Hanging Fixtures using EMT Fittings

[porschedude996TT]

Is this legal? I mean to use the tubing and the fittings to hold the fixture from the ceiling? The eletrical wiring would be down one of the tubes. If not I could add a whip cord and a receptical to the ceiling in a third box and the inspector couldn't say a thing. I just wouldn't hang the fixtures until after the final. I think it looks pretty clean...

[phorsfi]

As an electrician you wouldn't find that in my garage... EMT fittings dont hold much, basically you have the weight of your fixture hanging off the set screw, not cool. If we need to hang a fixture from conduit we use rigid, thread it and screw the conduit into a propper electrical box and a fixture designed for the purpose.

Just my 2c...

[tfi racing]

I doubt he will let that fly,the set screws aren't up to the task.You should be able to use 1/2" threaded rigid conduit(the prethreaded 1/2" NPT galvanized pipe in the plumbing section of your local big box store will substitute) with lock nuts instead of EMT and connectors.

[LoneGunman]

Supporting the fixtures with EMT would not fly here and in my opinion is generally a bad idea, you are relying on a set screw to keep the fixture from falling. Also in my area, you are not getting a final without your fixtures being installed, that's the whole reason for a final inspection, keeping people like you from doing what you said you would do.

[Charles (in GA)]

The closest I have come to this, is using 3/4 EMT and bending it and attaching it to the back of my workbenches, and I have 8 ft two bulb fluorescent fixtures attached to it using compression type fittings. While I have thought about drilling a 1/8 hole thru the fitting and tubing and installing a cotter pin for safety, I never have. One of the fixtures has been installed this way for about 25 years, the other one only about 5 years. Both lights have cords running thru the EMT and out the bottom at the back of the workbench and plugged into outlets. Pull chain switches are mounted in the ends of each fixture. Below is a clip from a pic I took from my scissor lift that shows part of the light fixture and support.

I would never do this with ceiling mounted fixtures, and would never consider using set screw fittings to do this. You could use intermediate metal conduit (which is considered rigid) and it is pipe threaded but not as heavy nor as bulky as "water pipe" rigid conduit.

What I have is not a permanent building installation, it is mounted to freestanding workbenches, and is cord and plug connected. Hanging fixtures from the ceiling or roof is a whole 'nuther story. I hung my Metal Halide 400w fixtures from unistrut bolted between two purlins, with large 1/2-13 threaded eyebolts to hang the fixtures from. The eyebolts were threaded into heavy unistrut nuts and have jamnuts safeguarding them. I used one of these eyebolts and an engine hoist to lift a 700+ lb gun safe, so I know they are strong enough. Overkill, yes, but I didn't want fixtures coming down on me.

Charles

[Mellotron]

I actually admire the creativity of your idea. You might consider eliminating the set screws all together and drilling a hole completely through and replacing the set screw with a bolt and lock nut. I'm sure the Romex will fit to one side of the bolt much like using an extension rod for a ceiling fan. But hell, i'm not gonna argue with well seasoned electricians. I appreciate their advice.

[Iron-Iceberg]

No Romex inside EMT either. Sorry.

[rinny_tin_tin]

I can't think of a reason why this would be considered illegal or not code. It seems comparable to many of the light fixture means out there now. What reg/code cite would say you can;t do this? Looks fine to me.

[Charles (in GA)]

No Romex inside EMT either. Sorry.

Care to elaborate? Code references?

Charles

[Mr_fixit]

NO Romex in conduit? Then why do they make a connector for romex to emt?

[rsanter]

what if you drilled a hole so the set screw went into the hole so that the screw actually suports the conduit and its not just a friction hold.

I would not want to have that over my car, but you could add a chain for safety

bob

[LoneGunman]

Romex inside of conduit screams "home owner or handyman" but it is not a code violation.

"I can't think of a reason why this would be considered illegal or not code. It seems comparable to many of the light fixture means out there now. What reg/code cite would say you can;t do this? Looks fine to me."

It's not properly supported, the inspector does not have to cite an article number and asking him to on something like this will be a guarantee to get your balls busted on the rest of the job. Is a panel installed with paneling nails okay because the code does not specifically forbid it?

The inspectors favorite answer for something like this if the issue is pushed is "please show me that the EMT connector is UL listed for fixture support"

[Aceman]

Is this legal? I mean to use the tubing and the fittings to hold the fixture from the ceiling?
358.12(5) specifically says emt can't support light fixtures.

Standard practice is to hang fixtures from jack chain. Then change your emt out to aluminum flex and chase some stranded THHN down to the fixture. I usually zip tie the flex to the chain, makes a pretty clean install.
No Romex inside EMT either. Sorry.
334.15(B) says otherwise.

