View Full Version : More fun with the troublesome neighbor


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TireTracks
09-14-2012, 04:30 AM
They started with a feud over a pig.

Then the *hit rolled down hill into the whole " Family Honor" thing.



Op, be worried if the Neighbor starts ranting about his family Honor, I'd be worried then....

checkthisout
09-14-2012, 04:47 AM
They started with a feud over a pig.

Pig, easement..... what's the difference?

EOC_Jason
09-14-2012, 08:47 AM
Hmm... if it was a pig in question then a fence would *have* to be up, at least here in Texas because of open range laws... ;)

theoldwizard1
09-14-2012, 10:26 AM
Pig, easement..... what's the difference?

Flippin' channels a couple of nights ago. Cop show, down south. Lady cop called to handle a "disturbance".

Seems that a guy with a pick up, hit and killed a wild pig. Pig landed on neighbor's property. The argument was over whose pig was it.

LEO tried the King Solomon approach. Didn't work. Finally said it belonged to the guy in the truck (sustained minor damage).

Dave Maxwell
09-14-2012, 11:10 AM
My neighbor or his kids have let the air out of my lawnmower and rototiller tire this week. I even have footprints. My garage is wide open until I get floor

checkthisout
09-14-2012, 11:21 AM
Flippin' channels a couple of nights ago. Cop show, down south. Lady cop called to handle a "disturbance".

Seems that a guy with a pick up, hit and killed a wild pig. Pig landed on neighbor's property. The argument was over whose pig was it.

LEO tried the King Solomon approach. Didn't work. Finally said it belonged to the guy in the truck (sustained minor damage).

Damn right it was his! Although I couldn't fault the lady for trying, it is after all Bacon.....

God I love Bacon.

ptschram
09-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Letter to his attorney mailed this morning.

At one point, she is going to have to tell him that he is not competent to fight this battle against me. I'm waiting for the letter telling me he is no longer represented by outside counsel!

theoldwizard1
09-14-2012, 12:37 PM
Damn right it was his! Although I couldn't fault the lady for trying, it is after all Bacon.....
That is almost exactly what the other guy said ! :lol:

b-body-bob
09-14-2012, 12:51 PM
We pulled all the permits for our buildings, never broke ground until everything was kosher and legal. Built everything exactly to how the plans showed that were submitted, etc, etc... So why can't others?


So now you see it as your responsibility to be the neighborhood narc? Yeah that should end well for you.

EOC_Jason
09-14-2012, 01:45 PM
So now you see it as your responsibility to be the neighborhood narc? Yeah that should end well for you.

When the neighbor raised their property 5' (Yes, five FEET) above ours (and adjacent neighbors) right up to the property line, and also tried to drain off all his water onto our property... Yeah, things went downhill REAAAAAL quick...

ptschram
09-27-2012, 03:49 PM
Didn't go to the hearing night before last, but in conversations with the head of the building dept I am not too concerned about further issues.

Haven't had any major issues with the neighbor since the last letter to his attorney.

larry_g
09-27-2012, 04:16 PM
I've been following this with interest but I've yet to see if you got an official ruling on weather there is a easement across you property. Did I miss the post or has the ruling on a easement been lost in all the other stuff?
lg
no neat sig line

EOC_Jason
09-27-2012, 05:40 PM
I'm pretty sure he said that there was no proper easement documentation, and that NEW documentation is being written up (since old is missing) that will be sure NOT to have any sort of easement on there anyhow.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

ptschram
09-28-2012, 12:55 PM
There is a fence across the easement and nothing has been done/said since.

ptschram
09-30-2012, 02:02 PM
The portion of fence that was the point of contention has now been moved to allow access for the propane delivery guys AND to ensure strict compliance.

The fence across the easement is a little bit more permanent.

AS it looks right now, next spring, I"ll make the fence between the shop and the more robust fencing equally robust as the rest and add some much-needed gates. As for the fence across the easement, tee-posts and fence wire to hold the panels in place are probably sufficient to get the message across.

Curiously enough, with the fence to the shop changed, there is now room for my trail-rig near the shop door as I might be able to do some work on it in between ignoring other bigger jobs.

ptschram
10-07-2012, 11:51 AM
Things are getting interesting again.

I sent his attorney another letter indicating he was continuing his stalking and got another letter threatening litigation. Gee, maybe they really, really mean it this time. It's not as though this isn't the second time they've threatened us with a suit.

I wonder if the judge will accept their secondary source documents that allude to an easement but still do not define it with specificity.

EOC_Jason
10-07-2012, 02:07 PM
I wonder if the judge will accept their secondary source documents that allude to an easement but still do not define it with specificity.

Usually if terms could be reasonably interpreted in different ways, the court will likely rule in the way most beneficial to the person who didnít write the contract (i.e. YOU).

If it doesn't define the location, size, dimensions, etc of the easement... Fine, he can have one SQUARE INCH of easement on the OPPOSITE corner of your property... lol...

As long as the fence is up and you have cut off his access, I wouldn't do a d*mn thing until you get served with papers to appear in court. Then go on the date it tells you to, and ask for a reset because you didn't have enough time to find an attorney... ;) Keep costing that a-hole money... ;)

ptschram
10-09-2012, 07:01 PM
That is precisely our plan.

As soon as we are served, I'll request a continuance to allow me to confer with counsel. Then will come my discovery proceedings, then another continuance.

I'll do my best to bankrupt him long before it actually goes to trial.

Mike007
10-09-2012, 07:10 PM
That is precisely our plan.

As soon as we are served, I'll request a continuance to allow me to confer with counsel. Then will come my discovery proceedings, then another continuance.

I'll do my best to bankrupt him long before it actually goes to trial.

Do you believe at this point it will actually come to a court date?

If I were you, based on what you have posted, at this point I would 1) have a good camera system 2) have a firearm handy at all times 3) try and just ignore the guy and not send his lawyer anything. The nonsense he's doing is probably just to get under your skin. He may get some satisfaction out of you reacting.

ptschram
10-09-2012, 08:09 PM
Do you believe at this point it will actually come to a court date?

If I were you, based on what you have posted, at this point I would 1) have a good camera system 2) have a firearm handy at all times 3) try and just ignore the guy and not send his lawyer anything. The nonsense he's doing is probably just to get under your skin. He may get some satisfaction out of you reacting.

No, not really. I can't believe his attorney is continuing the charade, but she is certainly charging him every time she says she's gonna do something.

I hope to have a wireless camera system going by this weekend.

I'm rarely far from a firearm.

I get great satisfaction knowing he's paying every time I write a letter. Keep in mind that every letter I write I call his mental status into question and suggest counseling "before he commits an act that even the most reasonable of men would consider a threat of grievous bodily injury".

I am equally certain that he's well aware that the sloppiness of the folks he hired to do the paperwork were incompetent and he's bluffed everybody for years and he's finally come up against someone who a) won't back down to his bullying and b) might have an idea as to what he's doing.

signcrafter
10-09-2012, 09:26 PM
No, not really. I can't believe his attorney is continuing the charade, but she is certainly charging him every time she says she's gonna do something.

I hope to have a wireless camera system going by this weekend.

I'm rarely far from a firearm.

I get great satisfaction knowing he's paying every time I write a letter. Keep in mind that every letter I write I call his mental status into question and suggest counseling "before he commits an act that even the most reasonable of men would consider a threat of grievous bodily injury".

I am equally certain that he's well aware that the sloppiness of the folks he hired to do the paperwork were incompetent and he's bluffed everybody for years and he's finally come up against someone who a) won't back down to his bullying and b) might have an idea as to what he's doing.

I personally think sending letters to attorney is just poking the beehive. You have a fence up blocking his "right of way" so problem solved until he drives a tractor threw the fence right? What else is he doing now that you have the fence up and he can't get threw? If it was me I would let it go until he damages the fence or does something else. Unless I am missing other actions of his?

ptschram
10-10-2012, 07:37 AM
The deadline for me to clear the easement is today. I've been moving vehicles all morning so they are on the easement.

As to what he is doing, not much, he hasn't done any of his intimidating staring, pointing to his eyes, etc since my last letter to his attorney.

Yeah, I'm just giving him back what he's given me, it's probably time to stop until they make another move.

jrherald420
10-10-2012, 07:46 AM
Im not understanding, i thought there was no easement found. Why do you have to clear it? Sorry if this has been asked already this thread is very confusing to try and follow.

signcrafter
10-10-2012, 09:03 AM
The deadline for me to clear the easement is today. I've been moving vehicles all morning so they are on the easement.

As to what he is doing, not much, he hasn't done any of his intimidating staring, pointing to his eyes, etc since my last letter to his attorney.

Yeah, I'm just giving him back what he's given me, it's probably time to stop until they make another move.

That would be my suggestion. If he is leaving you alone leave him alone and hopefully this will just die. If he continues to drive on the easement then do what you have to but as long as he is leaving you alone why push him?

Im not understanding, i thought there was no easement found. Why do you have to clear it? Sorry if this has been asked already this thread is very confusing to try and follow.

The way I understand it there was an easement writen up a long time ago between past owner and the neighbor. The easement was writen poorly and won't hold up in court. The neighbor's attorney sent PTSchram a letter threatening court if he doesn't grant access to the easement. PTschram put up a fence so the easement is blocked.

theoldwizard1
10-10-2012, 09:21 AM
I get great satisfaction knowing he's paying every time I write a letter.

Sorry to kind of "hijack" this thread, but that reminded me of a recent divorce case involving a friends 80+ year old father. His second wife left him and wanted alimony. Ultimately the judge gave her what she wanted but after not showing up twice at the finalization of the divorce agreement, the judge granted it (in her and her lawyer's absence) and told the old guy to send the checks to "The Friend of the Courts", who normally processes payment for Child Support.

In our county Friend of the Court is typically 6-18 behind on payment distribution.

Her lawyer tried to go back to court for "non-payment of alimony". His attorney sent a letter to the judge and her attorney showing paymnet to the Friend of the Court and the judge refused to her the complaint.

I'll bet her attorney was pissed, because he know he wasn't going to get paid for a long time !

ptschram
10-10-2012, 10:08 AM
This morning, my Snap-On truck was down so I went to breakfast at the local redneck diner. When I came home, I parked my borrowed big diesel pick-up truck right out by the road on the disputed easement.

About 0900 hours, the dogs were going nuts. The neighbor was on the other neighbor's lane for about 20 minutes, presumably taking pictures and calling his attorney. I went about my business, but did go hang my inverted flag on the front lawn!

We'll see what happens. I'm willing to back down if the court tells me to, but not until then! I think my repeated requests for a primary source document will at the very least be enough to argue against my having to pay his fees should he prevail.

Mike007
10-10-2012, 10:30 AM
but did go hang my inverted flag on the front lawn!

Why? :dunno:

signcrafter
10-10-2012, 10:49 AM
Why? :dunno:

Inverted flag is a "distress" signal.

ptschram
10-10-2012, 11:09 AM
Why? :dunno:

IMO, America has been in distress since 2001-09-11.

I'm a political wacko and admit it.

SuperSocket
10-10-2012, 11:20 AM
No offense, but to me it's like you are intentionally provoking more problems. It's like you enjoy it.

I think you better pray that he doesn't come up with some documents that can stand in court, or else you're going to pay for all your own letters, rent of occupying his easement, repairs to his easement, and various of other legal bills.


To me I would be done with it without provoking and poking at him and his attorney.

ptschram
10-10-2012, 12:13 PM
I'd really like him to just go away, of course, he'd like it if I moved away.

He brought all this on himself. Had he come near to accepting my attempts to befriend him, none of this would have happened.

Before I learned that he was at the heart of my zoning problems, I offered to have him help me hunt the coyotes around here-even offered him a rifle when he said he didn't own a gun. When he had his heart attack, I offered to feed his dog, run him to the hospital, pick up prescriptions, etc.

I might not be the best neighbor, but I'm far from the worst.

EOC_Jason
10-10-2012, 12:15 PM
Well, the burden of proof is on the neighbors shoulders. And what has been produced thus far seems far from solid. If they are withholding something concrete just to wait to go to court, the judge probably won't grant him attorney's fees because it could have easily been settled out of court if he produced the document...

Personally, I would keep poking the neighbor... If you keep egging him on he will waste time in court just because you kept pissing him off. The fence is up, his access is blocked, just let it be...

Mike007
10-10-2012, 12:45 PM
I'd really like him to just go away, of course, he'd like it if I moved away.

He brought all this on himself. Had he come near to accepting my attempts to befriend him, none of this would have happened.

Before I learned that he was at the heart of my zoning problems, I offered to have him help me hunt the coyotes around here-even offered him a rifle when he said he didn't own a gun. When he had his heart attack, I offered to feed his dog, run him to the hospital, pick up prescriptions, etc.

I might not be the best neighbor, but I'm far from the worst.

I don't think anyone is questioning that the guy is a flaming a-hole and you attempted to be a good neighbor. I think the point is you may be better off letting sleeping dogs lie. It's not like the there is no further action he can take to try and create further problems for you, so why provoke him?

With any luck maybe he'll have another heart attack and your head-ache will be gone. :thumbup:

ptschram
10-10-2012, 01:45 PM
With any luck maybe he'll have another heart attack and your head-ache will be gone. :thumbup:

My wife apologizes to God quite often for her less-than-charitable thoughts.:p

Shocker
10-11-2012, 03:40 AM
I know this is quite a ways into this, but there is an easement on my property that is not recorded on my title.

It is from the original platting of the various lots (in the city). It is a 30ft utility easement across the back of my property and several others. It ends at the end of neighbors property.

Now, I had to spent a lot of time and do a deep title search going back to the 1945 platting of the property just to find a tiny little blurb before I built my shop.

