Acetelyne & Oxygen Tanks

[JayL]

I just acquired the Victor Set below. I have a problem because I cant' find B tanks to buy locally here in Manila. What is available are the regular sized tanks but are too big. I do need at least some degree of portability. My question is will these work with the small tanks. At least these I could import from the USA without much hassle as they would fit in the regular cargo boxes used by the cheaper priced freight forwarders operating this route.

Any suggestions please. ... tks

[gibbon_guy]

The size of the tanks should not matter. As long as the fittings match up, you should be fine.

[ephotrod]

For B tanks you have to buy an adapter but all welding supply stores LWS have them and they are fairly cheap.
Josh

[tatra]

just for fun, why are they coded, a, b, and m?..............those that know, sit back and enjoy the ride................now the b tanks are the most popular and yet the a is smaller and the m i smallest of all.....................again , lets see the thought process.................and we'll have the answer , say thurs..........and ocg is not allowed to give any hints but you can look at his car ..................

[Junkman]

MC is motorcycle, and B is bus....... never knew what the A tanks were.... Learned this useless fact when I was first getting into old cars in the 1950... long before collecting old cars was fashionable... :thumbup:

[Moose-LandTran]

A = Aeroplane/Aviation?

[malibu101]

I'm not trying to split hairs but here my supply house calls the MC cylinders, not M.
I knew that B was for bus. I thought MC stood for motorcycle/car.
I can't say I've ever heard of an A cylinder.

[cweagle]

I just acquired the Victor Set below. I have a problem because I cant' find B tanks to buy locally here in Manila. What is available are the regular sized tanks but are too big. I do need at least some degree of portability. My question is will these work with the small tanks. At least these I could import from the USA without much hassle as they would fit in the regular cargo boxes used by the cheaper priced freight forwarders operating this route.

Any suggestions please. ... tks

I know that this isn't the answer that you're looking for but - you should really consider buying a larger tank than a 'B' (the 40CF one). It depends on what you're doing, but really, for anything larger than very very thin sheet metal or jewelery, you won't be able to get a safe flow rate out of the small tanks.

Now I'm sure a bunch of people will say 'but I do that all the time', and they might be right, but it is dangerous. The acetylene is stored in these tanks dissolved in acetone (the solvent), not as a high-pressure gas like in oxygen tanks. If you try to withdraw acetylene too quickly, you end up drawing acetone out instead. This is BAD BAD BAD for the regulators, hoses, and your face if you are too close to the flame (which will get very impressive very quickly).

The rule of thumb is that you should not draw at greater than 1/7 capacity per hour. That is, all tanks should be sized to last at least 7 hours. For a 40CF tank (B size) that works out to 5.7CF/hr. Check the guide for your welding tips; you'll find that a tip for 1/16" steel is about all you can manage at that flow rate. Cutting is out, and heating tips are WAY out of the question. The little tiny MC tanks (10CF) are much worse. The hardware stores sell welding sets with these around here and say things like 'can weld 1/2" steel' - but don't say "if you buy a 150CF tank instead of this thing we're selling you".

Another thing to consider - at least in my area (Northeast US), it is very close to the same cost to get different size tanks filled. The cost of the gas, for smallish tanks, is a small portion of the total transaction cost - overhead of handling the tanks, labor for filling, paperwork, hydrotesting, etc etc - is most of the cost. For example, I paid $25 to fill a friend's 20CF MIG tank, and then $35 to fill my 80CF. You'll save money in the long run with a larger tank.

Here is a list of the standard Acetylene sizes: http://www.indweld.com/acetylene.htm

And other cylinder sizes: http://www.indweld.com/gas-cylinders.htm

So that's my diatribe for the day. Maybe you're doing light brazing or something that uses very little gas. But I see a lot of misinformation about this topic, and it bothers me.

By the way, once I got a MIG, I converted my gas welding set to oxy-propane. It's a little cooler, so you can't really weld (it's possible, but very very slow) but brazing, heating, and cutting are all good, and the propane is much cheaper than acetylene (I use a 20lb gas grill tank).

