What will tools be like in the future?

[Merkava_4]

With all the talk in the news lately about electric cars, I've been asking myself some questions:

1. Will electric cars encourage the use of light weight exotic fasteners to lighten up the car and extend its range?

2. Will these new light weight high strength plastic like fasteners encourage the use of light weight plastic like tools?

3. Will I be able to accept light weight high strength tools?

I like heavy steel nuts and bolts and heavy steel tools; I'm not sure if I could adjust to these new tools of the future. :dunno:

[Fedwrench]

If by exotic you mean tamperproof, yes they'll be new fasteners coming out to keep the average person from messing with components that he shouldn't be messing with. Actually, I see manufacturers using fewer smaller fasteners in conjunction with advanced sealers to save weight. I think for the near term excessive costs will keep things like carbon fiber bolts out of an engine bay.
As for plastic tools, I'm sure that if the snap on name is on it you'll have no problems accepting it. However, you'll have to switch from chrome polish to plastic polish to keep that unused look.:lol:
I'd be more worried about auto manufacturers staying in business in the future than about the development of strong non metal fasteners. Design changes are constant but, the more they change, the more things remain the same.:beer:
Do you have too much time on your hands? No ebay auctions to complain about?

[davestlouis]

Light-weight exotic stuff costs big bucks to engineer, I don't see traditional fasteners and tools going anywhere any time soon. Look how long it took to convert from SAE to metric fasteners, it took almost 30 years, so don't fret about changes.

[Stuey]

Again you're going on about plastic fasteners?!

REPEAT (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18408)

Nope, and here's why:

1. cost
2. metal (steel) fasteners can be selected based on the desired specs - for almost any application, the appropriate fastener can be pulled off a shelf somewhere

Plastic fasteners have their uses. For example, two part polymer rivets are great for securing fans to a computer chassis.

Seriously, you worry about the oddest things. =)

[Merkava_4]

Again you're going on about plastic fasteners?!

This time I'm worried about the tools though. :D

Fedwrench,

What I mean by exotic, is tools made with nano technology. Every single molecule of the wrench is built atom by atom with nano robots about the same size as each molecule. By building a tool with each molecule purposely arranged to fit next to the other without leaving any gaps, you can build an extraordinarily strong tool that would weigh a fraction of a steel wrench.

[a390st]

I think we would be shocked if we saw the tools 50 years from now. I day that despite the similarity of tools today to the tools of 50 years ago. It looks like the role of composite and synthetic materials, not just plastics, is starting to really take off in manufacturing. I also think that moldings and "glue" are going to play a much larger role. The thing about tools is that a steel tool on a synthetic fastener may cause problems, so it may well be that tools make the change, too. I'm not saying that everything will change, but I think we would be surprised what all does.

[wrenchr]

You will be able to use a remote control to change direction on your ratchet!! lol

[Merkava_4]

The thing about tools is that a steel tool on a synthetic fastener may cause problems, so it may well be that tools make the change, too.

Exactly :pimpflash

[chammyman]

1. No they will be bonded together, indeed this is already happening. The joys of a throwaway society.

2. What will need tools will yes be made of something fancy no doubt.

3. I would

[Stuey]

This time I'm worried about the tools though. :D

Fedwrench,

What I mean by exotic, is tools made with nano technology. Every single molecule of the wrench is built atom by atom with nano robots about the same size as each molecule. By building a tool with each molecule purposely arranged to fit next to the other without leaving any gaps, you can build an extraordinarily strong tool that would weigh a fraction of a steel wrench.
OMG, not nano technology!! Not nano robots!

*rolls up sleeves*

Filling in "gaps" would make the overall material denser. If you then decrease the tool size to compensate for this, you might end up making the tool more fragile or prone to failure. If you don't decrease the tool size, you'll be left with a heavier tool.

