Knife Woes

[Stuey]

Okay, so I saw a spiffy looking knife online and called the wife in to see it. To my surprise, she gave the okay for me to buy it as part of my holiday gift. Woo!

So... I do a little searching and find that it is made in Taiwan.

Spyderco "S" (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/closeup.php?product=268)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e243/SirStuey/C109BKP_L.jpg

I know that Spyderco makes a few knives in the US, such as the Native (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=178), but the S really caught my eye with its design. What would you do? Imported knife from a reputable brand b/c of how it looks, or not? Also, I might purchase the Native regardless as to whether I buy the S or not.

[Bolster]

Hoo boy, I'm a Spyderholic, so I will try to keep this short. In fact, I'll outline it.

1) Spyder is thought to do a pretty good job of enforcing quality control of their knives wherever made (USA, Japan, Italy, one was Swiss, Taiwan, and now even China).

2) That said, most Spyderholics prefer USA or Japan (Seki City) knives. And that is because (1) fit and finish are great; and (2) US knives use S30V and Seiki knives use VG-10 or ZDP-189. All top "super" steels.

3) The Tenacious, made in China, is their first and only (very controversial and very inexpensive) Chinese-made Spyder. Opinions are fiercely divided about the Chinacious, as I call it. The steel it contains is OK, nothing to write home about. Spyderco's president, Sal Glesser, basically said he had to compete with all the other brands going to China, or see his company go under. So some people see the Chinacious as supporting the company so it can continue making high quality Am, Jap, and Euro knives.

4) Make your decision about what knife to buy, based on the design fitting your needs, and the steel it contains (http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32670). The "S" uses 440C, which was considered a good steel 20-30 years ago. Still is good, but things have gotten so much better in the past decade. I've sold all my 440C knives because better options exist. I'd consider 440C a minimum acceptable standard.

5) Do you really want to be cleaning goo out of the blade? Decaying stuff on the blade will stink. The knives in the same ballpark as that S in size and function, that get big raves, are the Dragonfly (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=275), and the Caly III (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=235). They can be had with high end steel, and in the case of the Caly III, even with ZDP-189, an amazing super-steel.

6) Merkava is joking. You don't want a Gerber. I will get flamed for what I'm saying next, but it's true: Gerber uses low-end 440 on a lot of their knives (don't know what steel's in the Gator so maybe I am speaking out of school). I owned several Gerbers. Nice to look at...but...very bendy edges.

7) If you decide to go for the Native (highly rated due to its top quality steel, myself I don't like hollow grind), a new model is coming out that has everyone hot and bothered--it has a flat ground blade (=good!). I am waiting impatiently for the new Native 4s (http://paulberetta.com/images/November/cf_native_07.jpg) myself. Interestingly the photo shows a VG-10 blade, meaning this would be a Seki knife. Traditionally the Native has always been a US made knife. So maybe the prototype you see in the photo was made in Seki? Don't know.

[bchee]

BUY IT man that thing looks badass. Plus the blade is made of 440C steel. Don't know what that means, but it's probably a good kind of steel.

The clip looks really weak though

[Merkava_4]

6) Merkava is joking. You don't want a Gerber. I will get flamed for what I'm saying next, but it's true: Gerber uses low-end steel on a lot of their knives (don't know what steel's in the Gator so maybe I am speaking out of school). I own several Gerbers. Very bendy edges.

The one I have is the made in Oregon USA version, has the quality gone down hill since moving production to China?

[MAD]

Are those holes for grating cheese?

[Uncle Buck]

6) Merkava is joking. You don't want a Gerber. I will get flamed for what I'm saying next, but it's true: Gerber uses low-end steel on a lot of their knives (don't know what steel's in the Gator so maybe I am speaking out of school). I own several Gerbers. Very bendy edges.

Heck, I thought Gerber, Buck, Camillus (now gone) Shrade, and Case (what i carry) were all good brands. Someone better tell me at least one name in that list is worth having! :wtf:

[Merkava_4]

Heck, I thought Gerber, Buck, Camillus (now gone) Shrade, and Case (what i carry) were all good brands. Someone better tell me at least one name in that list is worth having! :wtf:

I can shave the hair off my arms with my Gerber, but it pre-dates the China move.

[Uncle Buck]

I can shave the hair off my arms with my Gerber, but it pre-dates the China move.

What China move? Never mind..................They need to just keep the damned things over there and go cut bamboo shoots or something like that with them! :mad:

[chad s]

If an automatic knife is legal in your state, look into a Protech. They are outstanding. The 154cm stainless steel blade is very high grade. But they are priced at a premium. I have a J4 Runt that I carry every day, and use all of the time on the job. I also have a Godson, which is less practical, but extremely sharp!

www.protechknives.com

Get one of these, and you will NOT be disappointed:
http://protechknives.com/knives/switchblades/runt-4-knives.asp

check out this little custom one:
http://protechknives.com/knives/media/rj4/rj4-damascus-large.jpg

[bushhawg73]

I have a Spiderco that is about 10 years old. I carry it every day at work and it has never let me down. It is made in Japan. I have jimmed the door lock to get into places and cut lots of seatbelts in vehicle crashes. I do not know about the china version but the one I have has been a great knife.

