View Full Version : Home A/C Question...


jbmorrey
05-28-2013, 11:08 AM
I know this is not for my garage, but I was hoping that somone here might be able to answer this...My outside A/C is sometimes not kicking on. I have a warranty company that keeps sending the same guys out and they have been out 5 times. This is what they are telling me. The compressor and fan outside are shutting off because of a faulty breaker that keeps tripping. He showed me what he does, he shuts off the breaker, turns it back on and then goes inside the house, unplugs the inside A/C and then plugs it back in, at which point you can hear the Freon start to flow and the outside fan and compressor are on and cool air is blowing. After about 3 hours, the A/c started again not blowing cold, still blowing, just not cold. So I looked outside and sure enough, the outside unit was not on and the inside unit was blowing and runnig. I went to check the breaker, and it was not tripped. I unplugged the inside unit and plugged it back in, outside fan comes on, cool air blowing. So what I have easily come to the conclusion is that for some reason, unplugging the inside unit and plugging it back in is kick starting the outside unit. it is not a breaker issue. What could possibly cause this? I have an Amana A/C unit. Thanks so much if someone can give me an idea so I can point these warranty A/C people in the right direction!!

James M

pattenp
05-28-2013, 11:55 AM
Sorry to say it could be a number of things. The only thing that is going on between the two units by powering off the inside unit and turning it back on is you are also shutting off the low voltage supply to the outside unit. So it could be a sticking 24V solenoid or faulty control board. :dunno:

Iron Cat
05-28-2013, 12:11 PM
Not to derail your thread OP, weve been having somewhat the same issue, our outside fan continues to run but neither cold or hot air blow.Our ac guy swears its the thermostat we installed.(cheap home depot thermo).

philjafo
05-28-2013, 12:41 PM
Sounds like both of you need to find new ac guys.

James, unplugging the indoor part is just resetting the controller, if it was the breaker then the breaker would be tripped.

Ironcat, if the fan in the condenser is running then the thermostat likely isn't the problem, it is possible if it wasn't wired correctly though.

jbmorrey
05-28-2013, 01:51 PM
Well, the outside unit is brand new, that was what was originally thought as to be the problem, so they warrantied the outside unit and brought in a new one. This control board that you mentioned Philjafo, is it located in the inside unit? It sounds like reseting it by unplugging and plugging back in is somehow sending a signal to the outsiode unit to kick on. does that make sense? What are your thoughts?

philjafo
05-28-2013, 02:01 PM
I'm sorry but if the problem could be easily diagnosed over an internet msg board then the person that has been out there 5 times would have been able to find the problem. One thought is the thermostat, if its digital the batteries may be dying and after running for a while they can't hold the relay in. Then resetting everything let's it work for a while. It could also be a relay on the control board for the furnace with a loose solder joint. Try new batteries in the tstat and if that don't work call another HVAC company.

Jagmandave
05-28-2013, 02:58 PM
OK, since we're in A/C mode.......my home A/C short cycles, it kicks on, gets nice and cool, runs for as little as a minute, then kicks off. Goes thru the programmed delay for the head pressure to bleed off, restarts and does the same thing. If I leave it alone eventually it runs just fine, the house cools down nicely and eventually shuts off. When it restarts it may do the whole short cycle thing again, or it may work normally.

My first thought was a clogged up condensor causing excessive high head pressure, but it's not, it's clean as a whistle. My next thought was tired batteries in the thermostat so I changed them. Same deal.

When it kicks on everything seems normal, the fans outside and inside are all running, and it's not freezing the A-coil like it's low on freon.

Ideas?

sorry for the hijack, I'll start another thread if preferred.

pattenp
05-28-2013, 03:18 PM
Has the unit been charged recently? Could be over charged. Also the pressure switch may be malfunctioning.

OK, since we're in A/C mode.......my home A/C short cycles, it kicks on, gets nice and cool, runs for as little as a minute, then kicks off. Goes thru the programmed delay for the head pressure to bleed off, restarts and does the same thing. If I leave it alone eventually it runs just fine, the house cools down nicely and eventually shuts off. When it restarts it may do the whole short cycle thing again, or it may work normally.

My first thought was a clogged up condensor causing excessive high head pressure, but it's not, it's clean as a whistle. My next thought was tired batteries in the thermostat so I changed them. Same deal.

When it kicks on everything seems normal, the fans outside and inside are all running, and it's not freezing the A-coil like it's low on freon.

Ideas?

sorry for the hijack, I'll start another thread if preferred.

Jagmandave
05-28-2013, 03:28 PM
It hasn't been charged since it was installed about 6 or 7 years ago.....

It usually does this the first couple of times I turn it on for the season, once the season gets going it seems to work normally.

Milton Shaw
05-28-2013, 04:24 PM
Jagmandave, see if your unit has a solenoid valve on the high side. It could be sticking and not letting freon circulate, giving low pressure low side and high pressure high side until the solenoid finally frees up. Usually you would have an extra high side service valve on compressor side of the solenoid. I had one that went bad and suction went to zero and so did high side, thought I had a big leak but all the freon was sitting in the condenser coil blocked by the solenoid.

