Hot off the truck: SO RAF80 thin profile ratchet (and MAC extra-short sockets)

[zuspiel]

Don't have a whole lot of time but quickly wanted to post the pics...

I picked up my RAF80 this morning. First impressions: handle feels like a wrench beam. Same size as 16mm but the corners are slightly less rounded. Ratcheting action feels like the other Dual80s. Gear is held in by a (plastic?) ring. Haven't taken it apart, yet. Different reverse lever. Drive is shorter and retaining ball is smaller. That leads to some wiggle with regular drive sockets (see last three pics). Other than that, it's a nice ratchet. I can't compare the thickness with a CMan pro since I gave mine to my father in law... The shorter drive nub would make me weary of buying the SO extra short sockets since they might not seat fully on regular ratchets.

I've had the MAC sockets for a while and like them. They also work well on really thin nuts since they don't have the usual bevel (see pics). These sockets will fully seat on a regular ratchet. BTW, the two socket sizes in the pics are 3/8 and 11/16. I have the metric MACs but no SOs to compare them to...

If anybody gets the SO set with the sockets, could you please check their fit on a normal ratchet and maybe measure one or two to compare the length with the MACs? Thanks!


http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-1.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-2.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-3.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-4.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-5.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-6.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-7.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-8.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-9.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-10.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-11.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-12.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-13.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-14.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-15.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-16.JPG

[Weedwaka]

Those MAC short sockets look great !!

[billymade]

Thanks for the pics; definitely, a unique ratchet! Would like a "autopsy"; when you get a chance! :)

[Zeroek]

Man those Mac sockets and that ratchet looking like a good combo. Here were I live we haven't had a mac dealer in a while. I'm interested in this combo now.

[ImportTuner]

Nice looking ratchet .. thanks for the pictures :)

[2barevo]

how much was the raf80 ratchet?

[zuspiel]

You're welcome.

Billy, I'll probably autopsy it this weekend. I'm curious plus it needs some RLL. Have to figure out how to open that sucker, though. I hope those two black thingies on the bottom are tips of a snap ring...

Man those Mac sockets and that ratchet looking like a good combo. Here were I live we haven't had a mac dealer in a while. I'm interested in this combo now.

SO also has a set with 9 metric extra short sockets: 210RAFM $188. No clue if the sockets work on regular ratchets, though.

The MAC chrome is something. I only have these sockets and a set XL KS2 wrenches. Very, very pretty and they work well, too :D

how much was the raf80 ratchet?

The ratchet by itself is $69.

[riley.m]

that looks just like the williams or blue point ratchets,with the sex handles.the inside of the head does at least,i wonder if the guts are similar.

[zuspiel]

The guts are supposed to be Dual80 and it feels that way. Once I crack it open, we'll know more... :)

[Danglerb]

I wonder how the height compares to a GearWrench Vortex pass thru socket?

[bchee]

I thought people were saying in the other thread that the drive was NOT shorter. Evidently it is.

[zuspiel]

Well, that was me who guessed it wasn't shorter, based on the pics of the sockets (compared to the MAC sockets). Now we know better... Seems strong enough compared to the length of the ratchet, though.

Danglerb, yeah, I'd be interested in that, as well (and the thickness of the CMan slim pro). Anybody have the GW vortex stuff, a CMan slim ratchet, or the SO XS sockets? Please post some measurements. :bowdown:

[bchee]

LOOK AT MY THREAD FROM 10/2008
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23182

SNAP ON OWES ME SOME MONEY!

[MAD]

You can get Proto branded super short sockets as well. I would expect them to be exactly the same as the MAC ones. The 10mm - 19m 3/8" drive set is under $65 from MSC.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000090603944

[-B-]

Those sockets look great I have been know to resort to grinding off the bevel to get a better fit / grip. I have to get some of those in my needed sizes 14, 15, 16 .

[zuspiel]

You can get Proto branded super short sockets as well. I would expect them to be exactly the same as the MAC ones. The 10mm - 19m 3/8" drive set is under $65 from MSC.

Thanks for the tip. Didn't know Proto had some, too. I'd wait for the next 30% off hand tools deal, though. BTW, your link doesn't work for me.

[zuspiel]

LOOK AT MY THREAD FROM 10/2008
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23182

SNAP ON OWES ME SOME MONEY!

Yeah, looks like they copied your idea.

Sad thing is any patent lawyer would point out that you didn't have a solution for the retaining ball problem and SO, in their infinite wisdom, came up with one: make the ball smaller... :lol_hitti

[forceyoda]

Link did not work for me either but I was able to find them and bought a set. I was about to pay $120 (w shipping and tax) for the MAC set before I saw MAD's post. I'll post some pics to see how they compare to the MAC.

[G1K]

Is it just me or does the thin profile ratchet look foreign made?

R

[bowtie3]

Is it just me or does the thin profile ratchet look foreign made?

R

I thought the same thing.

[DynoDale]

It looks a lot like the ratcheting end of their SOEXR wrenches because of the reversing lever and profile.

What make it look foreign made? Do wrenches made in other countries look that much different and I can't see it? Or did they copy a foreign design?

I have worked with a few people who thought that they could see quality. If something was well machined and finished nicely, it must be dimensionally correct also. This is often not true.

[Monte]

Is it just me or does the thin profile ratchet look foreign made?

R

Couldn`t find any "USA" marking...?
and look at the dull chrome around the square drive ...?

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-6.JPG

[G1K]

What make it look foreign made? Do wrenches made in other countries look that much different and I can't see it? Or did they copy a foreign design?



I guess it looks similar to some of the forwign made shapes than the traditional SO shape.


I'm not implying it's not a good ratchet, just looks different that's all. Almost like a GW ratchet, or Kobalt. Maybe it's the selector lever.

