Fkin' Sears!

[eschoendorff]

So yesterday I needed to drill some holes and have been meaning to pick me up a drill press. Did some research and decided that the made in Chin-chin Craftsman 12" job would do it for me. Got in the car and traveled the 30+ minutes to the closest Sears.

got to the power tool section and found teh press I wanted. It was on sale for $159... had an associate ask me if I needed help. I told him that I wanted one of them 12" drill presses. I went all that way and - nope, none in stock! (serves me right, I shoulda check on the website before I went anyway). "Oh, but i can order it for you" he said.

So, needless to say, I went across the street to Lowes and picked up this Delta:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/eschoendorff/IMG_0728.jpg

Yeah, I probably paid too much and it's only 5 speeds, but it has a handy-dandy work light, a 2 year warranty and I got my holes drilled in my time frame!

It seems that lately everytime I walk into Sears I walk out pissed.... :mad:

[porcupine73]

Oiyas grande! That's a drill press!!!! Congrats.

[jay50]

Oh, it was in stock at your Sears; the problem is their inventory control system is so screwed up, they don't know what they have.
They are going down the same path as Kmart....

[OldCarGuy]

Heck if it wasn’t for Sears,, no one would have anything to wine about.

Not that I need another drill press, I’ve examined that Delta drill press when grazing though Lowe’s. Looks like a lot of machine for the money. Now that you own one, you’ll wonder how you got along without one for so long..

Nice red 66 Dodge Charger on your calender...

[mikeatrpi]

Nice drill press. Similar to mine... I have the 10" amazon.com special. And I absolutely love it! I wish I bought one sooner.

amazon $99 press (http://www.amazon.com/Delta-SM300-Shopmaster-Horsepower-10-Inch/dp/B000G0QQRK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1205715222&sr=8-2)

[Chris Adams]

Had one of those Delta bench top drill presses for 19 years. I sold it a couple months ago. No complaints, no problems, no failures.
You could do a lot worse.

[chad s]

Ha, I saw you mention yesterday on another thread,that you had to go to sears to pick something up. I was pretty surprised to see you wanted to step foot in there after all of the BS you have experienced (Trust me, I have had my share as well!). I was almost going to make a smart ass comment, but held back, not wanting to jinx you. I guess it wouldnt have mattered!

[kartracer55]

I went into sears this week with the GF to pick up a 10mm socket. Nobody in the tool department had the key to open the display case. WTF


Nice buy

Jim

[wythors]

Checking the website for availability is completely useless. As stated before, their inventory control system is FU'd. If you want to make a small fortune, go to work at Sears in the shipping/receiving department. You could throw stuff out the back door and into the back of your truck all day long and nobody would notice. The only way is to call the store (good luck getting to speak to a human) and have them do a physical check.

[Rusty67]

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. The simple act of seting foot into a Home Depot is enough to make a person indescrimately start swearing. Sears has been trying really hard to achieve that status and lately it seems like they are starting to make some head way.

[rsanter]

the stores that really piss me off here are the home depot and sears. the home depot in fresno treats me well and I have great luck in every lowes I go to.

the problem is the management... they suck so most of the employees follow their lead

bob

[ovilla]

I've been shopping mostly at Menards because it's right outside my subdivision. Anyway, I've actually found prices on almost everything to be less than Depot or Lowes. The only thing that you can't buy at Menards are the newest tools. Seriously, who buys the Menards Tool Shop brand or whatever it is that they call it. I've yet to ever see anyone buy an actual tool from Menards at any of the checkout lanes. They do carry some name brand tools but they're mostly older stock (think Big Lots). When I need tools I do end up going to Sears and am happy to say that the experience is usually pretty good. I typically go in for one thing and spend 30 minutes just checking out everything in the store, isle by isle. I live in the Chicago burbs so even if they're out of stock, another Sears is most likely a 5-10 minute trip away.

[kidney]

Menards


The Menard's where I live carries a a decent line of Allen brand tools.

[eschoendorff]

The Menard's where I live carries a a decent line of Allen brand tools.

Yes, they do... and all of my Allen branded tools have been really nice. I was going to hit Menards to check out drill presses, but had already (in my mind) decided on the Craftsman. That was until I realized that they weren't available that day.

That's the part that gets me... a brick and mortar store is a place where i expect to be able to purchase and take delivery of merchandise NOW. If I wanted to order a drill press from Sears, I would have done it at home in my PJs and saved some time and gas money. :mad:

[Junkman]

Yes, they do... and all of my Allen branded tools have been really nice. I was going to hit Menards to check out drill presses, but had already (in my mind) decided on the Craftsman. That was until I realized that they weren't available that day.

That's the part that gets me... a brick and mortar store is a place where i expect to be able to purchase and take delivery of merchandise NOW. If I wanted to order a drill press from Sears, I would have done it at home in my PJs and saved some time and gas money. :mad:


This is where the problem lies. Some people want instant gratification and want the item now. Others want to buy it as inexpensively as possible, and are willing to do Internet shopping. It costs a lot of money to staff and inventory merchandise, and if it isn't doing the number of sales per month to justify stocking it in the store, then it is dropped from the stores inventory list. Having a store, I know this problem first hand. People expect us to stock every item that they could possibly want, and then when they come into the store to purchase it, they are comparing our price with an Internet store price. They then weigh the difference in cost and decide if the additional cost is worth it to them. Some of these items are date coded and perishable, so if they don't have sufficient turns a month, then we have no choice to drop the item. We can't return out of date items, and the profit margins are not sufficient to take the loss.
My wife was looking for a Hershey Chocolate baking cocoa last week, and can no longer find it in the local store. I called Hershey's in PA and asked where it could be purchased. After checking the bar code number, I was told that it had been discontinued due to a lack of sales. The retail world is changing, and for those of us that are used to the old world, we also are going to have to learn to adapt. I have a Sears drill press that I purchased in the 1960's. It isn't the type of item that will have lots of repeat sales, so it isn't going to be heavily stocked, or stocked at all, if the demand isn't there for purchases.