Jagmandave
05-28-2013, 07:01 PM
Thanks Milton, I don't have gauges so I guess I'll have to have someone come out and check it over....I'm just looking for ideas like this so they don't give me the old "I added a pound of freon and it's fine now"....

jbmorrey
05-29-2013, 01:29 AM
well... today I had my 7th visit from the A/C people (Why do I keep calling them back?) well it's a home warranty and the warranty company keeps telling to come back!! At any rate, the A/C seems to be cooling, but of course there still seems to be an issue. the outside fan and compressor is turning on and off, even though the inside unit is not. granted when the inside unit comes on, the outside also comes on which is good. BUT when the inside is off, ever once in a while, the outside will kick on by itself and run, Any ideas? Or am I crazy and this is normal?

thanks!
James M

philjafo
05-29-2013, 02:42 AM
After 7 visits and not fixing the problem you need to talk to whoever is a manager or in charge at this warranty company because it sounds like they are trying to make good, but their HVAC contractor is ripping them off. Explain it to them like that and they might get you a real HVAC technician out there.

The other option is paying for a service call from a reputable company and having it fixed by someone that knows what their doing. Many offer a maintenance program that gets the annual service taken care of as part of the program.

Without being there to put gages on it this is just a wild ass guess based on the symptoms you've described. It's under warranty so its fairly new, means it uses r410a, and if it was charged using the same methods as r22 it could be overcharged. Like I said just a guess based on symptoms.

Improper installation is the fastest way to kill an HVAC system, and odds are if it was installed wrong it will suffer a catastrophic failure immediately after the warranty runs out. Just my opinion though your results may vary.

CNGsaves
05-29-2013, 06:52 AM
So it's Amana brand, what model, where you located??

Time for competent HVAC company . . . wow, 7 visits from same company and you're still letting them on your property?? You've either got a lemon, or they don't have a clue what they're doing.

Arrange one last effort to fix the thing with another vendor who is specifically an expert on your particular HVAC model. If they can't fix it, yank the thing out and get full warranty replacement!!

jbmorrey
05-29-2013, 08:02 AM
I agree with you both, I am looking to get a reputable company to come out. last night I was sitting awake and recorded the following:
12:42 inside on , outside on
12:47 inside off,
12:49 outside off
then from 12:51 to 12:59, every minute the outside unit would come on for a minute and then shut off for a minute, it went on and off 4 times until on the 5th time, the inside unit also came back on at 12:59.
1:05 inside shut off and outside shut off 2 minutes later and we went back to the outside unit shutting on and off ever minute, listed to that until 1:14 and went to bed!! So what could that possibly be?


Amana ASX140481AA replaced on 8-04-06, I am located in San Antonio,TX. I am wondering if it's under warranty and if so, what is the process to file a claim to get it replaced? I still have the original installing companies receipt from the install. The unit was 2 years old when we purchased the house.

Thanks!!
James M

philjafo
05-29-2013, 10:10 AM
I usually deal with Goodman, same thing just a different name, but if you've got the model and serial numbers of the outdoor and indoor parts ill see if I can look up the warranty info for you. Also need your zip code.

mrobins297aaa
05-29-2013, 11:58 PM
Turn off the power first

easy way to check and see where the problem is:

inside the furnace disconnect all the wires from the thermostat should be red, white, green and yellow (maybe blue). 4 terminals R,W,G,Y

inside the furnace hook a jumper from R (24 volt) to G (starts the indoor fan) and a jumper from R to Y terminal (starts the outside unit, make sure that one of the two wires coming from the outside unit is on Y and the other on C).

with this set up the inside unit and outside should run continous, if it does than the problem is most likely with the thermostat or the wires connecting to it.

if the outside unit stops running and the indoor unit keeps running the problem is most likely with the outside unit or the wiring to it.

try that and let us know what happens

my guess is you have a bad thermostat or a low voltage wire from the thermostat touching some where

tgb
05-30-2013, 10:21 PM
I've been in the trades for 20 years and my thought is your thermostat wire has a short in it some where.

dbonne
05-31-2013, 08:06 AM
^^WHAT THEY SAID^^

I'm in with the last 2 posters. Thermostat or wiring.

jbmorrey
06-02-2013, 12:40 AM
Well all A/C is now finally working, I don't know the exact details but there was a wire that was sending a signal to the outside unit to turn on and turn off. the wire was actually in the inside A/C unit, something about it not being wired correctly. This was done while my wife was at the house and I was at work so that is all I know. thanks though for everyone's help and ideas. it was kinds funny to see the guys face when I told him about the ideas that everyone here had.... He looked at me like " since when does the homeowner know what he is talking about!!" He actually answered "Yea, that's what I was going to check!" too funny!