[Charles (in GA)]

Indeed, in chapter 9 of the code, footnotes (5) and (9) address calculations of conduit fill for multi-wire conductor cables. They would not have this information if it were not allowed.

Charles

[precisionsc54]

That fitting is made for short runs were all the coating is stripped and just the individual conductors are pushed up the pipe typically in an exposed situation were pipe is needed. Also you cant hang a fixture of the EMT alone. It has to be independently supported from the piping

[rinny_tin_tin]

Ok - I agree the friction fit of the set screw seems cheesy - however, many of the support means I have seen for residential ltg fixtures are not much better. For instance, a strap across a junction box held in place with two 8-32 screws with a threaded tubular fitting to the fixture? If a pin was put across inside the tube to secure the pipe, it would be fine given the weight.

[rinny_tin_tin]

358.12(5) specifically says emt can't support light fixtures.

Standard practice is to hang fixtures from jack chain. Then change your emt out to aluminum flex and chase some stranded THHN down to the fixture. I usually zip tie the flex to the chain, makes a pretty clean install.

334.15(B) says otherwise.

Yup - yer right 358.12(5) says no good to use EMT to support luminaires.

[LoneGunman]

Ok - I agree the friction fit of the set screw seems cheesy - however, many of the support means I have seen for residential ltg fixtures are not much better. For instance, a strap across a junction box held in place with two 8-32 screws with a threaded tubular fitting to the fixture? If a pin was put across inside the tube to secure the pipe, it would be fine given the weight.

You are missing the point, it is not a CODE COMPLIANT installation, will it work and probably be fine, yes I think it will but it will not pass an inspection. The lighting fixtures are UL listed along with their fastening means.

[porschedude996TT]

I think I am going to modify my design and install a third box in the middle with a armored whip cord and replace the screws with hitch pins after I drill all the way through the EMT. That way I should be able to dodge the NEC infractions. I can't see how the inspector could say anything about the EMT since it is not used as the material was intended. It is an Architectural Detail. And yes, I would park my 996TT under it. I say that with confidence since I see what UL approves, i.e. all the crap from China with marginal materials and fastening. It is just a home made lamp fixture. I don't think there is a code that mandates that all Fixtures are UL approved. This design exceeds the strength of the funky little chain and "V" hanger that came with the fixture which was made in the US and is UL Approved. I'll post some pictures later today.

[rinny_tin_tin]

You are missing the point, it is not a CODE COMPLIANT installation, will it work and probably be fine, yes I think it will but it will not pass an inspection. The lighting fixtures are UL listed along with their fastening means.


Well, if you want to split hairs and invoke "code" -- what jurisdiction are you talking about and what version of the NEC does that jurisdiction invoke?
358.12 (5) doesn't exist in the 1999 NEC while it does in the 2002, yet I have yet to see any jurisdiction invoke the "latest" NEC - with many enforcing NEC editions 12 years or more back. As for UL listing - UL only lists devices and not their uses, while inspectors rarely look for any listing mark.

Even where jurisdictions invoke the NEC, they almost never invoke the whole publication and more commonly, adopt pieces and parts. . Finally, the NFPA calls the NEC a "code" but this is a misnomer as technically a "code" is invoked through a statute. If its not in statute, it is unenforceable.

At this point, it is worthwhile to note that the building codes, along with any other standards "codes" incorporated by reference into statute only represent the minimum standard of care, while most all authorities provide some means to consider and approve equivalency provisions for technology not considered at time of rulemaking. Therefore, to flat out reject the proposed install simply because it is not specifically identified via a listing or whatever, exceeds the authority of any building code official.

However, we both seem to agree that the subject installation is fine if a pin was used as a retainer in lieu of a set screw, and in that regard, that is good enough for me.

[rinny_tin_tin]

I think I am going to modify my design and install a third box in the middle with a armored whip cord and replace the screws with hitch pins after I drill all the way through the EMT. That way I should be able to dodge the NEC infractions. I can't see how the inspector could say anything about the EMT since it is not used as the material was intended. It is an Architectural Detail. And yes, I would park my 996TT under it. I say that with confidence since I see what UL approves, i.e. all the crap from China with marginal materials and fastening. It is just a home made lamp fixture. I don't think there is a code that mandates that all Fixtures are UL approved. This design exceeds the strength of the funky little chain and "V" hanger that came with the fixture which was made in the US and is UL Approved. I'll post some pictures later today.

I think you hit the nail on the head - you modified the EMT into a homemade light fixture using hitch pins which is comparable to other "approved" means. Unless the inspector wants to be difficult, you should have no problem.