[dxdexter]

Long ago I decided if I had my mind set on a particular item, then that is the one I would get and not settle for something else. I will call the store before going and if they don't have it in stock then I will place an order and wait.

I bought all my larger items from local dealers and waited for my tool chest and roller cabinet, table saw, drill press, and other items I can't recall at this time. As Junkman said, stores can't afford to carry inventory of every item in their catalog or they may have just sold the last one 5 minutes before you walked in the door.

While I'm sure you did well with the Delta, sometimes "settling" will come back to haunt you, either by lower quality or buyers remorse over paying more than expected.

It is a great looking drill press (for a benchtop model :)).

[MAD]

While I have had a few reasons to use that fine four letter Anglo Saxon expletive and Sears in the same breath in recent times, I would not consider a low volume out of stock item a reason to get bent out of shape. I realize that this may just be the latest in a long series of disappointments with Sears but the title of the thread just sounds a bit like whining to me.

Enjoy your new drill press. Winter will be over soon.:)

[Uncle Buck]

I've been shopping mostly at Menards because it's right outside my subdivision. Anyway, I've actually found prices on almost everything to be less than Depot or Lowes. The only thing that you can't buy at Menards are the newest tools. Seriously, who buys the Menards Tool Shop brand or whatever it is that they call it. I've yet to ever see anyone buy an actual tool from Menards at any of the checkout lanes. They do carry some name brand tools but they're mostly older stock (think Big Lots). When I need tools I do end up going to Sears and am happy to say that the experience is usually pretty good. I typically go in for one thing and spend 30 minutes just checking out everything in the store, isle by isle. I live in the Chicago burbs so even if they're out of stock, another Sears is most likely a 5-10 minute trip away.

The most heavily stocked Sears store I ever visited was in Chicago a few years back; they had the best stocked hdw dept of any Sears I have ever visited. Tons of stuff on the floor even the stuff usually catalog only was on the floor! I guess it being in Chicago must have had something to do with that, or at least that was what I attributed it to. :wtf:

[jniolon]

Heck if it wasn’t for Sears,, no one would have anything to wine about.


I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. The simple act of seting foot into a Home Depot is enough to make a person indescrimately start swearing. Sears has been trying really hard to achieve that status and lately it seems like they are starting to make some head way.


Not to worry.... when we're tired/finished of whining about Sears... there are ALWAYS the online vendors.....

I love it when they say...

"well, that part seems to be backordered and I don't know when we'll get it in"

"well, I know the website says it's 18.97 but it's actually 88.43, you still want it ??"

"well, all I know is it says it was shipped Monday the 1st with a three day delivery.. what ?? uh... yea it has been 21 days... it must be a UPS problem"

" tracking number ??? uh I don't seem to have a tracking number in the computer.... it'll probably get there tomorrow."

" refunds normally take from 30 to 45 days to show up on your Visa bill, maybe it will be on there next month'.

' you say you ordered it two weeks ago...and your Visa was charged that day, huh.... I don't find any order from you at all in the system, do you want to reorder ???



that's why I like to buy local when I can.... so I can have someone's throat to hold till something happens...

later
John

[Rusty67]

See, now THAT is some funny stuff. I've had my gripes with online orders before but there are plenty of reliable places out there online that give good service and can beat the BM store prices.

[eschoendorff]

While I have had a few reasons to use that fine four letter Anglo Saxon expletive and Sears in the same breath in recent times, I would not consider a low volume out of stock item a reason to get bent out of shape. I realize that this may just be the latest in a long series of disappointments with Sears but the title of the thread just sounds a bit like whining to me.

Enjoy your new drill press. Winter will be over soon.:)

I disagree. if it were a little ma and pa store, I would understand. But, this was mega-retailer Sears, and this was an item that I do not consider to be a particularly low-volume unit and to top it off, it was advertised on sale!!!

Somehow, it just seems like there should be several items on hand if they are an advertised sale item.

I do expect instant gratification if I go to a large, national brick and mortar store. That's the whole point! If it was something I didn't need NOW, I would have ordered it and found it online cheaper....

[Junkman]

