#*$@ Wiha USA!!

[nissan_crawler]

As I'm sure you know, I got hex bit sockets from them...

Here's the catalog page: http://www.wihatools.com/700seri/771Sockets.htm

Notice on the 6" hex bit set, they do NOT show the 7/32" or 1/4" hex sockets as being included, and also call it a 6 piece set?

It's NOT. It's an 8 piece set, WITH the 7/32" and 1/4" sockets included. Their paper catalog that came with the order also shows this.

I ordered the 7/32" and 1/4" separately, since their site shows them not included.

Of course, the set came with them, so I wanted to return the two. They gave me a shipping authorization, but WILL NOT PAY RETURN SHIPPING FOR THEIR MISTAKE!! :mad::mad::mad:

Like I'm paying to ship $13 of bit sockets back.

Screw you guys, you just lost a customer for good, hope that was worth your freaking shipping. Oh, a hangar full of 500 mechanics has now read the signs stating how good your service is, hope it was worth it. 5 people wanted a set as soon as they saw them, I'll be telling them not to bother. :soapbox:

If this was in person, I would ship those sockets somewhere it would take a long time to find.:tantrum2:

[jerk_chicken]

WHen I have experiences with dealers that won't pay for shipping back UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, even due to their mistake, and then hide behind their policy, I simply have the cc reverse the charges, and let the dealer worry about collecting. I actually tell them so that if they want to collect the items for return, then it's their responsibility, and I've so far never had a dealer contact me to collect.

Did they tell you that they would pay you on the back end, or just not at all?

[jerk_chicken]

Looks like they'll hide behind this:

d. Customers returning products are responsible for all return freight charges.

[Stuey]

Did they tell you that over the phone?

[swgray]

Well, according to my 2007 catalog (pg 207) the 7/32" and 1/4" aren't even listed, much less included in the set. Since there was no price increase, if you paid $40.44 for the set, maybe those two sizes were free extras. They don't seem to have price breaks on their sets.

Seems to me, you probably got $13.48 worth of bits at no charge. That's a better return than your 401K is probably doing. (I've switched mine to the MD State Lottery and I'm doing a lot better now.)

Try to look at the bright side, now you've got spares to trade.

[Mike83]

Well, according to my 2007 catalog (pg 207) the 7/32" and 1/4" aren't even listed, much less included in the set. Since there was no price increase, if you paid $40.44 for the set, maybe those two sizes were free extras. They don't seem to have price breaks on their sets.

Seems to me, you probably got $13.48 worth of bits at no charge. That's a better return than your 401K is probably doing. (I've switched mine to the MD State Lottery and I'm doing a lot better now.)

Try to look at the bright side, now you've got spares to trade.

I think he ordered the bits as fillers because the description did not show them. In reality the set did include the bits he ordered and now he has two of each.

[nissan_crawler]

I think he ordered the bits as fillers because the description did not show them. In reality the set did include the bits he ordered and now he has two of each.

Exactly, the website says 6, the catalog says 8. That should not be my problem that they can't fix their website.

No, I didn't talk to them on the phone, I dealt with the rep via email. If they don't want to pay a few dollars to fix their mistake, fine. I'm not wasting my time, but I will let everybody know how they screw you.

[swgray]

I think he ordered the bits as fillers because the description did not show them. In reality the set did include the bits he ordered and now he has two of each.


I know. My point is that 2 bits weren't paid for if all he paid for the set was $40.44. So how was he hurt?

[bchee]

How much is it to ship those 2 back?
I would spend $2-3 to get $13 back. I understand it's probably not about the money, but the principle.

[nissan_crawler]

Well, according to my 2007 catalog (pg 207) the 7/32" and 1/4" aren't even listed, much less included in the set. Since there was no price increase, if you paid $40.44 for the set, maybe those two sizes were free extras. They don't seem to have price breaks on their sets.

Seems to me, you probably got $13.48 worth of bits at no charge. That's a better return than your 401K is probably doing. (I've switched mine to the MD State Lottery and I'm doing a lot better now.)

Try to look at the bright side, now you've got spares to trade.

According to the 2008 catalog I got, they ARE included in the set. So no, I did NOT get freebies. I paid $13.48 for two items that were not shown as included in my set, but were.

Yeah, I have $13.48 of bits...that are absolutely worthless to me, as I already have them in the set!

[voidifused]

nissan_crawler, BREATH its ok...well not really but do it anyways :lol_hitti
Did you make sure to link them to this thread?

I see you're point and its not like its a small mess up or anything its a clear mess up on there product listing. If it was me, i wouldn't even ask you to ship them back, i would say keep them and credit you at least.

[Mike F]

To me, your argument seems penny wise and pound foolish on Wiha's part.

[nissan_crawler]

I know. My point is that 2 bits weren't paid for if all he paid for the set was $40.44. So how was he hurt?

The set was $40.44, BUT IT INCLUDES THOSE TWO BITS! I did pay for them, as I paid $40.44 for the set, and the set includes 8 bits. What part of this is hard for you to understand? What the set cost and included 2 years ago doesn't mean jack, quit going by that.

How much is it to ship those 2 back?
I would spend $2-3 to get $13 back. I understand it's probably not about the money, but the principle.

I'm sure it's more than that to ship them back in their packages. it would probably cost me $5-6 to send the things back, not worth it. You're right, it's not the money, it's the principle of it, and how petty they're being about THEIR mistake.

nissan_crawler, BREATH its ok...well not really but do it anyways :lol_hitti
Did you make sure to link them to this thread?

I see you're point and its not like its a small mess up or anything its a clear mess up on there product listing. If it was me, i wouldn't even ask you to ship them back, i would say keep them and credit you at least.

I haven't sent them a link, but should. I would have thought they would have said as you did, and told me to keep them, or sent a shipping label for me to return them, and thanked me so they could fix their website. Nope, they leave the website wrong and tell me to pay for their mistake:confused:

If they did what you suggested, they would have a very positive thread about their customer service on here. Mistakes happen, I know it, I make them too. I've always said, the fact that a company makes a mistake isn't what matters, because mistakes will always happen. What matters is how they handle that mistake.

Case in point, they screwed me over for $5 or so of shipping if I was to pay it. Due to this, they lost all future sales.

I had a company screw up a $4500 custom build/order of mine. However, they called me, told me it had happened, and as it wouldn't affect operation, they would send it if I absolutely needed it, and give me a discount, but they preferred if I gave them the time to build a new one right. Truth be told, I would have never known the screw up if they didn't admit it. I was in no hurry, so I told them to go ahead. They upgraded two parts of the build for no charge, knocked off $500, and offered a 15% discount on the next thing I ordered. i ended up with a much better product, and spent less money.

Yes, they screwed up a $4500 order. But, they admitted it, and made it right. Their ethics earned them my business again, which will be another $3500. I recommend them to anybody wanting an axle built.

Funny how I'll still use a company that screws up a $4500 order, but not use one that screws up $5 of shipping, huh?

[FNFS2000]

They have got no business dealing direct with the public anyways. They are stabbing their distributor network in the back.

[Underdog]

They have got no business dealing direct with the public anyways. They are stabbing their distributor network in the back.

Well then their sure is allot of Snap-On guy's getting it in the back, must feel like Custer.:lol_hitti

[FNFS2000]

They've really changed for the worse the last few years, their image as well as their products. WERA, PB, Witte, and others have really surpassed them in most peoples percieved image. I think they really need someone else making decisions for them here in the USA. A german takeover would probably be great for them. Possibly the only thing to keep/restore their image. It would not surprise me in the least to see WIHA in big box stores in the future. It may increase sales, but to a new market. All the people that used to think of them as good stuff will migrate faster to WERA, PB, FELO as they already are.

[nissan_crawler]

THe bad part is, nobody else makes what I need, otherwise I wouldbe tempted to return all of it.

[jerk_chicken]

They've really changed for the worse the last few years, their image as well as their products. WERA, PB, Witte, and others have really surpassed them in most peoples percieved image. I think they really need someone else making decisions for them here in the USA. A german takeover would probably be great for them. Possibly the only thing to keep/restore their image. It would not surprise me in the least to see WIHA in big box stores in the future. It may increase sales, but to a new market. All the people that used to think of them as good stuff will migrate faster to WERA, PB, FELO as they already are.

That will never happen. As has been stated before, Germany is fast moving towards what happened in the US. The unfortunate thing is people don't fight big box stores opening everywhere, and they accept and don't have a problem with where stuff is made. This is why most of the auto industry isn't based here anymore. It's based in countries like CZ, Slovakia, Bulgaria, South Africa, among others. If you're lucky, they will bring the stuff back here for final assembly.

At least in the US, there's a sizeable population that demands the best, or will support US-based businesses, despite the increasing competition from vendors widening profits by subcontracting overseas. Local hardware stores still exist in the US, but are non-existent here, for example. Germany is fast moving towards everything being a big corporate chain, and it's accepted. Keep doing what you're doing over there; supporting local businesses. The problem is once the money goes into a corporation, the profits are not redistributed into the economy like they would through a private business.

Yes, it would not surprise me if they go in big box stores eventually. Wiha's stuff is already in big boxes here, although there are no mechanic's tools here. That might not say much, since Knipex and Wera are in big boxes, but the issue is they are moving towards it.

PS- isn't Wiha imported by Bondhus?

[Vinko]

But the Knipex stuff in Big Boxes is still top of the line, isn't it? Or do they have another line for those sorts of stores? Or is it that Knipex is pretty inexpensive in Germany?

I went through the Knipex catalog from 2007 and there's so much damn stuff I want. Also that pair of pliers that Zuspiel reviewed. With the smooth jaws. I need that.

[Stuey]

I say give them a second chance - call them up. If they still play games with you then, you will still have plenty of time to continue your tirade.

Don't make threats, and maybe you should keep this thread to yourself for now.

[jerk_chicken]

But the Knipex stuff in Big Boxes is still top of the line, isn't it? Or do they have another line for those sorts of stores? Or is it that Knipex is pretty inexpensive in Germany?

I went through the Knipex catalog from 2007 and there's so much damn stuff I want. Also that pair of pliers that Zuspiel reviewed. With the smooth jaws. I need that.

KNipex in the Big Box is the same as their catalog line to professionals.

The prices are better than the US, by far. The note about that is their base price is a bit high, simply because they are somewhat more expensive products to begin with. From the prices I've seen, they are somewhere around the price of domestic US stuff one can buy from HD or whatever. Somewhat comparable to Channelock, give a few bucks.

However, the cheaper higher end tools doesn't negate wanting to come back to the US. This wiha thing about them being a simply licensed name is disappointing. Then they charge the prices you would expect for German stuff.

At least their combo wrenches are actual nice Heycos, but still expensive.

[Monte]

Knipex is the top of the line brand here. The "Big Box" stores usually don`t offer knipex, there is actually only one which i know of ("Bauhaus") since for many people they are too expensive. The "Bauhaus" store offers also Wera srewdrivers and Matador wrenches + sockets, along with imports so there is a tool for every budget. They have their own brand of tools and sell pliers under their name "Wisent" .They are now from ROC or PRC can`t remember, . A couple of years ago they were supplied bei "Harry P. Will" plier company. Last time i was there someone complain about the Wera price for a screwdriver: "Damn 5 bucks just for one screwdriver" while the salesman informed a customer about the wera bits ( for 19,95 / 10 piece or so) but after the salesman left the customer put the wera bits back and took the other 19,95 bit-set but with 40 bits or so (PRC or ROC made ) .......

For rebranding/rebadging Knipex has their subsidiaries "Orbis" "www.orbis-werk.de/" and "harry p. will" www.harry-p-will.de/ (http://www.harry-p-will.de/) so lower priced stuff is made by these companies while "Knipex is always knipex" and thats what i would buy.
There are also some other companies around which also make good products like Gedore pliers (forged in germany/ finished in Austria), or NWS pliers or VBW who makes all the pliers for the Stahlwille group (Stahlwille, VBW, Alarm, RJ) so they can`t be bad too (+ they are cheaper than knipex)

PS: I don`t think eastern germany has a long tradition with "mom + pop" tool stores etc. since before 1989 AFAIK they only had 1 tool company ("Smalcalda") who made electric and hand tools since everything was planned and controlled by the government. So they had 1 company who made this product and 1 who made another etc. etc.
And when you imagine that they had to wait sometimes 15 years before they could buy a car so i dont think many ppl had tools over there because everything was in short supply

ps: @ jerk: if you ever come to the city of hamburg make sure you visit "Lüdemann"
www.luedemann-werkzeuge.de
its a small business around here since 1897, they have eveything .... a wall full of Hazet, knipex, Kukko,wiha etc...
http://www.luedemann-werkzeuge.de/image/werkzeug2.jpg
:-)

[Mike F]

There is a very successful dairy store/market in the NY, CT area called Stew Leonards. They truly understand the importance of customer service. I cut and pasted this excerpt from their web site....

The success of this family-owned business and their legion of loyal shoppers is largely due to their passionate approach to customer service: "Rule #1 -- The Customer is Always Right"; Rule #2 - If the Customer is Ever Wrong, Re-Read Rule #1." This principle is so essential to the foundation of the company that it is etched in a three-ton granite rock (click here to learn about the history of "Our Policy") at each store's entrance.

Now that is a company that stands behind what they sell. I am in the market for some Torx socket bits and was considering Wiha since I recently purchased a screwdriver set from them and am satisfied so far. But if this is what I will run into if I have a problem with something then maybe I should look elsewhere. I personally hope someone from Wiha reads this post. Maybe then they will understand that word of mouth is an important sales tool and that they, as a company, can either benefit from, or get hurt by their actions.

[werktools]

We issue the full credit including the shipping when the tools are actually returned. We stopped giving out our UPS account number after some of our wonderful customers decided to use it for some personal shipping activity.

[nissan_crawler]

I was never told that. I was told that I had to pay shipping, even after I asked why. There was no mention of reimbursement.