would use lighter spray than WLG if possible especially when it is being used merely to keep parts loose and free of corrosion rather than decreasing friction. I like clean and grease can sometimes become a magnet for dust and dirt.

But I am so encouraged that you guys are even concerned about maintenance. That is sooooo comforting, because with over 25 years here I've seen it all.

JSK
BendPak

[wilbilt]

JSK,
Any chance of getting a manual for a "Pro-Lift" BP-1288? The lift has the old Moorpark address on it, and with the overhead cylinder, doesn't share many similarities with the newer models.

I am basically looking for the floor layout info.

Sorry for the OT.

[JSK]

Will respond at office.

Sure.

No sweat

[Zeroek]

Is there anywhere on the web that has a manual for lift maintenance???