OK..... Sears has finally gone belly up, and tomorrow all the stores will be locked down securely, the sign on the doors will read.... Gone out of business. What is next? Who are you going to complain about? Seems that everyone here is complaining about the quality of service at HD, and Sears isn't satisfying your current needs. Who is going to come into these brick and mortar stores to take Sears place? Harbor Freight?? Seems that everyone has a negative comment about every retailer that is left. You have to realize that it is the American consumer that has caused a lot of these problems by the way that they shop. In another thread, a manufacturer replaces a defective item and the person gives that defective item to a neighbor to use. The neighbor instead returns the item to the store where it was originally purchased. The store give the person a credit, refund, or another item. I don't know, and it doesn't matter what he got in return for the item, the store looses, because they have to handle the return of defective merchandise that was replaced by the manufacturer. If the store sends the defective merchandise back to the manufacturer for credit, then the manufacturer looses. Seems that for the most part, the responses to that thread don't see a moral issue at all.
In another thread, Sears or some other on line retailer makes a pricing error, and everyone here thinks that is great, and orders as many as they can, hoping to make a "score". Problem is that your "score" has cost the retailer a loss of capital, since the item was sold for below cost. No one sees this as being "immoral" since it is a large retailer that made the mistake. All of these actions cost the retailers profits, and ultimately they go out of business. When I was growing up, if a store made a mistake in the price, a person would point it out to management, and wouldn't take advantage of the mistake. Now, it is a "me first" type of attitude, except when the "me first" person is on the loosing end of the deal. It is time for us to get our priorities in order. Treat others, including retailers, the way that you would want to be treated. I don't believe that there is anyone here that would allow their employer to short change them in their paycheck. Now, I ask, why is it OK to "short change" the retailers? :mad:

[eschoendorff]

OK..... Sears has finally gone belly up, and tomorrow all the stores will be locked down securely, the sign on the doors will read.... Gone out of business. What is next? Who are you going to complain about? Seems that everyone here is complaining about the quality of service at HD, and Sears isn't satisfying your current needs. Who is going to come into these brick and mortar stores to take Sears place? Harbor Freight?? Seems that everyone has a negative comment about every retailer that is left. You have to realize that it is the American consumer that has caused a lot of these problems by the way that they shop. In another thread, a manufacturer replaces a defective item and the person gives that defective item to a neighbor to use. The neighbor instead returns the item to the store where it was originally purchased. The store give the person a credit, refund, or another item. I don't know, and it doesn't matter what he got in return for the item, the store looses, because they have to handle the return of defective merchandise that was replaced by the manufacturer. If the store sends the defective merchandise back to the manufacturer for credit, then the manufacturer looses. Seems that for the most part, the responses to that thread don't see a moral issue at all.
In another thread, Sears or some other on line retailer makes a pricing error, and everyone here thinks that is great, and orders as many as they can, hoping to make a "score". Problem is that your "score" has cost the retailer a loss of capital, since the item was sold for below cost. No one sees this as being "immoral" since it is a large retailer that made the mistake. All of these actions cost the retailers profits, and ultimately they go out of business. When I was growing up, if a store made a mistake in the price, a person would point it out to management, and wouldn't take advantage of the mistake. Now, it is a "me first" type of attitude, except when the "me first" person is on the loosing end of the deal. It is time for us to get our priorities in order. Treat others, including retailers, the way that you would want to be treated. I don't believe that there is anyone here that would allow their employer to short change them in their paycheck. Now, I ask, why is it OK to "short change" the retailers? :mad:

Nope... not mad at them all, just Sears. Nope... didn't order a bunch of .99 pliers and $9.99 OTC pullers either. i just expected Sears to actually have the product that I needed when I needed it. they didn't . So I went to Lowes. Lowes is a little more pricey for some things, but they have stuff in stock.

You also have to remember that I drove 30 miles to get in on a two day (IIRC) sale.

The salesman told me "If i don't have it in stock I can order it for you." I replied, "If you don't have it in stock, I'm going to Lowes." He looked at me and said, "Yeah, we get that alot." I then proceeded to tell him that I needed to drill some holes that night - and that I needed to have a drill press now. He understood and seemed just as frustrated with the system as I was.

Now, a retailer that i cannot complain about is Hickey's Music in Ithaca, NY. They are great! I just wish taht they sold drill presses.....

[dxdexter]

OK..... Sears has finally gone belly up, and tomorrow all the stores will be locked down securely, the sign on the doors will read.... Gone out of business. What is next? Who are you going to complain about? Seems that everyone here is complaining about the quality of service at HD, and Sears isn't satisfying your current needs. Who is going to come into these brick and mortar stores to take Sears place? Harbor Freight?? Seems that everyone has a negative comment about every retailer that is left. You have to realize that it is the American consumer that has caused a lot of these problems by the way that they shop. In another thread, a manufacturer replaces a defective item and the person gives that defective item to a neighbor to use. The neighbor instead returns the item to the store where it was originally purchased. The store give the person a credit, refund, or another item. I don't know, and it doesn't matter what he got in return for the item, the store looses, because they have to handle the return of defective merchandise that was replaced by the manufacturer. If the store sends the defective merchandise back to the manufacturer for credit, then the manufacturer looses. Seems that for the most part, the responses to that thread don't see a moral issue at all.
In another thread, Sears or some other on line retailer makes a pricing error, and everyone here thinks that is great, and orders as many as they can, hoping to make a "score". Problem is that your "score" has cost the retailer a loss of capital, since the item was sold for below cost. No one sees this as being "immoral" since it is a large retailer that made the mistake. All of these actions cost the retailers profits, and ultimately they go out of business. When I was growing up, if a store made a mistake in the price, a person would point it out to management, and wouldn't take advantage of the mistake. Now, it is a "me first" type of attitude, except when the "me first" person is on the loosing end of the deal. It is time for us to get our priorities in order. Treat others, including retailers, the way that you would want to be treated. I don't believe that there is anyone here that would allow their employer to short change them in their paycheck. Now, I ask, why is it OK to "short change" the retailers? :mad:

My response is not directed at the OP or the subject of his thread.