[kbs2244]

I do think it would work without problems.
But EMT and their fittings are not designed with structural use in mind and the inspector may take to be a problem.
You could look into the ceiling supports they use for the drop down ceiling fans.
Those drop tubes are just NPT pipe, with the hole drilled, and with their in the ceiling braces, they are OK as structural members.
Or, I am sure there are some places on the top of the fixtures for a chain to be attached.
A "J" hook screwed into the wood and a length of chain would make the EMT non structural and thus everything is OK.
(If you didn't like the look, the chain might get recycled at a latter date.)

[porschedude996TT]

Ok, here is the latest. I drilled through the EMT and this allows the screws to pass through the EMT and the screws are holding the EMT in shear. Much more area in shear than the chain or other similar fixtures at the same weight with only a couple of crappy rolled Chinese threads that are somehow UL rated. There is no wiring running through the EMT and the electrical supply is via a whip cord to a single 15 amp receptacle.

How am I doing now?

[walrus]

Ok, here is the latest. I drilled through the EMT and this allows the screws to pass through the EMT and the screws are holding the EMT in shear. Much more area in shear than the chain or other similar fixtures at the same weight with only a couple of crappy rolled Chinese threads that are somehow UL rated. There is no wiring running through the EMT and the electrical supply is via a whip cord to a single 15 amp receptacle.

How am I doing now?

You have a male plug on mc cable?

[walrus]

NO Romex in conduit? Then why do they make a connector for romex to emt?

Is that fitting listed for romex? or is it made for mc cable?

[LoneGunman]

You have a male plug on mc cable?

LOL, let him do what he wishes, he's sure he has the solution. I'd just love to be a fly on the wall for this inspection.

[LoneGunman]

"Even where jurisdictions invoke the NEC, they almost never invoke the whole publication and more commonly, adopt pieces and parts. . Finally, the NFPA calls the NEC a "code" but this is a misnomer as technically a "code" is invoked through a statute. If its not in statute, it is unenforceable. "

I don't know what jurisdiction you are in but every jurisdiction I have worked in adopted the code in its entirety except for small parts and they have the statutory right to enforce that code. Usually they are either 3 or six years behind, I am working under 2005 now and word has it 2008 will not be adopted because of the AFCI requirements.



"Therefore, to flat out reject the proposed install simply because it is not specifically identified via a listing or whatever, exceeds the authority of any building code official. "

LOL okay, you be sure to tell an inspector he is exceeding his authority, let me know where that gets you.

If it's something that's a big deal and either time or money intensive and he is wrong then by all means argue that point, is it worth the effort and probable backlash for a ridiculous reason, such as a certain way to mount lights when you can mount them using standard trade practices?

I don't give a 5hit what he does or anyone does in their home, advice was asked for and that's what he received from several electricians who deal with inspectors on a daily basis. The inspector sees that fixture installation method and a male cordcap on a piece of MC cable he's going into the "this guy is clueless" mode and will nitpick the whole job. Of course you can try arguing but as I said, right or wrong they can and will make your life miserable.

[rinny_tin_tin]

"Therefore, to flat out reject the proposed install simply because it is not specifically identified via a listing or whatever, exceeds the authority of any building code official. "

LOL okay, you be sure to tell an inspector he is exceeding his authority, let me know where that gets you.

If it's something that's a big deal and either time or money intensive and he is wrong then by all means argue that point, is it worth the effort and probable backlash for a ridiculous reason, such as a certain way to mount lights when you can mount them using standard trade practices?

I don't give a 5hit what he does or anyone does in their home, advice was asked for and that's what he received from several electricians who deal with inspectors on a daily basis. The inspector sees that fixture installation method and a male cordcap on a piece of MC cable he's going into the "this guy is clueless" mode and will nitpick the whole job. Of course you can try arguing but as I said, right or wrong they can and will make your life miserable.

I dunno - it seems to me that most master electricians as do most building inspectors seem have an unprecedented perspective of their lower colons than anyone else. :)
:lol_hitti

[mmg440]

If for some reason the inspector bounces it. I wouldn't argue. You could always go get some 1/2 pluming flanges for the top and run 1/2 galvanized water pipe to the fixtures to mount them. or put up the chains traditionally used to pass inspection. then remount your hardware for the look you want. With your bolts going all the way threw and you supply running isolated from the home made mounts and I assume just plugged in. I would hope you won't have a hassle.

[LoneGunman]

I dunno - it seems to me that most master electricians as do most building inspectors seem have an unprecedented perspective of their lower colons than anyone else. :)
:lol_hitti

Yup, and it's usually caused by dealing with the clueless on a daily basis.

