View Full Version : 5 star torx? Mercedes AMG


Blwnsln
12-09-2008, 10:40 PM
Was working on a SL65 AMG, today and noticed the Mirors have a 5 sided star torx holding them on, also saw a few bolts that looked like a T6, I didnt find the T6 odd, but I dont think I have a 5 sided Torx, any one else run into this.

On a side note the V12 Bi-turbo rips...the owner took me for a ride, felt like I was in a plane

krusty the clown
12-09-2008, 10:46 PM
we discussed that a while back. torx plus IIRC. seems more common on european cars.

davestlouis
12-09-2008, 10:47 PM
Even the big S65 sedan is a screamer...I worked in a high-end body shop and had to road test several of these beasts...wow!

Blwnsln
12-09-2008, 10:50 PM
we discussed that a while back. torx plus IIRC. seems more common on european cars.

Ive seen Torx Plus, I thought those only had a hole in them. Ill have to look closer.

krusty the clown
12-09-2008, 10:53 PM
Ive seen Torx Plus, I thought those only had a hole in them. Ill have to look closer.


the ones with the hole are tamperproof torx.

Blwnsln
12-09-2008, 10:53 PM
Even the big S65 sedan is a screamer...I worked in a high-end body shop and had to road test several of these beasts...wow!


This was the Coupe the CL65 AMG

CL Coupe
SL Roadster
S Sedan

ImportTuner
12-09-2008, 10:54 PM
I have the SK security 5 star torx set .. hardly see usage though ..

Blwnsln
12-09-2008, 10:54 PM
I made a typo on the first post, too many dam benz

Blwnsln
12-09-2008, 10:56 PM
any one have the p/n on the s/o set there search engine sucks

So they have Torx, Tamper proff torx, torx plus IIRC? what else lol

krusty the clown
12-09-2008, 11:03 PM
http://www.camcarsolutions.com/torxplus_ds.asp

justinmc
12-09-2008, 11:13 PM
Torx Plus.. I have a set from SK.. IIRC Snap-On and Mac both offered them on their websites for awhile but they have since been pulled. Honestly I'll have to ask but I don't think any of our techs have said anything about using the Torx plus yet.

Here's a shot from my set...
http://www.garage-jdm.com/tools/torxplus3.jpg

PS the 65 is a bad beast... 230 cars in general are pretty mundane for sports cars but that car is wicked. Oh.. I'll have to post a pic. I have a 6.5 motor sitting on the shop floor right now. We had a motor come apart (looks like someone at AMG forgot to tighten a rod bolt)... brand new S65 with like 5K miles on it.

Merkava_4
12-09-2008, 11:21 PM
Why is the 5 point Torx Plus better than the 6 point regular Torx?

krusty the clown
12-09-2008, 11:25 PM
i think it is supposed to resist cam out

justinmc
12-09-2008, 11:26 PM
Why is the 5 point Torx Plus better than the 6 point regular Torx?

Its not.. but they needed a new tamper resistant type fastener (per OEM request) to keep folks from messing with certain components. Usually the torx plus stuff is found on MAF sensors, control units, etc. I've been told its what GM is using on all their new MAF's and I know Nissan has been using it for awhile. I'm assuming they might be using them on ECU's, etc as well. The common "hack" spots that aftermarket tuners are hitting on newer cars to make more power, etc.

justinmc
12-09-2008, 11:28 PM
Why is the 5 point Torx Plus better than the 6 point regular Torx?

My above answer is also the reason the Snap On, Mac, etc pulled them from their websites. The drivers are supposed to be made only available to factory service technicians. I'm not sure what the deal is with SK (probably not an OEM supplier for GM, Ford, etc at the manufacturing level) but as far as I know Clark tool still has sets in stock on the shelf. Thats where I got mine.

Merkava_4
12-09-2008, 11:34 PM
I haven't even got a chance to play with regular Torx fasteners all that much and now they've come out with a new version .... life is moving too fast for me. :(

Blwnsln
12-10-2008, 12:24 AM
I was told Benz did this on the mirors to stop people from stealing them.