Junk, you make some very valid observations. Its not ok to short change retailers. Everyone wants everything for nothing and they don't consider that the retailer must make a profit in order to survive and margins are not as great as was in the past due to the global economy. Its the Walmart mentality. When I was younger I couldn't have everything I wanted because the products were more expensive and represented a greater portion of my income. Now I can buy a wrench for a few bucks or a TV for pocket change just about anywhere. It is this that makes us want everything for little or nothing. We have become brainwashed and do not appreciate the value of goods and services.

When I started a small business building custom kitchens in 2000, I only lasted two years because i just couldn't compete against HD who was practically giving it away. The consumers did not understand that the product was custom sizing and of a different quality. They wanted to beat me down on every aspect.

I presently have a low mileage Dewalt saw for sale for $70 which is less than 50% the cost of new. All the responses to my ad have been people trying to get it for less ($50 and $60). I think I will keep it until I get what I want.

It is now engrained in our society. I do admit to falling into this way of thinking at times, but try my best shake myself out of it. I'm sure you to have fallen into this mindset at times.

[MarkH]

Well said Junk.

I had been getting frustrated reading the comments on multiple posts.

Then again, I have learned too many lessons from more years than I care to admit. That prevents many frustrations that drive my wife and others up the wall.

On the other side, I have never brought the items we broke with what I consider abuse to any retailer or bought items with the intent of warrantying them. Since I deal with one person at each of the places I get Wright, Craftsman, Proto, SK, etc there is a relationship that is not abused. The gal for Proto usually looks at me and go, you ain't gonna like the price. I comment I know what I am getting and expected that price then write the check. They go the extra mile when I need it.

For me a trip to Sears is more like a Mom and Pop trip. He has even searched other local stores (more than Sears) if I have an immediate need.

My uncle told me that business goes both ways. We were 300 miles from home one day and were told about our neighbors practices at an implement where were picking up some farm equipment. The sign said local checks only, I wrote one, he looked at it and said it was good, our reputation had spred that far also. It was his way of making sure our neighbors paid cash.

[russlaferrera]

Replenishing stock. How hard can it be?

You have to establish Min/Max on the number of items you stock. Know how long it takes your order to be filled from the warehouse. Adjust +/- as needed.

If it is going to be a sale item that will sell in your area. Have sufficient items on hand, for the event. I am sure there is sufficient notice before the sale.

Major sales, Christmas, National Hardware Month etc. will give an indication of what sells in your area. Stock what sells. ie. Snow shovels in Florida...NO! Voting machines...YES!

Talk to your suppliers. Ask what is everyone buying, and what's selling where.

Reward your staff for a great job. Fire the bad ones! Excellent motivator!!

If Motor Carriers and Plant stockrooms ran like these Department stores industry would come to a standstill!!!!!

[lauver]

Esch,

It's not just Sears. Every place I go to has service and inventory problems. We as consumers are being dumbed-down by the kids working the counters and the managers who just got out of junior college last year. It's an ugly trend! But, I had a thought on your recent experience at Sears. After you were told that there was no drill press in inventory, why not ask to speak to the manager and ask him for a huge discount on the display model. I'll bet you could have walked out with the display model and had an extra $50 in your wallet for your trouble. Don't get mad, get even!

And one other thing...I want your tools, tool cabinet, and new Delta drill press right now. I can't wait until you die.

[nissan_crawler]

I'll bet you could have walked out with the display model and had an extra $50 in your wallet for your trouble. Don't get mad, get even!

Doubtful. Heck, I bought 3 of their craftsman pro wall cabinets for $99 each on sale. I got home, one was beat to hell. I brought it back and said I wanted an exchange or a discount. They said sure, we'll discount it...than said "we need your card for your $10 credit". $10? WTF? I told them that I only paid $100 for it new, they were going to have to do better thn $90 for it being beat to hell. "Sorry sir, that's $70 off the normal price as it is." "Maybe, but I didn't pay the normal price, and nobody is going to for a beat up cabinet." "Sorry sir, it's already $160 marked down to $90." "No, you have a sale ont hem now, it's $100 marked down to $90." "That's now it works sir, I can just give you $10 off." I promptly said "no, for $10 off, you're just going to give me a new one". They did.

This last weekend I went to sears for a few odds and ends on the 20% off sale, and went to the damaged section thinking the cabinet might be $50. Nope, it was $120!!!

[eschoendorff]

Esch,

It's not just Sears. Every place I go to has service and inventory problems. We as consumers are being dumbed-down by the kids working the counters and the managers who just got out of junior college last year. It's an ugly trend! But, I had a thought on your recent experience at Sears. After you were told that there was no drill press in inventory, why not ask to speak to the manager and ask him for a huge discount on the display model. I'll bet you could have walked out with the display model and had an extra $50 in your wallet for your trouble. Don't get mad, get even!

The thought crossed my mind, but you should have seen the display model. Missing pieces, broken parts, not a pretty sight.

And one other thing...I want your tools, tool cabinet, and new Delta drill press right now. I can't wait until you die.

:lol: I hear you bro...

[Chris Adams]

The local Sears likes its scratched up floor models a lot more than most places like their new stuff...
The usual discount for something missing parts or badly beat up is about 5-10% off.
So the stuff sits there a long time, then they bad merchandise it. (trash it and mark off the whole amount).

[Stuey]

A lot of benchtop tools at Sears have receiving dates, and taking a look at a few of them suggest that either stock is moved around from low sales stores to higher sales stores, or certain products just sit around until they're sold. Also, Sears is VERY notorious for advertising sale items that either never get delivered to the store or are stocked in incredibly low quantities.