[porschedude996TT]

"Even where jurisdictions invoke the NEC, they almost never invoke the whole publication and more commonly, adopt pieces and parts. . Finally, the NFPA calls the NEC a "code" but this is a misnomer as technically a "code" is invoked through a statute. If its not in statute, it is unenforceable. "

I don't know what jurisdiction you are in but every jurisdiction I have worked in adopted the code in its entirety except for small parts and they have the statutory right to enforce that code. Usually they are either 3 or six years behind, I am working under 2005 now and word has it 2008 will not be adopted because of the AFCI requirements.



"Therefore, to flat out reject the proposed install simply because it is not specifically identified via a listing or whatever, exceeds the authority of any building code official. "

LOL okay, you be sure to tell an inspector he is exceeding his authority, let me know where that gets you.

If it's something that's a big deal and either time or money intensive and he is wrong then by all means argue that point, is it worth the effort and probable backlash for a ridiculous reason, such as a certain way to mount lights when you can mount them using standard trade practices?

I don't give a 5hit what he does or anyone does in their home, advice was asked for and that's what he received from several electricians who deal with inspectors on a daily basis. The inspector sees that fixture installation method and a male cordcap on a piece of MC cable he's going into the "this guy is clueless" mode and will nitpick the whole job. Of course you can try arguing but as I said, right or wrong they can and will make your life miserable.


I guess I misunderstand the code (or one of use does) and where it leaves off to the consumer.

If I place a receptacle in the ceiling, as I will in any case, and screw in two little #8 hooks into the drywall and hang the light fixture from the dainty little chain that it came with, and plug the whip cord then it is ok?

As I see it the code leaves off to the consumer to do what ever he wants to do. If I chose to design my own fixture and plug it into a legal in code receptacle then I have meet the obligation to the code, the building department, and whatever fire code you can come up with.

Not all lamps and fixtures are nor need be UL approved. I have seen some pretty crappy designs that should be illegal and they are “UL” approved. I must ask the industry why is it ok to hang a ¼ Horsepower motor/fan on two little #10 screw that are made from nearly pot-metal that are so sloppy they could be stripped in if slightly over tightened. I think of it everytime I'm under that fan in my family room.

It is no different from buying a lamp socket and sticking it in a tree stump with a lamp shade and plugging it into the receptacle.

I have exceeded the code, designed a simple lamp using off the shelf hardware and just because you think that I should design it for the nuclear industry you’re scoffing at my design. Ahh, I don’t plan on running heavy equipment around my shop and I don’t plan on defending the United States with this facility. My requirements do not need to be explosion proof and I don’t plan on making fireworks within my shop. I have ample size wire and ample size circuit breakers and will have hung fixtures with more structure and higher amounts of shear capacity than the fixture manufacturer intended.

"Therefore, to flat out reject the proposed install simply because it is not specifically identified via a listing or whatever, exceeds the authority of any building code official.” Yes, it exceeds his authority, and anyone that plays nicey and kowtow to these idiots is exacerbating the problem. He has no right to inquire as to what I am sticking into the recepticle.

I thought I would get some kudos for doing something inventive, simple, sleek, and unique here in this forum, but unless I lower myself to one knee to the inspector you think I will never pass. I have seen and dealt with the like of these over zealous governmental buffoons try to over extend their authority and spared with them successfully.

The inspector that I have been dealing with is no mental giant and he was explaining at length that I didn’t need the 35’ of ground wire instead of 4’ to the re-bar for my UFER Ground.

I will send you a personal account of what my inspector says during my electrical rough-in inspection. Shall I caclulate the shear differences between my design, he dainty little chain and the nuclear design that you suggest?

Wow!, it is amazing how soon this section with 94 threads is infected with at least one lone know-it-all…

[LoneGunman]

"As I see it the code leaves off to the consumer to do what ever he wants to do. If I chose to design my own fixture and plug it into a legal in code receptacle then I have meet the obligation to the code, the building department, and whatever fire code you can come up with."

In your first post you left no indication you were using a cord connected device, the first time I saw a cord was your last pic with the cord cap on a piece of MC. You are also mistaken but go ahead and leave that MC whip with the cord cap on it, you may get an inspector who's blind or who don't give a damn and hey that's great.

"I thought I would get some kudos for doing something inventive, simple, sleek, and unique here in this forum, but unless I lower myself to one knee to the inspector you think I will never pass. I have seen and dealt with the like of these over zealous governmental buffoons try to over extend their authority and spared with them successfully."

And there it is, you came here for a "WOW, brilliant idea, let's all give him a pat on the back", when you were given honest and helpful opinions, that YOU asked for, from people working in the trade you didn't like those opinions. Like I said, I really don't give a shit what you do in your own house BUT when asked, I am not going to blow smoke up your ass and say a non code compliant installation is a good installation. You wouldn't happen to be an engineer would you?