[JayL]

I have finally decided to set up my Oxy-Acetelyne welding rig. I have the victor torch posted and am wondering if I need to install additional flash back arrestors. I am a newbie on this but have done quite a bit of reading to help me get started. As such my first and foremost concern for now is safety first. Please advise.

In addition I already ordered 2 fire extinguishers.

tks

[Moose-LandTran]

Get flashback arrestors. Don't ever use oxy-acteylene gear without them.

[chammyman]

whats a flashback arrestor?

I have to say its fun living with the danger, i loved the oxy/ace. 3 big incidents I can recall when I was near it.

3. Jonah (yes what a name) was down the pit with me burning off a track tube, a bit of molten metal hit the hoxe like I had warned him it would. Anyway burst the pipe and the hose was on fire flailing about in the pit with us.

2. I was burning out a cylinder liner on a scania truck over the pit again. I was sitting on the engine and it was number 2 I was burning out. It was all going swimmingly until some diesel or something behind the liner caught fire, very quickly. I was engulfed in flames for a split second and had ringing in my ears for a day or so. I carried on burnign the liner out then the porta power could move it. It was in a real mess thats why it was burned out.

1. I was on the other side of the workshop the bottles were beside the store behind the MOT ramp, they were turned off and 2 of the boys were in the store behind the bottles. All of a sudden there was a very loud bang and flames were shooting for the stars. The boy dived out of the storeroom and the firebrigade and police came. They shut the railway down and emptied most of the river cart into the garage.

[trackwelder]

I know that this isn't the answer that you're looking for but - you should really consider buying a larger tank than a 'B' (the 40CF one). It depends on what you're doing, but really, for anything larger than very very thin sheet metal or jewelery, you won't be able to get a safe flow rate out of the small tanks.

Now I'm sure a bunch of people will say 'but I do that all the time', and they might be right, but it is dangerous. The acetylene is stored in these tanks dissolved in acetone (the solvent), not as a high-pressure gas like in oxygen tanks. If you try to withdraw acetylene too quickly, you end up drawing acetone out instead. This is BAD BAD BAD for the regulators, hoses, and your face if you are too close to the flame (which will get very impressive very quickly).

The rule of thumb is that you should not draw at greater than 1/7 capacity per hour. That is, all tanks should be sized to last at least 7 hours. For a 40CF tank (B size) that works out to 5.7CF/hr. Check the guide for your welding tips; you'll find that a tip for 1/16" steel is about all you can manage at that flow rate. Cutting is out, and heating tips are WAY out of the question. The little tiny MC tanks (10CF) are much worse. The hardware stores sell welding sets with these around here and say things like 'can weld 1/2" steel' - but don't say "if you buy a 150CF tank instead of this thing we're selling you".

Another thing to consider - at least in my area (Northeast US), it is very close to the same cost to get different size tanks filled. The cost of the gas, for smallish tanks, is a small portion of the total transaction cost - overhead of handling the tanks, labor for filling, paperwork, hydrotesting, etc etc - is most of the cost. For example, I paid $25 to fill a friend's 20CF MIG tank, and then $35 to fill my 80CF. You'll save money in the long run with a larger tank.

Here is a list of the standard Acetylene sizes: http://www.indweld.com/acetylene.htm

And other cylinder sizes: http://www.indweld.com/gas-cylinders.htm

So that's my diatribe for the day. Maybe you're doing light brazing or something that uses very little gas. But I see a lot of misinformation about this topic, and it bothers me.

By the way, once I got a MIG, I converted my gas welding set to oxy-propane. It's a little cooler, so you can't really weld (it's possible, but very very slow) but brazing, heating, and cutting are all good, and the propane is much cheaper than acetylene (I use a 20lb gas grill tank).

This above is good advice in which you really should follow. I have been burned from withdrawing to much acetylene from tanks. I have ruined hoses and torches from not taking the time to manifold tanks when needed. In the winter time I have manifolded as many as three 300cuft tanks to get the proper flow. Getting burned or hurt on the jobs sucks!!!