Their web-based inventory system is hardly ever accurate. Aside from that, given that the 12" DP is advertised in about every single Craftsman Club flyer and advertised as on sale via regular flyers at least once or twice a month, most Sears locations should have at least one or two in stock.

As far as consumers wanting both quality and price, that's me. If I head out to a B&M, I either know what I need and want it ASAP, can get it for less cost than elsewhere, or I don't know what I need and I want help in making a purchase.

B&M prices should of course be a bit higher than online due to higher operating costs, but to help cut down on operating costs, stores are hiring less experienced persons and paying them less. I've seen employees at HD, Lowes, and Sears so stumped that they start fabricating things.

As far as price matching is concerned, if an advertised price says "online only" then fine. But when a store has a "price match" or "low price guarantee" but won't honor their online-adertised price, they're just begging us to turn to the likes of Walmart and Amazon.com.

For the most part, I've found the folk at Lowes to be pretty helpful. Home Depot's customer service has degraded over the years, and their staff isn't as helpful or willing to help as they used to be. Sears is the same way, but I'm lucky enough to have learned who to go to at each of my local three stores when I want to make a purchase. If I can't find them, I simply come back another time. Besides, I'd rather the folk who always go out of their way for me to earn commission from my business. That's also why I try to shop mom & pop when I can as well - they offer genuine service and assistance which justify the extra few dollars in their price markup.

[89MustangGX]

The local Sears likes its scratched up floor models a lot more than most places like their new stuff...
The usual discount for something missing parts or badly beat up is about 5-10% off.
So the stuff sits there a long time, then they bad merchandise it. (trash it and mark off the whole amount).

I was shopping the scratch and dent section at the local Sears here. Found a 40" rollaway and thought I might have found a heck of a deal. Everything else in the section was marked 30-40% off from my quick calculations. This one had the Craftsman emblem broken off (but it was inside the drawer and would have been easy to glue) and had a couple chips in the paint. Nothing more or less than the other things there. I asked about it and was told that because it was the display model it was only 10% off the regular price. IT WAS MORE THAN THE SALE PRICE ON THE SAME MODEL NEW IN THE BOX! All they could tell me is that was how the manager set the pricing and the only way to get it cheaper is to let it sit there for a few weeks. If it doesn't sell then they lower it. :wtf:

[Junkman]

One problem that I have identified at many of the stores today is the manager hasn't a clue as to how to run a store, and what is necessary to make sales and also retain customers. That coupled with the occasional customer that will lie and cheat to get the bargain has made many of them leery to want to make deal to move merchandise that is damaged. Running a multi million dollar inventory store requires training and experience, which today isn't very common. Some of the chains don't give management much leeway to do much of anything, and management is more of a baby sitting job than a management job. Couple this with the fact that the stores management team's pay is also tied to the financial success of the store, and you have a recipe for disaster. I know of a car dealership that has the service managers salary tied to the profit and loss of the service department. Problem is that when sales gives away 3 years of free oil and filter changes, the list price is deducted from the sales of the service department. Even the techs take it on the chin doing the services. It didn't take very long before the service manager that was hired to straighten out the service department walked. There is no easy solution to the problem, and with everyone out for whatever they can get for a deep discount, it isn't going to be resolved very soon. It is like the CEO of the company that isn't doing well, gets a salary bonus, even though the company lost money with him at the helm. I wonder how much the CEO of Sears is making this year? I also wonder if he has set foot into a Sears store more than 10 miles away from his office? I doubt it....

[Major Ramifications]

I can't imagine living 30 minutes from a Sears store, and I hope I never know what that is like. That is something I will check on before I move. I like Sears that much. It is not anyone else's fault that one chooses to live where they do. A person can pay more for property closer to Sears, or they can pay for gasoline, time, and wear and tear on their vehicles driving back and forth to places that seemed to expensive to live near. I will take the more expensive property every time. Not everyone agrees with me on this, and that is fine with me as long as they don't whine about how far they have to drive to get where they need to go.
I also can't imagine waiting until I need to drill some holes to buy a drill press, but that is probably because I am more interested in the tools than the work they can do. I just don't get enough time to use them as I'd like.

[dxdexter]

I can't imagine living 30 minutes from a Sears store,

I"m reasonably sure there are worse things in life. I live almost 30 min from Sears and have survived so far. When I travel to work, I'm within 5 minutes of the store and I can't even remember the last time I went through the doors .

[wilbilt]

I disagree. if it were a little ma and pa store, I would understand. But, this was mega-retailer Sears, and this was an item that I do not consider to be a particularly low-volume unit and to top it off, it was advertised on sale!!!

Somehow, it just seems like there should be several items on hand if they are an advertised sale item.

I do expect instant gratification if I go to a large, national brick and mortar store. That's the whole point! If it was something I didn't need NOW, I would have ordered it and found it online cheaper....

I have experienced the same issue at Sears for 30 years or more. Nothing is ever in stock. Especially frustrating when it is a nationally-advertised sale item.

It might have worked back in the catalog sales days of the 1950s-1970s, but not today.

At any rate, the drill press you bought is essentially the same as the Sears one. Goodbye, Sears.

[MAD]

I disagree. if it were a little ma and pa store, I would understand. But, this was mega-retailer Sears, and this was an item that I do not consider to be a particularly low-volume unit and to top it off, it was advertised on sale!!!

Somehow, it just seems like there should be several items on hand if they are an advertised sale item.

I do expect instant gratification if I go to a large, national brick and mortar store. That's the whole point! If it was something I didn't need NOW, I would have ordered it and found it online cheaper....

