items lost during shipping.

[riley.m]

i recently bought a set of gearwrenches on ebay,i paid through paypal.The package arrived in two days,that is the fastest shipping i have ever had.the only problem is that the envelope was torn and none of the wrenches made it to my mailbox.needless to say i am pretty disappointed that the seller didnt take better care to ensure that this didnt happen.
Has this ever happened to anyone on this board.I think paypal will reinburse me.if you have any experiance with this issue,let me know how you handled it,and what came of it.

[rodm1]

Yep, Lost a Snappy ratchet got a grate price on it to. Most of my other ratchets had torn packaging to. I always ask for extra padding on pointed tools.:mad:

[autoace]

I sold an item "that was lost in the mail",empty package on arrival. I gave the buyer his money back, but there are thieves in the Postal Service I think. There was no way in hell, the package I sent was accidentally broke open. It was tampered with. Anyway the post office wouldn't do squat..check this..the package wasn't even damaged so someone opened it, stole ,and retaped the damn thing. Anyhow I refunded the guy......we both got shafted, he didn't get what he wanted, and it cost me to lose it for no reason.

[davestlouis]

I got part of the label back from the USPS, with a claim form, for a ratchet I shipped...the ratchet and the rest of the package went missing. Pisses me off.

[tcheat]

Same experience here. Like new Snap On 1/2" drive ratchet. All I got was an empty package and a note from the Postmaster saying sorry. I've filed a claim, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll never use USPS for anything other than letters again.

[rhandwor]

You can always pay extra for insurance appx. $1.50 UPS has $100.00 max value unless otherwise specified. This is why tool companies ship UPS.

[davestlouis]

USPS offers insurance, at least on boxed items, paid $2.66 to insure a shipment worth $125 today.

[snapmom]

File with paypal, item not as described. It is the sellers responsibily to get your items to you. he is the one who has to file a claim, not you.

[Rigmaster]

File with paypal, item not as described. It is the sellers responsibily to get your items to you. he is the one who has to file a claim, not you.

I agree, BUT most sellers leave it up to the buyer whether or not they want to pay for insurance. I'll be the first to admit that I usually do NOT pay extra for insurance for stuff that I buy.


But I also take extra care as a seller to make sure to carefully pack my items for shipment. I use tons of clear packing tape, I do not trust the sealing strip on those USPS flat rate envelopes, nor do I trust the glue that holds them together. If I use them to ship a small tool (wrench/sockets, etc) I put them in an envelope or wrap them in cardboard first, then stick them in the USPS envelope and tape the heck out of it so it will not fall out.


Basically, I try to pack stuff the way I would like for sellers to pack stuff when they ship it to me, but obviously not everyone follows the same principle.


First step is to advise the seller and see how they react, that will tell you if you need to file a claim with Paypal right away or not.

[LoneGunman]

File with paypal, item not as described. It is the sellers responsibily to get your items to you. he is the one who has to file a claim, not you.

I disagree, I sell a good amount on Ebay and offer insurance, I'd say 95% don't want to pay the extra $1.50 for it, once the shipping label is printed through PayPal and is picked up by the USPS my responsibility ends. I have noticed many sellers requiring insurance now, which in my opinion should not be allowed but I guess too many people are not buying insurance and winning PP claims.

It sucks because I buy a lot and do not usually buy insurance unless the item is expensive. I have been burned once or twice by not buying the insurance but if I averaged it out I'm still WAY ahead than if I paid retail. I consider it part of the cost of the items.

In my opinion it is not a good idea to claim"not as described" when you have never received the item to make that determination. I can understand why you suggest to do so, if he claims "Item not received" and the sender shipped from PayPal there is free delivery confirmation, if he claims "not received" and delivery confirmation shows it was delivered then he looses.

I claimed "not as described" as you suggested on an empty box, I lost because the seller offered a refund if I returned the merchandise, obviously I could not so PP ruled in his favor. I also could not open up another dispute for the same transaction.

[wrenchr]

I sold a ratchet to 64merc once and the envelope arrived empty!! I sent him another ratchet and collected on the insurance. I think there is a thief or thiefs working at the post office.

[LoneGunman]

I sold a ratchet to 64merc once and the envelope arrived empty!! I sent him another ratchet and collected on the insurance. I think there is a thief or thiefs working at the post office.