It is not recorded on my title, neighbors titles etc. But it is there nonetheless.

Not to rain on your parade (I am all for proper use of property and the owners rights), but it could be there somewhere....hiding...



Like a easement ninja....

ptschram
10-11-2012, 05:15 AM
Easement Ninja-I like!

That's why we hired a surveyor and had the title insurance company lawyers search before we did anything.

sometoyotaguy
10-11-2012, 07:20 AM
It seems as though if it's not on the current title, then it's no longer valid even if it was on there at some point.

power wagon
10-11-2012, 07:40 AM
oboy another neighbor thread, iam just glad you dont live up here

SlappyWhite
10-11-2012, 07:55 AM
Looking at the maps the parcel of land he is accessing is technically land locked. My guess is the original easement was due to the fact that the parcel of land (directly behind you) could only be accessed by either your lot, your other neighbors, or his lot, being that it is right behind yours the easement was at one point in a logical place.

The easement was likely put in place before someone (same person) owned all the lots, assuming that each of those parcels would (or could) have separate owners (your lot, his lot, and the two separate lots behind yours and his houses).

In principle now he can access his land via his own lot so he does not need the easement. So far it seems the easement has no legal standing unless he comes up with some documentation. I am not sure what the courts would say regarding the fact that it had been used for years...

If it was me, at this point I would have blocked it off like you have BUT I would NOT be sending all those letters to his lawyer. I likely would have blocked it with bollards and chain (and maybe a ditch), not the expense of a fence. If there are legitimate threats or attempts at intimidation use the proper authorities (I know you have in the past to no avail but regardless). The letters will back-fire on you, I have little doubt in that.

At this point, block it off, do not respond to him, record him on video. If there are real threats (not just stinkeye), document and inform the police.

EOC_Jason
10-11-2012, 09:01 AM
I know this is quite a ways into this, but there is an easement on my property that is not recorded on my title.

It is from the original platting of the various lots (in the city). It is a 30ft utility easement across the back of my property and several others. It ends at the end of neighbors property.

Now, I had to spent a lot of time and do a deep title search going back to the 1945 platting of the property just to find a tiny little blurb before I built my shop.

It is not recorded on my title, neighbors titles etc. But it is there nonetheless.

Not to rain on your parade (I am all for proper use of property and the owners rights), but it could be there somewhere....hiding...

If it's not on your current plat, then (you will have to consult an attorney on this) the easement could have been relinquished some time ago. Easements come and go... When a utility or individual no longer needs the access the easement is terminated... So it would make sense if it would appear on something 60 years ago, but nothing today...

JimVonBaden
10-11-2012, 09:06 AM
I still do not get why he wants to drive through your property when there are easy alternatives that do not significantly inconvenience him? :dunno:

Jim :cool:

signcrafter
10-11-2012, 09:48 AM
I still do not get why he wants to drive through your property when there are easy alternatives that do not significantly inconvenience him? :dunno:

Jim :cool:

A couple of reasons. First, he has nothing better to do than play these games. Or he wants to show a power grab over his neighbors. Or he doesn't want to damage his property driving over his grass when he can damage someone else's property. Or he is trying to add value to his property so when he sells it will include an easement. There are tons of reasons he might want to do it. My guess is it's an older guy who doesn't have a lot of other things going on that has time to play games or just doesn't want a neighbor telling him what he can or can't do.

Defender Chassis
10-11-2012, 10:17 AM
A couple of reasons. First, he has nothing better to do than play these games. Or he wants to show a power grab over his neighbors. Or he doesn't want to damage his property driving over his grass when he can damage someone else's property. Or he is trying to add value to his property so when he sells it will include an easement. There are tons of reasons he might want to do it. My guess is it's an older guy who doesn't have a lot of other things going on that has time to play games or just doesn't want a neighbor telling him what he can or can't do.

I am not taking the neighbors side but if you put yourself in his shoes you may have a better understanding. He retained an easement by what he thought was legal and fair means. A new guy moves in and now is telling him he no longer has said easement. It might be all the neighbors fault but you should be able to understand why he is disappointed.

TO REPEAT: I am not taking the neighbors side, just trying to give a little perspective. It helps if we understand where our enemies are coming from.

signcrafter
10-11-2012, 10:27 AM
I am not taking the neighbors side but if you put yourself in his shoes you may have a better understanding. He retained an easement by what he thought was legal and fair means. A new guy moves in and now is telling him he no longer has said easement. It might be all the neighbors fault but you should be able to understand why he is disappointed.

TO REPEAT: I am not taking the neighbors side, just trying to give a little perspective. It helps if we understand where our enemies are coming from.

I understand that and that is propably exactly what is going on. But if I was the neighbor and this happened I think I would suck it up. I'm guessing the easement was put in place a long time ago when the neighbor didn't own a property that borders the field, in other words I would guess the field was landlocked when the house properties were sold off. So they granted an easment threw PTschram's property(the previous owner of his property). But then this neighbor ended up buying his home property and also the field, which border. So the easement isn't needed anymore. The neighbor can simply drive threw his own yard into the field.

If I was the neighbor and realised the easement paper work was bad I would just start driving threw my own property into the field and call it a day. Even if I had an easement that was solid, if my property bordered the field I needed to get to I would just use my own property. Why in the heck would I drive down the road and across my neighbors property when I can just go across my own property? It just doesn't make sense to me. My guess is he is just being stubbern and has nothing better to do than fight this hoping PTschram just gives up.

James E
10-12-2012, 12:50 PM
If it's not on your current plat, then (you will have to consult an attorney on this) the easement could have been relinquished some time ago. Easements come and go... When a utility or individual no longer needs the access the easement is terminated... So it would make sense if it would appear on something 60 years ago, but nothing today...

Depending on the jurisdiction, municipal easements can be handled differently than easements granted by, for and between property owners. Check with a real estate attorney before you assume a muni easement has been cancelled.

The fact that a municipal easement was not recorded on subsequent deeds may not matter to the municipality. Munis often have the right to get easements in perpetuity and it's not their responsibility to make sure that those easements are passed along through decades-worth of title changes or to even communicate those easements to property owners.

The first notice you may get of a muni easement could be them showing up on your property and tearing stuff up and you'll have little recourse when they rip out a fence or bulldoze an outbuilding.

checkthisout
10-12-2012, 01:18 PM
It seems as though if it's not on the current title, then it's no longer valid even if it was on there at some point.

It could be argued as prescriptive especially since it was in writing even though it wasn't recorded properly.

If it goes to court the OP will lose and the neighbor will get his easement back.

Shocker
10-14-2012, 02:18 AM
It might be different here in WA state.

A utility easement granted can be vacated my all property owners if there is no use for it and there is no dispute by the utility.

Otherwise it will continue on.

In my case, the easement was recorded on the original platting document and never again. It DID NOT appear with a standard title search. Even spending time with city and county folks searching various maps, titles and documents didn't yield anything.

I finally found a blurry old photocopy of the 1947 platting with the easement recorded on it. I was then able to place my shop properly on my lot.

Funny thing is that the city knew there was an easement, but they had no idea of the particulars. It was up to me to shag those flys.

01ssreda4
10-14-2012, 06:01 AM
So now you see it as your responsibility to be the neighborhood narc? Yeah that should end well for you.

Agreed. EOC sounds like a snitch.

larry_g
10-14-2012, 06:02 PM
Why in the heck would I drive down the road and across my neighbors property when I can just go across my own property? It just doesn't make sense to me. My guess is he is just being stubbern and has nothing better to do than fight this hoping PTschram just gives up.

I can fully understand why the neighbor would want to maintain the easement. If like said the field was land locked without an easement through pts' land then the field is accessible and worth much more with an easement than a landlocked field. The neighbor needs to maintain the easement if he ever wants to sell the field separately from the home place. If he loses the easement, then to sell the field he will have to give up an easement through the home place, making the home place less valuable. The easement is worth fighting for even if he doesn't need it today.

lg
no neat sig line

ptschram
10-18-2012, 06:12 AM
It could be argued as prescriptive especially since it was in writing even though it wasn't recorded properly.

If it goes to court the OP will lose and the neighbor will get his easement back.

My main argument is that Indiana State law indicates that an easement without clearly defined dominant and subservient parties cannot extend into perpetuity.

In this case, there is no indication as to for whom the easement is to benefit. As my attorney has said, if they rule that there is an easement, it is a public easement that grants the public access through my yard to his field.

The other point of argument is that we're in Indiana which has a "right-to-farm" law and we're zoned agricultural. I want to put a pig or two on the disputed parcel and fence it in. Maybe an Emu as well (I've always thought they were cool). Better yet a MEAN bull. Sure, you can cross that plot of land, watch out for Bruno!

checkthisout
10-18-2012, 06:36 AM
My main argument is that Indiana State law indicates that an easement without clearly defined dominant and subservient parties cannot extend into perpetuity.

In this case, there is no indication as to for whom the easement is to benefit. As my attorney has said, if they rule that there is an easement, it is a public easement that grants the public access through my yard to his field.

The other point of argument is that we're in Indiana which has a "right-to-farm" law and we're zoned agricultural. I want to put a pig or two on the disputed parcel and fence it in. Maybe an Emu as well (I've always thought they were cool). Better yet a MEAN bull. Sure, you can cross that plot of land, watch out for Bruno!

It looks like 20 years of continuous use is required in Indiana in order for the easement to become prescriptive.

How long was the neighbor using the easement before you blocked him?

So to summarize, the easement was properly recorded, the neighbor has been using the easement but you're hoping to get out of having to honor it based on what your lawyer believes is a technical error in the paperwork.

Right?

Not taking sides here, just curious.



And also, what I would really like answered, why doesn't he use the driveway that runs the past on the left in the picture? Why don't you help him acquire easement on the neighbor's drive? What is preventing him from doing this? Using the already existing gravel driveway makes the most sense.

ptschram
10-18-2012, 07:04 AM
I just read in the paper where the neighbor's wife died Tuesday.

I wonder if that will slow things down or accelerate them.

GirchyGirchy
10-18-2012, 07:51 AM
When the neighbor raised their property 5' (Yes, five FEET) above ours (and adjacent neighbors) right up to the property line, and also tried to drain off all his water onto our property... Yeah, things went downhill REAAAAAL quick...

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6232/rimshot.jpg

Mike007
10-18-2012, 08:09 AM
I just read in the paper where the neighbor's wife died Tuesday.

I wonder if that will slow things down or accelerate them.

Are you attending the wake? Sending flowers?

uniballer
10-18-2012, 08:14 AM
Are you attending the wake? Sending flowers?

I would, even if yall are having a pissin match, HIS WIFE DIED! :sad: :sad:

graffix000
10-18-2012, 08:22 AM
Are you attending the wake? Sending flowers?

This, would be a nice gesture. Hopefully, it might slow things down instead of speed things up with the extra time he will have on his hands now.

46Nash
10-18-2012, 09:18 AM
I had an issue like this with my neighbor. Moved into my house 5 years ago, never got a survey during the purchase process (mistake). On final walk through, the PO showed me where he thought the property lines were.

Fast forward 2 years, and I found out the town made a mistake recording ownership of my properties, and actually marked me as the owner of another neighbor's parcel down the hill on our lake. I did own lake property too but my land had multiple lots so it took me a while to figure it out.

Anyway, this experience prompted to me to get surverys to know exactly what was mine. Turns out, on my main lot where my house is, the neighbor had not known where the line was and built a driveway extension across my property. Also turned out that he had been mowing a rather large chunk of land which he thought was his but was actually mine.

Anyway, before I could get home to see the survey, I get a call from my wife that he is at the front door being very rude and accusing our surveyor of lying about the line etc. Frankly, I didnt give a crap about his driveway, but I did care that he was rude to my wife. Odd thing is we got along very well with them before this.

So I go down to talk to him, and he starts in about how my surveyor is lying. I counter politely with what reason would be have to lie? He told me he was worried about his driveway and I told him he could have whatever easement or what was needed and I didnt care. But he wouldnt stop talking about the surveyor being a liar.

So we pull out his original survey for his house from his files. There is a measured line from the corner of his house to the property line on the survey. We did the exact measurement from his house to the line my surveyor marked and it was perfect to his original survey. I also offered to show him the original steel pin stamped by the surveryor who marked his original survey at the back of the property and he declined.

He then goes and says he is going to put a stake where he thinks the line is. I tell him he is not a professional surveyor and I did not want him to do it, but he does anyway. I tell him to get his own survey done if he feels mine is in error. We both leave, but I take his stake and throw it away.

Next day I come and find the stake my surveryor put in gone. Now I am pissed and I go down there and tell him be better put my f^ckin stake back or we are gong to have problems. The stake goes back up and I never hear anything again.

Next spring there he is mowing my lawn down there. So I walk down there and tell him to stop mowing my lawn. At about the same time, my brother shows up, who is a cop and weightlifter, and I guess seeing both of us really spooked him and he never mowed there again either.

Fortunately, there has been no other retribution by him, other than ignoring me when him and his wife drive by. I am now building a garage next to his property and fully expected hell from him, but he has been quiet. I have all my permits and surveys proper though, so there is really nothing he can say. If he does act up I will make him remove his driveway, so perhaps that is why he is not messing with me.

The thing for me was that I wanted to work with him, but he was just being too much of an ass and I just got tired of it. He could have had everything legal but now there is no way I'll comply.

Mike007
10-18-2012, 10:08 AM
This, would be a nice gesture. Hopefully, it might slow things down instead of speed things up with the extra time he will have on his hands now.


I posted that in jest. :D

The thing for me was that I wanted to work with him, but he was just being too much of an ass and I just got tired of it. He could have had everything legal but now there is no way I'll comply.