"Wow!, it is amazing how soon this section with 94 threads is infected with at least one lone know-it-all…"

When it comes to electrical work and what passes and what most likely will not, I do know a lot more than you and most of the people in this forum as I should, as does Aceman (the resident code know it all, and I do mean it as a compliment), Sberry and the other electricians or those familiar with electrical work that responded in this thread. Theres at least three electricians who responded negatively to your idea but hey, what do we know. As I've said multiple times, I don't care what you do, if you don't want honest answers then don't ask.





"Shall I caclulate the shear differences between my design, he dainty little chain and the nuclear design that you suggest?"

And once again, nobody at least not me said your design was not strong enough, I also did not suggest a design, I pointed out the deficiencies in YOUR design which you asked for.

[ddawg16]

May I offer up the following......

"We learn by our mistakes, that is why we are so freaking smart".

With that said....and going through the constrution of my garage....I'm starting to have a real appreciation for some of the construction regulations/guidlines in place.....

So....staying on topic.....

Is there any exposed Romex?
Can you grab ahold of the fixture and hang from it?

If the answer is no to both questions....I would be willing to be it will pass....

[porschedude996TT]

First of all I was not looking for a pat on the back. I was asking if this was legal and I saw the light and added the receptacle and the whip cord as shown in my second set of pictures. I did take the advice that was given. Somehow I was getting that I couldn't use the off the shelf hardware to support the fixture from the ceiling...

The whip was made of SO Cable hidden in a piece of MC overwrap and a male three prong 120v 15 amp plug with a cord grip to the fixture.

Yes, as a matter of fact I am a design engineer working on Missiles and Ground Equipment that services hypergolic propellant systems. And an Aircraft Mechanic to boot with an Air Frame and Powerplant License.

No there is no exposed romex, and yes I could hang my 190 lb body weight from it, which I might add that is way more than the dainty little chain that came with it.

After evaluating the design and the costs to place the box, female receptacle, cover plate, male plug, I am going as you all suggest with rigid conduit. My reluctance to do so in the first place was due to the threading of the Rigid Pipe and trying to have all ten of the lights come out at the same level and in a straight line.

I didn't realize that all these questions in the forum were directed to experts as yourself. How is one to tell who is an expert and who is just passing gas. I thought it was a forum to express ideas between Garage Enthusiast. I've taken the suggestions, but you my friend have taken all the fun out of this exchange for me with your condescending attitude, spouting of section and don't give a 5hit comments.

[rinny_tin_tin]

First of all I was not looking for a pat on the back. I was asking if this was legal and I saw the light and added the receptacle and the whip cord as shown in my second set of pictures. I did take the advice that was given. Somehow I was getting that I couldn't use the off the shelf hardware to support the fixture from the ceiling...

The whip was made of SO Cable hidden in a piece of MC overwrap and a male three prong 120v 15 amp plug with a cord grip to the fixture.

Yes, as a matter of fact I am a design engineer working on Missiles and Ground Equipment that services hypergolic propellant systems. And an Aircraft Mechanic to boot with an Air Frame and Powerplant License.

No there is no exposed romex, and yes I could hang my 190 lb body weight from it, which I might add that is way more than the dainty little chain that came with it.

After evaluating the design and the costs to place the box, female receptacle, cover plate, male plug, I am going as you all suggest with rigid conduit. My reluctance to do so in the first place was due to the threading of the Rigid Pipe and trying to have all ten of the lights come out at the same level and in a straight line.

I didn't realize that all these questions in the forum were directed to experts as yourself. How is one to tell who is an expert and who is just passing gas. I thought it was a forum to express ideas between Garage Enthusiast. I've taken the suggestions, but you my friend have taken all the fun out of this exchange for me with your condescending attitude, spouting of section and don't give a 5hit comments.


Don't let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch - seems you received some useful comments/feedback. Simply ignore the braggarts/pontificators and the self-important and focus on the useful.

[Kevin54]

First of all I was not looking for a pat on the back. I was asking if this was legal and I saw the light and added the receptacle and the whip cord as shown in my second set of pictures. I did take the advice that was given. Somehow I was getting that I couldn't use the off the shelf hardware to support the fixture from the ceiling...

The whip was made of SO Cable hidden in a piece of MC overwrap and a male three prong 120v 15 amp plug with a cord grip to the fixture.

Yes, as a matter of fact I am a design engineer working on Missiles and Ground Equipment that services hypergolic propellant systems. And an Aircraft Mechanic to boot with an Air Frame and Powerplant License.

No there is no exposed romex, and yes I could hang my 190 lb body weight from it, which I might add that is way more than the dainty little chain that came with it.

After evaluating the design and the costs to place the box, female receptacle, cover plate, male plug, I am going as you all suggest with rigid conduit. My reluctance to do so in the first place was due to the threading of the Rigid Pipe and trying to have all ten of the lights come out at the same level and in a straight line.