Oh I know there are, I was watching the tracking on an item. It showed delivered at like 2PM, I was home. In fact I watched the thief drive by. I called the PO and told them either their mail carrier dropped my stuff off at the wrong house or he's a thief. This is after "loosing" 2 packages in three weeks. My package mysteriously showed up in 20 minutes after I told the PO I was calling the Sheriffs Office and the Postal Police. The carrier claimed he dropped it off at the wrong house, I asked is that where my other two packages were delivered, he would not answer. Then I asked where he delivered it to and he would not tell me. No doubt in my mind he's a thief.

Selling on here is totally different , I'd refund the money to a member here or send a replacement, unfortunately you cannot play nice on Ebay.

[snapmom]

Its the sellers responsibilty to see that the item is delivered. (paypal rule) I you do not get it OR it is not as described. Paypal WILL give you your money back, If the seller purchased insurance, the SELLER has to file the claim, so its in the sellers best interest to buy insurance, not the buyers. These are the paypal rules, paypal will ALWAYS side with the buyer in these cases.

[bushhawg73]

When I sell on ebay I increase my shipping cost by 2.00 on most items. I put insurance on everything weather the buyer wants it or not. To date I have only had one item lost in the mail and I was the buyer.

[LoneGunman]

Its the sellers responsibilty to see that the item is delivered. (paypal rule) I you do not get it OR it is not as described. Paypal WILL give you your money back, If the seller purchased insurance, the SELLER has to file the claim, so its in the sellers best interest to buy insurance, not the buyers. These are the paypal rules, paypal will ALWAYS side with the buyer in these cases.

No, they will not ALWAYS side with the buyer, I explained what happened to me already. Once a dispute is opened you both tell your side of the story, as I said, he offered to refund my money if I returned the merchandise because I claimed "not as described" and I could not because I did not have the merchandise to return.

The OP is free to make his own decision on what he should claim, good luck.

[MOPARHOUND!]

I had a padded envelope show up empty last Saturday with a sticker on it from the local Post Office that it arrived at their place "Unsealed" & "Without Contents". The package had been opened the full length of the sealing end, and had clear tape put back over it. Was suppose to have contained 2 3/8 ratchets, one a x-long flexhead. Fortunately, the seller refunded the money.

Post Office said parcel post, not liable, so I said you must have a license to steal as there is no recourse on any parcel post package that isn't stamped insured? (In their defense there was a possibility the ratchets somehow broke the package open (I considered doubtful, given how the package was opened), which in that case the seller was in the wrong for poor/inadequate packaging.) I went over the Post Office"s head, and filed a report with the U.S. Postal Inspector. Doubt anything comes of it, the claim is so small. But the U.S. Postal Inspector service wanted to know about it in case a pattern was developing on certain mail routes between Post Offices.

[jwh]

If you think someone is stealing your mail file a complaint with the Postal Inspection Service. As a Postal Service employee, I can tell you that stealing anything from the mails is a FEDERAL CRIME, and if proven guilty jail time will be in the thiefs' future.

Check out their website: postalinspectors.uspis.gov.

Ever seen those windows in the back rooms of Post Offices? The ones on the walls with the mirrored window and the little slots below? Those are the "Inspectors Galleries." The only people who can get in them are the Postal Inspectors. No one else, not the Postmaster, not the bosses, no one. How someone can be stupid enough to try stealing something in that environment is beyond me.

[Nik]

I bought a Matco Rat Fink shop stool off of ebay and it arrived with the box torn and pieces missing. The seller claimed it was all in the box, and the post office said sorry for your luck. Some sellers make you wonder though..............

[Kev442]

USPS is full of thieves and they know it. I received a box today torn open about half way. Far enough for them to look inside and see it wasn't something they wanted to steal. The packaging tape was still on the top, it took at least 20 lbs of pulling force to get the top open, that sure as he** didn't happen naturally!

[davestlouis]

And they wonder why people hate the post office.

[davestlouis]

I've never had an issue with FedEx or DHL, just USPS.

[-B-]

Shipping hard objects in an envelope is an idiotic move at best , envelopes are for soft things only.

Any person who fails to package products correctly are at fault period, whether they are insured or not. Insurance if for damage and theft of properly packaged products, it is the packers responsibility to so.

Packaging is easy you just have to out smart the common animal had goods in a box should be package in a way as to cushion, not allow shifting, and not make any noise when shaken violently. If the package make noise the animal will play with it until it make noise no more.

[Bolster]

I've never had an issue with FedEx or DHL, just USPS.

Well, USPS gets the government involved, wheras the others are private enterprises. Even an idiot knows that everything gets better with more government intervention.

[J.A.F.E.]

I sold a ratchet to 64merc once and the envelope arrived empty!! I sent him another ratchet and collected on the insurance. I think there is a thief or thiefs working at the post office.


Poor 64merc seems to have bad USPS kharma. I sent a breaker bar to him and the package got there with an added hole and no BB.

I'm working with the PO lost and found to see if it can be recovered. My lack of faith in the post ofice has been renewed with no offense meant to jwh.

[SocketDeviler]

I will take the hit and insure an uninsured item if the item is of certain value, usually around the $40+ mark. I'd rather pay then get endless venomous emails about how awful I am because a package was lost, damaged or stolen.

And for the record Paypal does not "always" side with the buyer but more than not they do. I don't blame disgruntled buyers for filing with Paypal over such an issue but keep in mind it's Paypal claims like this that have driven many ebay sellers away. The company I work for can cover the cost of a stolen item if need be but the average Joe can't which is why many of them are selling their goods on ebay in the first place.

As for shipping tools in padded envelopes I think that's asking for trouble. They should always be boxed and well taped.

[Nik]

I'm in the middle of a Paypal dispute right now. I bought a pair of chrome mags for my Harley, and the wienie hugger of a seller simply taped an address label to each rim and mailed them with NO box or padding, just two chrome rims banging about getting knicked and scratched. The seller doesn't understand why I'm pissed. Moron..............

[kythri]

Man, what's with all these sellers using an envelope to pack the stuff in? That's ridiculous, especially with the free boxes (not to mention, free flate rate boxes!) that shipping Priority Mail gives you...

[Rigmaster]

Man, what's with all these sellers using an envelope to pack the stuff in? That's ridiculous, especially with the free boxes (not to mention, free flate rate boxes!) that shipping Priority Mail gives you...

$$$$.

That's all there is to it. Flat rate envelope cost ~$4.80, flat rate box is double that.


There's nothing wrong with a flat rate envelope, provided you properly seal and protect the contents.

[Bo Heck]

Used to work at UPS, worst thing I heard of is when one of our drivers delivered to a guy and the guy took the package, thought it felt light, shook it, and realized there was nothing in it. The driver asked what was supposed to be in it. The man replied, "A Glock."

[kythri]

Small Flat Rate Box = $4.80

I guess they won't hold a bunch of ratchets, but a bunch of ratchets don't really belong in an envelope. :|

[Danglerb]

Its been months since my last dispute, but last I checked its the sellers responsibility to get the item to me in the condition described within 10 days, and it doesn't matter what they want to claim otherwise in a listing advising me to get insurance. Insurance is for the seller.

Disputes are about timely following all the rules, and understanding terms of service. If the seller offered a refund if the item was returned, return the torn empty envelope and use tracking.

Things are actually MUCH better these days, back before delivery confirmation it was crazy.

[64merc]

Poor 64merc seems to have bad USPS kharma. I sent a breaker bar to him and the package got there with an added hole and no BB.

I'm working with the PO lost and found to see if it can be recovered. My lack of faith in the post ofice has been renewed with no offense meant to jwh.

Yes, unfortunately, I think I do have bad USPS kharma. :(

I'd like to think that they were lost, and not taken by some sticky fingered postal employee. I have my doubts though.

[mkdive]

I lost 12 sockets that were mailed to me from a seller off eBay a month ago. The asshat put 15 sockets in a cheap flimsy brown paper bag (like a small lunch paper bag). Big hole that was taped up. Come on for $14 bucks of shipping he couldn't spring for a small shipping box?

[jerk_chicken]

Couple years ago, I bought some gearwreches from a seller on ebay. Maybe your same one. Neutraled them and thy got pissed, but they got the neutral after I spoke to them and I didn't get a valid response. I wasn't looking for a discount. I'll dig up the pictures from my other hard drive.

Basically, the packing was minimal, it was open, and I'm glad I even received them at all. It was the shrink wrap over the wrenches that saved them.

I just checked, they are no longer registered, which means they got banned or didn't pay, and are under another account now:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=benandbrittney&ftab=AllFeedback

I see others in the same boat. Basically, one piece of tape on the whole box, so it arrived open. Never seen such a thing. They wanted pics and I sent them, and no response. I just did it as a service so they can improve what they're doing. Anyhow, they lied in toe follow up and said it had more than one piece of tape, the box was damaged in transit and resealed. If it was resealed, then the box was shipped without any tape at all and opened. Damaged in transit? Don't use a huge box that was also like noodles and expect it to support weight on a mail truck.

And yes, I'm amazed that people will use envelopes and large envelope bags to send hard items. It's not always a matter of someone stealing an item directly. I've been inside several facilities and subcontractor/partners with the USPS. The problem is when you send shit in envelopes that are bulky, they run a higher likelihood of getting jammed, misrecognized, or a host of other problems when they go through the OCR and weighing machines. And if something is builky in it, the machine could end up dragging it and basically popping the item out, where it falls to the floor, and the envelope might be long gone into the system, recognized, coded, and in another part of the building due to the speeds. The security rooms are incredible. Not a single worker gets a chance to steal. They are the exceptions, obviously, and perhaps along the way others are stealing.

[jerk_chicken]

Used to work at UPS, worst thing I heard of is when one of our drivers delivered to a guy and the guy took the package, thought it felt light, shook it, and realized there was nothing in it. The driver asked what was supposed to be in it. The man replied, "A Glock."

Ugh, that might have brought on a bunch of feds to investigate everyone.

[wantedabiggergarage]

There are bad apples in every delivery service. I haven't really had any major issues with the post office. I bought one thing, and the tracking showed it arrived at my local post office, and was sent to the dead letter office. I contacted the seller, who I had asked prior about local pickup (he was within three blocks of my sister), and he said no. He called the post office to see if the dead letter office could find it via the tracking number, then refunded me.
I had an priority mail envelope with a wrench in it (should have used a box), and either a machine, or the wrench tore a slot in it. It was in my mailbox empty, and I wrote refused due to damage and contacted the seller. As I only bid within a reasonable range (not getting as much now), I always figured the insurance into my total, as it is just less hassle. Technically, and contractually, the seller is responsible for the item arriving, unharmed, to your door. The tracking number does NOT guarantee delivery, only that a package was sent and received. But they pay quicker, when you have covered their asses on their insurance cost.

Now UPS has been my problem child. Multiple packages delivered without signatures, including a firearm to a former dealer, who was living next to a thief. I have a good amount of UPS stories, as we have a person locally, who has stated their goal was to be the WORST in the union, NATIONALLY, and to a reporter.

[Skyline]

I used to use the flat rare envelopes on a regular basis (with significant reinforcement), and had occasional problems. I use Uline bubble envelopes (1st class package) for small items under 13oz and have never had an issue. I always put packing tape over the envelope seal, and use cardboard to protect sharp ends. Most of our stuff goes Priority in boxes, with extra packing tape, and plenty of internal packing to keep things from moving around. It's been about 400 eBay sales since the last issue, so I think with the above suggestions you cut the odds of loss a lot.

[rodm1]

Used to work at UPS, worst thing I heard of is when one of our drivers delivered to a guy and the guy took the package, thought it felt light, shook it, and realized there was nothing in it. The driver asked what was supposed to be in it. The man replied, "A Glock."

Chicago has a big problem with that! the dum thing is some shippers ship guns in the manufacturers box. I had a Fairlie expensive one shipped with manufacturers name on the label and box. I just shipped one out for warranty work and the F#$&@ label had gun printed on it! I like to see the shippers ship out on Mondays to asher no chance of getting held up over the weekend.

[wrenchr]

I'm in the middle of a Paypal dispute right now. I bought a pair of chrome mags for my Harley, and the wienie hugger of a seller simply taped an address label to each rim and mailed them with NO box or padding, just two chrome rims banging about getting knicked and scratched. The seller doesn't understand why I'm pissed. Moron..............

I do not get why you'd be pissed either:headscrat J/K
That blows man, that is awful:(

[LoneGunman]

Hard items (wrenches) are fine in a flat rate envelope IF you package them properly, I ship up to three or four wrenches in a flat rate envelope. I stole Rickster's wrench packaging method, tie wrap the wrenches to a stiff piece of cardboard.

[Rickster]

Yup! I use the $5 flat rate mailers for ratchets and wrenches. But I tie wrap them all in place onto some cardboard to keep them from shifting around and reinforce any place they might break through. I also try to reinforce the mailer with some packing tape but my local post offices are pretty strict aboiut just how much I can get away with. They've called me out on that several times in the past. Some of the stuff I buy off ebay amazes me it even arrived! I had a package arrive once with the entire ratchet handle hanging out of the package.

[Eddie Hudson]

If you want to use a USPS Flat Rate Envelope, first put your tools inside a USPS Tyvek envelope. Put the buyers address and your return address on it and then place it inside the flat rate envelope. Tape up all four edges and tape the length and width (a cross pattern in the middle). The Tyvek does not break open during shipping even if the outside envelope gets damaged. Works every time:)

[Skyline]

Hard items (wrenches) are fine in a flat rate envelope IF you package them properly, I ship up to three or four wrenches in a flat rate envelope. I stole Rickster's wrench packaging method, tie wrap the wrenches to a stiff piece of cardboard.
The problem with the flat rate envelopes is that mid last year they changed the cardboard to much thinner stuff. It now tears very easily.

[Identaltech]

use ups only with insurance, forget the us mail
ups will get it there faster and if lost you have the insurance

[SocketDeviler]

This week I gave a box to our UPS driver so that he could ship a small game system back for repair. When I saw him the next day he thanked me again, saying the box was the perfect size, even showed me the package. The box was wrapped in tape like a mummy. I didn't have to ask why.

Years ago, I worked for UPS for a few months unloading trucks. When I first got there a bunch of people were busted for stealing. They were unloading in the parking lot and filing their cars. Theft aside I'm amazed any of us get our packages in working condition. It's a madhouse in there. We would open the truck doors and have to get out of the way fast as the front boxes would come tumbling down. And they stack as high as they can. The only way to get at the higher boxes deeper in the truck is to pull one out from a lower spot and let the top rows fall. This is part of why they push styrofoam when shipping electronics.

[LoneGunman]

The problem with the flat rate envelopes is that mid last year they changed the cardboard to much thinner stuff. It now tears very easily.
I thought I was imagining things, I had a whole bunch of older flat rate envelopes, I finally ran out, when I received the new ones I ordered I thought they were much thinner.

[Rigmaster]

use ups only with insurance, forget the us mail
ups will get it there faster and if lost you have the insurance

This is all well and good, but the price is at least twice what it is for USPS priority mail, at least for packages weighing 3-4 pounds or less. UPS and Fedex both charge a residential surcharge of ~$2-3 per package.


But, UPS and Fedex both say that any package is automatically insured for up to $100 without any additional insurance charge, whereas USPS has -0- coverage unless you pay the extra $$$.

[cruiser808]

Yup! I use the $5 flat rate mailers for ratchets and wrenches. But I tie wrap them all in place onto some cardboard to keep them from shifting around and reinforce any place they might break through. I also try to reinforce the mailer with some packing tape but my local post offices are pretty strict aboiut just how much I can get away with. They've called me out on that several times in the past. Some of the stuff I buy off ebay amazes me it even arrived! I had a package arrive once with the entire ratchet handle hanging out of the package.

Rick, when it comes to shipping, you are God. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[jerk_chicken]

I finally found the pics of how my gearwrenches were delivered from a fleabay dealer who now has a suspended account.

Lucky my mailguy is really good with my dad.

[SocketDeviler]

I finally found the pics of how my gearwrenches were delivered from a fleabay dealer who now has a suspended account.

Lucky my mailguy is really good with my dad.


I can't stress enough, sellers need to use more tape. Get to the dollar store if need be. At least you have your Voivod, Artillery and Metal Church CDs. :thumbup:

[jerk_chicken]

Testament, Coroner, and Cathedral somewhere there, too ;)

[posaune]

And yes, I'm amazed that people will use envelopes and large envelope bags to send hard items.

One of the first tools I got from ebay was a Proto combination wrench set. It was the big one (that goes from 1/4" to 1 1/4"). This particular set didn't come in the roll so what did the seller do? SHE wrapped them in plastic wrap- like sandwich wrap/Saran wrap/whatever and stuck them in a regular manilla envelope with only the closure taped! :shocking: Even better, there were three different sets of wrapping so the big wrenches could make a hole and the little ones could easily fall out.

Somehow they all got to me, but when I pulled the package out of the mailbox, the small wrenches fell on the ground. I felt very lucky that day...