And there in lies the problem. Some people do not know how to act neighborly.

theoldwizard1
10-18-2012, 10:18 AM
... accusing our surveyor of lying about the line etc.
Aren't surveyor licensed by the county/state ? I would have told him to file a complaint there ... and then shut the door.

I would also call the surveyor and tell him he was being slandered by your neighbor !

theoldwizard1
10-18-2012, 10:21 AM
I just read in the paper where the neighbor's wife died Tuesday.
Flowers would be a nice gesture.

I wonder if that will slow things down or accelerate them.

It will be quiet for awhile, but I can almost guarantee you that things will get noisy in the future !

46Nash
10-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Yes the surveyor is licensed etc. I basically felt that the neighbor was accusing me of trying to steal his property.

I did tell the surveyor what was up, and the neighber did in fact call him I found out recently when I called the surveyor back to place my garage. Told me that he had put the neighbor in his place.

graffix000
10-18-2012, 01:52 PM
I posted that in jest. :D



I didn't. It might actually help calm things down a little bit showing the OP is human. Probably not, but for the little amount that flowers cost, why not. His situation is just shitty and will eventually cost money to correct.

Mike007
10-18-2012, 02:10 PM
I didn't. It might actually help calm things down a little bit showing the OP is human. Probably not, but for the little amount that flowers cost, why not. His situation is just shitty and will eventually cost money to correct.

Anything is possible, but I'd bet nothing you can do will change someone like this neighbor. I wouldn't be surprised if any gesture would just make the situation worse.

signcrafter
10-18-2012, 04:54 PM
After the neighbor is done greiving one of two things will happen. He will either see that life is to short to fight over this stuff or he will get bored at home without his wife and fight even harder just to fill his time

jhelrey
10-18-2012, 05:42 PM
Or he could have been a dick before because his wife was dying...

cglasgow
10-18-2012, 05:45 PM
This, would be a nice gesture. Hopefully, it might slow things down instead of speed things up with the extra time he will have on his hands now.

+1. The man's wife died. The neighbor may be a total dick, but that doesn't mean the OP can't be a mature adult about it. I'd say send flowers with a sincere note of condolence.

Big-Foot
10-18-2012, 05:50 PM
I just read in the paper where the neighbor's wife died Tuesday.

I wonder if that will slow things down or accelerate them.

Sometimes its best to put our differences aside and recognize each other as fellow human beings... I'd send flowers and attend the wake - if or no other reason than to show him that you care...

Come Monday, it may be just a new week or it may be a whole new ball game..

EOC_Jason
10-18-2012, 08:05 PM
I would send flowers or offer to help him out while he sorts everything out. Loosing someone really does change your outlook on life.

As for the other person with the surveyor that got accused of lying... I'm sure they get that all the time... They are kind of like repo men, they are just doing their job. Our crazy neighbor pulled up surveyor stakes too and tried to lay down his own "fake" line (problem was it was hella-crooked)... Once we got the surveyors back out we took pictures before they even left our property and then immediately dug around them and sunk them in concrete (top still exposed) so they wouldn't be going anywhere!

NastyNate
10-18-2012, 08:15 PM
Holy fuck. I have watched this for a while and sided with the OP from seeing his point of view. Differences many never be resolved.....

Some of these post make me feel like some of you would punch a kid in a cancer ward if it benefited you in any way.

pop pop
10-18-2012, 09:14 PM
Flowers and neighborleness may not work at all, but it isn't about him. It's more about who you are.

Foxxtrot
10-18-2012, 09:15 PM
Holy fuck. I have watched this for a while and sided with the OP from seeing his point of view. Differences many never be resolved.....

Some of these post make me feel like some of you would punch a kid in a cancer ward if it benefited you in any way.

:spit:
I was starting to think the same way! I just read all of this from start to finish, and I was thinking WTH??, some of these people are too much!

I have had good and bad neighbors over the years. My newest neighbor moved in about a month ago. He installed a split-rail fence between our back yards (which is fine by me) but had to cut some branches off his trees when he did it. At this point the pile of branches has been on my lawn for about a month. Then this past week, he added about 4 sections of 6' wood privacy fence closest to our houses. This required cutting another large branch, which he also dropped and left in my yard. Yesterday I saw him in his back yard and hollered Howdy to him, and then asked him about the branches. His response was that he has been really busy, and that is going to take him a full day to deal with and he hasn't had time. (In the last month). Then he starts asking me about my partially finished shed and some of the stuff I have in MY yard. :lol: I pointed out politely that I too have been busy, but all my stuff is in my yard, I haven't left anything in anybody else's yard. I can already see how this neighbor is going to be.......

cglasgow
10-18-2012, 09:22 PM
Flowers and neighborleness may not work at all, but it isn't about him. It's more about who you are.

Well said!

ptschram
10-19-2012, 06:10 AM
Are you attending the wake? Sending flowers?

I sent a card when he had his heart attack and she started Chemo.

All it got me was having the cops show up on the front porch and more ltters and pictures to the building department.

There is no way I will attend this wake.

ptschram
10-28-2012, 09:08 AM
The fire dept showed up day before yesterday to tell him he couldn't burn his leave in the field across his home and leave once there were ablaze.

No, I didn't call, but I was on my way over to put the fire out when he finally came home.

He has only gotten weirder and more unpredictable since his wife died.

btbsandman
10-30-2012, 10:20 PM
The fire dept showed up day before yesterday to tell him he couldn't burn his leave in the field across his home and leave once there were ablaze.

No, I didn't call, but I was on my way over to put the fire out when he finally came home.

He has only gotten weirder and more unpredictable since his wife died.

You have a chance to get him insitutionalized now!

Defender Chassis
01-17-2013, 11:16 PM
Update?

ptschram
02-24-2013, 12:58 PM
Update indeed.

Back in November, he finally filed suit against us. Slightly more than a year after I demanded proof of the easement having been formalized.

Friday, we received the most recent response from our attorney to his attorney and the court. Basically in a nutshell after another exhaustive (and expensive) search of the county recorder's office, there is no proof of a formal easement having been defined, his claim of my trespassing on my own land is being laughed out of court as apparently, Indiana law does not provide for such a charge, our survey has held up, he has paid for another survey that basically mirrored ours, and we are finally counter-suing for damages, embarrassment (having had the police to the house four or five times for trespassing on my own land), a restraining order prohibiting him from spying on us or coming with 50 feet of any of us, and a quiet title claim to formally state that there is not an easement and never was, he just bullied everyone into thinking the was one.

One point that bears emphasizing is his claim that he has been unable to farm his field because of my blocking access. Somehow, I had the presence of mind to extensively photograph his farming activities where they move the machinery through adjacent fields or my neighbor's lane as he has stated on many occasions that my yard is not suited for such heavy loads! The attorney wrote two paragraphs about how silly this claim was!

While I'd like to think that this is a done deal, I recognize that the court system is a murky grey area at best and one can expect only one outcome and be surprised to find that the Court sees things from a completely different perspective.

Big-Foot
02-24-2013, 02:02 PM
I think I would be getting prepared to launch a counter suit to recover all of my attorney fees as well as $100 per hour for my own time that he wasted. Maybe that would Force him to sell off some of his land and if that land were adjacent to mine, I would buy it with his own money just to rub his nose in it... The old fool needs a good legal ass kickin' in my opinion....

PhantomEB
02-24-2013, 02:53 PM
Its shit like this that makes me WANT my property lines as well Fence lines clearly defined before I buy the damn house. 6 foot tall fences, trees galore. I dont want to see my neighbours much less them knowing my business. Other than that I fully intend to keep my yard spic and span so no complaints about any planned garage goin up will be affected. Its great to know the city code to heart.

Tarheelgarage
02-24-2013, 05:39 PM
Update indeed.

Back in November, he finally filed suit against us. Slightly more than a year after I demanded proof of the easement having been formalized.

Friday, we received the most recent response from our attorney to his attorney and the court. Basically in a nutshell after another exhaustive (and expensive) search of the county recorder's office, there is no proof of a formal easement having been defined, his claim of my trespassing on my own land is being laughed out of court as apparently, Indiana law does not provide for such a charge, our survey has held up, he has paid for another survey that basically mirrored ours, and we are finally counter-suing for damages, embarrassment (having had the police to the house four or five times for trespassing on my own land), a restraining order prohibiting him from spying on us or coming with 50 feet of any of us, and a quiet title claim to formally state that there is not an easement and never was, he just bullied everyone into thinking the was one.

One point that bears emphasizing is his claim that he has been unable to farm his field because of my blocking access. Somehow, I had the presence of mind to extensively photograph his farming activities where they move the machinery through adjacent fields or my neighbor's lane as he has stated on many occasions that my yard is not suited for such heavy loads! The attorney wrote two paragraphs about how silly this claim was!

While I'd like to think that this is a done deal, I recognize that the court system is a murky grey area at best and one can expect only one outcome and be surprised to find that the Court sees things from a completely different perspective.

Daym, all that drama and no one got a bullet hole or a least cut up with a hawk billed knife? Shit, no old fashion ass whoppin' either?

World's getting too soft for me anymore....:lol:

ptschram
02-24-2013, 05:59 PM
Daym, all that drama and no one got a bullet hole or a least cut up with a hawk billed knife? Shit, no old fashion ass whoppin' either?

World's getting too soft for me anymore....:lol:

Most of the folks in town can't believe the neighbor is still alive given my past reputation. I'm trying to embrace PT V2.0 and just let it roll of my back, like a duck!


It is no surprise to me that the neighbor hasn't confronted me since tool to open-carry in the yard EVERY time I step foot outside.

Kick my dog, spy on me, send the cops to my house, sic the building/zoning folks on me and then hide? WTF???

If he was the man he wants everyone to think he is, he'd confront me and run the risk of getting what he deserves.

That said, I'm hoping, but not confident the Court will agree with us. Anyone who's gone to court knows why I say such things. But, I have faith in "The System".

JerseyBoatBuilder
02-24-2013, 06:04 PM
Good to see you are winning so far

Kevin54
02-25-2013, 06:29 AM
Update indeed.

Back in November, he finally filed suit against us. Slightly more than a year after I demanded proof of the easement having been formalized.

Friday, we received the most recent response from our attorney to his attorney and the court. Basically in a nutshell after another exhaustive (and expensive) search of the county recorder's office, there is no proof of a formal easement having been defined, his claim of my trespassing on my own land is being laughed out of court as apparently, Indiana law does not provide for such a charge, our survey has held up, he has paid for another survey that basically mirrored ours, and we are finally counter-suing for damages, embarrassment (having had the police to the house four or five times for trespassing on my own land), a restraining order prohibiting him from spying on us or coming with 50 feet of any of us, and a quiet title claim to formally state that there is not an easement and never was, he just bullied everyone into thinking the was one.

One point that bears emphasizing is his claim that he has been unable to farm his field because of my blocking access. Somehow, I had the presence of mind to extensively photograph his farming activities where they move the machinery through adjacent fields or my neighbor's lane as he has stated on many occasions that my yard is not suited for such heavy loads! The attorney wrote two paragraphs about how silly this claim was!

While I'd like to think that this is a done deal, I recognize that the court system is a murky grey area at best and one can expect only one outcome and be surprised to find that the Court sees things from a completely different perspective.

In one of the satellite shots from a while back that was posted, doesn't his farm run right up behind his property? At least that's the way I took it. And if it does, why doesn't he go through his own property?

Kevin54
02-25-2013, 06:37 AM
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc353/shadowdog500/9741a8ef.jpg

This is the picture I was talking about and I think you made mention that he could drive through his own property. (the right hand bright green arrow)

It sounds to me like he is that type that is pissed just because he has neighbors and he can't get his own way. Almost every farming community in every county has at least one that is off their nut a little. We had one in my hometown that lost his license to drive, so he drove his big ass JD into town and basically pissed everyone off because he knew he could. He then go into a dispute with his neighbor over a fence row, and went out one day and pulled probably a mile or so of fence up because he said it was on his property. And he was one of those guys that would never spend a dime on anything other than his tractor. Lived in a run down house, wore the same clothes week after week. When he passed away he was worth almost 2 million dollars. Go figure!!!

NHBandit
02-25-2013, 07:18 AM
All I have to say is that I wouldn't want either one of you for a neighbor. What a screwed up mess. Here is a pic of my neighbors... The man who owns the property also owns an auto body shop in a nearby town and is a local County Comissioner. When I mentioned the other day that I had a new lift coming for the garage I'm having built he said "when you know what time it's coming call me". I did and he had one of his guys show up here with a rollback car carrier to help unload the lift and move it to where my garage is going. Wouldn't let me give the guy any money. Said we'll make it up sometime when he needs a favor.

byoungblood
02-25-2013, 10:10 AM
All I have to say is that I wouldn't want either one of you for a neighbor. What a screwed up mess. Here is a pic of my neighbors... The man who owns the property also owns an auto body shop in a nearby town and is a local County Comissioner. When I mentioned the other day that I had a new lift coming for the garage I'm having built he said "when you know what time it's coming call me". I did and he had one of his guys show up here with a rollback car carrier to help unload the lift and move it to where my garage is going. Wouldn't let me give the guy any money. Said we'll make it up sometime when he needs a favor.

I'm all for being neighborly, but this "neighbor" has absolutely no need for that alleged easement except to avoid devaluing his own property if he chooses to sell off the agricultural lot. If the OP doesn't protect his right to the property, then he can lose possession of the land. I don't see him being an ass for protecting his propery rights.