I didn't realize that all these questions in the forum were directed to experts as yourself. How is one to tell who is an expert and who is just passing gas. I thought it was a forum to express ideas between Garage Enthusiast. I've taken the suggestions, but you my friend have taken all the fun out of this exchange for me with your condescending attitude, spouting of section and don't give a 5hit comments.


To code or not, I like the looks of the way it is hung. It gives it a nice clean look. :thumbup: Chances are that everyone one here has code violations in their house somewhere. Reason being is that some new person decides what is better over last years code. At least things get grandfathered in or we would all constantly be changing things and never get anything done.:bounce:

[rinny_tin_tin]

To code or not, I like the looks of the way it is hung. It gives it a nice clean look. :thumbup: Chances are that everyone one here has code violations in their house somewhere. Reason being is that some new person decides what is better over last years code. At least things get grandfathered in or we would all constantly be changing things and never get anything done.:bounce:

I also liked the clean look. :beer: You know - although there is more good than bad in the "Code" there is much politicking and the fielding other agendas in such fora. In fact, we have a saying:

"There are two things you don't wanna see made: sausages and standards"

:shocking:

[porschedude996TT]

Thanks Tin and Kevin!

[kbs2244]

I think the key is that the power doesn’t go through the EMT.
That takes the EMT, as shown, out of the realm of an electrical inspection.

[walrus]

The original poster asked for opinions, he got them and them some. Thats what happens on a message board, Everyone weighs in. The trick is taking the good and leaving the bad.

[rcleaver]

Does that mean the pissin' contest is over? :confused:
Who pissed the farthest? :bounce:
Come on guys. There hasn't been enough name calling yet.

BTW, if I hang upside down from an electrified chandelier, does that pass code? :bounce:

[LoneGunman]

"After evaluating the design and the costs to place the box, female receptacle, cover plate, male plug, I am going as you all suggest with rigid conduit. My reluctance to do so in the first place was due to the threading of the Rigid Pipe and trying to have all ten of the lights come out at the same level and in a straight line."

"The whip was made of SO Cable hidden in a piece of MC overwrap and a male three prong 120v 15 amp plug with a cord grip to the fixture."


Pissing match over and I will try to remember "how" things are said and how they may be taken by someone else. The design, as you have posted in the last pic is fine, I had no idea, or did anyone else know you had SJ cord inside of a piece of MC armor. The only remark I made about your last pic was the MC cable with a cord cap.

Why not keep the design you like (the EMT mounting), do away with the cordcap as it does take away from an otherwise clean installation and use a piece of MC cable as a whip from the fixture to a 1900 (4 square) box mounted directly over the fixture? Tie wrap the MC to the EMT so it's not obvious. You get the clean look you are after and it is a code compliant installation.

Or go with the RMC and do it like you originally wanted to.

[72VETTE454]

Everybody puts their own stamp on their garages. That's what makes us all unique. I say, do your own thing and enjoy it. Get opinions and suggestions from others, but ultimately, it's your choice. I personally do things that others would not do, but that's what makes the world go 'round. BTW - I like how the lights are hung.

[dipper]

If it were my garage, I would have hid the wires in the emt like you showed in your first post. I would have used galvanized pipe and fittings for a better hold though, or got rid of the set screws and put a bolt all the way through.
It looks good and It's your garage. Do what you want, just make sure it's safe.

[atvmech]

porschedude996TT, ive seen 8' fluorescent lights hung from the ceiling just as you have done. You did great, i would not have went back and changed your original design at all...

You guys mean to tell me a set screw wont hold that fixture? I dont know about you guys but the last thing i will be doing is getting rough with my lights! When a setscrew is SET it puts a dimple into the pipe and really the only way for it to come off is to be unscrewed and pulled off...

Pendant lights sometimes hang from small gauge wire...BUT this is not as strong....CRAZY

Not everybody is a BMW,,clean freak, no code breaking, anal, negative jerk
....there are some like myself that have other things to worry about such as what you have in the garage. I believe you guys do have some GREAT GREAT advice, but you have to look at who your are giving the advice to....are you giving advice to a guy that owns a BMW and is anal about everything he owns, or is this the guy with a bare bones garage that wants a place to work on his 83' long bed chevy 3/4 ton with about 13" of lift.....dont care what you say, those are 2 different people!!

I lurked around this board for awhile, seemed pretty cool, joined, and get ripped a new one, I dont care, because for as many of you jerks this board has there has also been some good ole boys ive found, and thats why im still on here.

porschedude996TT, GOOD JOB!!

[Charles (in GA)]

The OP made this statement in the beginning of his post................

Is this legal? I mean to use the tubing and the fittings to hold the fixture from the ceiling? The eletrical wiring would be down one of the tubes.