Steel will NOT be replaced anytime in the future. Currently, we know a LOT about steel, and fabrication methods have been highly developed. Although the exact nano-structure is not custom-tailored for a particular application, the micro-structure is. The processing and heat treatment that steel goes through for tool fabrication is fairly complex, and is the reason why one brand new US-made wrench cost more than two dozen imported off-brand wrenches. This is why one US-made socket cost more than twenty off-brand imports.

Many "exotic" materials are not suitable to replace steel. Take zirconia, for example. It is a very hard, very durable material. There are several brands offering zirconia knives - kitchen and pocket knives. Sharpening must be done at the factory. You MUST NOT hit bone when using a zirconia knife on chicken or meat. You must NOT drop a zirconia knife. etc, etc. Let's not even take a look at the price tag of a zirconia knife vs. an okay branded stainless steel knife.

The technology to make fasteners and tools from "exotic" materials has been around for a while.

At one point there was a transition from wooden furniture to wooden product furniture. Now, we have knock-down furniture with fasteners that forty years ago would have confused the brightest of engineers. Which tools are commonly used for these odd looking fasteners? Philips or flat head screwdrivers, sometimes hex keys.

The number one driving force for change is cost. It simply will not be cheaper to produce "exotic material" fasteners than it is to produce steel fasteners. Period.

Let's repeat that. Exotic materials cost more than steel. ESPECIALLY when you use exotic materials to replace steel. Get used to it, steel is staying around for a while.

[wilbilt]

Look how long it took to convert from SAE to metric fasteners, it took almost 30 years, so don't fret about changes.

Convert to metric? What are you talking about? That's just crazy. :headscrat

The fasteners of the future will be bio-engineered. They will be organic, and tools will not be necessary. You will just have to touch them and they will unfasten themselves.

Kind of like that girl named Jill in my '65 Chevelle at the drive in way back when. :lol_hitti

[Merkava_4]

Filling in "gaps" would make the overall material denser. If you then decrease the tool size to compensate for this, you might end up making the tool more fragile or prone to failure. If you don't decrease the tool size, you'll be left with a heavier tool.


Then why are some forms of carbon fiber stronger than steel?

[Lyaec350]

Then why are some forms of carbon fiber stronger than steel?

??? Stronger? You need to define stronger.

Do you mean ultimate tensile strength? Ultimate tensile strength per unit mass? Number of total cycles before fatigue sets in? Deformability before failure?

Comparing carbon fiber and steel is like comparing apples and oranges, they're very different materials. Carbon fiber has a very good tensile strength/weight ratio, much better than steel. That doesn't necessarily mean that if you had two similarly sized bars, 1 of solid carbon fiber and 1 of solid steel that the carbon fiber would better resist forces. Another way to think about it is that if you designed a steel bar and a carbon fiber bar to withstand a certain force, the carbon fiber bar would weigh less.

Stuey was talking about taking a conventionally forged wrench and using nano technology to fill in the small irregularities that exist in even the best casting. Currently available nano fabrication methods do not allow a wrench to be built completely from scratch using nano tech, it's just not there yet.

[Thumper]

Nano my ass........just gimme a wrench.....and a hammer !!:bounce:

[Rickster]

How about a tool box that unlocks when you approach it, like that keyless pass-card system they have on that new Lincoln. Then you just touch the drawer and it slides open.

[a390st]

The problem with synthetic fasteners is that they will break if you aren't extremely careful with a metal tool on them. That is why I wouldn't be surprised to see tools made of very similar materials.

[chammyman]

How about a tool box that unlocks when you approach it, like that keyless pass-card system they have on that new Lincoln. Then you just touch the drawer and it slides open.

by new do you mean like 2001? We have had keyless entry for years, no keys either just a card.

[Stuey]

Then why are some forms of carbon fiber stronger than steel?

I think that Lyaec350 did a pretty good job of knocking down your CF argument!

I'll add in a few things just b/c I like arguing, er, I mean debating.

CF is very hard, and very rigid, but VERY brittle. Carbon fiber bicycle components must be secured using very precise torque measurements or else the parts can crack.

CF is VERY expensive, moreso than aluminum steel, typical plastic materials, and many other laminates such as fiber glass.