[Merkava_4]

What China move? Never mind..................They need to just keep the damned things over there and go cut bamboo shoots or something like that with them! :mad:

LOL!!! :lol:

[Crawlin]

I really like my benchmade, not sure where they are made though

[plinker]

Schrade went out business in '04 due to cheap imports and got bought by Taylor brands and is now an import (I.E. china / Taiwan).

Some Buck knives at walmart are imports too. but most of there line is still USA.

[chad s]

I really like my benchmade, not sure where they are made though

Benchmade is USA made, excellent quality. They may have some asian made ones, but the top end auto's are USA.

[Bolster]

Heck, I thought Gerber, Buck, Camillus (now gone) Shrade, and Case (what i carry) were all good brands. Someone better tell me at least one name in that list is worth having! :wtf:

Those are good brands. As it pertains to stainless steel, those manufacturers tend to use conventional, traditional stainless steels, which worked well enough for many years. Several well-known brands stick with 440 or similar steels because it can be stamped (it is soft). Thing is, there has been a revolution in cutlery (stainless) steel starting mid 1990s and we are reaping the benefits of things like 'powder metallurgy' in today's new steels.

Knives that are sold to collectors are prone to have soft 440 steels in them, because 440 really does resist rust well. At least 440A does. (440C not so much.) The mfgr's know that 'collector' knives will probably not get sharpened and used, and besides, the collector wants a really really shiny blade that will stay that way. So load it up with chromium, who cares how the edge holds up. And you can stamp the blades so they're inexpensive to make.

A Case or Schrade or Camillus with rustable carbon steel is a wonderful knife. Needs frequent sharpening compared to today's super-steels, but they're great, take a keen edge, and I'd be proud to have 'em in my pocket. I'm prone to carry old-school Queen knives, although Queen has updated many of their knives to D-2 steel which is amazingly good stuff.

[Stanger]

I carried an inexpensive Buck everyday, but I seemed to have lost it. It was USA made. Right now I'm carrying a Boker, also USA made. I haven't really paid much attention to them other than sharpening when needed. They both get the job done, but the Buck was quite a bit lighter. I need to find it.

[a390st]

I have several of the Japan made Spyderco knives, but I am done with them now with the whole China thing. I have a lot of respect for the Japanese cutlery market. The China thing really was a case of cheaping out without regard for the desires of the consumer. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

[mkdive]

I carry a masters of defense auto knife, or a covert applegate folding Gerber. Both are great blades.

[Stuey]

Bolster - I really appreciate your post, and will refer to it in the future - it is very informative, very detailed, and very helpful!

Merkava - I have a few Gerber knives. The ones I usually have readily available are an older Paraframe I, and a newer Paraframe II. The Paraframe I is great, but I chipped the blade and never got around to sharpening it. The Paraframe II is complete garbage. I complained to Gerber about how difficult it was to open the knife even with two hands, and they told me to adjust the screw. I went out and bought the Torx driver I needed and it didn't help. I tried a few things and concluded that the liner lock was just too strong - suggesting a design fault or severe manufacturing errors. I have other Gerber products and their quality is lacking. Ironically, the only Gerber product I still appreciate is my Paraframe I that I bought at Walmart with a shortcut keychain for $13.

Oh goodness, I opened a can of worms with this thread, didn't I!

I think I'll follow Bolster's advice and wait a bit to check out the new Native that's coming out.

Automatic knives are definitely not legal here.

I typically carry a Skeletool or Wave with me. I wasn't looking for a new knife, but I saw the Spyderco with the spider motif and it drew me almost as strongly as Leatherman did with their Skeletools.

The "S" is still so tempting, but I must resist!

[Danglerb]

I have a Spyderco PIG, but I never take it out of the house.

Gerber LST used to always be in my pocket, now I have a Gerber Shortcut.

Talking to a guy a couple weeks ago, pulled over for a routine ticket in his car and the cop found a small, ala less than 3 1/2" blade knife in the door pouch, but it was deemed "double edged" and he was charged with a felony, cuffed and taken to jail.

[speed bump]

At the moment I have on me a 10 or so year old Made in USA old timer 3 blade with carbon steel blades. A Magnum by Boker Chinese or Taiwanese knife its one of the rainbow series ones with a 440 stainless blade. Also I carry my Leatherman wave.

I have managed to lose my nice buck 2 blade with carbon steel blades and a Boker 3 blade with Carbon steel blades.

The Magnum seems like a nice knife but I am a lefty so I am contemplating giving it to my little sister who lost the Kershaw spring assisted knife I got here last year (nothing scarier than a 14 year old girl walking up to you and having 3.5" blade pop out in you face) since it isn't spring assisted and opens much more easily with the right hand than the left. Honestly I should of played with it more but for $18 and the fact that it had a cool iridated Ti finish sold it for me.

I keep thinking of picking up a US made Kershaw or CKRT spring assisted opening knife for a workhorse because pulling the Old Timer out just tends to be a pain sometimes. Buck also makes a nice one but my friend had the locking mechanism wear out on his.

Also can anyone tell me a good lefty knife?

[Stuey]

Bolster,

The Native 4 (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=369)on Spyderco's website has carbon fiber scales and has a list of $260! I'll wait for the polymer version!