Based on that, he got alot of answers. Short and sweet of it is, no, it isn't legal.

Charles

[LoneGunman]

"Not everybody is a BMW,,clean freak, no code breaking, anal, negative jerk
....there are some like myself that have other things to worry about such as what you have in the garage."


Ummmmm yeah, well you have the honor of writing the most idiotic post I have read on here. The guy is getting an ELECTRICAL INSPECTION, so he had better worry about the code. So, sure go ahead and not worry about your electricial system and only worry about what you have in your garage, I NEED more people like you in my area.

[atvmech]

OK LONEGUNMAN...

idiotic? no...

Where i live there is no CODE....with that being said Mr. Gung-Ho electrician man....you...tell me.....and be honest....for just a SECOND take off your code abiding hat and be realistic...

WAS THE MANS IDEA BAD?
DO YOU -REALLY- THINK IT WILL FALL??
DO YOU LIGHTS TAKE THAT MUCH ABUSE?

Lets think about the abilities of a set screw

-centrifugal clutch on a go kart...held on by a set screw...but its not good enough to hold a light fixture??

-Pulleys on a paint mixing bank, all held on by a set screw churning tons of gallons of paint..?? But wont HOLD a light fixture??

-Pillar bearings connecting 2 seperate shafts....held by set screws....but not good enough to hold a light fixture..?

I can already see Im wasting my time and you dont get the jest of what im trying to say...

And as far as needing people like me? I wouldnt do business with somebody that had an attitude like yours...sorry...something to think about

[walrus]

Lets think about the abilities of a set screw

-centrifugal clutch on a go kart...held on by a set screw...but its not good enough to hold a light fixture??

-Pulleys on a paint mixing bank, all held on by a set screw churning tons of gallons of paint..?? But wont HOLD a light fixture??

-Pillar bearings connecting 2 seperate shafts....held by set screws....but not good enough to hold a light fixture..?

I can already see Im wasting my time and you dont get the jest of what im trying to say...

And as far as needing people like me? I wouldnt do business with somebody that had an attitude like yours...sorry...something to think about

The question was, "is this legal" .

A set screw for a centrifigal clutch is going into a solid piece of steel, a set screw for an EMT fitting is going into hollow thin wall tubing, not quite the same. EMT fittings can be steel or die cast, die cast fitting aren't very rugged and easily broken.

I think what the original poster did would work but I don't think it would pass inspection.

[Willy Victor]

I must say this has been one enjoyable read and a very spirited disussion. Thank you all.


Willy

[LoneGunman]

OK LONEGUNMAN...

idiotic? no...

Where i live there is no CODE....with that being said Mr. Gung-Ho electrician man....you...tell me.....and be honest....for just a SECOND take off your code abiding hat and be realistic...

WAS THE MANS IDEA BAD?
DO YOU -REALLY- THINK IT WILL FALL??
DO YOU LIGHTS TAKE THAT MUCH ABUSE?

Lets think about the abilities of a set screw

-centrifugal clutch on a go kart...held on by a set screw...but its not good enough to hold a light fixture??

-Pulleys on a paint mixing bank, all held on by a set screw churning tons of gallons of paint..?? But wont HOLD a light fixture??

-Pillar bearings connecting 2 seperate shafts....held by set screws....but not good enough to hold a light fixture..?

I can already see Im wasting my time and you dont get the jest of what im trying to say...

And as far as needing people like me? I wouldnt do business with somebody that had an attitude like yours...sorry...something to think about
Where you live there is no code huh? I find that hard to believe, post your location, county is fine. Besides, what difference does it make if your claim is true and you have no code? The OP has a code, so yet again you make more moronic statements that have absolutely nothing to do with this post.

Yes, you are wasting your time because you obviously do not have the ability to understand simple logic. What part of he has an inspection do you not frigging get? I mean holy shit, I don't know how else to explain it to you, you are either a total moron or you do not understand the consequences of not following the code. If he does not follow the code, he fails his inspection, he either corrects the code violations within a set time frame or he gets fined, blow the fines off they build up until they lien the house or declare the house as unsafe and remove him from the premises.

"WAS THE MANS IDEA BAD?
DO YOU -REALLY- THINK IT WILL FALL??
DO YOU LIGHTS TAKE THAT MUCH ABUSE?"

NO TO ALL OF THE ABOVE, as I've said and so have others who do have a clue. It has nothing to do what works, he asked if it was legal, it is not. If you don't have the ability to comprehend that then I don't know what else to tell you.

Don't worry, we would not do business with people such as yourself either, it's not worth the aggravation trying to deal with someone who can't understand something so simple such as you must follow the code if you want to pass an inspection. I hope to hell you never move to an area that requires inspections, you'd loose your house due to the fines you racked up by refusing to comply.