Im soo confused to all these sets, also last time i spoke with my s/o guy he has the new 5 star style of the truck with the hole in it for tamper proof, but at the time I had no idea what it was so I stoped listning.

So we have in retard terms

Torx

Torx tamper proof (has hole in it tamper proff)

new 5 sided torx or whatever they call it (torx Plus)

new 5 sided torx with hole it for tamper proff (torx plus tamper)

anything else im missing for torx(this is so dam confusing)

<>Severed<>
12-10-2008, 12:49 AM
Torx plus are the same as regular Torx except that they have wider "blades" The 5 sided torx are Tamper proof Torx plus I have the plain torx and torx plus I will get a pic tomorrow so you can see the differance
If you have ever ran into a bolt that your normal torx bit fits loose in there is a good chance it is a torx plus. if you can look at the bed bolts in a ford you will see the differance, a normal one will take them out but not as well.

straight from Wiki

Security TORX driverA version known as Security TORX, Tamper-Resistant TORX (often shortened to Torx TR), or pin-in-Torx contains a post in the center of the head that prevents a standard TORX driver (or a straight screwdriver) from being inserted.
An external TORX version exists, where the screw head has the shape of a TORX screwdriver bit, and a special TORX socket is used to drive it. These are found primarily on automobile engines.
A TORX variant, TORX PLUS, is designed to allow greater torque, and to minimize wear. Currently, TORX PLUS heads and drivers are patented, slowing adoption in the marketplace, but is licenced to a number of tool manufacturers [1] including Camcar [2] and Facom [3]. The specifications for these licences are held by Textron. Standard TORX drivers can be used to drive TORX PLUS screws, but TORX PLUS drivers will not fit standard TORX screws. There is also a tamper resistant version of TORX PLUS, having five lobes and solid post in the center.
Another variant, TTAP, which is also hexalobular as the original TORX, is designed to allow greater stick-fit, and to minimize the wobbling. Currently, TTAP heads and drivers are patented, slowing adoption in the marketplace. Standard TORX drivers can be used to drive TTAP screws, but TTAP drivers will not fit standard TORX screws. There is also a tamper resistant version of TTAP.
TORX screws and screwdrivers with triangle-shaped sockets and heads are used in the Netherlands and cannot be found in North America

<>Severed<>
12-10-2008, 12:57 AM
simple list

Torx (normal)
Tamper proof Torx (hole in the middle)
Torx plus (fatter lobes then normal)
Tamper proof Torx plus (5 lobes with hole)
external TORX (these would slide over a normal torx bit I maninly use them to take studs out of parts)
TTAP (12 point stuff found on VWs and what not)
and one that is not in north america
a tamper proof TTAP which says it is triangle shaped sockets and heads.

I think thats all of them

Merkava_4
12-10-2008, 01:08 AM
Torx plus (fatter lobes then normal)


Wait a minute!! Are saying regular Torx Plus don't have 5 points?

<>Severed<>
12-10-2008, 01:14 AM
Yep they look just like normal torx just fatter. the 5 point ones are called Tamper proof Torx plus. I use torx plus a lot seat belt bolts, bed bolts, seat bolts

billymade
12-10-2008, 01:23 AM
We discussed this a little in the past; the development of the torx plus new standard is interesting! Check out this thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18103&showall=1

<>Severed<>
12-10-2008, 01:29 AM
We discussed this a little in the past; the development of the torx plus new standard is interesting! Check out this thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18103&showall=1

Theres a lot of good info in that thread. I skimed over some of it and will have to go back when I have some time to read the rest of it.

autoace
12-10-2008, 06:08 AM
regular torx = traditional 6point "star"

tamper proof torx = same as above with hole in the middle(weaker for regular, non-tamper use)

torx plus = 6 ribs, not as sharp as regular torx, less cam out(this fastener really is better than original)

torx plus tamper proof = 5 ribs, hole in middle,ribs still more blunt, like torx plus. They made these just for security sake.

