View Full Version : This tire machine any good?


bmwpower
12-18-2007, 09:20 AM
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/512269216.html

MXtras
12-18-2007, 09:57 AM
For that $, YES!

Scott

OldCarGuy
12-18-2007, 10:09 AM
For $350.00 I donít think you can go wrong. However this model youíre limited to a 36Ē outside diameter tire.
http://www.asedeals.com/video_ranger_tire_changer.avi

I have a new Ranger RX-950AT on itís way to my place for my new garage make-over. I chose this model because it will fit tires to 50Ē diameter and slightly larger rim clamp sizes than the RX-850. It also has an additional assist arm over the straight RX-950.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/rx950at.jpg

Red Green
12-18-2007, 10:32 AM
If that was near me I would have allready bought it. I guess I will have to stick with my slide hammer and spoons for a little while longer.

bmwpower
12-18-2007, 10:54 AM
Yea, but what about:

"...Flaws include: small air leak from diverter, air jets inop..."

Any idea what that might be??

I'd be going in blind on something like this as I don't know anything about these machines.

Red Green
12-18-2007, 11:26 AM
my guess is the air jets are the part that goes poof when you are beading up a tire

I have no idea on the what the diverter is

Spookrider
12-18-2007, 11:39 AM
Him saying he did low profile and run flats on that is very very yea right. I would have him to prove it.
I have hard enough time to get them on with all the specal attachment that is on the tire changer being used.
Him saying that he did low profile tire, he must have had to fight them on.

OldCarGuy
12-18-2007, 12:05 PM
Without actually looking at the changer I’d be only guessing what’s wrong with it. But I’d guess that the diverter valve leaking is what causing the bead blast to be inoperative. It may be something as simple as a O-ring replacement to repair the valve. In any event, being a newer machine, parts should be available from the factory. Though the seller did state the changer will operate in this condition.

Vicegrip
12-19-2007, 08:48 AM
Get it if you can. Tire machines are long lived and you can get the parts needed to repair. There is almost nothing that can't be fixed and for cheap if you do the work.

I got a Coats 5030 for lunch money and bought some parts to fix it up. It looked like it was in a large dealership for almost ten years as it was. After all was done I spent $125 for a $3k machine and it works like new now. They are simple machines to work on if you have standard backyard car nut skills. Coats has great support and it looks like Bend-Pac also supports the Ranger line well.

IMO Look for a Coats 700 balancer. Nice and small footprint so it does not eat up you shop floor but will balance a truck tire. I found one on Craig's list and got it for $450 with 100+ pounds of weights and a weight rack.

OldCarGuy
12-19-2007, 10:04 AM
The Ranger tire changer takes a back seat to a Coats. Then again the cost of a Ranger is half that of a Coatís new. You have got the best of two worlds, purchasing a Coats for a song and fixing it up. Unfortunately I working on so many projects, I decided to purchase a new Ranger.

I have yet to decide on a wheel balancer. I may purchase a new bubble balancer and let it go at that. It takes up little floor space and has no working parts (particularly electronic) to break. Then again are they as accurate as a spin balancer? So Iím evaluating a new spin unit.

Nice shop Vicegrip! :beer:

Vicegrip
12-19-2007, 11:11 AM
Thanks, I still get the grins every time I walk in and flip the lights. Your's ain't too shabby ether...;)

I have less experience with the Ranger line but from the little I do have I bet you will not be disappointed. Ranger is not HF. My used Coats 5030 was in the section of a shop that has 28 service bays. 7 years of 28 mechanics banging on it and it took it standing up. From the looks of the Rangers they would hold up well also. Home use I might guess that non use would be more factor from piston shafts rusting or seals drying up. Use good dry air and look it over from time to time. There is little maintenance other than the gear oil on the case and it is measured in years IIRC.

IMO I would go with a name brand electronic spin balancer. From what I have seen so far they are robust. There is a big difference between a static balance and a dynamic spin balance. Home use you don't need the big floor space eating cover. Tires are not spun at high speeds anymore. (Just don't stand in front of a wet tire when you spin it up the first time. Ask me how I know) The little Coats 700 uses a direct drive motor and measures acceleration. The motor is the moving part. From what I have been able to dig up from the internet the 700 is the smallest one with full dynamic and standard balance and luck would have it I also found one used and cheap. There is a long ROI on tire machines in home use considering what it costs for a rotate and balance at you local tire shop. Most bottom end name brand balancers balance as well as the larger one just a bit slower. As an example the 700 has the same degree of accuracy as the larger units but takes 10 seconds to calculate where the upper end ones take 5 seconds. From what I can tell so far only when you get into road force and thrust angle measurement do the dynamic machines give better balance results. At this point you are talking close to if not well into 5 digit money. I have 5 hunter 9700 road force balancers at work and they just run and run. The 2 coats units I have would have been $6K new street price and well out of my working stiff price range. 5030's are not uncommon and can be found used all the time. The 700 is less so but there are plenty of similar out there. Just like a welder, name brand to start. Money and space no object? Hunter has a new one that also measures thrust angle run out but big bucks.

TNToy
12-19-2007, 01:11 PM
Yea, but what about:

"...Flaws include: small air leak from diverter, air jets inop..."
The 'air jets' are underneath the tire/wheel when it's mounted on the machine. Ever seen a set of tires stored for months in a stack? The bottom one is squished - it'll show up really tall and thin. So you pop it onto the wheel with the machine, but you can't get air into it because the wheel is 7" wide, but the tire's beads are only 5" apart. The air jets are used to mount this tire, in theory. You lift the tire up against the outer lip of the wheel, step on the pedal, and the jets dump air between the inner bead and the wheel to blow the tire into place. In theory. They work about half the time.

A tire machine with an extra pneumatic forcing arm is much more useful. You simply press down on the tire with the arm as you rotate the tire, mashing the lower bead into place a little bit with each pass. Once it's on tight enough, you can lift the tire into place on the outside of the wheel, and inflate it to pop it into place.

For $350, I'd jump on it. Unless you do a lot of economy car or SUV tires, you won't have a lot of problems with this. The 45, 55, or 60 series sidewalls you'd be mounting on newer BMWs are shot enough they don't really have problems with this. Low-profile tires make you cuss because they're difficult to get onto the wheel with a mediocre machine, but they're so stiff they already perfectly match the wheel once they're there - air jets aren't needed.

Doing tires on an older BMW from the 80s might be a different story. ;)

I have yet to decide on a wheel balancer. I may purchase a new bubble balancer and let it go at that. It takes up little floor space and has no working parts (particularly electronic) to break. Then again are they as accurate as a spin balancer? So Iím evaluating a new spin unit.
There is a huge difference between a spin balancer and a bubble unit.

The main one is a dynamic (2-plane) balance. Hyprothetically, lets say that to get a tire perfectly balanced, it needs 0.50oz on the inside, and 0.25oz on the ouside of the wheel.

With a bubble balancer, you could just add 0.75oz to either spot, and it will balance. A machine that measures in more than on plane is much more desireable - not all spin-balancers will do more than a single-plane balance.

IIRC, there are some decent units that aren't powered that are fairly reasonably priced. I think Hunter makes one. You simply spin the tire by hand, and once it's gotten a good reading, it spits out the amount of weight needed, and where to stick it.

TNToy
12-19-2007, 01:13 PM
Oh, and I didn't see vicegrips reply just above mine. He's on the money. Every shop around here pretty much uses all-Hunter equipment for mount/balance/alignment jobs,so I've no experience with Coats or Ranger.

But he summed up the different styles of machines pretty well. :)

Charles (in GA)
12-19-2007, 09:27 PM
The 'air jets' are underneath the tire/wheel when it's mounted on the machine. Ever seen a set of tires stored for months in a stack? The bottom one is squished - it'll show up really tall and thin. So you pop it onto the wheel with the machine, but you can't get air into it because the wheel is 7" wide, but the tire's beads are only 5" apart. The air jets are used to mount this tire, in theory. You lift the tire up against the outer lip of the wheel, step on the pedal, and the jets dump air between the inner bead and the wheel to blow the tire into place. In theory. They work about half the time.

I'll agree with this, you would need a HUGE volume of air to accomplish this, and certainly not work the effort to fix it if the rest of the machine is working.

Charles

Charles (in GA)
12-19-2007, 09:33 PM
I have yet to decide on a wheel balancer. I may purchase a new bubble balancer and let it go at that. It takes up little floor space and has no working parts (particularly electronic) to break. Then again are they as accurate as a spin balancer? So Iím evaluating a new spin unit.


The experience I had years ago with a bubble balancer was that if you were inside where the wind wasn't blowing, and had some patience, you could do an excellent job of balancing a tire with a bubble unit. These new electronic units may work, but I'm not impressed with them. I get a set of tires mounted and balanced and they run smooth, but nothing to write home about.

I have a Hunter spin on the car unit, one of those ones with the dangerous expand in the rim mounting and the finger wheels and weight unit that attaches to the rim mount. I am very careful to check it each and every time I mount the parts, tugging and pulling on them to insure they are tight and latched. I have a single motor spin unit and it really struggles with anything over a medium sized 14 inch tire, but then again, thats about all I have anyhow.

WolverineCoatings
12-19-2007, 10:17 PM
One of our customers is an electrician who started a little tire operation in the back of his shop. His son was going to run the tire business. Anyway, they've gotten too busy with their real jobs to do any tires and he is putting his brand new equipment up for sale.

You can contact him here:
http://www.clarkelectricservice.com/ (http://www.clarkelectricservice.com/)

OH... P.S. Ask him what he thinks of Wolverine Coatings on his floor!

bmwpower
12-19-2007, 10:24 PM
Tire machine is gone...:( someday....someday.

wilbilt
12-19-2007, 11:05 PM
The experience I had years ago with a bubble balancer was that if you were inside where the wind wasn't blowing, and had some patience, you could do an excellent job of balancing a tire with a bubble unit.

Absolutely. I have used them all, including the Hunter on-the-car balancers.

I learned over the years how to do a good job with a bubble unit. I have been looking for a decent one for home use. It would be difficult to justify the cost of a computer balancer when only doing a few sets of tires per year.

OldCarGuy
12-21-2007, 10:57 PM
Okay guys Iím listening. I have thrown out the idea of a bubble balancer. And have a new Ranger DST-1000 being shipped. Should look good sitting next to my new Ranger 950 RX-950AT tire changer. Now I need to find a source for the weights...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/Ranger_DST-1000.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/ranger_RX750AT.jpg

bmwpower
12-22-2007, 12:33 AM
Okay guys Iím listening. I have thrown out the idea of a bubble balancer. And have a new Ranger DST-1000 being shipped. Should look good sitting next to my new Ranger 950 RX-950AT tire changer. Now I need to find a source for the weights...



Do you really go thru that many tires? I would love to buy new, but not sure I can justify the expense.

I prefer the German (Porsche, BMW, etc.) style weights for nice wheels. Everything else gets the cheapies.

enginerd
12-22-2007, 12:40 AM
I'm definitely going to look into getting a changer/balancer. Over 2-3 seasons of racing it should pay for itself. Problem is for race wheels/tires, you need a high end balancer, so thats where the $ comes in. Mounting fresh slicks is a bitch sometimes, although with some of the new machines, they have 2 or more arms that are used to position the tire as you roll it around to get the bead over the tire lip.

OldCarGuy
12-22-2007, 09:26 AM
Do you really go thru that many tires? I would love to buy new, but not sure I can justify the expense.

I prefer the German (Porsche, BMW, etc.) style weights for nice wheels. Everything else gets the cheapies.

There is no way I can justify purchasing a new wheel balancer let alone a tire changer. After all can anyone justify most their toys. All I can say I always wanted them. And after my last episode at the tire store I want to have the capabilities to save the frustration replacing tires. And what I saved from not outfitting my garage make-over with Lista cabinets with stainless steel tops I was able to purchase that 52" Waterloo cabinet set along with the changer and balancer.

bmwpower
12-22-2007, 09:35 AM
Woh... Touche, my friend. :)

There is no way I can justify purchasing a new wheel balancer let alone a tire changer. After all can anyone justify most their toys. All I can say I always wanted them. And after my last episode at the tire store I want to have the capabilities to save the frustration replacing tires. And what I saved from not outfitting my garage make-over with Lista cabinets with stainless steel tops I was able to purchase that 52" Waterloo cabinet set along with the changer and balancer.

Vicegrip
12-22-2007, 10:28 AM
Do you really go thru that many tires? I would love to buy new, but not sure I can justify the expense.

I prefer the German (Porsche, BMW, etc.) style weights for nice wheels. Everything else gets the cheapies.I too have "toys" that will never pay back in cash. They pay back in other ways. Satisfaction in doing it yourself to the standards that you desire and not having to go to and deal with other people on their time and rules are but two that come to mind. Unlike our gold standard, Old Car Guy, (more power to you) I have to wait like a spider to pounce on deals when deals are offered and it often pays off in getting tools that I would otherwise not be able to afford. I do have some of tools that I forked out real money and will likely not see a payback. My Syncrowave and the heated 3 stage parts washer are examples. I get the grins every time I finish up a project or part of a project and it turns out like I had in mind. You cannot buy that.

Old car guy, Be sure to get coated wheel weights. Uncoated weights can leave streaks on alloy rims. In the clip on style there are 6 or so profiles that fit most rims. There are stick on weights that are in flat strips as well as some that are moulded and have a curve to them. I like the curved moulded type for the race wheels as they are coated and have good sticky tape on them. I always use some HVAC foil tape on top of stick on weights. It keeps water and wheel cleaning solutions from attacking the sticky tape and on racing wheels prevents the heat buildup from loosening the weights. The flat ones are far less expensive per ounce and are not coated.

I have little problem changing the racing slicks with the basic Coats. They are not as easy as a big fat street tire for you PU but they are not all the much more if you do it right. one trick is to use blocks on a rope to keep the bead in the drop slot on the rim. If you get tires moving on the rims during braking or acceleration use cheap unscented hair spray like Aquanet rather than tire soap while mounting. The hair spray is slippery but dries glue like.
My experience in balancing racing tires is a basic spin balance works well. High speeds are seen but the balance gets messed up regardless. Hot tires spin off ropes of tire material and also pick up other material on and off track. I have scrapped off rocks or all sizes ciggy butts, bottle tops, tire weights all kinds of junk from sticky tires. I shave them clean before I rebalance after flipping them on the rim.