[<>Severed<>]

In Idaho we can have auto knifes so I have four benchmades http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=9100

and I carry this cheap smith one at work http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=SW50BTSAUTO

[Adam McLaughlin]

Talking to a guy a couple weeks ago, pulled over for a routine ticket in his car and the cop found a small, ala less than 3 1/2" blade knife in the door pouch, but it was deemed "double edged" and he was charged with a felony, cuffed and taken to jail.

Something else happened in this altercation, the cop does not have much reason to look into door pockets of cars to peek for weapons. Where is the PC for that? I think that the driver of the car would have curtiledge in this area and he would have to either volunteer that he has a weapon, OR he would have done something to incite a reason to search.

( I used to T.A. for the Rights of the Accused class at the local University )

Adam

[nissan_crawler]

I have a Spyderco PIG, but I never take it out of the house.

Gerber LST used to always be in my pocket, now I have a Gerber Shortcut.

Talking to a guy a couple weeks ago, pulled over for a routine ticket in his car and the cop found a small, ala less than 3 1/2" blade knife in the door pouch, but it was deemed "double edged" and he was charged with a felony, cuffed and taken to jail.

What does "double-edged" have to do with it? Is that some weird Cali law?

At the moment I have on me a 10 or so year old Made in USA old timer 3 blade with carbon steel blades. A Magnum by Boker Chinese or Taiwanese knife its one of the rainbow series ones with a 440 stainless blade. Also I carry my Leatherman wave.

I have managed to lose my nice buck 2 blade with carbon steel blades and a Boker 3 blade with Carbon steel blades.

The Magnum seems like a nice knife but I am a lefty so I am contemplating giving it to my little sister who lost the Kershaw spring assisted knife I got here last year (nothing scarier than a 14 year old girl walking up to you and having 3.5" blade pop out in you face) since it isn't spring assisted and opens much more easily with the right hand than the left. Honestly I should of played with it more but for $18 and the fact that it had a cool iridated Ti finish sold it for me.

I keep thinking of picking up a US made Kershaw or CKRT spring assisted opening knife for a workhorse because pulling the Old Timer out just tends to be a pain sometimes. Buck also makes a nice one but my friend had the locking mechanism wear out on his.

Also can anyone tell me a good lefty knife?

I have a Kershaw Ken Onion (my daily knife):

http://www.outdoorpros.com/images/prod/5/Kershaw-1660-rw-10598-5400.jpg

CRKT M16-14LE

http://www.dumptoko.nl/res/00201/img_user/productimages/crkt/crkt_m16-14LE.jpg

Beretta (like the black handled one, but my blade is all stainless)

http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/91398_ts.JPG?cell=200,200&cvt=jpeg

As for lefty, I have no clue, but the Kershaw is a great size, and quite thin for daily carrying. It keeps a nice edge, too.

[Stuey]

What does "double-edged" have to do with it? Is that some weird Cali law?
I assume double-edged knives could be considered daggers, which are illegal in many areas that have tight weapon regulations.

[Bolster]

Bolster,

The Native 4 (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=369)on Spyderco's website has carbon fiber scales and has a list of $260! I'll wait for the polymer version!

It'll be pricey due to the CF scales, but street value nowhere near $260. And as you guessed, Spyderco often introduces an upscale version, followed by a more reasonable one with normal handles.

[csquared]

<a href="http://www.benchmade.com/index.asp"><img src=http://www.benchmade.com/images/logo.gif></a>

As far as I know, they are all made in Oregon City (that's in Oregon, folks).

I found this:
"United We Stand. Made in USA"
Made in the USA means exactly that when it comes to Benchmade. Located at 300 Beavercreek Road in Oregon City, Oregon USA, Benchmade Knife Company has been manufacturing knives at this modern facility since March of 1996. Corporate offices, Sales & Marketing, Customer Services and manufacturing are all under one roof working hard everyday to continue providing you with the best possible products and services. The modern design of this facility allows for future expansion as Benchmade continues to grow and evolve in the specialty cutlery markets.

Find a Dealer, or Buy Direct:
Benchmade Knife Company (benchmade.com)
8:30am to 5:00pm pacific time.
300 Beavercreek Road
Oregon City, Oregon 97045 USA
Phone: (503) 655-6004
Toll Free: (800) 800-7427
Fax: (503) 655-6223
E-mail: info@benchmade.com

[Bolster]

Sadly (but like virtually all other USA knife makers) some Benchmade are made in China.

"I am familiar with some of Benchmade's other Red Box material and found them on par with other Taiwanese made products I own. I assumed that this Vex was also a Taiwan made knife as the likes of the Ambush, the Rant, and the Monochrome are Taiwanese made.......first surprise.....this Vex is marked CHINA!" See discussion (http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/785135/).

"The [Benchmade Vex] blade is just under 1/8-inch thick and made from a Chinese steel specified as 8Cr14MoV. According to the Benchmade web site, this steel is similar to AUS-8..." See discussion (http://www.officer.com/web/online/On-the-Street/New-Knives-From-Benchmade-for-07/21$36042).

And on Benchmade's own website (http://www.benchmade.com/about_knives/our_blades.asp) they talk about their various Chinese steels.