CF is a bit difficult to work with. What you don't want are fibers to be released in an uncontrolled environment - you DON'T want to breath that stuff in. Have you heard of asbestos?

CF panels and other shapes are typically (as far as I'm aware) fabricated by laminating weaved carbon sheets in alternating directions between layers of resin, I believe under some pressure.

Merkava, keep them coming - responding to you helps to keep me on my toes! Seriously! :beer:

[TheToolMan]

How about a tool box that unlocks when you approach it, like that keyless pass-card system they have on that new Lincoln. Then you just touch the drawer and it slides open.

they already have this check out snap-on's industrial tool boxes they can be ordered with this option

[DiStOrTiOn]

CF is very hard, and very rigid, but VERY brittle. Carbon fiber bicycle components must be secured using very precise torque measurements or else the parts can crack.

CF is VERY expensive, moreso than aluminum steel, typical plastic materials, and many other laminates such as fiber glass.

CF is a bit difficult to work with. What you don't want are fibers to be released in an uncontrolled environment - you DON'T want to breath that stuff in. Have you heard of asbestos?

CF panels and other shapes are typically (as far as I'm aware) fabricated by laminating weaved carbon sheets in alternating directions between layers of resin, I believe under some pressure.

absolutely right. CF is not a material they will be making tools out of anytime soon, if ever. Steel is King.

[Jononon]

1. No, fasteners will still be the cheapest things that will hold the car together. Weight savings will come from adhesives.

2. Maybe, but most fasteners will still be engineered primarily for production line air tools

3. I don't know ;)

"I like heavy steel nuts and bolts and heavy steel tools"

It's nearly 50 years since anyone in the west used a coal fired steam engine for anything other than leisure purposes, yet a new steam locomotive (http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2008/aug/02/railtravel.heritage) made its debut this year.

I'm not confident about any other prediction, but I am certain that there will be guys who like to be up to their elbows in oil every weekend until their isn't any more oil - by which point we'll be long dead.

Oh, and tools will proudly say "Made in China" in big letters on the packaging, and we'll see it as a mark of quality (I'm not being sarcastic.)

[Merkava_4]

Another way to think about it is that if you designed a steel bar and a carbon fiber bar to withstand a certain force, the carbon fiber bar would weigh less.

Why does it weigh less and still be so strong? Could it be because each layer of resin cloth is oriented 90 degrees from each other?

[Phatsub]

The world is coming to an end. We'll all be dead before tool technology has a chance to advance. :lol_hitti

[Stuey]

Why does it weigh less and still be so strong? Could it be because each layer of resin cloth is oriented 90 degrees from each other?
Carbon fiber or carbon fibre[1] (alternately called graphite fiber, graphite fibre or carbon graphite) is a material consisting of extremely thin fibers about 0.0002–0.0004 inches (0.005–0.010 mm) in diameter and composed mostly of carbon atoms. The carbon atoms are bonded together in microscopic crystals that are more or less aligned parallel to the long axis of the fiber. The crystal alignment makes the fiber incredibly strong for its size. Several thousand carbon fibers are twisted together to form a yarn, which may be used by itself or woven into a fabric.[2] Carbon fiber can be combined with a plastic resin and wound or molded to form composite materials such as carbon fiber reinforced plastic (also referenced as carbon fiber) to provide a high strength-to-weight ratio material. The density of carbon fiber is also considerably lower than the density of steel, making it ideal for applications requiring low weight.[3]
google and wikipedia are your friends!

[Merkava_4]

That definition doesn't give reference the orientation of the resin plies; besides, I already knew the answer to my question. :p

[Stuey]

That definition doesn't give reference the orientation of the resin plies; besides, I already knew the answer to my question. :p
Your prior post suggested otherwise. There is no resin cloth, there is carbon cloth. There is no resin ply, there are carbon fabric layers.

Since you were confusing "carbon cloth" with "plastic resin" I took your inquiry as real and not rhetorical.

=P

Have we eased your concern over steel vs. everything else yet?

