Need electric heat

[JoeKramer]

I got a 1440 square foot garage with vaulted ceilings to 14' high. It’s a metal-sided building with no insulation, so I assume it will be hard to heat. It getting down to the low 40's right now and I want it up to the mid 60's, warmer would be better so I can paint. In a year or two I will look into insulation.

I don’t want to use fuel, as I want to put in a spray booth.

I was thinking of this one: Heater Link (http://www.thermalinc.com/comfort/Berko_unit.htm?tp=CONTINUE+SHOPPING)

It will do 34K BTU’s. I have a kerosene heater that kicks out 24K BTU’s and would help get the garage up to temp I figure.

What do you guys think?

[bmwpower]

All the electric heaters I've used haven't worked too well. This one looks bigger though. You really don't have too many choices for your situation.

[CraigFL]

It sounds expensive. It might be better to bite the bullet and insulate and pay less for heat...

[krooser]

You'll be amazed at how fast that electric meter will spin...better put a guard on it in case the little wheel breaks loose at high speed...

You'd be MUCH better off insulating FIRST...and get about an 80K btu REAL furnace or radiant heater...

[JoeKramer]

I have to keep in mind that I am hitting a glass celing with my power usage in my garage to. I only have 100 amps (220) out there. Sounds like a lot but lights alone are using 20 amps or so. My air compressor uses another 25. If I have anything else going, and I plan on it, I will be down to about 50 or 60 amps left for heat...

I will also need to get a celing fan to circulate the air.

[428]

I went with central heat and air, you could probably skip the air but an air handler with a heat strip will do a great job for heat. I ran mine for several years before finally insulating and sheetrocking. Electric bill went down a lot after that.
I forget the Kw on the heat strip but I had 2 returns and 6 supplys that are now in the ceiling.
My garage is about the same size as yours it looks like, and heats up quick.

But going electric I think I'd go central heat instead of a stand alone unit. It'll pull less amps and if you DIY, it shouldn't cost to much. And with electric you don't have to get permits and inspections unless you feel the need. :shocking:
Who'll know anyway?

Before I sheetrocked the ceiling I ran the supply lines to various parts of the shop using flex duct since I knew I'd rock it eventually. I ran them through the trusses and tied them off. So even if you keep the vaulted ceiling you can still run duct, for better appearence run rigid metal duct and paint it. Then you can spot where you want the heat instead of all coming from one corner. Or run trunk lines down both sides with vents every so often.

[sboxs]

any ideas on where to buy a central ac/heat unit for a diy project there is no gas on the property so it has to be oil or electric. if i did it my self electric would be much easier as the oil tanks are on the other side of the house by the way i have no insulation yet but its on the list

[JoeKramer]

Well it looks like the furnace will pull about 90 amps (coils and fan) and that would put my garage out of buisness (lights might not even run!) if I had anything kick on when the heat was running.

I would have to run the vents along the roof line as I have a lift in my shop and I jack the cars up between the rafters (or joists, what ever ya call em)...
http://www.joeshome.com/garage/lift07.jpg

[sboxs]

how would this work http://www.air-n-water.com/product/KFR-24GW.html do you think this will handle my 24x30x12 garage it will be well insulated with a 16r garage door i know little about these but it looks like from the description that this does both heat and ac

[JoeKramer]

The watage to BTU rating does not compute. 2500W should yeld ya around 8000 BTU's. I mean if it can get 24K BTU's out of only 2500W of power then I am totaly in cause its about 3 times more efficiant than all the other electric heaters!!

Must be to good to be true (would be worth the extra cost to me).

If it was all true I would get 2 myself...

[sboxs]

i'm thinking of 2 myself

[Stuart in MN]

I got a 1440 square foot garage with vaulted ceilings to 14' high. It’s a metal-sided building with no insulation, so I assume it will be hard to heat. It getting down to the low 40's right now and I want it up to the mid 60's, warmer would be better so I can paint. In a year or two I will look into insulation.

I don’t want to use fuel, as I want to put in a spray booth.

I was thinking of this one: Heater Link (http://www.thermalinc.com/comfort/Berko_unit.htm?tp=CONTINUE+SHOPPING)

It will do 34K BTU’s. I have a kerosene heater that kicks out 24K BTU’s and would help get the garage up to temp I figure.