I see your point with the advertised sale availability thing. But this is not necessarily an inventory problem for them. They may have calculated that it is not worth keeping more than one or two of those drill presses on hand even though it is a frequent sale item. It may be more profitable to them to loose a sale to you than to over stock the item. Lots of customers would have taken the rain check. A good sales person might have offered you a killer deal on the next model up but it seems the low level associates at Sears are not trained to do this. Many big retailers do not keep large numbers of each stationary power tool on hand. I checked the availability of the drill press you bought at the Lowes store near me. There were none in stock there or at any of the surrounding stores. They had only one of the 16 1/2" Deltas and only one of the 10" Hitachi Drill presses. They did stock two of the small Task Force drill presses. Sears often seems like they don't have a clue but this may or may not be the case with your latest experience.

If they said that they had one for you and then didn't have it when you got there then you should be pissed. They offered you a rain check for the sale price and they were polite. If you expect more than that from Sears you are just setting yourself up for disappointment. I know it wasn't like that when mom got your tough skins there but that was then and this is now.

[SteveV]

I can't even believe that someone is actually so irritated at Sears for not having an item like a specific drill press in stock.

Sears' website can tell you which stores have which items in stock in real time, or you could simply just call Sears and ask before you drove over there. Besides, if Sears had every single item in stock at all times, they'd be out of business ASAP. No department store could afford that type of supply chain model, especially for items as esoteric as a drill press. Sears has to make money to keep it's doors open, it can't survive by being all things to all people.

There are a lot of bad companies out there, but Sears is better than most. How many companies at least TRY to carry american-made products like Craftsman hand tools, and at a reasonable price to boot. About 90% of their hand tools are made in the U.S., and if it ever breaks, they hand you a new one, even if it's 30 years old and it's been abused. And yet, people still complain about how awful Craftsman tools are. No, their $25 ratchet isn't is good as a $100 Snap On one, but it's made in the US, and it's warrantied for life without any type of hassle. If only every business in this country were as good as Sears.

You talk a lot of sense, Junkman. A lot of people would have a much different perspective if they owned their own business. People have a sense of entitlement when it comes to how they relate to other businesses. They're not usually happy unless they've "screwed" over a business. That perspective changes when you own your own business, and you see how some customers treat you, even when you're just trying to make an honest living.

[nissan_crawler]

I can't even believe that someone is actually so irritated at Sears for not having an item like a specific drill press in stock.

Sears' website can tell you which stores have which items in stock in real time, or you could simply just call Sears and ask before you drove over there. Wrong. The computer's inventory is quite often way off what the store inventory is. Besides, if Sears had every single item in stock at all times, they'd be out of business ASAP. No department store could afford that type of supply chain model, especially for items as esoteric as a drill press. Sears has to make money to keep it's doors open, it can't survive by being all things to all people.

There are a lot of bad companies out there, but Sears is better than most. How many companies at least TRY to carry american-made products like Craftsman hand tools, and at a reasonable price to boot. About 90% of their hand tools are made in the U.S., and if it ever breaks, they hand you a new one, even if it's 30 years old and it's been abused. And yet, people still complain about how awful Craftsman tools are. No, their $25 ratchet isn't is good as a $100 Snap On one, but it's made in the US, and it's warrantied for life without any type of hassle. Wrong again. They constantly give me trouble on returns, and refuse to warranty old lifetime tools dad has.If only every business in this country were as good as Sears.

You talk a lot of sense, Junkman. A lot of people would have a much different perspective if they owned their own business. People have a sense of entitlement when it comes to how they relate to other businesses. They're not usually happy unless they've "screwed" over a business. That perspective changes when you own your own business, and you see how some customers treat you, even when you're just trying to make an honest living.Sears business practices for the last few years have been less than honest.

The Sears today is NOT the Sears of yesterday.

[Stuey]

Sears is one of the worst of the larger retailers there is at the moment.

If you place an online order, there is a good chance that there will be delays or issues with your order. Several orders of mine and my colleagues have been "inexplicably lost in the system". How does that even happen these days! Sears' customer service is completely ineffectual. Given that the system is automated, nobody is authorized to do anything; the inability to cancel an order and being told to either refuse the delivery or take the shipped product to the store for a refund is pretty lame, especially if it takes three weeks of "processing" before an order ships out.

If you order a product online for in-store pickup, there is a good chance that things with a local store will be screwed up, especially if the item is on sale and everyone wants one at once.

In-store employees are not familiar with the tools they are tasked to sell, and are mostly interested with earning some commission. There are quite a few gems out there though, but you have to be lucky and go through a few bad associates before you learn which ones you can trust will help you.

The price scheme is deceptive. This week a certain ball bearing combo is on "sale" for $400 and you get a "free" intermediate chest. Most weeks, the sale price is for $300 and an intermediate costs $100 extra. Other times, a 20% off sale is advertised for ball bearing tool storage, but prices end up being higher than catalog prices and most other promo prices. The special sale price is then a bit higher than the sale prices that are active the other 3 weeks of the month.

Let's not even talk about the changes to the return policy. Sears employees have mentioned the various loopholes that now exist in attempt by the stores to reject and discourage warranty attempts.

These days, you have a better chance at finding tool advice at McDonalds than Sears. With Sears, we're left to fend for ourselves. To take advantage of a sale usually requires making leaps and crossing hurdles.

Sears really needs a complete upheaval of their executive staff. I mean, as much as I love finally being able to justify purchasing the thin-profile ratchet set for $25, one must wonder how much $$ they're losing with each one given the $80 list price and $60 holiday sale price. The set not branded with "80 anniversary" is on the next peg with a $99 pricetag. I guess that's how the recoup the losses, by marking up alternatively packaged versions.

Then there's the 19 piece screwdriver set clearanced at $7. How/why would they do that given the $3-4 pricetag on each individual screwdriver sold separately? "Out with the old, in with the new, regardless of cost or loss"??

/end rant.

[Chris Adams]

They are not losing money on the Craftsman stuff at 80% off. They just are not making as much money as they would like.

Prices on tools are VERY inflated.
I doubt the cost on the ratchets exceeds 20 dollars a set.
Margin at Sears on tools runs about 350% on regular priced items.
Not super high, but about average in tools from big retailers.

Plus, when you do a markdown on a vendor's product about 90% of the time the vendor is 'in the boat with you' or in other words, absorbs a percentage of the markdown.

This is often not reflected in the P&L statement on the store level, but in promotional and support costs absorbed by the vendor.

Scratch and ding stuff is seldom supported by vendors as it is deemed an accident that happens in the store.

The manager makes the decision to mark it down, which comes off the top.

The lower the GP on the division, the lower the manager's bonus, or evaluation.

If the product is sold cheap it also 'parasites' off retail sales.

That is, if you sell a tool box for 50% of retail it loses you some GP dollars, but more important, it kills the sale of a NON-scratch and ding unit, thus hurting you twice.

This sounds weird but true.

The same way a stolen socket is considered a loss not at the wholesale cost but at the retail.
The guy stole a 7.00 socket, with a cost of 1.25 to the store.
But he didn't BUY a 7.00 socket, thus the store is out the 1.25 and the 5.75.
I’ve always argued that most shop lifting is by people who would never buy the product but that’s a minority opinion.

Anyway, retail management is a VERY hard job, stressful, moderately paid and requires knowledge, people skills, luck and lots of hard work.
Finding good managers is the most difficult job in ANY company.

[Stuey]

Anyway, retail management is a VERY hard job, stressful, moderately paid and requires knowledge, people skills, luck and lots of hard work.
Finding good managers is the most difficult job in ANY company.
Your explanations were very insightful - thanks for teaching me a few things.

Anyways, I don't think that problems end with the store or department managers. I've spoken to a few so far, and they all seem disgruntled about what they have to enforce. One of them defended store policies but suggested that all of the policies were handed down from above. Another complained that things weren't like this before their acquisition by Kmart, and that the corporate heads seem more focused on penny pinching than customer satisfaction.

With everything that I heard and was told, I think that the executive level or at least regional managers are more to blame than store/tool dept. managers.

Lowes and HD are sometimes run poorly, but more often than not one bad store is not indicative of the experiences at other HD or Lowes in the area. In those situations, the bad management doesn't drip down from corporate.

[SteveV]

The Sears today is NOT the Sears of yesterday.

They've never refused me an exchange, they're online system has worked for me, and the employees in the tool department have gone out of their way and been helpful and knowledgeable in my dealings.

At the end of the day, I don't doubt for a minute that there are employees at Sears that are incompetent (I'm sure most are), but I have a hard time believing they're purposely baiting and switching to cheat consumers. When an item's on sale, it may be they're getting rid of a certain model, it then sells out, and they're aren't any more available. That happens everywhere.

NO retail store is like it was in the 1970's, it's just not a Sears thing. You used to be able to go to a hardware store, and have a knowledgeable and skilled person help you, but now you go to a store like Home Depot, and you're lucky if the person can speak English. Consumers want cheap, and they usually don't give a damn about service, quality or where something is made. Sears can either make themselves competitive in this new environment, or go the way of Montgomery Ward. A highly skilled workforce is expensive, which means Sears would have to raise prices. Compared to other stores, like Walmart, I think Sears is still pretty decent for the times.

It's not like Sears is rolling in the dough, just take a look at their quarterly profits, it's public information. Their profits plunged 40% just last year.

There are other companies that can better suit your needs if you're a pro, you need specific tools fast with knowledgeable sales people like Snap-On, Matco, Grainger, Mac etc. You're just not going to get Sears prices (usually 300-400% more expensive), and usually you need to have a big account with these dealers to get good service. (and they're are PLENTY of complaints about these companies also)

Every company can't be all things to all people. Consumers just need to decide what level of service/support is acceptable to them, and they need to be ready to pay for it.

[fotoflojoe]

For the most part, I've found the folk at Lowes to be pretty helpful. Home Depot's customer service has degraded over the years, and their staff isn't as helpful or willing to help as they used to be...

Interesting thing I've noticed lately. For the longest time, my experience at Home Depot was that when an employee saw you, they'd run the other way and hide. I got used to fending for myself to find what I needed. However, the last three times I've gone there, I've been approached by employees, asked if I needed assistance, and was given what I consider to be knowledgeable advice and quick service. I appreciate that

FWIW, I've always gotten that level of service at Lowes.

As others have stated, retail service levels have plummeted, the sad part is how consumers have been thoroughly conditioned to accept it. What annoys me to no end is the Best Buy employee who sees me standing there for 30 minutes and ignores me. Then when I've finally found what I'm looking for, he stops me to put his commission sticker on the box of the item that I'm about to buy. Eff you.

[Junkman]

NO retail store is like it was in the 1970's, it's just not a Sears thing.

The service in my store is the same as it was in the 1970's, and nothing has changed for the worse. I built a chain of stores on good service, and that is the way it still is today in the one remaining store that I still own. I may have retired, but the basic core principals have remained the same.

You used to be able to go to a hardware store, and have a knowledgeable and skilled person help you, but now you go to a store like Home Depot, and you're lucky if the person can speak English.

Today, there are still local hardware stores that still offer the same great service as they did years ago. Problem is that they are shrinking in numbers as a result of lack of customer support.

Consumers want cheap, and they usually don't give a damn about service, quality or where something is made.

This is a result of companies like Walmart offering cheap goods for cheap prices. The average consumer of today, doesn't know the difference between cheap and quality goods, and doesn't care either. We have become a disposable society as a result.

Sears can either make themselves competitive in this new environment, or go the way of Montgomery Ward. Sears is trying to compete on a equal footing with what the customers want. They can't compete today, doing what they did 20 or 30 years ago. The average customer just won't pay the additional cost for service like it used to be.

A highly skilled workforce is expensive, which means Sears would have to raise prices. Compared to other stores, like Walmart, I think Sears is still pretty decent for the times.Agreed

Here is an interesting MSN article (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/HomeDepotShaftingShoppers.aspx) that I read a while ago. It sums up the problem.

[eschoendorff]

They may have calculated that it is not worth keeping more than one or two of those drill presses on hand even though it is a frequent sale item. It may be more profitable to them to loose a sale to you than to over stock the item.

Fine. Feck 'em then.

[eschoendorff]

They've never refused me an exchange, they're online system has worked for me, and the employees in the tool department have gone out of their way and been helpful and knowledgeable in my dealings.


Must be nice... you are in the minority.


... but I have a hard time believing they're purposely baiting and switching to cheat consumers. When an item's on sale, it may be they're getting rid of a certain model, it then sells out, and they're aren't any more available. That happens everywhere.


I am sorry, but that is just naive thinking. Sears used to be an honest American establishment, but they clearly demonstrate otherwise.



NO retail store is like it was in the 1970's, it's just not a Sears thing. You used to be able to go to a hardware store, and have a knowledgeable and skilled person help you, but now you go to a store like Home Depot, and you're lucky if the person can speak English. Consumers want cheap, and they usually don't give a damn about service, quality or where something is made. Sears can either make themselves competitive in this new environment, or go the way of Montgomery Ward. A highly skilled workforce is expensive, which means Sears would have to raise prices. Compared to other stores, like Walmart, I think Sears is still pretty decent for the times.


My local hardware store is still like the old time hardwares of yesteryear - except they sell the same made in China crap that everyone else sells. But the customer service is great. I shoulda stopped buy to see if tehy had any drill presses....


It's not like Sears is rolling in the dough, just take a look at their quarterly profits, it's public information. Their profits plunged 40% just last year.


Hmmmm..... I wounder why... why oh why could that be?????


Every company can't be all things to all people. Consumers just need to decide what level of service/support is acceptable to them, and they need to be ready to pay for it.

Apparently. Sears is just getting fat and lazy in my opinion. It's like they're not even trying anymore. It is really quite sad...

[russlaferrera]

Esch,

I
And one other thing...I want your tools, tool cabinet, and new Delta drill press right now. I can't wait until you die.

So much for being subtle. Reminds me of a kid telling his parents.

My answer to my son would be," You are welcome to everything I own...AFTER I am done with it. :lol_hitti

[Itzkwik]

Ed,
thought you might appreciate this. Did some work for a Sears store today. Had to check in with the manager. Went back to their office to wait for her. Looked up on the wall and saw this in big, bold Sears blue lettering:
FAST-IN STOCK-FRIENDLY SERVICE
Guess its part of their Mission Statement
I thought about this thread and had to laugh.

[eschoendorff]

Ed,
thought you might appreciate this. Did some work for a Sears store today. Had to check in with the manager. Went back to their office to wait for her. Looked up on the wall and saw this in big, bold Sears blue lettering:
FAST-IN STOCK-FRIENDLY SERVICE
Guess its part of their Mission Statement
I thought about this thread and had to laugh.

Well, it's the thought that counts, right??? Oh, wait - Nope. Not good enough. :lol:

[Abodyracer]

[/B]


This is where the problem lies. Some people want instant gratification and want the item now. Others want to buy it as inexpensively as possible, and are willing to do Internet shopping. It costs a lot of money to staff and inventory merchandise, and if it isn't doing the number of sales per month to justify stocking it in the store, then it is dropped from the stores inventory list. Having a store, I know this problem first hand. People expect us to stock every item that they could possibly want, and then when they come into the store to purchase it, they are comparing our price with an Internet store price. They then weigh the difference in cost and decide if the additional cost is worth it to them. Some of these items are date coded and perishable, so if they don't have sufficient turns a month, then we have no choice to drop the item. We can't return out of date items, and the profit margins are not sufficient to take the loss.
My wife was looking for a Hershey Chocolate baking cocoa last week, and can no longer find it in the local store. I called Hershey's in PA and asked where it could be purchased. After checking the bar code number, I was told that it had been discontinued due to a lack of sales. The retail world is changing, and for those of us that are used to the old world, we also are going to have to learn to adapt. I have a Sears drill press that I purchased in the 1960's. It isn't the type of item that will have lots of repeat sales, so it isn't going to be heavily stocked, or stocked at all, if the demand isn't there for purchases.

Very well put.:thumbup::thumbup:

It would be nice if everyone could understand this.