Although Chinese steels don't impress me, I'm not dissing Benchmade, very good reputation. Maybe even their Chinese knives are high quality, I don't know. I do wish that Benchmade would respect the Spyderco patent on the round hole opener, but Spyderco's president Sal Glesser is not a sue-happy guy and won't pursue it in court. Good for him.

[speed bump]

What does "double-edged" have to do with it? Is that some weird Cali law?



I have a Kershaw Ken Onion (my daily knife):

http://www.outdoorpros.com/images/prod/5/Kershaw-1660-rw-10598-5400.jpg

CRKT M16-14LE

http://www.dumptoko.nl/res/00201/img_user/productimages/crkt/crkt_m16-14LE.jpg

Beretta (like the black handled one, but my blade is all stainless)

http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/91398_ts.JPG?cell=200,200&cvt=jpeg

As for lefty, I have no clue, but the Kershaw is a great size, and quite thin for daily carrying. It keeps a nice edge, too.

I know the Kershaw is a nice knife, I keep looking at the iridated Ti finished one but I haven't felt like the spending the $75 yet on a knife that I don't really need ATM. I looked at the CKRT knife(I think it was that one or one like it) and passed becuase all the ones they had didn't always open correctly. I might have to see about the Beretta though.

[krusty the clown]

i have about 50 or so knives. here's may favorite............

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/matco01/100_0223.jpg http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd154/matco01/100_0221.jpg

it's a courtney custom. it was from eldon courtney's personal collection. nissan_crawler should know of mr. courtney since he was also from wichita!

[Danglerb]

Something else happened in this altercation, the cop does not have much reason to look into door pockets of cars to peek for weapons. Where is the PC for that? I think that the driver of the car would have curtiledge in this area and he would have to either volunteer that he has a weapon, OR he would have done something to incite a reason to search.

( I used to T.A. for the Rights of the Accused class at the local University )

Adam

Technical term is failure to shut up.

As I understand it, it was a routine stop for speeding, and at some point the "any weapons or guns in the vehicle?" question came up and he said, "just my knife" or some such, and the cop took one look and cuffed him.

[chad s]

I have a ken onion 1660 kershaw too. its blade does not hold up like a 154cm blade does. if you can find a non-auto blade with a 154cm stainless blade, you will be amazed how long it holds an edge, but its found on higher end knives mostly.

[strizzy]

Heres my practical view on that knife, that would be a pain to clean anything that got into the milled out part of the knife. Never see that in my pocket.

At the moment I have a large Gerber, second one and love it, though I am looking for a 'nice' knife.

[81Seca]

If you like the design, I wouldn't be concerned about the quality. I have a bunch of Spydercos, including the imported Byrd Wings, Byrd Cara Cara, and Spyderco branded Tenacious. Ans as much as I dig my American made Spydercos, the quality of the imports is quite good, and the value is hard to beat. One of my EDC knives is a China made Boker Hyper, and it is one of the most recommended EDC knives on several knife BB's. You can find complete crap knives made in China, but you can also find some great values if you know what to buy.

[daveblank]

Bolster,

The Native 4 (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=369)on Spyderco's website has carbon fiber scales and has a list of $260! I'll wait for the polymer version!


Other than carbon fiber, what is the difference in the Native 3 & Native 4?

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=61

[Bolster]

Other than carbon fiber, what is the difference in the Native 3 & Native 4?

Different blade shape and grind (notice it is flat ground not hollow ground), different steel (looks like the new one is using VG-10), different handles (the first Native 4 will be carbon fiber, inevitably FRN or G-10 handles will follow, they almost always do). Clip now has 4 options for placement. Skeletonized internal liners (that adds cost but also strength.) Looks like lockup may be the same (back lock).

The old Native used to be "the Walmart knife." Doesn't look like the new one is aimed at Walmart anymore, it's very upscale.

[Stuey]

*bump*

Didn't buy that Spyderco, and am now considering a Kershaw Onion. Possibly either the Scallion or Chive. I also want the E.T. but the design is a bit daunting, not to mention the price is higher.

[bmwguru]

I own several knives from a few manufacturers listed in earlier posts. Such as Buck, Gerber, Spyderco, Kershaw, Benchmade, Emerson and Microtech. They are all nice but the Microtech knives are the best of the best IMHO. They are not cheap, but you will get what you pay for. Completely US made using only US manufactured parts, materials and labor. Have a look. I suggest skipping the GI Joe intro...http://www.microtechknives.com/

[bchee]

*bump*

Didn't buy that Spyderco, and am now considering a Kershaw Onion. Possibly either the Scallion or Chive. I also want the E.T. but the design is a bit daunting, not to mention the price is higher.

ha ha thought you were joking about the names, but they are real.

I would stick with the spiderweb theme knife

[GT89mustang]

*bump*

Didn't buy that Spyderco, and am now considering a Kershaw Onion. Possibly either the Scallion or Chive. I also want the E.T. but the design is a bit daunting, not to mention the price is higher.

Im on my 2nd kershaw knife, "blackout" (lost the first one :() Their great knives, only complaint on this one is the tip got bent very slightly somehow, I still would buy another in a heartbeat and probably will if something happens to this one.