If he wanted to PAY for a gravel or paved driveway across the property to avoid tearing up my lawn, I'd probably grant it, but it would only survive as long as he lives or owns the property.

darkk
02-25-2013, 10:51 AM
My old man always said, don't matter who says what, what's mine is mine.

bcook07
02-25-2013, 10:54 AM
All I have to say is that I wouldn't want either one of you for a neighbor. What a screwed up mess. Here is a pic of my neighbors... The man who owns the property also owns an auto body shop in a nearby town and is a local County Comissioner. When I mentioned the other day that I had a new lift coming for the garage I'm having built he said "when you know what time it's coming call me". I did and he had one of his guys show up here with a rollback car carrier to help unload the lift and move it to where my garage is going. Wouldn't let me give the guy any money. Said we'll make it up sometime when he needs a favor.

I have had both experiences (not to this extent) I would not mind the o/p as a neighbor because it seems to me like if you respect his space, he will respect yours.

ducksface
02-25-2013, 11:00 AM
Nothing personal but with property your old man is wrong.
eminent domain.
anti-landlock laws
Notorious usage
tax and code enforcement.

The thing you own the least is your real estate.

I don't know the notorious use laws in your state, but I've been involved in some whacking from both sides of the fence.

The last one I was only slightly involved in.
We gave them permission to use [no longer notorious] and took away that right within the same hour. Now safe again for another 7 years if the owner doesn't catch them in use.

spclk
02-25-2013, 11:44 AM
All I have to say is that I wouldn't want either one of you for a neighbor. What a screwed up mess. Here is a pic of my neighbors... The man who owns the property also owns an auto body shop in a nearby town and is a local County Comissioner. When I mentioned the other day that I had a new lift coming for the garage I'm having built he said "when you know what time it's coming call me". I did and he had one of his guys show up here with a rollback car carrier to help unload the lift and move it to where my garage is going. Wouldn't let me give the guy any money. Said we'll make it up sometime when he needs a favor.

I'd take PT V2.0 :) as a neighbor any day. He only wants what is his to stay his. Seems like we'd both get along fine.

Kevin54
02-25-2013, 12:27 PM
All I have to say is that I wouldn't want either one of you for a neighbor. What a screwed up mess. Here is a pic of my neighbors... The man who owns the property also owns an auto body shop in a nearby town and is a local County Comissioner. When I mentioned the other day that I had a new lift coming for the garage I'm having built he said "when you know what time it's coming call me". I did and he had one of his guys show up here with a rollback car carrier to help unload the lift and move it to where my garage is going. Wouldn't let me give the guy any money. Said we'll make it up sometime when he needs a favor.

That's the kind of neighbor I have to one side of me, to the other side, they are related to my wife in some sort of way, but they stay to theirself and we stay to ourself. We speak if each is out at the same time. But for the most part everyone respects each other in the 'hood.

The pasture, or now lawn, beside me, I mow every week. In return, I can use the property any time to have big trucks come in if need be. Last year, I had maybe 40 tandem axle dump trucks coming in and out to fill in the pond. The lady that owns the property is a great person and a hard worker. If she needs something, she will call. If she doesn't see the wife or me out she will call to see how things are. Or if I know she is gone and her son is gone, we keep an eye out for any strange vehicles going back her drive. I have to say she's one of the best neighbors we have ever had. I wish all was like her.

I wouldn't mind having ptschram one bit as a neighbor. He doesn't want people running through his property and the neighbors should respect that. I had a couple of dickheaded neighbors like he has although not to that extent. The first house my wife and I bought together, the day we got the keys we went to the house. Within 5 minutes there was a knock on the door from the neighbor woman. Without saying hello, or anything, the first thing out of her mouth was telling us where the property line was. Their house was higher up than ours and had a railroad tie wall between them and us maybe 4' tall. She informed us that their property line was one foot over on our side of the wall. We stopped at the house the next day after work and there was flags out where the property was surveyed earlier in the day. Here she comes again reminding us where the property line was. One day we come home from work and there were flowers and mulch planted at the base of the wall. Now this wall was maybe 30' long and she owned 12". We lived there for two years and she was just a pain in our ass. The flowers never did survive though, I saw to that. :D

BellyUpFish
02-25-2013, 03:53 PM
Wow. Good read.

BellyUpFish
02-25-2013, 03:59 PM
Wow. Good read.

papabil
02-25-2013, 05:57 PM
X2!.

ptschram
02-26-2013, 06:32 AM
Fellas-for those who may be critical of me-and I know this is the internet where differing opinions abound on EVERY topic. let's keep in mind that when we were moving in, the neighbor began asserting his claimed rights before introducing himself.

I offered machine shop services to him when I discovered he was a big truck puller. I offered welding services, I offered to help cut down trees that fell in a windstorm. I took his dog home when it wandered over. I tried and tried to befirend a neighbor I expect to live beside for the rest of my life and certainly his.

That said, I readily admit that my trucks do get out of hand once in awhile, but those of you with teenage children know that the yard/driveway fills up with all manner of their friends' cars at all hours of the day. If my son were still in high school, the traffic level and vehicle count would be FAR higher than what it has been.

I do have partially disassembled vehicles behind my barn and in the back yard, but if you look at the aerial views of the surroundings, I am consistent with local standards, and perhaps better as my "Junk" gets moved as it is either client's vehicles or project vehicles.

I also admit that my wife will not check to see what hazards might exist when the dogs begin barking and she did let them out once when the neighbor and I were talking in his field and our dogs did embarrass his.

What I don't do is spy on my neighbor from their own land claiming a RIGHT to do so. I do not trespass on yet another neighbor's property to spy on my neighbor and I sure as Hell never went behind a fence to shield me from viewing my neighbor's real property to take spy pics to show what a bad person my neighbor is, and finally, I have NEVER gotten up in front of a local government entity and told the PUBLIC what HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE people my neighbors are.

In very few disputes does the fault lie solely with a single entity and this is not one of those as I admit I am not perfect (the last guy that was got hung up on a cross) but I merely wish to be left alone, to protect my property and quiet enjoyment.

edit-when we had coyote problems, I invited him to come over and we'd sit behind the house and call them in. When he told me he didn't own a gun, I grinned and told him I had that covered.

One day when there was a loud crashing noise, we called to make sure everyone was OK-this was after I began to suspect I was persona non grata at his house but I still called. I did NOT call the fire department when he started the leaf fire and abandoned it, I merely set off to extinguish it to protect everyone's property, but the fire dept got there first. I have gravel hauled into my neighbor's drive where I am permitted if not encouraged to drive on, I clean out their drainage tile under their driveway and if I'm home I put their recycling bin away for them.

I really looked forward to having kind county neighbors. What I got was worse than I'd ever seen living in a city. HOAs aren't as bad as this guy.

BellyUpFish
02-26-2013, 07:35 AM
I think you're neighbor sounds like a kook.

I'm sure, unintentionally, both sides have escalated the situation.

When he attacked your son, all bets would have been off.

b-body-bob
02-26-2013, 07:39 AM
All I have to say is that I wouldn't want either one of you for a neighbor. What a screwed up mess. Here is a pic of my neighbors... The man who owns the property also owns an auto body shop in a nearby town and is a local County Comissioner. When I mentioned the other day that I had a new lift coming for the garage I'm having built he said "when you know what time it's coming call me". I did and he had one of his guys show up here with a rollback car carrier to help unload the lift and move it to where my garage is going. Wouldn't let me give the guy any money. Said we'll make it up sometime when he needs a favor.

Living in an area of 3/4 to one acre lots where the owners are starting to get old and die off, I can assure you of one thing - good situations can change. All you can do is brace yourself. Sniping at the OP not wanting him as a neighbor is a sure way to invite Karma to bring you someone worse.

ptschram
03-01-2013, 06:40 AM
Next week we begin offers to compromise.

I am suggesting the neighbor buy our property for $500,000, or he sells us the ten acres behind us for $27,500.

Yeah, shooting for the moon selling and low-balling buying, but it will illustrate that we are willing to either give him what he wants (for NO ONE to live next door), or put him in a position where he no longer needs to traverse our yard to access his property.

If he buys, the sale will be contingent upon his either breaking off the supposed easement and deeding it to the ten acres (in effect formalizing it as a flag-lot), of if we end up with the ten acre field, we will extinguish the subdivision so it's back to one big parcel.

Regardless of what he may decide, we will appear to the Court as though we are willing to make some concessions, or buy him out, either of which is certainly more conciliatory than his actions toward us.

I'm really, really hoping we get the field, my wife wants to move. If we get enough to pay off the house and buy something elsewhere, I'll tag along:-) But, I must have a big shop space!

theoldwizard1
03-01-2013, 07:09 AM
If he buys, the sale will be contingent upon his either breaking off the supposed easement and deeding it to the ten acres (in effect formalizing it as a flag-lot), of if we end up with the ten acre field, we will extinguish the subdivision so it's back to one big parcel.

What is a "flag-lot" and how can he deed something that does not exist (legally) ?

Regardless of what he may decide, we will appear to the Court as though we are willing to make some concessions, or buy him out, either of which is certainly more conciliatory than his actions toward us.

So the case is still open in court ? Has the judge suggested you settle out of court ?

NHBandit
03-01-2013, 07:22 AM
Living in an area of 3/4 to one acre lots where the owners are starting to get old and die off, I can assure you of one thing - good situations can change. All you can do is brace yourself. Sniping at the OP not wanting him as a neighbor is a sure way to invite Karma to bring you someone worse. I had forgotten about this thread. I posted my comments prior to knowing ALL the facts and I apologise. I didn't know that the OP had reached out to the guy in the beginning. When I read that the OP was taking pictures and things of that nature it came across like they were both to blame. Poking at people in that way it's a sure bet that you're gonna get a response you won't be happy with. If you read my entire post you would know that I am the type to try to get along with my neighbors at all cost and that so far it's been working great for me. But I do realize that alot of guys here only read part of a story and then jump the gun. Like I did in this case. Again, my apologies to the OP. I hope it all works out for the best but they way it was heading wasn't looking good. I fully expected the next post on this subject to be from your wife letting us know you were either dead or in jail...

ptschram
03-01-2013, 08:09 AM
What is a "flag-lot" and how can he deed something that does not exist (legally) ?



So the case is still open in court ? Has the judge suggested you settle out of court ?

If he buys our lot, he can break off the "easement" and attach it to the field behind.

Flag-lot is a term for a lot behind one with a narrow strip for access, the access strip resembles a flagpole with the lot being the flag. Use your imagination :-).

Yes, it's all Lawyer Reindeer games right now. As for settling, The Court always prefers civil matters to be settled without Court intervention. Our attorneys have told us that if we wanted to try to wait him out it could be strung out as long as five years-if we really wanted to and were willing to pay the fees for such representation. I just want it over and done with, even if the decision is not in my favor.

James E
03-01-2013, 09:54 AM
Flag-lot is a term for a lot behind one with a narrow strip for access, the access strip resembles a flagpole with the lot being the flag. Use your imagination.

Also known as a "lollipop lot". Same thing, just more alliterative.

VWPORSCHEGT3
03-01-2013, 10:15 AM
looking forward to seeing how this resolves

theoldwizard1
03-01-2013, 10:36 AM
Our attorneys have told us that if we wanted to try to wait him out it could be strung out as long as five years-if we really wanted to and were willing to pay the fees for such representation.

As usual in civil cases, the lawyers win ! Inpatients will eat you inside out and cost you $$$ !


Friend's 90+ yo father-in-law was sued for divorce. Ex left town. After not showing up for the final signing twice, the third time the judge ordered payments to be sent to the "Friend of the Courts".

She tried to re-open the case because she was not getting any checks, but the new judge read the judgement and kicked her out.

The man died within a year. I don't know if she ever got any of the money.

Al Bundy
03-01-2013, 04:48 PM
Maybe I haven't following along closely enough, but why would you offer to settle? Not only would I go to court, I would file counter suit. He had the chance to show there was an easement and couldn't do it. End of story.

signcrafter
03-01-2013, 05:39 PM
Maybe I haven't following along closely enough, but why would you offer to settle? Not only would I go to court, I would file counter suit. He had the chance to show there was an easement and couldn't do it. End of story.

I don't think he is "settling". He sent a letter offering to buy the old guys ten acres for 27,500 bucks or selling his property to the old guy for half a million dollars. He said his offer to buy the ten acres was way low and the offer to sell his property was way high. Not really settling, just offering an option to end this that would favor him. The old guy most likely will not take the offer.

theoldwizard1
03-01-2013, 06:41 PM
Maybe I haven't following along closely enough, but why would you offer to settle? Not only would I go to court, I would file counter suit. He had the chance to show there was an easement and couldn't do it. End of story.

Actually, offering to buy/sell is a good thing. It might speed things up in court if the judge see that one party is trying to do something. While the prices maybe out of line, they are a starting point.

Points for the OP.

ptschram
03-11-2013, 06:40 AM
While none of this has been even remotely fun, it is getting at the very least, interesting.

Saturday morning, the neighbor's employer accosted me, asked if I was the new Snap-On guy and could I call on his shop. He further went onto inform me that my neighbor sometimes works for him and that I'll have to be there when he isn't there and he wants to stay out of it but knows one side of it.

As calmly as I could, I told the guy that his employee had punched my son and if he tried to do the same to me, I would kill him. Everyone in town now knows about the battery to my son, and everybody in town knows that I will retaliate if he tries such foolishness with me.

Now, keep in mind that I had already decided I didn't need this guy's business and now he's practically begging me to sell him tools...

We finished the conversation by agreeing that I would go n Saturdays and our relationship will be limited to my selling him tools!