[MachineTech]

I can foresee pnumatic tools phasing out as the years go by. Battery technology seems to be advancing each passing year. Batteries will become lighter, stronger, last longer, and need less replacing. I also think that magnetics will play more of a roll in the future...perhaps a tool that does not need to physically touch the fastener at all??? Maybe I'm getting too Star Trekky here but anything is possible.:wtf:

[wilbilt]

...perhaps a tool that does not need to physically touch the fastener at all??? Maybe I'm getting too Star Trekky here but anything is possible.:wtf:

Like I said, bio-engineered fasteners. They will be living things.

(Shudder)

[Stuey]

I can foresee pnumatic tools phasing out as the years go by. Battery technology seems to be advancing each passing year. Batteries will become lighter, stronger, last longer, and need less replacing. I also think that magnetics will play more of a roll in the future...perhaps a tool that does not need to physically touch the fastener at all??? Maybe I'm getting too Star Trekky here but anything is possible.:wtf:
Battery powered tools will not replace pneumatic tools anytime soon, although to be honest, I'm not aware of all the advantages/disadvantages of pneumatic tools at the moment.

How much lighter, stronger, and longer-lasting could batteries become? There is a huge technological hurdle in finding a better battery than Lithium and Lithium ion recharegables. There are no capacitor power tools coming out, but I don't see much future for those power sources in heavy duty tools such as saws and drills. Yet.

As for "magnetics" - *maybe* but wireless power sources have their own hurdles.

Everyone is working on battery technologies, and while there are breakthroughs, commercial lithium ion battery technology is well over a decad old, wiht NiCad and NiMH batteries both being several decades old. Even with our more advanced tech now, finding the next generation of batteries is going to be quite difficult.

[olds88]

In the future, all your tools are belong to us.

[Merkava_4]

There is no resin cloth, there is carbon cloth.

Alright jeez.... it becomes impregnated with resin though.... :wtf:

[Theo]

Carbon Fiber

[Theo]

Battery powered tools will not replace pneumatic tools anytime soon, although to be honest, I'm not aware of all the advantages/disadvantages of pneumatic tools at the moment.

How much lighter, stronger, and longer-lasting could batteries become? There is a huge technological hurdle in finding a better battery than Lithium and Lithium ion recharegables. There are no capacitor power tools coming out, but I don't see much future for those power sources in heavy duty tools such as saws and drills. Yet.

As for "magnetics" - *maybe* but wireless power sources have their own hurdles.

Everyone is working on battery technologies, and while there are breakthroughs, commercial lithium ion battery technology is well over a decad old, wiht NiCad and NiMH batteries both being several decades old. Even with our more advanced tech now, finding the next generation of batteries is going to be quite difficult.

Batteries are indeed becoming more prominent in assembly tools. I'm not sure we'll see battery powered sanders any time soon (due to the energy consumption) but the benefits would be huge.

[speed bump]

Batteries are indeed becoming more prominent in assembly tools. I'm not sure we'll see battery powered sanders any time soon (due to the energy consumption) but the benefits would be huge.

I don't see battery tools completly replacing pneumatic tools anytime soon mainly becuase of the power to weight ratio. A 7" electric grinder is a pretty heavy duty tool but compared to a air grinder it weighs 10 times as much and has about the same power or less.

[Theo]

True. The departure from pneumatic is more prevalent in tools that aren't huge energy consumers.

A small cordless impact has the ergonomic benefit of no airline to fight and the cost of charging the batteries is far less than the cost of producing compressed air.

[jay50]

1. There will be no tools in the future
2 Because everything will be cheaply built and bought, thanks to the Chinese and maomarts
3. No one will have an interest in tools

[Stuey]

Alright jeez.... it becomes impregnated with resin though.... :wtf:
According to this definition for "impregnated"
1 a: to cause to be filled, imbued, permeated, or saturated <impregnate wood with varnish> b: to permeate thoroughly I'd have to disagree with you. I am under the impression that the carbon fibers become surrounded by the resin, and it actually the resin that is impregnanted by the carbon fiber.