[goodfellow]

That's why welding gear sold with small portable cylinders (10CF acetylene and 20CF oxygen) are labeled "light duty". They have smaller hoses, smaller inlets/outlets and seats, and very light duty regulators. You can still draw acetone into the regulator when using the cutting attachment, but the regulator flow gauge indicates the "danger zone" quite clearly.

The main problem with the Victor set the OP has, is that it is intended for larger cylinders -- not portables. You can use adaptors to make it fit, but it is not intended for that application.

[a390st]

Man, if you're going to be doing anything more than heating up a bolt or something, which you could do with a cylinder of MAP gass, you need to get a real set of tanks. I used a torch all the time, and you really need bigger tanks to do anything worthwhile. As everyone has said, it is dangerous to use O/A if you don't know what you're doing. You just can't safely get the flow you need to do most jobs without a set of A size tanks. I used MC tanks when I was gunsmithing, but was working on very small items.

[JayL]

I forgot to mention I will be going for the bigger tanks.

Anybody has an idea of a good flashback arrestor?


http://www.amazon.com/VICTOR-FLAMEBUSTER-FLASHBACK-ARRESTOR-TORCH/dp/B001DZGM4O/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1223319998&sr=1-30

http://www.amazon.com/VICTOR-FLAMEBUSTER-FLASHBACK-ARRESTOR-REGULATOR/dp/B001DZIMMO/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1223319998&sr=1-29

tks

[JayL]

Is it better to install a Flash Back Arrestor on the torch side or on the regulator side.

How about reverse flow check valves?

Which configuration do you think will be more safer and effective. IF I understand correctly from what I have read so far that an over kill will not be good too as gas flows will be restricted.

Please help.

Thanks....

[trackwelder]

At my job we are required to have check valves on the torch and flash arrestors at the regulators.

[JayL]

At my job we are required to have check valves on the torch and flash arrestors at the regulators.

What brands do you use?

tks

[russlaferrera]

Check, I think Victor has check valves built in the torch.

[russlaferrera]

[QUOTE=JayL;296890]I forgot to mention I will be going for the bigger tanks.

Wise choice. IF you purchased "B" tank (S). They would probably have to send it out to be filled. You would need a back-up tank while you wait for the 1st tank to be returned. Also you are responsible for making sure the tank (S) are inspected every 10 years. Also little tanks cost more to fill.

The 75cf tanks are better and cheaper to fill in the long run. When MT return get a new one.


PS Franz how am I doing?

[JayL]

My Victor torch is model WH-350C. Anybody can please confirm this has a built in check valve or flash back arrestor.

I'll go ahead and get a VICTOR FBR-1 FLAMEBUSTER FLASHBACK ARRESTOR for the regulator @ $73.

tks

[JayL]

How do you store your Oxygen and Acetylene tanks when not in use for a considerable amount of time. Do I need to remove the hoses and regulators and store the tanks separately?

[a390st]

The Victor kit I used for years had the check valves at the torch. The kit came that way. I never had any problems with it.

[russlaferrera]

How do you store your Oxygen and Acetylene tanks when not in use for a considerable amount of time. Do I need to remove the hoses and regulators and store the tanks separately?

I leave everything hooked up. Shut off the tank valves,Bleed the hoses, then unscrew the regulator screws till there is no pressure on them.

Google www.j & r welding supply.com and www.arrowsprings.com , also any major welding site they will give you gas/oxygen pressures and other info to keep ya safe.

[JayL]

Will these Harris flashback arrestors fit Victor regulators.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00920538000P?mv=rr

tks

[JayL]

Today I inspected the set and planned to use it for the first time. The hoses are ok so I proceeded to connect the regulators. Backed out all the knobs so these won't be hammered down when I open the bottles. The Acetylene regulator tested ok. However I encountered a problem with the Oxygen regulator. As soon as I open the gas bottle knob O2 comes out of the low pressure outlet. I retested again and the same problem.

I disconnected and I noticed that there is a banging sound inside the regulator when I try to shake it. Looks like something was disconnected inside.

I do plan to send this for repairs. Can anybody please give me an idea of what could have gone wrong before I go to have it fixed.

Thank you so much in advance.