The cheapest way to get the later two is OTC or Cornwell, Matco also makes a nice bit set for each. Cornwell is about 60 bucks a set(imported), OTC,bulletproof are about 30 to 40 bucks for regular torx plus. matco is the most expensive, but probably USA sourced. Most tool manufacturers don't make them yet.

Merkava_4
12-10-2008, 06:41 AM
Most tool manufacturers don't make them yet.

Torx-plus is on page 20 of the Apex pdf. ;)

daveblank
12-10-2008, 06:42 AM
The drivers are supposed to be made only available to factory service technicians. I'm not sure what the deal is with SK (probably not an OEM supplier for GM, Ford, etc at the manufacturing level) but as far as I know Clark tool still has sets in stock on the shelf. Thats where I got mine.

I,ve never heard of only selling them to factory service techs. Do you have anything proving that?

simple list

Torx (normal)
Tamper proof Torx (hole in the middle)
Torx plus (fatter lobes then normal)
Tamper proof Torx plus (5 lobes with hole)
external TORX (these would slide over a normal torx bit I maninly use them to take studs out of parts)
TTAP (12 point stuff found on VWs and what not)
and one that is not in north america
a tamper proof TTAP which says it is triangle shaped sockets and heads.

I think thats all of them


Dont forget the Ribe bits.

<>Severed<>
12-10-2008, 09:39 AM
Dont forget the Ribe bits.


Which ones are those?

justinmc
12-10-2008, 09:45 AM
I,ve never heard of only selling them to factory service techs. Do you have anything proving that?



Dave I just tried to search them on S/O website and found that they seem to be available now. At one point they listed the set but the pricing was NA and it said something about being sold only to factory authorized technicians. So I guess it must not be the case anymore.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=73689&group_ID=19385&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

I stand corrected. :bounce:

Blwnsln
12-10-2008, 10:47 AM
regular torx = traditional 6point "star"

tamper proof torx = same as above with hole in the middle(weaker for regular, non-tamper use)

torx plus = 6 ribs, not as sharp as regular torx, less cam out(this fastener really is better than original)

torx plus tamper proof = 5 ribs, hole in middle,ribs still more blunt, like torx plus. They made these just for security sake.

The cheapest way to get the later two is OTC or Cornwell, Matco also makes a nice bit set for each. Cornwell is about 60 bucks a set(imported), OTC,bulletproof are about 30 to 40 bucks for regular torx plus. matco is the most expensive, but probably USA sourced. Most tool manufacturers don't make them yet.

so on the plus stuff the tops ar almost curved

ImportTuner
12-10-2008, 11:14 AM
I,ve never heard of only selling them to factory service techs. Do you have anything proving that?




Dont forget the Ribe bits.

Check out ...
http://www.wihatools.com/700seri/716_IPR_serie.htm

daveblank
12-10-2008, 11:40 AM
Which ones are those?


http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7805&highlight=ribe

there is a great pic in this link

<>Severed<>
12-10-2008, 05:00 PM
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7805&highlight=ribe

there is a great pic in this link

Thanks, Now I got to go buy two sets of new tools instead of one.:lol_hitti

I haven never seen those ones before.
On a side note I checked with my SO driver today and he can get the Tamper proof torx plus, I dont remember how much but it was north of 225

rhandwor
12-19-2008, 03:39 PM
http://www.samstagsales.com/esgen.htm These are for Mercedes mirror they are long and narrow. They also sell the smaller sizes.
Do a Google search SK 84231 they can be purchased for around $88.00
http://www.tooltopia.com/

jjkrjh
12-19-2008, 05:39 PM
Dave I just tried to search them on S/O website and found that they seem to be available now. At one point they listed the set but the pricing was NA and it said something about being sold only to factory authorized technicians. So I guess it must not be the case anymore.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=73689&group_ID=19385&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

I stand corrected. :bounce:

If you look at the individual sockets, it says for authorised tech's only. So I would have to say that you are correct.

rhandwor
12-19-2008, 08:12 PM
I've noticed the authorized techs only but purchased a few bits by just clicking on them. The order went through even though I'm retired at this time.