I can keep this up all day! =P

I do agree with the points everyone is making about adhesives - they're cheap and commonly used these days. By the time something built with a lot of adhesives fails, the company is ready to sell you another product built as shoddily.

[MachineTech]

Merkava_4 never specified how soon in the future. Technology is growing by leaps and bounds. I guess I was thinking more like 50-100 years from now. Many have said they don't see battery technology replacing pneumatics anytime soon. I wasn't thinking soon.

[Merkava_4]

According to this definition for "impregnated"


1 a: to cause to be filled, imbued, permeated, or saturated b: to permeate thoroughly

Good gawd.... I hope eschoendorff doesn't read that. :lol:

[Stuey]

Merkava_4 never specified how soon in the future. Technology is growing by leaps and bounds. I guess I was thinking more like 50-100 years from now. Many have said they don't see battery technology replacing pneumatics anytime soon. I wasn't thinking soon.
That far in the future is anyone's guess. 100 years ago, people commuted via the NYC subway system. Today, people commute via the NYC subway system.

About 40 years ago, everyone theorized that we'd soon build habitable pods on the moon. 20 years ago, everyone theorized that we'd land men on Mars. Today, no man or woman has stepped foot on the moon in decades, and noone (that we know of) has ever stepped foot on Mars.

The battery technology sector has hit a plateau. This happens in technology often. A few years ago minidiscs took off in Asia and in certain markets here. Overall, it flopped and the mp3 player boomed.

Sony designed a micro-disc format that they intended for data storage. Ultimately nothing came of it until they found a use for it in their PSP gaming system.

Lockheed Martin and Boeing designed the F-22 Raptor to be the most advanced stealth figher in the world. It costs too much so the US govt opted to focus on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter instead.

There was an awesome "Camanche" helicopter in the works. Lack of funds doomed it.

There was a shuttle replacement in the works, the Venturestar. Problems with the X-33 scaled test craft led to the cancellation of the program.

In short, just because new technologies are possible, doesn't meant that they will take off, even if they have the potential to revolutionize things. The primary driving factor is cost. After that, I believe, comes commercial and market demand.

Will a company spend 10% more to produce a product that offers no improvement in strength? Of course not.

[rsanter]

less fasteners and more things glued together
less to work on and more to throw away

also if the cost of copper stays high and electric cars get more popular, how many of us will go out to our cars and say " damm, someone stole my motor...again"

bob

[wilbilt]

More likely, the batteries will be stolen.

[Merkava_4]

What if the tools of the future are similar to the shape they are now, but 10 times stronger and 1/3 as heavy, could you guys live with that?

[Stuey]

What if the tools of the future are similar to the shape they are now, but 10 times stronger and 1/3 as heavy, could you guys live with that?
What about the cost? Don't forget that stronger materials require more durable tooling. Let's not even talk about factors such as raw material availability or pure material production.

*cough* titanium *cough*

[Merkava_4]

What about the cost? Don't forget that stronger materials require more durable tooling.

Ah, but there won't be the machinery utilized that you're familiar with; these tools will be built in vats one atom at a time by nano robots. The fit and finish will be impeccable. :)

[wilbilt]

They won't be built, they will be grown.

They will be able to adapt to varying requirements, i.e., different fastener sizes or handle angles.

The downside is that they will have to be fed and cared for.

[Merkava_4]

They won't be built, they will be grown.

Can you imagine what living tools could do for the porn industry? :eek2:

[wilbilt]

Can you imagine what living tools could do for the porn industry? :eek2:

No, I haven't thought about that aspect. I'm not even sure how that would work, but somebody will undoubtedly figure it out. :wtf:

[Stuey]

Can you imagine what living tools could do for the porn industry? :eek2:
The porn industry, or the adult "toys" industry?

[Danglerb]

for sure its going to get weird.

[eschoendorff]

Like I said, bio-engineered fasteners. They will be living things.

(Shudder)

As creepy as it is... I think you might be on to something here Will. :shocking::beer: