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Whats the tool situation in the UK?

billymade

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Hey, Moose! (or anyone else "over the pond") I have been reading your posts and obviously you are definitely into tools! Question: what is the situation in the UK in relation to tools, what brands do people buy, what is available, are there any British tool companies left (so many brands in the USA have gone now, because of the reduction of the manufacturing base here, similar in the UK?), are european tools favored over USA made stuff (e.g. stahlwille, Facom, Hazet etc.) and what is your tool collection and use of tools like? A bunch of questions I know but I find it fascinating to hear from people outside the USA and what their tool loves, hates, and obsessions are! Please fill us in on the UK and if you can what a european perspective would be.
OH, one last thing, USA EBAY (the obvious weakness of the US dollar has made this a viable option for people in other countries); what has your experiences been, how much have you purchased and how does your purchases compare to retail Snap-On prices?
 
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billymade

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I would like to hear anybody's perspective outside the USA; I just noticed Moose has been hanging around allot! So, I thought I would ask; please anyone that would like to, chime in! :)
 

lbgradwell

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I believe Moose is of Iowa origins (IIRC), or at least his father was. Don't know if he was born in the UK or just moved there as an adult for work, or worse - a woman..!
 

Moose-LandTran

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The amount of UK tool manufactures is small, which probably has something to do with the size of our country. all i can think of off-hand are Draper, Sealey and Britool. there are more, but nothing comes to mind right now.

Draper, for the most part is on level with Craftsman. they offer an "Expert" line which is just about the same as Craftsman's "Professional" line. i have 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" sets from Draper, which i think are very good. i don't plan on replacing them anytime soon and i use them 6 days a week as a tech. they've never let me down and you can't argue with the price either. shopping around can get you about 40% off list price. how much of their range is made over here, i don't know. nothing is marked as being made here.

Sealey do some stuff that's on par with craftsman, and some which is on par with Harbour Freight. i have a small selection of their tools, luckily the few i have are of fair quailty. they offer a larger range of tools, probably about the same amount as what craftsman offers with a bias towards the mechanic.

Britool, i believe, is the oldest of these three. they used to be very good quailty tools. they still are, but have dropped a little since the '80s when they were taken over by Stanley-Facom. quailty was lowered to improve profit. it didn't work out and many stopped buying their tools. they are coming back up, but slowly. i have one Britool wrench, no idea of its age, but it's good quality. Britool's range isn't so big. it's mostly the usual stuff wrenches/sockets/ratchets/screwdrivers/boxes/etc with no offerings for specialist tools.

Our DIY and auto parts store often carry their own lines. Of course, all manufactured elsewhere and stamped with their name. most of the time you can go between stores and the sets are exactly the same, apart from the logo and colour of the packaging. some are pretty good, and carry a lifetime warranty. most don't.

For the professional, Snap-on still sits at the top. Our dealers use Mercedes-Benz Vario and Sprinter vans, so they can't carry the same volume as your dealers, but they're usually well stocked. price-wise, what you pay a dollar we pay a pound (this is true for just about everything) so it seems to cost us twice as much. but it's all relative, still pricey but still the best. they truly are the choice of the professional.


there are Mac dealers around, but they're more scarce and have only been around for 20 or so years. not a well-known name over here, and i doubt they'll ever do well this side of the pond. i've been into the Mac van a coulple times, and it seems they want the same price as Snap-on for what really feel like inferior tools. their sockets seem to have "gimmicky" features and i just don't feel they're worth them prices they want. i don't own a single Mac tool. probably never will. i looked a set of triple-square drivers on the van once, half had round shanks and half had hex shanks. not impressed by that. especially not impressed considering the ~$120 pricetag.

we don't get Craftsman/proto/S-K/Blackhawk/Kobalt/etc over here. in fact, there are many brands i'd never heard of before joining.

European tools are good on the whole. Although a little hard to find at time, and often expensive. Facom are good, but again cost a lot and aren't easy to find. personally, i'm not a fan.

I have three Hazet tools, two special "cut out" sockets for doing strut nuts on MacPherson struts, and a spline socket for Bosch alternator pulley. all three are excellent quality. i bought them through VW TPS, as they make many VW-Audi factory tools. they have the VW, Seat, Skoda, Audi logos on them. there are lots of Hazet tools i lust after, and even though i've only got three, i know the quality won't disappoint.

Stahlwille are good, also expensive and hard to find. i haven't seen much of their stuff i'd choose over Snap-on though. i'd buy them for specialist tools, like i do with Hazet. but for things like wrenches/sockets/ratchets i'd pass.

An odd thing i've noticed is that European tool manufacturers, such as Facom/Hazet/Stahlwille, don't make 24" breaker bars. they only go up to 15-18" for some reason. i don't know why.

most of my wrenches are German-made Elora. i'm very happy with them. i got a good price and have almost every size from 5.5mm to 41mm. the tolerances are very tight. if you round it with an Elora wrench, you'll round it with a Snap-on one. their flare nut wrenches are very good too. very tight fit, sometimes needing a little tap to get them on rusty fittings, but they won't round anything.

There's also Matador, another German company which isn't easy to find. their tools are very good quailty, and they too supply OEM tools to VW-Audi. one thing i would reccomend is their trim removal tool. it can be bought through VW under the part number T10236 (it comes up on their system as "release tool") it's half the price of my Snap-on trim remover (which is ****) and it's absolutely brilliant. i buy them and sell/give them to friend because i think they're the best you can buy.

my tool collection varies. i have some 20 Snap-on Ratchets. from 1/4" flex-head hard-handle 936s (of which i've only ever seen one. and i own it!) to 36"-long 3/4" ratchets. i've tried all kinds of ratchets and like these far more than anything else. i have a fair collection of Snap-on 3/8" sockets and bit-drivers. as i said before, all my wrenches are Elora. my 1/2" Shallow/deep and chrome/impact sockets are Draper Expert. never broken or cracked one. i have some Stanley pliers, but prefer the worn-in no-name ones i found in the garage. probably 40 or so years old, but they're good. i think they're made in the UK. i have some Knipex pliers, which are very good, and i'd reccomend them to anyone.

hope that answers some questions. it's 4:30am and i'm off work sick, so my mind isn't staying focused so well.

any other questions, just ask. also, if anyone wants European tools shipped over, let me know, i'll try sort it out.
 

Moose-LandTran

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I believe Moose is of Iowa origins (IIRC), or at least his father was. Don't know if he was born in the UK or just moved there as an adult for work, or worse - a woman..!

Nope, Moose is a Brit born and bred. both parents are Brits too. Do want to move to the US, and am in the process of working it out. my ex is a Floridian, and she did make me want to move sooner. didn't work out, but i'm still going as she's moving to the UK!
 

Moose-LandTran

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OH, one last thing, USA EBAY (the obvious weakness of the US dollar has made this a viable option for people in other countries); what has your experiences been, how much have you purchased and how does your purchases compare to retail Snap-On prices?

I've probably spent $2,000-3,000 on Snap-on on eBay US. i go on there all the time. with the exchange rate, by the time US bidders have reached the max they'll pay, i'm at my half-way point. i've bought all kinds of goodies off there. most of what i buy from their is either specialist stuff that's no longer made, or just out-of-production stuff. (things with orange plastic handles in particular) i can buy pretty much new Snap-on from eBay US, have it shipped here and it still works out cheaper. my money goes further on there.

very little of my Snap-on has been purchased new. mostly i buy it new at times where i need it there and then, or it's on special.

i think in total i've probably spent ~$10,000 on tools. as i said before, it's all relative so that's like you guys realistically spending $5,000.
 

lbgradwell

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Nope, Moose is a Brit born and bred. both parents are Brits too.

Yep, OK; I knew you must have at least been in the UK for a while to say things like "brilliant" and "some" in the sense you did!:) (I have Canadian, US & British citizenship, so I'm fluent in Brit-speak!)

... and it's absolutely brilliant.

...i have some 20 Snap-on Ratchets.

I don't know where I got the impression you were a US ex-pat... Did you maybe say your Dad had some Duro-Chromes "from the farm" or something? Someone did!

also, if anyone wants European tools shipped over, let me know, i'll try sort it out.

Nice offer. Do you ever see vintage 3/8" Britool ratchets? I'd like one of those...
 

Moose-LandTran

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Yep, OK; I knew you must have at least been in the UK for a while to say things like "brilliant" and "some" in the sense you did!:) (I have Canadian, US & British citizenship, so I'm fluent in Brit-speak!)

haha, i have an odd way of talking. despite getting an A in English, a lot of the way i talk is wrong. i.e. - "Bought me some nice Snap-on from eBay. i were pretty pleased with that." just a weird thing about me i guess. i'm fluent in American but when i go there i often talk as i do here. for some reason, American ladies like the accent and the way we talk. when i was in Florida, a few asked if i really was British. "No, love. i'm just pretending."


I don't know where I got the impression you were a US ex-pat... Did you maybe say your Dad had some Duro-Chromes "from the farm" or something? Someone did!


wasn't me. although my dad is from the west country, he's never worked on a farm. nor does he own and Duro-Chromes. i do, however, believe there's another user with a similar username. i wanted Moose, but it told me it was taken.

Nice offer. Do you ever see vintage 3/8" Britool ratchets? I'd like one of those...

send me a pic/model number and i'll keep an eye out. i come accross them from time to time.
 

Merkava_4

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Moose:

The Germans do a good job of keeping Chinese **** out of their country, what about you Brits? Do you have Harbour Freight over there?
 

lbgradwell

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send me a pic/model number and i'll keep an eye out. i come accross them from time to time.

Thanks Moose, but I have no idea re: a model number. I have seen very few vintage Britool ratchets online & none in person. I just want a vintage "Made-in-England" 3/8" model in excellent condition. If you find one cheap at a flea market or garage sale, keep me in mind!

That would fit well in my father's collection. Too bad shipping is the killer for here. He's got some old Durochrome (sp?) stuff from when he was growing up in Iowa.

Riiiiight... It was the Australian guy...
 

Moose-LandTran

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We don't have Harbour Freight. unfortunately, we do get some similar stuff. not such a quantity, but it's around. the "driveway mechanic" isn't so common over here, as it is in the US. so there's less demand for cheap tools. with European cars having lots of electrical gadgetry and the like, often you can't fix a problem without a diagnostics machine.

i'll buy some cheap imported stuff. i don't care so much where it's made, so long as the quality meets my own standards (i'm very picky) if it doesn't, i'll find a better option from another manufacturer.
 

Moose-LandTran

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Thanks Moose, but I have no idea re: a model number. I have seen very few vintage Britool ratchets online & none in person. I just want a vintage "Made-in-England" 3/8" model in excellent condition. If you find one cheap at a flea market or garage sale, keep me in mind!

What about something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Britool-Socke...ryZ20773QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Ratch...ryZ30917QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or are you looking for a 3/8" in particular? or one you can actually use?
 
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billymade

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So you are tech, where do you work (dealership?) and what types of cars do you work on (noticed you mentioned VAG:VolkswagenAudiGroup quite a bit)? Is the "driveway mechanic" not as common because it is not cost effective; do they have a equivalent to the "TUV" (government mandated safety inspections/standards/repairs) like they do in Germany? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection I have been to Germany and they say on average people keep their cars for 5 years and then buy new, because to keep up with the TUV just costs too much in repairs!
 

Moose-LandTran

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We don't really have ones you can walk into. we have J&L Industrial Supply (as you in the US have) which offers specialist supplies for industrial metalworking.

there are importers/suppliers that can get hold of them on order. and a couple places online that sell them. (i know of two places that sell Stahlwille, one that sells Gedore, and one that sells Hazet.)
 

lbgradwell

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Yes, both of those oldies are very interesting; especially that Whitworth set with the excellent box!! I wonder why they don't turn up when I search from here? I also wonder what the S&H would be to Toronto...

I don't really intend to use the 3/8" ratchet, but it must actually be useable!
 
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Moose-LandTran

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So you are tech, where do you work (dealership?) and what types of cars do you work on (noticed you mentioned VAG:VolkswagenAudiGroup quite a bit)? Is the "driveway mechanic" not as common because it is not cost effective; do they have a equivalent to the "TUV" (government mandated safety inspections/standards/repairs) like they do in Germany? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection I have been to Germany and they say on average people keep their cars for 5 years and then buy new, because to keep up with the TUV just costs too much in repairs!


I'm one of those 19-year-old self-taught techs. no training, but always learning. at 18 i was running a tyre shop, now work at a workshop and fix anything that comes in. we have everything come in, from diesel Grand Voyagers to Ferraris and Lamborghinis. (i've driven an F430 Scuderia at work. my manager told me to move it as i had clean hands!)

i'm a bit of a VAG fan, they're engineered very well and working on them is great. timing marks, easy to remove entire front ends etc. i also like a challenge though.

I don't know why the driveway mechanic died out. my guess is that cars became more complex and complicated, with extensive electronics and sensors all over the place it made things harder to diagnose. new cars have so much stuff on them it's crazy. even as far as load sensors on the wishbones, to allow electro-hydraulic anti-roll bars to control body roll. without the expensive diagnostics, sometimes you'd never find the fault.

we have an equivalent to the TUV inspections. ours are MOTs (ministry of transport inspection) you have one when the car's 3 years old, and then yearly after that. keeping a car in order to pass can be costly. (i've done work costing up to $3,000 to get a car to pass) but for an extra $100 i can get it done without taking the car with me. *nudge nudge, wink wink*
 
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billymade

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Do you use the ROSSTECH VagCOM? http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/ I bought one for my 1.8T (180HP, 6 speed trans, sport suspension) 02' New Beetle Turbo S and it has paid for itself the first time I used it (airbag light, bad seat buckle). I was a old air cooled guy for years but now with my New Beetle I am learning about fixing these new VWs; it can be a challenge but the tool is a must have for repairing the VAG platform!
 

Moose-LandTran

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Nope, we have the factory VAG 5050. (i believe it's also called a VAGCOM, can't remember) but it's huge. it's like a tower PC on its side, with a touch screen built in.

we get some good handheld VAG computers here for good prices. i'm looking at one i may have to invest in.

My manager worked for VW for almost 20 years. he has a lot of specialist VW-Audi tools. the 5050 is a dealer-only machine. but it's all about who you know. we also have a mercedes-benz/Daimler Star 2000 machine, a Launch (kinda crappy) and a new Slus Pro at work. a friend of mine has a Bosch KTS570, which is very good. but expensive.

Those 1.8 engines are good to work on. timing belts are easy. timing marks, simple precedure. only pain in the *** is replacing the chain at the flywheel side. as they use a single cam pulley at the front and then a chain at the back to drive the other cam. luckily, i believe the chains are good for some 120,000 miles.

that's all if i remember correctly. there are a few versions of the 1.8 turbo/non-turbo.
 
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billymade

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If you ever take some shots of your shop (where you work) and rollaway etc. that would be cool; would be interesting to see what a shop is like in the UK vs. one in the USA!
 
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Its too bad I don't live in the UK, I'm currently living in Malta the most southern country in Europe. At least the UK has a Snap On distribution centre. The tools we get are Draper which are good, Clarke and Britool if you can find them. Beta is a great tool as well.


I was born and raised in Toronto Canada which means that when I was young I stocked up on Gray, Mastercraft and other tools
 

AndrewHR

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We also have Clarke, Silverline, Stanley. All mid-lower range quality. As Moose said, Britool (older stuff) Facom and Stahwille at upper end quality wise. I tend to buy alot of my tools in the US (i visit family once a year) and bring them back with me. We have offices in the US so i will also get collegues to act as a tool mule and order off snap on web site. Ebay is great for getting some of the older makes of spanner (wrench for you USAers) such as Elora, Gordon and King ****, all of which are good tools.
 
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JayL

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I was once stationed in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia in particular had a strong presence of Hazet Tools. Snap on was available but was quite expensive. I know for a fact that The Saudi Arabia Airlines use SO tools as I have a lot of aircraft mechanic friends working there.
 

eschoendorff

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Wow... this is a great thread!!!!!! i have been a fan of European tools for sometime.... I have a real soft spot for FACOM (pre Stanley).

Both my wife and I would love to try living in the UK one of these days... If we could find teaching jobs out there...
 

Moose-LandTran

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Wow... this is a great thread!!!!!! i have been a fan of European tools for sometime.... I have a real soft spot for FACOM (pre Stanley).

Both my wife and I would love to try living in the UK one of these days... If we could find teaching jobs out there...

My best advice for you would be to come here for about a month in the winter. if you can like it it winter time, you're set. because it's always ****** winter here. it rains, it's cold and we complain about it.

Some teaching jobs (inner London) can pay up to $90,000/year. but the reason for the high pay is that it's a pretty dangerous job. in some parts, particularly some parts of London, there's a good chance you'll get stabbed by one of your students.

think i'm kidding? i'm not. this year 17 under 18s have been murdered over here. it's getting less pleasant daily.
 

vssjim

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I have some King **** wrenches that are quite nice as are the older Britool British made wrenches unlike the imported Britool stuff of today, also some Sykes Pickavant. The S-P body tools are still British made but unsure of the whole line as Britool and S-P are both owened by some type of investor/fund groups not tool guys so that usually means ruin a name after buying it with shaky imported tools.
 

Moose-LandTran

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If you ever take some shots of your shop (where you work) and rollaway etc. that would be cool; would be interesting to see what a shop is like in the UK vs. one in the USA!

I will get some pics when i'm back at work next week. been off sick for a few days. it's a pretty big shop. looks like an underground carpark with ramps. well, it pretty much is.

i'll try find the pics of my old shop. pretty small place, you guys will probably never have seen such a small tyre shop!
 

wilbilt

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I will g looks like an underground carpark with ramps. well, it pretty much is.

i'll try find the pics of my old shop. pretty small place, you guys will probably never have seen such a small tyre shop!

An underground shop sounds intriguing. It has to be better than 12 bays open to a freezing wind. Brr.

I have worked in (and out of) some pretty small ti(y)re shops. Small shop just means you have to stack them higher. :beer:
 

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My best advice for you would be to come here for about a month in the winter. if you can like it it winter time, you're set. because it's always ****** winter here. it rains, it's cold and we complain about it.

Some teaching jobs (inner London) can pay up to $90,000/year. but the reason for the high pay is that it's a pretty dangerous job. in some parts, particularly some parts of London, there's a good chance you'll get stabbed by one of your students.

think i'm kidding? i'm not. this year 17 under 18s have been murdered over here. it's getting less pleasant daily.

Isnt that why they came out with the slash proof jacket over there?
 
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billymade

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