[toymn6366]

tool store guy give me a kershaw onion great knife was toting a gerber auto still do if dressed up also tote a smaller buck and my gerber diesel

if anyone has a western knife model 533 with black handles no etching on blade and a diamond in handle would like to buy had one as kid would like to buy another p m me

[Stuey]

I ended up ordering a Kerhsaw Onion Leek. There was a terrible internal debate. Scallion vs. Leek. Black & blue "smokey" handle vs. satin stainless steel. Oh the humanity!

[BigRed390]

Anybody have any experience with Emerson? Kinda expensive, but they seem to have a great reputation. Thoughts?

[Danglerb]

Fancy knife seems about as useful as fancy hammer.

IMHO quality in a knife is about the same as in a watch, a $3 Chinese swap meet version does the same job as a $300 version, with a knife you have to sharpen a cheap one more often, and with a watch you have to wind it more often. Big deal.

[mattwgrizwald]

I ended up ordering a Kerhsaw Onion Leek. There was a terrible internal debate. Scallion vs. Leek. Black & blue "smokey" handle vs. satin stainless steel. Oh the humanity!

Snap on dealers carry kershaw blades. I paid $70.00 for mine a little steep but it's what I like I truly perfer a ken onion 1670blkst this the knife I perfer oh crap the picture I loaded is the tonto like blade mine is seratted, like this one just a regular point at blade tip

[bmwguru]

Anybody have any experience with Emerson? Kinda expensive, but they seem to have a great reputation. Thoughts?

I have an Emerson CQC7. It's a nice piece. A bit bulky but it is very sturdy and well put together. Honestly I like my Microtech knives better. Here's a pic of the Emerson.

[Stuey]

Snap on dealers carry kershaw blades. I paid $70.00 for mine a little steep but it's what I like I truly perfer a ken onion 1670blkst this the knife I perfer oh crap the picture I loaded is the tonto like blade mine is seratted, like this one just a regular point at blade tip
I saw those - the blackout and blur. But, they look a bit too "tactical" so I had to pass since I wanted a less threatening looking everyday carry type of knife. Besides, I'm starting small and simple and will work my way up!

I don't think I've ever heard of Emerson - got to do some googling now.

[gpstraub]

Anything offered by Benchmade in the "Blue Class" (Blue Class is Made in the USA) is going to be a good piece. They get relatively pricey but the quality is fantastic. My 943 Osborne is my favorite.... nice knife :thumbup:

[Major Ramifications]

Fancy knife seems about as useful as fancy hammer.

IMHO quality in a knife is about the same as in a watch, a $3 Chinese swap meet version does the same job as a $300 version, with a knife you have to sharpen a cheap one more often, and with a watch you have to wind it more often. Big deal.

I've got to agree with Danglerb on this subject, some of you guys take knives way too seriously. I mean, a knife that costs 50 times as much is NOT 50 times better.
Bolster, you have been just waiting for someone to ask this question, haven't yoou? I didn't know you were such a knife expert.
I initially thought you guys were joking about automatic opening knives being illegal in some places.
Stuey, where are you that certain knives are illegal? I honestly cannot imagine such a thing. I thought you lived in America. Is the local government where you are also afraid of citizens carrying clubs or rocks? Have they heard about a new invention called guns? Wow. My guess is that you are either in a foreign country like Canada, DC, New England or California. If so, come and visit us in America once in a while, freedom is a wonderful thing.

[Stuey]

I've got to agree with Danglerb on this subject, some of you guys take knives way too seriously. I mean, a knife that costs 50 times as much is NOT 50 times better.
Bolster, you have been just waiting for someone to ask this question, haven't yoou? I didn't know you were such a knife expert.
I initially thought you guys were joking about automatic opening knives being illegal in some places.

Stuey, where are you that certain knives are illegal? I honestly cannot imagine such a thing. I thought you lived in America. Is the local government where you are also afraid of citizens carrying clubs or rocks? Have they heard about a new invention called guns? Wow. My guess is that you are either in a foreign country like Canada, DC, New England or California. If so, come and visit us in America once in a while, freedom is a wonderful thing.
Most states have knife regulations and many large cities have their own. I live in the NYC/NJ areas.

Certain knife styles are illegal in public places, others are illegal, period.

For a legal knife carried illegally, at the very least it can be confiscated, at the medium one can be fined, at worst, one can be arrested. Usually the knife is just confiscated.

Cities often have greater restrictions, especially when it comes to weapons. We see knives as tools, the laws sees them as potential weapons. Go figure.

According to one account I read a while back, a painter in the 60s or 70s was arrested for carrying a paint brush, but was released since there was nothing in the knife laws that could be applied to the case. :lol_hitti

Auto knives are very illegal, and while technically open-assist knives are not switchblades, they'll likely be confiscated if flashed in public.

[bry@n]

All knives aren't equal. I am a spyderholic and in fact am selling my Spyderco WTC knife. Emersons are great and the wave feature is awesome. Strider are nice and made to take some serious abuse but very expensive.

I have to disagree about $3 chinese watches. I wear nothing but mechanical watches. Your have ti wear a fine timepiece to appreciate it.

[TangoFoxTrot]

Technical term is failure to shut up.

As I understand it, it was a routine stop for speeding, and at some point the "any weapons or guns in the vehicle?" question came up and he said, "just my knife" or some such, and the cop took one look and cuffed him.