[Aceman]

Wow....this topic really snowballed!

Just something I've noticed after answering other posts in the past asking for code advice. It seems everytime a diyer asks for opinions after the install, and it doesn't go the direction he/forum wants, it turns into a big debate. What it all boils down too, like LG said above, is the inspector. Does winning an argument on an internet forum help in any way come inspection time? No. People just need to chill out and realize that trying to convince a bunch of us on here that the installation won't fall to the ground, has no bearing on what the inspector thinks. If some of us cite code articles, don't make excuses for not following protocol, just live with the fact you probably won't pass.

My personal opinion is you guys can do whatever you like in your own homes, but if you ask for code articles because you're trying to do it right, I'll help you if I can. But arguing with us because you don't see the reasoning behind the code articles we gave you accomplishes nothing.

The smart move would be to ask for code advice before you install it if you're unsure.

[rinny_tin_tin]

Wow....this topic really snowballed!

Just something I've noticed after answering other posts in the past asking for code advice. It seems everytime a diyer asks for opinions after the install, and it doesn't go the direction he/forum wants, it turns into a big debate. What it all boils down too, like LG said above, is the inspector. Does winning an argument on an internet forum help in any way come inspection time? No. People just need to chill out and realize that trying to convince a bunch of us on here that the installation won't fall to the ground, has no bearing on what the inspector thinks. If some of us cite code articles, don't make excuses for not following protocol, just live with the fact you probably won't pass.

My personal opinion is you guys can do whatever you like in your own homes, but if you ask for code articles because you're trying to do it right, I'll help you if I can. But arguing with us because you don't see the reasoning behind the code articles we gave you accomplishes nothing.

The smart move would be to ask for code advice before you install it if you're unsure.


If it was just a matter of reading code articles, then this forum would likely not be here. Besides, interpretation of the so-called code articles is just as likely to stimulate as spirited a discussion here as it does on the code-making panels. On more than one occasion, I have seen Mark Early and others dodge a chair or some other flying object. I see the purpose of this type of fora to not only educate and enrich with knowledge, but to invite innovation. Inevitably, some will quote code and render interpretation as matters of immutable fact - when even opinions expressed by the respective CMP will widely vary. More importantly, and in many case, the basis of the "code" is lost to not only the casual user, but even among the respective CMP. Inasmuch as I agree with you that arguing as the reasoning behind the code to be pointless, such argument may indeed resurrect or provide insight into its basis. Besides - this is an internet forum ...one would be unrealistic if they expected better behavior here than in a real-life committee meeting :headscrat.

[mmg440]

Wow....this topic really snowballed!

Just something I've noticed after answering other posts in the past asking for code advice. It seems everytime a diyer asks for opinions after the install, and it doesn't go the direction he/forum wants, it turns into a big debate. What it all boils down too, like LG said above, is the inspector. Does winning an argument on an internet forum help in any way come inspection time? No. People just need to chill out and realize that trying to convince a bunch of us on here that the installation won't fall to the ground, has no bearing on what the inspector thinks. If some of us cite code articles, don't make excuses for not following protocol, just live with the fact you probably won't pass.

My personal opinion is you guys can do whatever you like in your own homes, but if you ask for code articles because you're trying to do it right, I'll help you if I can. But arguing with us because you don't see the reasoning behind the code articles we gave you accomplishes nothing.

The smart move would be to ask for code advice before you install it if you're unsure.

I believe that is just what happened here porschedude996TT did ask for advice BEFORE the install.
If you look back at his pictures you will see he has the light unit mounted to a 2x4 held up by a ladder on each side. I would appear he was asking before. I do like his idea. I did not like the set screw.(his update is solid code or not). If it was originally showed in rigged or pipe it may have never been in question. It may have not passed some inspectors but I would think with rigid like a fan mount it would probley not be questioned.

[hidollartoys]

Porsche: Why dont you hang just one fixture for the inspection and after you recieve your CO go back and do what you want?

[Mr_fixit]

I enjoyed the discussion, But, I don't think these really do anything but hurt the discussion..


"moronic, idiotic, 5hit, clueless, blind, don't give a damn, do not have the ability to understand simple logic, frigging, holy shit, total moron, and can't understand something so simple"

[LoneGunman]

I enjoyed the discussion, But, I don't think these really do anything but hurt the discussion..


"moronic, idiotic, 5hit, clueless, blind, don't give a damn, do not have the ability to understand simple logic, frigging, holy shit, total moron, and can't understand something so simple"

And your post somehow adds something to the discussion? If the shoe fits, wear it.

[Ryan]

I think a few of you need to learn a little bit more respectful to other users... Closed cuz I'm not running a kindergarten.