What do you guys think?

Berko heaters like the one in your link are good quality and work well. I'm an electrical engineer, and I specify them all the time on commercial/municipal construction projects, for small rooms or buildings where gas unit heaters aren't appropriate. However, the 10kW unit will require a 60 amp, 240vac circuit. If you go this way you may want to consider two 5kW unit heaters - you'd need two 30 amp circuits, but they would be easier to install and on mild days you could probably get away with running only one heater.

Insulating the building is pretty important, otherwise you're wasting a lot of heat. You should do a heat loss calculation with and without insulation, it will help you see how much more heating capacity you'll need without it. There are a number of online calculators you can use, or talk to a local HVAC contractor and they can help you out.

[JoeKramer]

60 amps? The chart says that 10kW unit at 240V draws 42amps. I figured that putting it on a 50-amp breaker would work.

Insulation is not going to happen till late summer/early fall 2006. This power issue is killin me! Only got 100 amps 220V into the garage. I really really need to put a 200-amp service on my garage.

I want to have the freedom of being able to paint a car in the middle of winter when the temp is down at 40 degrees.

Stuart: did ya see that post about the 24K BTU heater/AC that draws 2470W??? Does this not figure?

[CraigFL]

The watage to BTU rating does not compute. 2500W should yeld ya around 8000 BTU's. I mean if it can get 24K BTU's out of only 2500W of power then I am totaly in cause its about 3 times more efficiant than all the other electric heaters!!

Must be to good to be true (would be worth the extra cost to me).

If it was all true I would get 2 myself...


It does that because it's a Heat Pump... much more efficient than straight electric heat. Unfortunately, the efficiency starts dropping off as the outside temp gets lower until it's at 1:1 maybe abot 20degrees (depending on the efficiency of the unit). Now if you made it a ground/water heat exchanger, it could be very efficient at all outside temps....

[Stuart in MN]

60 amps? The chart says that 10kW unit at 240V draws 42amps. I figured that putting it on a 50-amp breaker would work.

Insulation is not going to happen till late summer/early fall 2006. This power issue is killin me! Only got 100 amps 220V into the garage. I really really need to put a 200-amp service on my garage.

I want to have the freedom of being able to paint a car in the middle of winter when the temp is down at 40 degrees.

Stuart: did ya see that post about the 24K BTU heater/AC that draws 2470W??? Does this not figure?

A 50 amp circuit breaker may work, but it's right on the edge...according to the National Electric Code, a branch circuit for an electric space heater is supposed to be a minimum of 125% of the full load equipment. In this case, 42 amps x 125% = 52.5 amps, and the next largest circuit breaker is a 60 amp.

I looked at that 24,000 BTU split system heater / air conditioner, and it puzzles me as well. 1 kW = 3413 BTUs, so 2470W should equal 8430 BTU. I looked around online and found the operator's manual for that device and it says the same thing; however, judging by the language in the manual it's built somewhere in the far east so maybe something got mixed up in the translation.

edited to add: I just read Craig's answer above, I didn't think about it being a heat pump. That is a different deal, unfortunately it's out of my area of expertise - up here in Minnesota they aren't very common since it gets so cold here.

[JoeKramer]

Well... The heater for my house (forced air) is a heat pump and I looked to see what the breaker was and it was only 60amps. So maybe that little 2470 heater will kick out 24K BTUs...

[CraigFL]

......edited to add: I just read Craig's answer above, I didn't think about it being a heat pump. That is a different deal, unfortunately it's out of my area of expertise - up here in Minnesota they aren't very common since it gets so cold here.

When I lived in Fairmont, MN, I must have had the only Heat Pump in town. I had a super insulated house and a VERY efficient system for the time(SEER=12). I believe the efficiency was down to 1:1 at about 10 degrees, so as long as it was above 10, it was more efficient than electrical heat alone. Even southern MN is warmer than 10 on a lot of days. I would suspect that with modern, high efficiency units, the 1:1 point would be well below zero making the unit efficient to run most of the time. Most heat pumps have a set point that is set to about the 1:1 temperature so you are just using the aux electric heat at that time.