Unbelievable! Another ridiculous California law. You get cuffed and sent to jail for a 3 inch pocket knife in your car.:wtf:

I'm amazed people keep electing these idiots.

[Stuey]

While a knife costing 50 times as much may not be 50 times better, one that costs 10 times as much as a cheapie knife will certainly be 10 times better. I have bent cheapie knives, dulled them in an instant, and bent cheapie tweezers, probes, etc.

I greatly dislike cheapie products. Cheapie multi tools fall apart and when they don't and stay in one piece, movements are super stiff and the tooling is flimsy at the very least.

So no, there will be no $3 knives and $5 multitools for me, unless the quality improves by a factor of 10, which is highly unlikely.

[SocketDeviler]

I've got to agree with Danglerb on this subject, some of you guys take knives way too seriously. I mean, a knife that costs 50 times as much is NOT 50 times better.
Bolster, you have been just waiting for someone to ask this question, haven't yoou? I didn't know you were such a knife expert.
I initially thought you guys were joking about automatic opening knives being illegal in some places.
Stuey, where are you that certain knives are illegal? I honestly cannot imagine such a thing. I thought you lived in America. Is the local government where you are also afraid of citizens carrying clubs or rocks? Have they heard about a new invention called guns? Wow. My guess is that you are either in a foreign country like Canada, DC, New England or California. If so, come and visit us in America once in a while, freedom is a wonderful thing.

There's plenty of knife laws. Just do a Google search on it. If you want to amuse yourself further on bizarre American laws check out the legality of crossbows in certain states.

[bry@n]

There are many knife laws. A knife that opens automatically is illigal in most states (Benchamdes Black Class). I had a couple of Benchamde auto's (illegal in NJ) and carried them with no trouble. If I would have been caught, I was going down. Any knife that can be whipped open with a wrist flick, is considered a gravity knife which is the same as an auto.

Btw, almost every knife I have, has been worked to open quickly. Spyderco's ball bearing design flies open. I am sure if I was ever questioned and asked to see my knife, I would be locked up. Whether or not I agree or not, doesn't matter. The law is the law.

[Major Ramifications]

While a knife costing 50 times as much may not be 50 times better, one that costs 10 times as much as a cheapie knife will certainly be 10 times better. I have bent cheapie knives, dulled them in an instant, and bent cheapie tweezers, probes, etc.

I greatly dislike cheapie products. Cheapie multi tools fall apart and when they don't and stay in one piece, movements are super stiff and the tooling is flimsy at the very least.

So no, there will be no $3 knives and $5 multitools for me, unless the quality improves by a factor of 10, which is highly unlikely.

I hear ya up to a point, Stuey. I don't like crappy products any more than the next guy, but I was trying to say that you reach a point of diminishing returns. Like in racing, the faster you go, the more expensive it is to go faster. I can't see how any knife could be worth $250. But, maybe if I ever tried an expensive knife, I wouldn't be able to go back to the $25 Bucks and Gerbers.

[Stuey]

I hear ya up to a point, Stuey. I don't like crappy products any more than the next guy, but I was trying to say that you reach a point of diminishing returns. Like in racing, the faster you go, the more expensive it is to go faster. I can't see how any knife could be worth $250. But, maybe if I ever tried an expensive knife, I wouldn't be able to go back to the $25 Bucks and Gerbers.
I spent $38 and change, though - not $250. Of course, on my mental shopping list are several other knives in the $40-$100 range.

I likely won't ever get a Gerber ever again. I had a Paraframe II (or maybe I) and it was good. Then a few years later, I bought a set with a mini Paraframe and Paraframe I (the one with the longer blade). The knife is terrible to open. I contacted Gerber, and they told me to loosen a screw. I ran out and bought a mini Torx set. It didn't help. I concluded that there is just way too much tension in the liner lock. Gerber offered to replace the knife, but at that point, I read a few other online accounts about similiar stiffness. I decided to just keep it, and it's sitting in a drawer for emergency use - maybe I'll throw it into the trunk of my car.

I believe that many of the people that would spend upwards of $100 on a single knife intend for it to be used in or at least available for abusive environments and life or death situations, or are collectors. I can see how finely crafted knives could be collected almost as pieces of art.

I was talking to someone the other day about an "excessively priced" automatic crescent wrench that they saw on TV selling for $13.

Sorry for the digressions. Anyhow, in case I didn't make myself clear, I [almost] totally agree with you.

[snorky18]

Knives are like trucks...

If you need to haul mulch home from Lowes on Saturdays, you can just go buy a Chevy S-10, Nissan Frontier, etc.

Or you can go buy a 4 door F-850 with 6 wheels, a Cummins diesel motor, an Allison transmission. (yes it's a joke, please don't flame my vehicle knowledge)

Both choices will haul your mulch. Most people would be fine with the S-10 (admittely probably not most garage journal members:bounce:) for general use, a very few do need the F-850, and some will buy the F-850 just because they like it/looks cool, etc.

I grew up on crappy knives. When I was about 11 I got a Gerber Gator, which was the nicest knife I had ever owned at the time. But the edge dulled more frequently than I liked.

Then I got my first Spyderco....

I own lots of knives of various brands, some more $$ than others, but as far as value for the money in a knife that will cut and cut and hold the edge, spyderco seems to be the best compromise.