We received a response from our attorneys Friday. Apparently, the Court does not wish to be involved very deeply as case law does not support my neighbor and that there may have been numerous actions on his parts that rose to the level of felony criminal acts-basically, he was trying to deprive me of the use of my land and when he called the cops to try to enforce his non-existent claim, he may have crossed a serious line.

As a result of the discovery of case law to such an effect, our next move will be to move for summary judgement, dismissal and charging the neighbor with filing frivolous lawsuits, making claims that are defamatory, perjury, payment of our attorney's fees, treble damages as punitive damages, AND a perpetual restraining order preventing him form basically even looking toward my yard/home/family/ businesses/vehicles.


Again, things can go horribly awry whenever the courts are involved, but it is looking better and better for our side!

b-body-bob
03-11-2013, 07:09 AM
As calmly as I could, I told the guy that his employee had punched my son and if he tried to do the same to me, I would kill him.

Some things should not be said, and that was one of them. Look for that guy to end up as a witness against you.

redware
03-11-2013, 07:10 AM
Saturday morning, the neighbor's employer accosted me

It sounds more like he called you to conduct business. Was he threatening or belligerent?

oilfieldtrash4
03-11-2013, 07:14 AM
This guy is a trip.

ptschram
03-11-2013, 07:16 AM
Some things should not be said, and that was one of them. Look for that guy to end up as a witness against you.

The same statement was already made to the prosecutor when we were trying to get some traction over the original battery.

If you knew me in real life, you'd know that I make such statements and they are not threatening, nor hyperbolic, merely strong statements of fact.

I am an old testament guy and let everyone know that I will not be crossed.

jimzz2006
03-11-2013, 07:24 AM
How were you accosted by the employer? Did I miss a line somewhere?

b-body-bob
03-11-2013, 09:37 AM
If you knew me in real life, you'd know that I make such statements and they are not threatening, nor hyperbolic, merely strong statements of fact.

Well I take the same approach except I believe that it is better to do it when necessary than to talk about it when it's not.

Either way, good luck with the guy. Every time I revisit this post I picture him as looking just like old Joe across the street from me. He was too aggressive when he first moved in but we mellowed him out pretty quick the day he lit a pile of shingles and construction material on fire.

theoldwizard1
03-11-2013, 10:00 AM
As calmly as I could, I told the guy that his employee had punched my son and if he tried to do the same to me, I would kill him.
If any physical harm ever comes to that person, you will always be "a person of interest".

As a result of the discovery of case law to such an effect, our next move will be to move for summary judgement, dismissal and charging the neighbor with filing frivolous lawsuits, making claims that are defamatory, perjury, payment of our attorney's fees, treble damages as punitive damages, AND a perpetual restraining order preventing him form basically even looking toward my yard/home/family/ businesses/vehicles.

Again, things can go horribly awry whenever the courts are involved, but it is looking better and better for our side!
Yes, courts would prefer to not get involved in civil case like this.

Offering to buy him out or be bought out was a good move by your team ! I don't think you ave good odds of recovering any money from him.

In the end, this will not get fully resolved until one of you moves or dies.

Capt Chrysler
03-11-2013, 10:16 AM
"I would kill him."

Never ever say that to a 3rd party or post it on the net. I don't care what "book" you live by the court will bend you over and make YOU the new cheap date!

All this says is that you are as messed up as him. And if he comes up missing / hurt for some stuipd reason. Guess who has to prove they didn't do it???

Capt. Chrysler


PS: not me

emeraldcoupe
03-11-2013, 12:31 PM
And if he comes up missing / hurt for some stuipd reason. Guess who has to prove they didn't do it.

Capt. Chrysler


why would Capt. Chrysler have to prove he didn't do it? :lol_hitti

Lump
03-11-2013, 01:27 PM
Threats to kill someone are always a bad idea, in my opinion. If that threat is repeated to the other guy, who has a witness who claims he/she heard the threat said out loud, that "target" person may be able to easily obtain a restraining order.

Something similar to that happened to someone I know here in Ohio. It was a huge shock and personally devastating to him. The Sheriff Dept suddenly showed up at his house with a restraining order and seized all of his firearms, with no warning whatsoever. He was forbidden to drive past the other guys' home (forcing him to drive the long way to and from work every day), could not have any "weapons" in his possession at any time, had to leave a store or restaurant if the other guy happened to show up, etc. Eventually my friend prevailed in court when the other party could not prove their claims of having been threatened. So he eventually got his guns back. But it took him over a year, cost him a lost hunting season, lots of lawyer fees, and many embarrassing headaches for him and his wife. Moreover, this situation is STILL causing him trouble whenever he wants to buy a firearm, since his name once showed up on restraining-order list for a while.

In my opinion, these days it is not wise to make threats of bodily harm, even if you don't really mean it. I am not criticizing the OP or anyone else. But my friend's experience made a big impression on me, and I won't forget it.

williaty
03-12-2013, 12:10 AM
I didn't think it was possible, but ptschram's actions not directly related to the land dispute are almost enough to make me root for the other guy. I'm extremely glad I don't have either of them for neighbors.

Daniel Dudley
03-12-2013, 05:11 AM
Yeah, I would delete a couple of sentences.

BellyUpFish
03-12-2013, 05:40 AM
I hope you can sell your property. Like someone else said, this whole thing won't go away until someone moves or dies.

NHBandit
03-12-2013, 05:51 AM
I posted several pages ago that I was glad NEITHER of you is my neighbor and I got jumped for it. Here we are many days later and my mind hasn't changed. Just sayin... I finally met my next door neighbor while getting my mail yesterday. Apparantly him & his wife are gone alot and I rarely ever see them. Also their house is quite a way off from mine. Extremely nice guy with a Spanish accent. He points at his house & says "not my house" so I'm thinking maybe he's the gardener or something ? Hell if I know but it's an amazing log home built on top of a big hill. So I asked if he is not the man who lives there. His English is not the best. He explains... he didn't mean it's not his house. He meant his home is my home and we are welcome to come visit anytime. On the other 3 sides of me are 90 acres of pasture owned by a local body shop & towing company owner who lives several miles away. When my new 2 post lift was delivered he sent one of his rollback trucks over to unload it from the 53' trailer and drop it on my garage slab. I couldn't ask for better neighbors and I do my best to BE a good neighbor as well.

BellyUpFish
04-24-2013, 09:25 AM
So I have to ask... What's the latest update?

mmack66
04-24-2013, 10:03 AM
All I have to say is that I wouldn't want either one of you for a neighbor. What a screwed up mess. Here is a pic of my neighbors... The man who owns the property also owns an auto body shop in a nearby town and is a local County Comissioner. When I mentioned the other day that I had a new lift coming for the garage I'm having built he said "when you know what time it's coming call me". I did and he had one of his guys show up here with a rollback car carrier to help unload the lift and move it to where my garage is going. Wouldn't let me give the guy any money. Said we'll make it up sometime when he needs a favor.

Your neighbors look a lot like cows.

geologist
04-24-2013, 10:42 AM
Be careful with extending too much credit to his "employer", less he hang you out to dry with it.

theoldwizard1
06-13-2013, 08:52 AM
Any update ?

ptschram
06-19-2013, 06:12 PM
Well guys, things have been progressing through the court system.

Way too much "on line 32 of paragraph four of the counter-argument against the suit, against the counter suit, 'you are wrong'".

We have yet to schedule the depositions.

Last week, the neighbor was burning the ditch across the street from my home and when he saw me watching me responded by shaking a pitch fork at me stating "you wanna piece of me, c'mon!". I calmly called the police who responded instantly.

He put the fire out.

Late last week, I got a letter from the building department wanting me to confirm that all of the vehicles visible from the road belonged to me. I was very excited when I called and told them I thought I was in complete compliance.

I have pretty much shut down the repair side of my Land Rover business and don't have nearly as many vehicles around. Also, I paid my lawn guy to seed, weed, and feed the yard. It looks much nicer as well. We should have new shutters on the house in a few weeks and a new roof maybe in the fall.

theoldwizard1
06-19-2013, 06:46 PM
I have pretty much shut down the repair side of my Land Rover business and don't have nearly as many vehicles around. Also, I paid my lawn guy to seed, weed, and feed the yard. It looks much nicer as well. We should have new shutters on the house in a few weeks and a new roof maybe in the fall.

I'm glad to hear that you are trying to on with a "normal" life ! Things like this can eat you up from the inside out.

ptschram
06-19-2013, 08:08 PM
I'm glad to hear that you are trying to on with a "normal" life ! Things like this can eat you up from the inside out.

Not lettin' him rent space in my head.

I have better things to obsess upon:-)

hybred355
06-19-2013, 09:26 PM
I just read this whole story,but i got to have the REST of the story. Larry

ptschram
06-21-2013, 10:01 AM
Got a letter from the attorney yesterday...

My neighbor's attorney has not responded to requests for suitable dates for him to be deposed so we get to set the date/time.

The date/time/setting has been set, we're now waiting for the Court to issue the order directing him to the deposition. We will meet with the attorney soon to discuss the questions that will be asked during the deposition. I won't go into those as we don't want him to be completely prepared, let's just say we won't be asking questions we don't already know the answers to and all of the questions will be incriminating as our attorney doesn't really see how he can truthfully answer the questions in any other manner, given the responses his attorney has already provided us.

As I've said from the get-go, I don't really care how it turns out, I just want it done and over with-OK, I do hope it goes my way:thumbup:

EOC_Jason
06-21-2013, 10:26 AM
Is their attorney planning on having you do a deposition too?

ptschram
06-21-2013, 10:41 AM
Is their attorney planning on having you do a deposition too?

Given the fact that she hasn't responded to any of our communications for the last month or two, I can only assume she does not.

I am willing to be deposed as I come to the table with clean hands. Not to mention that I wonder what she would ask me that would expound upon our written responses-that and the fact that he has the burden of proof-what could I provide that would satisfy the requirement that he provide real proof of the existence of an easement? I wasn't a party to the original agreement, and that is what this is based upon-or rather the lack of such a document.

ptschram
07-06-2013, 10:13 AM
We received the discovery for the deposition Wednesday.

If receiving a 30 page interrogatory isn't intimidating, I don't know what is.

The funny thing about the whole situation is that what started with him being the plaintiff has now turned into his being the one who is being subjected to the greatest scrutiny and interrogation.

If he doesn't withdraw his lawsuit after being served with the interrogatory, I'm gonna be amazed. The questions that were asked can only serve to embarrass him and make him look a fool who filed a frivolous lawsuit because his bullying didn't work.

Kevin54
07-06-2013, 11:13 AM
If all things pan out, are you going to go after him for harassment or file a restraining order against him?

rslaback
07-06-2013, 11:24 AM
There is legal. There is right. Sometimes they are the same. Sometimes they are not.

EOC_Jason
07-06-2013, 11:35 AM
In Texas there is a law if someone sues you, you have a right do see the judge within like 45 days, and if he throws out the case (before anything starts), the person has to pay all your attorney fees, no exception...

They did that in hopes of cutting down on frivolous lawsuits, I don't think it has really had any effect since most people draw it out so much longer before finally settling...

ptschram
07-06-2013, 11:42 AM
If all things pan out, are you going to go after him for harassment or file a restraining order against him?

Lawsuit for malicious prosecution.

The restraining order will be filed right before the deposition most likely.

He has now taken to mowing his lawn behind us in such a fashion that instead of it taking three passes, it now takes him six thus increasing the amount of time he can stare at us.

Tarheelgarage
07-06-2013, 11:55 AM
All this pissin' and fightin' with neighbor shit...:wtf:

Only one smiling in all of this is the lawyers as they are lining their pockets with all your hard earned cash.

Whatever happend with neighbors talking over a cold beer and trying to work things out in a civil, peacefull manner...:headscrat

ptschram
07-06-2013, 01:05 PM
Whatever happend with neighbors talking over a cold beer and trying to work things out in a civil, peacefull manner...:headscrat

That ended when the neighbor punched my son twice.

I tried to befriend him. All it got me was his taking spy photos and complaining to the building department/zoning folks.

kornjulio
07-06-2013, 01:11 PM
All this pissin' and fightin' with neighbor shit...:wtf:

Only one smiling in all of this is the lawyers as they are lining their pockets with all your hard earned cash.

Whatever happend with neighbors talking over a cold beer and trying to work things out in a civil, peacefull manner...:headscrat

Sometimes it just doesn't work. Been there, done that.

RocketTR
07-06-2013, 01:18 PM
I love a good one-sided story. Too bad we can't hear the neighbor's side of the story as well. I'm sure it would be quite different.

ptschram
07-06-2013, 01:23 PM
It's public record.

RocketTR
07-06-2013, 01:25 PM
It's public record.

Public record doesn't give your neighbor's opinion of you. That's all I'm saying. I'm quite sure he'd have some stories to tell if he posted on this forum.

Tarheelgarage
07-06-2013, 02:29 PM
That ended when the neighbor punched my son twice.

I tried to befriend him. All it got me was his taking spy photos and complaining to the building department/zoning folks.

What did your son do to deserve that punchin'?

Rodhotz
07-06-2013, 02:58 PM
Public record doesn't give your neighbor's opinion of you. That's all I'm saying. I'm quite sure he'd have some stories to tell if he posted on this forum.

Why don't you go invite him? if you read through all the posts you can find out where he is and have at it.

caps
07-06-2013, 03:41 PM
What did your son do to deserve that punchin'?

Reading the thread before posting is helpful.

I hate tapatalk - but this was posted from it.

RocketTR
07-06-2013, 10:33 PM
Why don't you go invite him? if you read through all the posts you can find out where he is and have at it.

Seriously? Why don't you invite him? What makes you think I'd take the time/effort to get involved? Just because I made a comment that there is more than one side to a story? :headscrat

ptschram
07-07-2013, 08:36 AM
There is always more than one side to a story and as I once told an attorney friend of mine, in few disputes does the blame lie solely with a single party.

He doesn't like my having a bunch of vehicles at my home and I don't like him driving around stalking me and making life difficult and I decided to take action and now it has become stupidly expensive even though he has been told in legalese he doesn't have a leg to stand on and that was he thinks constitutes proof does not satisfy the law.

theoldwizard1
07-07-2013, 09:45 AM
You have come this far,

"STAY THE COURSE !"

(I probably didn't need to say that, but there are those of us out there who are quioetly behind you !)

Norcal
07-07-2013, 10:07 AM
I have said it before in these type of threads, (rotton neighbor), my neighbors are great, & for that am thankful.

Rodhotz
07-07-2013, 10:59 AM
Seriously? Why don't you invite him? What makes you think I'd take the time/effort to get involved? Just because I made a comment that there is more than one side to a story? :headscrat

It's not the comment you made it is how you made it, and your response to another poster. Makes it seem like you don't believe him. I take it you have never had a neighbor like his before.

SKAutomotive
07-07-2013, 11:24 AM
My parents dealt with a similar situation when they bought their land. Unbeknownst to them, the neighbor was also bidding on the land to build a house for their son, but my parents had the higher bid in obviously. From day one he began his games and asserting what was his, which we never encroached on. It went on for years, we always were sure he was in our woods at night spying on us and stuff.

Flash forward to when I was 16 (started when I was 5). I came home one night from working the school play as the technical advisor and I see someone in the woods. I pull out my hunting knife (I was 16 and stupid, deal with it, we all were 16 and stupid once) and ran into the woods, spooked him and he started running back for his property, I caught up to him easy, I am 16, in shape, he is 50 with a beer gut and tackle him and hold him down while my parents come out to see what the commotion is. They find me holding him to the ground and call the police.

He was actually foolish enough to file a complaint against me for assault in retaliation. Luckily, RI is a castle doctrine state and I was under no obligation to retreat. Hopefully it doesn't get to this point for you OP. The good news is, ever since that night, he has been too timid to even start with his stupid surveying games again and my parents haven't seen a repeat of the spying game.

ptschram
07-07-2013, 12:15 PM
You have come this far,

"STAY THE COURSE !"

(I probably didn't need to say that, but there are those of us out there who are quioetly behind you !)

Thank you.

I just returned from the grocery where I saw him for the first time in more than six years.

I suggested to my wife that now that he had the interrogatory in his hands, perhaps we should give him a second chance to withdraw his suit with prejudice. In a surprising show of support, she told me he'd had his chance and it was time to "Stay the course".

Good bad or indifferent, we're in for the long haul hoping for no more violence or threats thereof. If he strikes me, I'm prepared to raise the stakes and once again hope for support from the authorities.

ptschram
07-24-2013, 04:43 PM
This morning I received an email from the local building department with the minutes of last month's BZA meeting where the neighbor ranted and raved about my not being in compliance with my special zoning exception.

I had an inspired screed drafted but somehow I was logged out and lost it.

Anyway, the BZA folks seem to think I'm in compliance although they want the gate closed. OK, I'll close the gate. I suspect they are becoming tired of his antics and have at least tacitly sided with me.

He complained that I had more than the allowed one vehicle present in front of the barn that doesn't belong to me-which I don't. He complained that I don't close the gate-notwithstanding he is trespassing when he looks through the gate.

His deposition is scheduled for September 19 and for some reason, his attorney hasn't ordered me to be deposed-yet.

My attorney suggested that best-case, we'll be into this for perhaps another $10,000 in legal fees and it might be decided by April or May of next year.

Sadly, I was told the only way to resolve this issue was to move or outlive the neighbor.

Stay tuned

signcrafter
07-24-2013, 04:56 PM
Every time this thread comes back to the top I'm waiting for the update to say the neighbor had a heart attack.

BellyUpFish
07-24-2013, 05:02 PM
notwithstanding he is trespassing when he looks through the gate.

It's trespassing to look at someone elses house??

Ign
07-24-2013, 05:35 PM
It's trespassing to look at someone elses house??

Doubt it. I had a similar situation where neighbor actually took pics of stuff on my property. Only way she could have done it was to trepass. I think he's saying only way to have line of sight to the gate is to trespass.

Tarheelgarage
07-24-2013, 05:41 PM
Every time this thread comes back to the top I'm waiting for the update to say the neighbor had a heart attack.

Or ptschram has a bullet hole in himself....:scared:

theoldwizard1
07-24-2013, 08:35 PM
My attorney suggested that best-case, we'll be into this for perhaps another $10,000 in legal fees and it might be decided by April or May of next year.

Sadly, I was told the only way to resolve this issue was to move or outlive the neighbor.

Stay tuned

Unfortunately all of this is true.

Ign
07-24-2013, 08:55 PM
Unfortunately all of this is true.

Agreed. We finally moved to escape the crazy ass neighbor we used to live next to. HOWEVER, we truly had been looking at moving for a year prior to that, so she just helped seal the deal.

We moved to a more rural area with acreage and no line of sight to the house or shop, so people are less likely to complain. If people can SEE something, they'll complain about it, even if it's not affecting them in any way. Ignorance is bliss, or something like that.

STClurker
07-24-2013, 10:37 PM
can you sue him for all your legal fee's and time you have tied up into this? I know if it was me I'd be pissed to have 10k+ paid out because of a jackwagon

Junkman
07-24-2013, 10:51 PM
Depends on the state. Some states will allow the winner to go after the looser for the costs, and in some cases, the looser has to be the one that started the action. Even if you win, you never really win, because they will continue to give you grief no matter how much time goes by.

srmofo
07-24-2013, 11:28 PM
Depends on the state. Some states will allow the winner to go after the looser for the costs, and in some cases, the looser has to be the one that started the action. Even if you win, you never really win, because they will continue to give you grief no matter how much time goes by.

But how sweet would it be to put a lien against their property for unpaid legal fees. Might be a good way to gain some extra property when the old cook dies and his children have to deal with the property and the liens associated with it.

eborcim
07-25-2013, 12:53 AM
10K in legal fees over BS. whew

Daedalus
07-25-2013, 02:38 AM
Will insurance cover it? A coworker got into a property line dispute with a neighbor. Their umbrella policy covered the legal costs. Guess they really were in good hands with Allstate.

Kevin54
07-25-2013, 04:51 AM
That's what I hate about lawyers. For one, it's mostly a dog and pony show to see which lawyer is the best one and shines in front of a judge, and for another they just keep dragging shit out forever. And you're too far into it just to throw in the towel.

For the most part, ptschrams lawyer and the other old farts lawyer pretty much has to have all the info there is to offer, so why can't they settle it? The longer it goes on, the more money in the lawyers pocket. And lawyers wonder why they are not very well liked. A lawyer's just about like a pain in the ass wife. You can't live with 'em, and you can't do without 'em

I just looked and the first post about this was on 07/01/12. If it goes on until next year, that's two years. Murder trials don't take that long :wtf:

I know if I were in ptschrams shoes, when this is over, I'd make that old bastards life hell from that point forward. I'd make noise, I'd be rattling and pounding on kitchen pans at 1:00 in the morning, run an air chisel on a 55 gallon drum just to keep the sumbitch from sleeping :rocker:

ptschram
07-25-2013, 06:35 AM
The sheriff was here again last night

Apparently the neighbor doesn't like my shooting

The sheriffs left with Snap-On t-shirts and pocket screwdrivers

I closed the gate :-)

JCQuick
07-25-2013, 07:52 AM
the sheriff was here again last night

apparently the neighbor doesn't like my shooting

the sheriffs left with snap-on t-shirts and pocket screwdrivers

i closed the gate :-)

:d love it

nit2wn
07-25-2013, 07:54 AM
I'd invite the sheriff back over for some friendly target practicing, maybe even offer to tune up that slow patrol car. I'm sure your neighbor would enjoy that.

Tarheelgarage
07-25-2013, 07:56 AM
The sheriff was here again last night

Apparently the neighbor doesn't like my shooting

The sheriffs left with Snap-On t-shirts and pocket screwdrivers

I closed the gate :-)

Who called the sheriff?


So you have now resorted to bribbing the sheriffs?

rancherbill
07-25-2013, 10:07 AM
The sheriffs left with Snap-On t-shirts and pocket screwdrivers

I'm a Sheriff.http://www.comfort-carriers.com/attachments/Image/Badges___Emblems/Sheriff_Badge.jpg I wear XL or XXL depending on how tight they fit. I'll PM my address. :):)

This saga is riveting. I've followed the up and downs of this thread and have had various opinions through out the whole saga. The one thing I am sure of is that your neighbor has mental health issues. It will never end until the guy gets some kind of treatment. Hopefully somebody neutral, friends or family, will talk with this guy and give him an arms length view of the situation or get him some counseling.

EOC_Jason
07-25-2013, 10:18 AM
I just looked and the first post about this was on 07/01/12. If it goes on until next year, that's two years. Murder trials don't take that long :wtf:

Because criminals have a right to a speedy trial. Civil litigation can drag on for as long as people keep throwing money at the lawyers.

Chaznsc
07-25-2013, 10:38 AM
Check your closing documents. If the title search didn't kick it up they either missed it OR its non existent. Go to your local courthouse and ask the property folks for help in researching your and his parcels. A grantee grantor search would kick this up. And it its not recorded, it doesn't exist legally.

It sounds like hes blowing smoke, so blow it back.

Chaznsc
07-25-2013, 10:43 AM
Here we are required to allow 15ft per lot for the easment. That means that the easment is 30 ft wide. you can't block it or put your fence any closer than 15ft from the property line.

I'd assume that the OP's laws are simmiliar.

Easements and setbacks are completely different instruments. An easement is for a USE and is GRANTED to another PARTY for that USE. Its not FEE Simple, which means they dont OWN the property just the right to USE the land for a specific USE.

I can get a utility easement across your yard but I dont have the right to park my truck on it.

Charles (in GA)
07-25-2013, 11:21 AM
Check your closing documents. If the title search didn't kick it up they either missed it OR its non existent. Go to your local courthouse and ask the property folks for help in researching your and his parcels. A grantee grantor search would kick this up. And it its not recorded, it doesn't exist legally.

It sounds like hes blowing smoke, so blow it back.


Easements and setbacks are completely different instruments. An easement is for a USE and is GRANTED to another PARTY for that USE. Its not FEE Simple, which means they dont OWN the property just the right to USE the land for a specific USE.

I can get a utility easement across your yard but I dont have the right to park my truck on it.

You might want to go back and spend an hour or so reading the whole thread from start to finish. The OP has done all of his homework, and apparently the neighbor doesn't have a leg to stand on, they just have to push it thru the legal system.

Charles

theoldwizard1
07-25-2013, 04:44 PM
You might want to go back and spend an hour or so reading the whole thread from start to finish. The OP has done all of his homework, and apparently the neighbor doesn't have a leg to stand on, they just have to push it thru the legal system.

Charles

And as it was said before, lawyers will do pretty much what ever you ask them to do if you pay them !


I know a divorce case that was finalized without the wife being present. No one knew her address so the judge said, "Send her alimony to the Friend of the Court." 3 months later her attorney wants to go back to court for lack of payment. Of course cashed checks showed payments were made. I wonder how long it took for her and her lawyer, to get the money from the Friend of the Courts (Wayne County. MI FoC is years behind).

BellyUpFish
07-25-2013, 04:58 PM
Or ptschram has a bullet hole in himself....:scared:

So you have now resorted to bribing the sheriffs?

LOL.. Your bias is showing..

ptschram
07-25-2013, 05:05 PM
You might want to go back and spend an hour or so reading the whole thread from start to finish. The OP has done all of his homework, and apparently the neighbor doesn't have a leg to stand on, they just have to push it thru the legal system.

Charles

Eggsactly.


We are currently counter-suing the neighbor for the BS.

When we get the judgement, we will then sue for recovery of legal expenses, then we will sue the title insurance company for their not defending us.

More legal fees.

I was told we could sue him for the battery to my son and the assault to me but it would cost $20,000, take the better part of five years and there would be no damages awarded.

theoldwizard1
07-25-2013, 07:21 PM
When we get the judgement, we will then sue for recovery of legal expenses, then we will sue the title insurance company for their not defending us.

Yeah, I thought that was the whole point of title insurance !

ptschram
07-26-2013, 08:44 PM
I spoke with the head of the building department this morning to tell him I'd closed the gates and was in compliance before I'd even received the letter directing me to do so.

I told him I intended to move all of my trucks behind the fence and would bring one out each day so there would be a different truck out in front each day. He said "The Rover of the Day, I like it!!!".

uniballer
07-26-2013, 08:52 PM
I may have missed this in the 22 pages but, how old is he and you?
I saw were he was sick at one time. What happens if he passes? legal wise?

ptschram
07-26-2013, 09:13 PM
I may have missed this in the 22 pages but, how old is he and you?
I saw were he was sick at one time. What happens if he passes? legal wise?

I am "about" 50.

I'm not sure how old he is 60, 70 maybe.

theoldwizard1
07-26-2013, 09:52 PM
I spoke with the head of the building department this morning to tell him I'd closed the gates and was in compliance before I'd even received the letter directing me to do so.

I told him I intended to move all of my trucks behind the fence and would bring one out each day so there would be a different truck out in front each day. He said "The Rover of the Day, I like it!!!".

Keeping staying on the good side of the local officials. Sounds like that is not an issue for you !

solar_eclipse2
07-26-2013, 10:22 PM
OP, I read through all 22 pages of this and one thing I can say for certain is you have some fortitude. Good on you for sticking to your guns.

I know exactly where Churubusco is. I lived in Kendallville, and worked in Ft. Wayne for 5 years. Sounds like you're not actually from 'Busco, am I right? Why on Earth would you ever move there? This is EXACTLY the kind of crazy I'd have expected from there.

I got real familiar with Indiana laws regarding property, trespass, easements, defense, and hunting on your own land in the 5 years living in Noble county. As you said before, your neighbor is lucky. I'm a lot younger than you and can still get a little hot under the collar so it's better you live next to him than me.

Good luck, keep on fighting the good fight. :D

PS, a next time Rural King has a sale on animal traps a few along his preferred path along your property might not hurt (you).:evil:

MoparTrucks
07-26-2013, 10:49 PM
I say its time for some Psy Ops. Get some red food dye and some fangs and the next time you see him put the fangs in and squirt a little red food dye in your mouth and just kind of glare at him then smile like your looking for a bite to eat...if he reports it he will sound like a loon. I would also get some glow in the dark eyes and put them in various places around the property just to freak him out....lots of things you can do to drive someone over the edge.

ZRX61
07-26-2013, 11:18 PM
He has now taken to mowing his lawn behind us in such a fashion that instead of it taking three passes, it now takes him six thus increasing the amount of time he can stare at us.
Get some 2x2 angle iron 2ft long, drive 22inches of it into the ground. I've seen what that does to a mower :)

SuzukiGS750EZ
07-27-2013, 12:08 AM
Boy. I read all the posts up to my
Posting this one. I had a neighbor like this but was too young to be able to do anything. I sure hated him and made it clear. I hope it gets
Resolved in your favor and he ends up poor and embarrassed.

Sureshot
07-27-2013, 01:46 AM
So one thing I don't see mentioned is the chronological order the land was developed/divided/purchased. What if the neighbor previously lived elsewhere and owned the field which he accessed via the easement in question. Then bought the house which adjoined a portion of the field at a later date. Would go to the merit of an easement having been in place and him wanting to protect it to maintain the independence of the two parcels.

Just a thought.

bazzateer
07-27-2013, 03:17 AM
So one thing I don't see mentioned is the chronological order the land was developed/divided/purchased. What if the neighbor previously lived elsewhere and owned the field which he accessed via the easement in question. Then bought the house which adjoined a portion of the field at a later date. Would go to the merit of an easement having been in place and him wanting to protect it to maintain the independence of the two parcels.

Just a thought.

Might explain his behaviour but if it was not done legally and recorded as such then he's out of luck.

Junkman
07-27-2013, 06:49 AM
In the old days, an easement was created by doing the same thing continually, without anyone objecting. An example would be walking across the land every morning to get the bus for 20 years. That wouldn't be a easement by deed, but it would be an easement. Same rules applies today in some states. I have a similar issue, so I just gave them a license to go over the property, because if I didn't, and kept telling them not to do so, and they continued, they would get the easement by use.
If the original owners allowed him to traverse the land, and didn't object, then he had a license to do so. If they objected, and he did it anyway, over their objection, then they had a legal obligation to have him stopped by legal actions. Most people don't ever do that, and they loose when it gets to court. If you don't protect your land rights, you can loose them to others.

tomd
07-27-2013, 08:15 AM
I was told we could sue him for the battery to my son and the assault to me but it would cost $20,000, take the better part of five years and there would be no damages awarded.

why isn't that a criminal act vs a civil matter?

Ign
07-27-2013, 10:47 AM
This saga is riveting. I've followed the up and downs of this thread and have had various opinions through out the whole saga. The one thing I am sure of is that your neighbor has mental health issues. It will never end until the guy gets some kind of treatment. Hopefully somebody neutral, friends or family, will talk with this guy and give him an arms length view of the situation or get him some counseling.

Yep, our former neighbor was the same way. You really, truly cannot reason with crazy.

Sadly, once this is "resolved" the neighbor will find something else. It might be more passive aggressive, but he'll do something. It's easy to see how these things become Hatfield/McCoy disputes that go on for generations (or at least the lifetime of PTschram and his neighbor).

I know 'cause we almost got there, but I fortunately found the best way to handle our situation was completely ignore our crazy neighbor. That pissed her off more than anything as she desperately wanted confrontation and interaction, and it meant I didn't have to spend time on things like rotating a new Rover every day. Plus she eventually got bored and started focusing on other things, like telling the local paper she saw Big Foot in the mountains (no joke).

BellyUpFish
07-27-2013, 10:52 AM
Yeh, seems like a whole lot of ignore would work here.

ptschram
07-27-2013, 11:13 AM
Keeping staying on the good side of the local officials. Sounds like that is not an issue for you !

Being honest, forthright and straightforward works when they know the other party is BSC.

OP, I read through all 22 pages of this and one thing I can say for certain is you have some fortitude. Good on you for sticking to your guns.

I know exactly where Churubusco is. I lived in Kendallville, and worked in Ft. Wayne for 5 years. Sounds like you're not actually from 'Busco, am I right? Why on Earth would you ever move there? This is EXACTLY the kind of crazy I'd have expected from there.

I lived at the corner of Washington Center and Coldwater Road from June 1963 until June 2007. the road was two lane, glorified gravel then. It's a five lane highway now. My wife wanted something quieter.

I say its time for some Psy Ops. Get some red food dye and some fangs and the next time you see him put the fangs in and squirt a little red food dye in your mouth and just kind of glare at him then smile like your looking for a bite to eat...if he reports it he will sound like a loon. I would also get some glow in the dark eyes and put them in various places around the property just to freak him out....lots of things you can do to drive someone over the edge.

I did graduate from Transylvania University (no, really, I did, BA Business/corporate finance, class of '87)

Get some 2x2 angle iron 2ft long, drive 22inches of it into the ground. I've seen what that does to a mower :)

I'd have to trespass to do that and I want to maintain my clean hands in this. Well, as clean as "I" can:lol:

So one thing I don't see mentioned is the chronological order the land was developed/divided/purchased. What if the neighbor previously lived elsewhere and owned the field which he accessed via the easement in question. Then bought the house which adjoined a portion of the field at a later date. Would go to the merit of an easement having been in place and him wanting to protect it to maintain the independence of the two parcels.

Just a thought.

His stepson bought the house and farmland. The neighbor bullied his stepson into selling it to him, rather than the stepson's biological father whose family had owned the farm five generations back and had farmed it for five generations. The crazy thing is that my neighbor's wife got their home in her divorce from her ex who then built a palatial mansion right next door! The widow who now lives in the mansion (man what drama) came over a month or so ago to express her support for us and enlightened us about what an ass our neighbor truly is.

Might explain his behaviour but if it was not done legally and recorded as such then he's out of luck.

In the old days, an easement was created by doing the same thing continually, without anyone objecting. An example would be walking across the land every morning to get the bus for 20 years. That wouldn't be a easement by deed, but it would be an easement. Same rules applies today in some states. I have a similar issue, so I just gave them a license to go over the property, because if I didn't, and kept telling them not to do so, and they continued, they would get the easement by use.
If the original owners allowed him to traverse the land, and didn't object, then he had a license to do so. If they objected, and he did it anyway, over their objection, then they had a legal obligation to have him stopped by legal actions. Most people don't ever do that, and they loose when it gets to court. If you don't protect your land rights, you can loose them to others.

This is no longer the case in some states, Indiana being one of them. If there is no document that identifies the parties, their rights, responsibilities, etc. there is no easement.

why isn't that a criminal act vs a civil matter?

You got me. I can't believe there is a misdemeanor act of battery as I think if someone batters me, I don't know when they are going to stop and I consider it to be a threat of grievous bodily injury and will respond with overwhelming (deadly) force.

williaty
07-28-2013, 12:19 AM
You got me. I can't believe there is a misdemeanor act of battery as I think if someone batters me, I don't know when they are going to stop and I consider it to be a threat of grievous bodily injury and will respond with overwhelming (deadly) force.

In most cases, the law does not agree with you on this point. As a general statement, if your assailant is not using deadly force, you are not justified in responding with deadly force. That's turned around, however, when some other factor, most commonly disparity of force, turns what would be normally seen as a non-deadly use of force by the assailant into deadly force, giving you the legal right to respond in kind. The canonical example is the big man hitting the small woman. Even using just a closed fist, courts hold that a sufficient disparity of force exists that the woman is rightly in fear of death or grevious bodily harm and can respond to the man's use of deadly force by using lethal weapon such as a gun. Another, more timely, example if is you have someone in a position of control (such as on top of you) so that you can't "roll with the punches" and is inflicting blunt force trauma to your head (with a sidewalk). The law holds disparity of force exists in that scenario and you're justified in using a weapon to defend yourself. However, if two equally able people are both up and mobile and one guy just comes up and sucker punches the other, that is NOT use of deadly force and you may not respond in a way likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm to your attacker. Now, if that first punch knocks you to the ground and the guy starts kicking you while your down, especially if he's kicking you in the head, typically the courts will agree that attacker is now using deadly force and you can respond in kind.

Remember, in the inevitable trial after a self-defense situation, what you thought at the time matters very little. What matters is what your lawyer can convince the jury a reasonable person, in your shoes, would have thought at the time.

SuzukiGS750EZ
07-28-2013, 01:27 AM
I think the law is more in favor of an attacker. If someone comes up to me acting crazy and hits me, I'm taking them out. Even if they slowly escalate it, who's to say they won't try to pull one over you and kill you? By the time they use deadly force so you can justify returning it, it may be too late. If someone is dumb enough to come and start a physical confrontation, be prepared to be schooled.

EOC_Jason
07-28-2013, 10:31 AM
I think the law is more in favor of an attacker. If someone comes up to me acting crazy and hits me, I'm taking them out. Even if they slowly escalate it, who's to say they won't try to pull one over you and kill you? By the time they use deadly force so you can justify returning it, it may be too late. If someone is dumb enough to come and start a physical confrontation, be prepared to be schooled.

You "felt an imminent threat to your life" is all you tell the police, and then you sit quietly with your mouth closed until you see your lawyer.

pitterpat
07-28-2013, 08:56 PM
Yep there are some loose cannons up in 'Busco. I live in Indy and years ago used to go to work in Ft. Wayne which took me to 'Busco every once in a while. Odd balls up there.

zmaxmotorsports
07-28-2013, 09:25 PM
He was here first, I don't know how long, but several of the attorneys I've spoken with keep indicating that the documents are lacking and that is key to my argument-that and the fact that he owns contiguous property across which he can access.

It is a strip across one entire side, he crosses it on a tractor, pick-up and now, a golf cart. He drags debris from his residence to pile it on the back of the field behind the house.

Let's keep in mind I tried to befriend him from the day we moved in and his response has been complaints to the zoning/building folks, spying on us, and at one point, he kicked one of my dogs.
If he kicked one of my dogs I would show him just how deep a jd 125d excavator can dig as the dirt was covering the corpse,Of course that's just how I deal with A-holes anyway.:mad:

24X26
07-28-2013, 09:46 PM
You "felt an imminent threat to your life" is all you tell the police, and then you sit quietly with your mouth closed until you see your lawyer.

But first you erase any online posts indicating you are premeditating using deadly force. :)

If indeed you were to ever post such things, which I have not seen.

nehog
07-29-2013, 06:50 AM
But first you erase any online posts indicating you are premeditating using deadly force. :)

If indeed you were to ever post such things, which I have not seen.

Once posted on the Internet, something can not be 'erased' or removed. Everything is cached and stored in the most unlikely of places, including search engines (Google keeps a record of almost everything on the web, so does the way back machine.

IOW: it's too late now! :lol_hitti

squatch
07-29-2013, 03:31 PM
Me too! 1997, computer science. (My wife, brother and sister-in-law as well.)


I did graduate from Transylvania University (no, really, I did, BA Business/corporate finance, class of '87)

GirchyGirchy
07-29-2013, 03:37 PM
Me too! 1997, computer science. (My wife, brother and sister-in-law as well.)

Transy's gorgeous...I love downtown Lexington. Grew up in Frankfort and went to UK, now I'm up in Indiana with the OP. :)

ptschram
07-29-2013, 07:49 PM
Me too! 1997, computer science. (My wife, brother and sister-in-law as well.)

Too cool. Small world and proof even Transy Grads are everywhere and doing everything Some of our classmates have impressed me to no end and I'm proud to have retained so many friendships started there.

ptschram
08-10-2013, 06:28 PM
Well boys, it looks like we're nearing the end and maybe pretty quickly.

Got a copy of a letter written by our attorney to his. He missed the deadline to respond to the discovery. The letter extended the deadline for his response ten more days.

Of course, we got this letter the day after we got the most recent bill from our attorney.

I would have preferred the letter had said ":Nelson voice on: Ha Ha, you missed the deadline, you lose:Nelson voice off:" but realize the Court might not have liked that, this makes us look even more reasonable, and allows both attorneys to charge yet more.

ptschram
08-26-2013, 12:40 PM
It has now been seven days beyond the ten day extension and no word from anyone.

I'm hoping this is a no news is good news situation.

On a good note, when the neighbor drives past, now he turns his head to look the opposite way. I wonder if he realized that for what it has cost him, he should have been averting his eyes from the beginning.

Kevin54
08-26-2013, 01:39 PM
It has now been seven days beyond the ten day extension and no word from anyone.

I'm hoping this is a no news is good news situation.

On a good note, when the neighbor drives past, now he turns his head to look the opposite way. I wonder if he realized that for what it has cost him, he should have been averting his eyes from the beginning.

Get your lawyer on the phone and ask him WTF is going on. Tell him you belong to a website that has everyone waiting on the outcome :rocker:

cheese79
08-26-2013, 01:44 PM
white people problems

Kevin54
08-26-2013, 02:13 PM
white people problems

:confused: Care to explain that remark?

James E
08-26-2013, 02:18 PM
white people problems

Strangely, those are the only kind I ever have.

JimVonBaden
08-26-2013, 02:20 PM
Strangely, those are the only kind I ever have.

Same here!

My Portuguese wife was once asked if she was Japanese or Chinese while conversing in Spanish with a Costa Rican lady on a plane to Mexico. What would that be called? :dunno:

Jim :cool:

bczygan
08-26-2013, 02:28 PM
If he kicked one of my dogs I would show him just how deep a jd 125d excavator can dig as the dirt was covering the corpse,Of course that's just how I deal with A-holes anyway.:mad:

How many?

Falcon67
08-26-2013, 02:43 PM
Same here!

My Portuguese wife was once asked if she was Japanese or Chinese while conversing in Spanish with a Costa Rican lady on a plane to Mexico. What would that be called? :dunno:

Jim :cool:

Girl we work with had a dorm mate from Malaysia. Other (not so worldly) Girl From Texas asks "So where in Texas is that?".

EOC_Jason
08-26-2013, 02:44 PM
Maybe he meant "first-world problems"... ;)

In a third-world country someone would of been shot and rotting a long time ago...

Lotek
08-26-2013, 04:17 PM
White people problems... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MQrEwYxZW4):bounce:

Nick Danger
08-26-2013, 04:18 PM
In a third world country, the neighbor would have called his nephew the police officer in the next county, who would have broken ptscham's thumbs as a warning. It's good to live in the first world.

pepi
08-26-2013, 04:21 PM
white people problems

Bet you wish you had them....

BellyUpFish
08-26-2013, 04:59 PM
Bet you wish you had them....

Poor boy is obviously oppressed..

3 at 8
08-26-2013, 05:15 PM
White people problems... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MQrEwYxZW4):bounce:

OMG that's funny. :lol_hitti

My favorite part starts @ 1:58



.

ptschram
08-26-2013, 05:57 PM
Get your lawyer on the phone and ask him WTF is going on. Tell him you belong to a website that has everyone waiting on the outcome :rocker:

The wife did just that! :flipoff2:

In typical attorney fashion, we'll hear something by Friday:D

theoldwizard1
08-26-2013, 06:04 PM
White people problems... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MQrEwYxZW4):bounce:

Now that IS funny !

cheese79
08-27-2013, 07:37 AM
Bet you wish you had them....

haha oh I do and the video is what I was referring to

Kevin54
08-27-2013, 08:13 AM
White people problems... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MQrEwYxZW4):bounce:

OMG that's funny. :lol_hitti

My favorite part starts @ 1:58



.

Now that IS funny !

:lol_hitti:lol_hitti Whitey sure doesn't have any dance rhythm, that for certain :lol:

James E
08-27-2013, 02:06 PM
This is the kind of music that really speaks to me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOKpDidUq-w

Kevin54
08-27-2013, 02:47 PM
This is the kind of music that really speaks to me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOKpDidUq-w

Steve Martin is funnier the hell :thumbup::thumbup:

theoldwizard1
08-27-2013, 07:04 PM
This is the kind of music that really speaks to me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOKpDidUq-w

Actually I like the scene just prior to that (where he can't dance to his "parents" music).

Another great scene is where his Dad takes him behind the barn and says , "Son, that's shit, THIS is shinola !"

Great flick ! Many more great scenes/lines. ("The new phone book is here !", "Defective oil cans !")

James E
08-28-2013, 10:34 AM
Actually I like the scene just prior to that (where he can't dance to his "parents" music)

Yeah, I tried to find the whole scene but I could only find the part where he's dancing.

I'm sure you can tell from my avatar that I love that movie.

My two favorite lines in that movie are "He hates these cans" and "He's MISTER Nussbaum."

JimVonBaden
08-28-2013, 12:50 PM
Yeah, I tried to find the whole scene but I could only find the part where he's dancing.

I'm sure you can tell from my avatar that I love that movie.

My two favorite lines in that movie are "He REALLY hates these cans" and "He's MISTER Nussbaum."

I've seen that movie 25 times or more. My best friend in HS was such a Steve Martin nut that he took up the banjo. He is a doctor now, a pediatrition with no kids.

Jim :cool:

larry_g
08-28-2013, 01:25 PM
White people problems? I thought you must be referring to these 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1okb5EIo1nw

lg
I can identify.........

carterbeauford
08-28-2013, 08:28 PM
how much land do each one of you own?

I feel bad when I see people with like 1/2 an acre each ready to go to war. my neighbors and I have over 200 acres between us and get along great. they ride their snowmobiles on our land, we fish on theirs. this is just fucking sad.

ptschram
08-31-2013, 06:37 PM
We have about 2-1/2 acres. He has a residential lot of about three acres and the ten acres of farmland behind our home.

He finally provided responses to the interrogatories. Many of them were non-answers that the Court likely will not be pleased with.

Adding even more fun to the situation, he stated under oath that the only way he could access his farmland was via the easement.

I now have not only photographic evidence of his being able to access his property via his contiguous property, I have video of him photographing me taking video of him.

Gee, just how stupid can you be to state repeatedly, under oath, under penalty of the CRIMINAL act of perjury, state that the ONLY way you can access your property is through my yard when you allow me to photograph AND video you doing otherwise.

Better yet, how will the prosecutor respond to such incontrovertible proof of his lying to the Court???

theoldwizard1
09-02-2013, 07:34 PM
Better yet, how will the prosecutor respond to such incontrovertible proof of his lying to the Court???

Sadly, they will probably just ignore it.

There was a bribery/kickback case against a prominent contractor in Detroit within the past year. The trial resulted in a hung jury because one female juror would not vote for conviction.

After the trial, it came out that this juror flat out lied on her pre-trial questionnaire, which is done under oath.

The re-trial is starting soon. Obviously, the cost of the second trial will be paid by the taxpayers.

pitterpat
09-02-2013, 07:45 PM
I figured this thing would be over by now.:willy_nil

EOC_Jason
09-02-2013, 07:46 PM
I would expect there to be a trial against the juror for lying on a government document. That is a felony...

VWPORSCHEGT3
09-02-2013, 08:26 PM
I guess when its all said and done we can only hope the old bastard kicks the bucket in a "unfortunate" mishap... people suck

theoldwizard1
09-02-2013, 09:26 PM
I would expect there to be a trial against the juror for lying on a government document. That is a felony...

That's is what the former mayor of Detroit found out ! Of course now he has been convicted of much bigger Federal charges, so he is going away for a LONG time.

Sadly, I'm betting they will never prosecute that juror.

theoldwizard1
09-02-2013, 09:28 PM
I... people suck

"God is great, beer is good ... and people are crazy !"

CNGsaves
09-03-2013, 12:41 AM
Wow this whole time reading 25 pages of posts, I thought surely this whack-job neighbor has thousands of farmland acreage and is real farmer.

So this whole BS he's been pulling has been over 10 acre lot that IS contiguously connected to his existing homestead !! Plus this crazy neighbor is just that, a crazy neighbor with piddly lot.

Sounds like both of you have paid out attorney fees that could have bought . . . or WILL buy . . . 10 acres of land !!

Maybe outcome is OP gets the 10 acres (free and clear) to pay for attorney fees he has incurred !! :rocker:

If nothing else, the OP is now extremely educated on easement law, county ordinances, etc. to never let this happen again. Good luck with final resolution. Fight it until crazy coot neighbor has to pay for his actions.

4BT
09-03-2013, 12:47 AM
Why not just dig a trench that intersects the easement.....that's on your property?

MoparTrucks
09-03-2013, 09:06 AM
how much land do each one of you own?

I feel bad when I see people with like 1/2 an acre each ready to go to war. my neighbors and I have over 200 acres between us and get along great. they ride their snowmobiles on our land, we fish on theirs. this is just fucking sad. Sure makes you appreciate having good neighbors dont it? I keep a deer stand on a neighbors farm and he has some stuff stored in one of my barns and I am ever thankful we all get along great.

theoldwizard1
09-03-2013, 03:13 PM
Sounds like both of you have paid out attorney fees ...
It is almost always the case the the attorneys make out well in the end.

wjamyers
09-03-2013, 08:35 PM
White people problems... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MQrEwYxZW4):bounce:

lol!

ptschram
09-04-2013, 07:01 PM
It only gets better.

The neighbor to the East of the troublesome neighbor stopped by this evening. Keep in mind that he late husband was the ex-husband of the troublesome neighbor's late wife. Yeah, she got a house in the divorce and her ex-husband built a HUGE house right next door...

Anyway, she indicated to my wife that the troublesome neighbor's attorney told him to give it up and pay our legal fees. It looks as though our follow-up suit for malicious prosecution will be pretty easy to pursue at this point. Given the fact that his attorney continued the suit after telling him to give it up puts us in a position to have her sanctioned for allowing him to pursue a frivolous lawsuit. Punitive damages are allowed for such suits under Indiana law...

I have a suspicion that I may end up owning another ten acres. Fair exchange in my eyes.

Spareparts
09-04-2013, 07:34 PM
It ain't over till your both broke, Lawers and politicians are in it for the money, yours and mine. They all sit at the same Country Clubs and Bars laughing at us and spending our money.

Rodhotz
09-04-2013, 08:22 PM
It ain't over till your both broke, Lawers and politicians are in it for the money, yours and mine. They all sit at the same Country Clubs and Bars laughing at us and spending our money.

Never have truer words been spoken!!:rocker:

BellyUpFish
09-05-2013, 08:51 AM
It only gets better.

The neighbor to the East of the troublesome neighbor stopped by this evening. Keep in mind that he late husband was the ex-husband of the troublesome neighbor's late wife. Yeah, she got a house in the divorce and her ex-husband built a HUGE house right next door...

Anyway, she indicated to my wife that the troublesome neighbor's attorney told him to give it up and pay our legal fees. It looks as though our follow-up suit for malicious prosecution will be pretty easy to pursue at this point. Given the fact that his attorney continued the suit after telling him to give it up puts us in a position to have her sanctioned for allowing him to pursue a frivolous lawsuit. Punitive damages are allowed for such suits under Indiana law...

I have a suspicion that I may end up owning another ten acres. Fair exchange in my eyes.

I'm just curious, is this your first lawsuit?

You really seem to be enjoying this, I'd be miserable dealing with your yutz neighbor.

James E
09-05-2013, 09:24 AM
Ptschram, while I am sympathetic to your plight, I believe you will have very little luck pursuing sanctions against your neighbor's attorney.

For one, recommending to his client that he drop his suit isn't the same as acknowledging that it is frivolous, so even if that second-hand story is true, it doesn't really prove any wrongdoing on the part of the attorney.

Secondly, representing someone with a sketchy case isn't in itself malpractice. Every 1L learns the first week of school that you can sue anyone for anything. It's up to the jury to decide and unless the client asks you to lie, you take what he is saying as the truth and represent the case in that way. If your neighbor told the attorney that he bought and paid for that easement, as long as the attorney doesn't find out that he's lying, that's what the attorney will argue--and they'll argue that for as long as the client will pay them.

Thirdly, state bar associations don't like to sanction members. They protect their own and it takes cases of gross negligence or wrongdoing for the bar to step in. Even judges don't care to reprimand attorneys because they know that one day they may not be reelected and might need a job or have to work with the same guys that are arguing cases in front of them.

IMO, I feel for you, but you might just have to settle for being glad that this seems to be wrapping up in your favor.

signcrafter
09-05-2013, 09:33 AM
I doubt you will be able to go after his lawyer. Just because his lawyer suggested he cut his losses doesn't mean the lawsuit was frivolous. As long as he can prove he has used that entrance to his field in the past and thought he had rights then it's not frivolous. May have been a longshot but not frivolous.

Also don't plan on owning any of his field. Even if you "win" and he is ordered to pay lawyer fees you most likely won't see a dime.

Kevin54
09-05-2013, 11:42 AM
It only gets better.

The neighbor to the East of the troublesome neighbor stopped by this evening. Keep in mind that he late husband was the ex-husband of the troublesome neighbor's late wife. Yeah, she got a house in the divorce and her ex-husband built a HUGE house right next door...

Anyway, she indicated to my wife that the troublesome neighbor's attorney told him to give it up and pay our legal fees. It looks as though our follow-up suit for malicious prosecution will be pretty easy to pursue at this point. Given the fact that his attorney continued the suit after telling him to give it up puts us in a position to have her sanctioned for allowing him to pursue a frivolous lawsuit. Punitive damages are allowed for such suits under Indiana law...

I have a suspicion that I may end up owning another ten acres. Fair exchange in my eyes.

Explain that in a way someone like me can understand. Did you mean to say....."Keep in mind that HER late husband, used to be married to the nutjob next door"?

You got too many ex-late husbands in there doing something, unless one is now a Zombie. In that case get ready for the Zombie Apocalypse :rocker:

If it were me and all messed up in that. Instead of fighting anymore, I would have the PoPo's out overseeing the fence guys putting up a new fence, and make sure Johnny Law has her outside watching also. Then let Johnny Law escort her back to her house and tell her...enough is enough. One more time she goes to jail. Either that or just buy the bitch out.

I am SO damn thankful that all of the neighbors here get along. All except the one that wanted to bail hay when I was mowing, and that was neither her property nor mine, but I have maintained it for probably 7 or 8 years now. My neighbor behind me, I can pretty well use her property for anything. Last summer it was around 40 tandem axle dump trucks short cutting through her pasture to my back yard. She is just one of the greatest neighbors anyone could have.