I bought Spyderco Byrd Flatbyrd
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=256
a year or so ago to carry at work. I wanted something small that I could pocket carry, but without a clip so as not to scare some of my pansy coworkers and get me in trouble. It's made in China, and it's not the nicest knife I've ever had, or the nicest Spyderco, but the value.... I can't imagine anything better for $20.

[-B-]

benchmade blue class knives are great value
spyderco usa or japan made great knives
CRKT good quality bad edge angle a good regrind or patient re profiling dose wonders
Buck USA or japan made are great quality strider collaborations are quite excellent and at the pricing strider production knives should be

Strider and Emerson are good knives but charge an ego tax( 100-150) that puts the knives in the handmade territory. ( two exceptions are the PT and the commander) Personally at the 300+ rage you are far better off getting a hand made buy one of the masters.

Cheap knives and good knives are not comparable just like apple and oranges.


I can count several handmade makers across the country as friends/ acquaintances / people I have done business with. There is much more to knife then just a sharp edge there is design , ease of use , ergonomics, edge retention, and materials choice. Cheap knives can be down right dangerous because they lack the design , they are just for profit.

[Iron-Iceberg]

There seams to be a few experts here so I have a Spyderco question. I have a Spyderco Delica with the half serrated blade. What is the best, easiest way to sharpen this thing. I have Spyderco's sharping stones but what a pain in the butt. Its really hard to sharpen the serrated part of the knife. Any other way to do this?

[-B-]

I have found you really only need to clean up the serration of burrs if any at all use a round diamond files or shaping stick.

[msrfrog]

I had a timberline knife that was great. I lost it in the woods though. used it at work every day. it was either from Taiwan or japan. paid 80 bucks for it and would buy another one but they do not make that model any more. I like to feel the knife before buying , gander mountain has a great selection.

[JohnMcD348]

I'm far from an aficionado on knives but I think I carry and use them fairly well. My every day carry for the past 5-10 years has been a Victor SAK Swiss Champ. I'm 270lb, 6'3" and it fits in my pocket no matter if I'm wearing shorts or slacks to church. It does everything I might need in a pinch all the way down to trimming the drinking straw for my son at a restaurant. I also carry most of the time a Spyderco USA made unit that I picked up at WalMart of all places. I bought it solely becuase a friend who is professionally involved in weapons craft told me about it and the fact it was actually Made in the USA and sold at WalMart made it something I had to have.

Also, I have and carry from time to time my Schrade Old Timer 3blade (885T) I think and I also have the Uncle Henry version too. I carried those with me throughout my life in the Navy and the Old timer was the knife my father gave me on my 7th birthday. I'm 38 now. I also have a few others that I've collected and used over the years. For heavy cutting and utility work, I have mt KaBar Utility knife and also one of their short Machetes.

I don't spend a fortune on knives and just can't bring myself to spend $2-500.00 on a knife. I still love the old Carbon Steel. Just call me old fashioned.

[Elroy]

Thing is, there has been a revolution in ...(stainless) steel starting mid 1990s and we are reaping the benefits of things like 'powder metallurgy' in today's new steels.

How dare you make such blasphemous statements. There is no such thing and we all know it.

Any blade worth a damn is hot forged

No its not, cold worked is the only method used by high volume "Brazilian" manufactures.

Take them words back I say.

You are not equipped for a rational, technical discussion and I won't respond to you again.
:beer:

Great stuff here thanks to Elroys Gopher eatin friend.:lol_hitti

[Bolster]

I've got to agree with Danglerb on this subject, some of you guys take knives way too seriously. I mean, a knife that costs 50 times as much is NOT 50 times better.Bolster, you have been just waiting for someone to ask this question, haven't yoou? I didn't know you were such a knife expert.

I take your meaning. A Snap-on ratchet may not get a particular job done any better than a HF ratchet.

What a quality knife offers (generally) is:

(1) Cutting ability. Lots more time between needed sharpenings due to modern powder metallurgy steels, and flat grind blades make very effective slicers. High quality steels allow steeper angles (=sharper) without folding over.

(2) Safety. Many cheap knives use linerlocks (and some expensive ones too). I had a mid-level ($40) linerlock once fold on me during use, cutting all four of my fingers. Since then I only carry lockbacks.

(3) Ergonomics, which actually turns out to make a big difference if you use a knife a lot. I carry a Spyderco Caly3 which has a lot of thought put into it. A choil which allows precise control, jimping on the spine for a secure thumb purchase, hole in blade allows one-hand opening about as fast as an automatic, G-10 handles for a non-slip grip even when wet, and most importantly a fantastic pocket clip that is low profile but doesn't allow the knife to fall out.

(4) Durability. I've put my current Caly through two house rebuilds and while it could no longer pass for new, it's still 100% functional, solid lockup, wicked sharp blade, non-cracked handles, etc. You could also argue...

(5) Style. I believe a person should spend top $ on the things he uses the most, and less $ on the things he doesn't. So eyeglasses, wallets, knives, belts, cell phone...those all deserve top dollar in my book. The jitterbug sander I use once every two years...that can be cheap.

[Bolster]

There seams to be a few experts here so I have a Spyderco question. I have a Spyderco Delica with the half serrated blade. What is the best, easiest way to sharpen this thing. I have Spyderco's sharping stones but what a pain in the butt. Its really hard to sharpen the serrated part of the knife. Any other way to do this?

Serrated is just more challenging to sharpen. If it's really difficult to get sharp, then I suspect the back bevel is too shallow, and you may just be hitting the shoulders of the edge of the blade. Test this by marking the blade edge with a black sharpie marker and take a few passes on your Sharpmaker. Is the black sharpie gone at the edge, or just behind the edge? Use a magnifying glass to check.

You might also want to consider the coarser brown stones for the Sharpmaker, to set that back bevel more quickly. Then switch to the white stones to put on your edge.

The Sharpmaker is designed to put a back bevel on at 30 and the edge at 40 (inclusive). That's very conservative. Most knife afi's want steeper angles than that. I tend to go with a back bevel at 25 and edge at 30. You can do that with a good steel (VG-10, ATS-34, BG-42, ZDP-189, S30V, and other supersteels), but that will be a disaster with your commonly found 420 or 440 steel, the edge will just bend over almost immediately upon use.

[JohnMcD348]

I really appreciate this thread. I've never really gotten into learning about all the newer and different metals that are out there in modern knives. I've pretty much always been a carbon steel man myself and stayed away from nearly all stainless stuff except my old Uncle Henry knives.

Thanks for the info.

[expatriated]

Just throwing my $.02 in here.

I've had them all at one time or another: Emerson (many), Strider (several), Benchmade Autos, Buck, Busse, SOG, Ontario, Al-Mar, Glock, CRKT, etc., etc., etc.

The absolute best buy for the money is anything by RAT Cutlery. www.ratcutlery.com

They have the absolute best warranty of ANY product (knife or otherwise) made and sold in the USA today, in my opinion. Here is their warranty info from their site (Sears Execs TAKE NOTE!!)



"No Questions Asked Warranty. If you screw it up, break it, or cut it in two with a cutting torch, send it back and we'll replace it. Warranty is transferable. In other words, we warranty the knife no matter how many times it's been traded, sold or given away. We don't ask for a sales receipt, date of purchase or where you bought the knife - No fine print and no hassles. If you have a problem, contact us. "



Their knives are used by military and law enforcement and the U.S. Marshals recently awarded them a contract to produce knives for them.

You can buy them at pretty much all the knife internet sites:

Cumberland Knife Works **

Chestnut Ridge Knife Shop **

Croc Blades

Knife & Supply Co.

Defense Knife & Tool

Brigade Quartermasters **

Rocky Mountain Knives

The Knife Warehouse

Trading Post Supply

Camping Gear Outlet

Emergency Options

One Stop Knife Shop

Dave's Knife World

Knives America

Knife Supply**

EM Gear

RMB Blades**

Outdoor Pros

Action Concepts

Earth Traverse Outfitters
Blue Ridge Knives *

Knives Ship Free **

JB Outman Distributing *

Knife Center of the Internet **

Knife Outlet

KnifeWorks **

Dad's Knife Shop

Knife Deals Plus **

KnifeSite

Survivalist Knife & Tool

Acme Knife Company

Knife Depot

Southern Tackle and Knife Sales

The Tinker's Knives

Emergency Options

New Graham Knives**

Two Wolves Outdoor

Gear2Survive

Explosive Ops Gear

Knife-Connection

Interstate Armory



By the way, I don't have anything to do with the company or get anything out of these sales, I just think they are the absolute best for the money out there.

[Bolster]

Wow! The preferred knife of hot blonde posers with perfect makeup? Sign me up!!

http://www.ratcutlery.com/ratgirl.jpg

Just funnin' you. I see their knives are tried-and-true 1095 carbon steel. A dependable, inexpensive old-school steel that still performs. (That's how they can offer a replacement guarantee. You won't find knives made with modern supersteels offering no-questions replacement, the stuff's too danged expensive.) Do they make any folders?

[TRTOOLSUPPLY]

what knife?.........

[expatriated]

Wow! The preferred knife of hot blonde posers with perfect makeup? Sign me up!!

http://www.ratcutlery.com/ratgirl.jpg

Just funnin' you. I see their knives are tried-and-true 1095 carbon steel. A dependable, inexpensive old-school steel that still performs. (That's how they can offer a replacement guarantee. You won't find knives made with modern supersteels offering no-questions replacement, the stuff's too danged expensive.) Do they make any folders?

One is in the works, as I understand it. They used to have one when their stuff was being made by Ontario. Long story short: Ontario's quality went down the tubes, RAT's name was being brought down with the rest of the detritus Ontario was selling. RAT left and formed their own company. Ontario is suing. It's ugly. Ontario still sells RAT-7's, RTAK, RAT-3, etc. The quality is NOT the same, nor are their knives under the same warranty. The Ontario stuff I have is crap compared to the real RAT Cutlery. Some of their knives were available in D2 as well as 1095. The newer stuff is 1095 but the powder coating is awesome. In my experience, the RAT Cutlery powdercoat is of the same quality as my $450 Busse.

But, anyway, there are some RAT folders still being made by Ontario overseas, I think but the real RAT Cutlery is not producing a folder right now. They've got their hands full with the huge orders of fixed blades. I think the next project is another version of the RTAK--the jungle blade.