R

[zuspiel]

Actually, none of my Dual80s say "USA" on them...

About the handle: I wonder why they didn't put "Snap-on" on there, like on the wrenches. Looks pretty bare which I think is part of the "foreign made" impression.

Monte: I noticed the chrome in the pic, too. Didn't notice it when playing with the ratchet. I've definitely seen worse but I agree, should be mirror smooth... I think I can live with it, though :)

Got home from work and performed an "autopsy" to RLL it. It's a Dual80, alright... And all parts are metal, as they should be. The design is quite neat. The snap ring doesn't have much tension. I used tweezers to get it off. It's in a goove of the more substantial ring. Assembly was straightforward. I thought I'd have issues with getting the reversing lever on, but you just hold it down, wiggle a bit, and the pawls slip in place.

Here's the pics (the magnet is not part of the ratchet :D ):


http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-1.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-2.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-3.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-4.JPG

[Merkava_4]

I'm not so sure what to think about that ratchet right now; it seams so UNtraditional - half wrench, half ratchet. :confused:

[35mastr]

Zuspiel,That ratchet is a little different.Like Merkava said,"half wrench and half ratchet".

That would take a little time to grow on me too.

I am glad that you are enjoing the Mac sockets.

I still have a few sets left for those interested.

[Vulturej]

I saw it on the SO truck yesterday. Neat ratchet, but I have the ratcheting wrench adapters and with the stubby ratcheting wrenches would be more of a low profile package. So I bought another SO FLF80. :)

[billymade]

One thing that is definitely different from "normal" Snap-On ratchets; is the use of a ring to hold it together.... I wonder if they did this because it is so thin? All my Snap-On ratchets are held together by screws.... I wonder why the change? Looks like a nice and unique ratchet, none the less! :)

[Merkava_4]

One thing that is definitely different from "normal" Snap-On ratchets; is the use of a ring to hold it together....

That's what first led me to think it wasn't made by Snap-on; but now that I think about it, it makes sense because that might be the only way of having retention with such a thin head. :dunno:

[myslow2002gt]

I think that is pretty cool, however I just do not see any practical use for it. Like others have said, a stubby ratcheting wrench would work just as well, if not better in tight quarters.

Maybe I'm just not in tight spaces as much as others, as I get by with what I have very easily.

[bchee]

Thanks for the sweet picts. Now I want to check my pawls to see if there is any stamping on them. I don't believe so.
Can you interchange either the gear or pawl into a standard dual 80? (I know the drive part is shorter, but what about the gear part where the teeth are?)



http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-3.JPG

[zuspiel]

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I saw a stamping on the pawls of my Dual80s, either...

I'll have a look at the gears tomorrow. Might be different, though, because of the retaining ring.

Another design difference that occurred to me: Since there is no cover plate, the gear is only held in the center by the outer ring. Seems to work ok, though.

[Fedwrench]

Has anyone read of any torque restrictions on this new ratchet or is it supposed to be as strong as the full size F80 series?

[sk farmer]

can't we see one with some love lube?

[zuspiel]

I am glad that you are enjoing the Mac sockets.

Yep, they are :thumbup:

Now I want to check my pawls to see if there is any stamping on them. I don't believe so.
Can you interchange either the gear or pawl into a standard dual 80? (I know the drive part is shorter, but what about the gear part where the teeth are?)

Just remembered that my replacement FX80 needed RLL and opened both it and the RAF80. The FX80 pawls don't have any stamping. I didn't compare the size since I didn't want to fiddle the pawls out of the RAF80.

The main reason I ran to the garage to check was the possibility of changing out the gear. Alas, that's a no-go. The back side of the RAF80 gear is completely flat, flush with the teeth. The FX80 gear has a 1-1.5mm bevel. Sadly, I don't have a belt sander... If you do (and you're still around here) I'd gladly order a F80 gear to try it out... :D

Has anyone read of any torque restrictions on this new ratchet or is it supposed to be as strong as the full size F80 series?

In the RAF80 rumour thread, somebody mentioned that it's not as strong. Since the gear isn't held by a thick plate, I would guess so, too.

can't we see one with some love lube?

It has RLL in it but I didn't take any pics before closing it back up :)

[riley.m]

the retaining ring set up is the same as my williams.since snap on owns them now it makes sense to use the design.i really like my williams ratchet,even though its foreign made.

[bchee]

I can't believe I just realized there is no cover plate. That's weird.
Anyhow, I don't see how it contributes to the strength of the ratchet.

[DynoDale]

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-1.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-2.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-3.JPG

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/277768/Tools/Snapon/RAF80-Disassembly-4.JPG


This all looks familiar. I took apart a Blue Point 18mm because the snap ring and head shape look the same. The internals look the same too. The screw that holds the lever on is different, but the Snap-on ratcheting wrenches use the screw like the ratchet has. It's not apparent to me how to get the ratcheting part out of those wrenches. I suspect that it has a ring, but there's no access.

[zuspiel]

Now we know where the design came from...
Thanks a lot for the dissection!
You seem to have had no problems taking it apart, though... :D

[DynoDale]

The one I can't take apart is SOEXR##, the one pictured is BOERM18. The snap ring is not visible on the SOEXR wrenches.

[forceyoda]

So is the RAF80 made in tawain like the blue point wrenches??? Or maybe just the pawl and drive is made overseas?

[zuspiel]

I'm wondering about that myself... I guess we'll have to wait for the SO web site to update to find out for sure. None of my Dual80s say USA on the ratchet but the web site states that they're made in the US...

[bchee]

This all looks familiar. I took apart a Blue Point 18mm because the snap ring and head shape look the same. The internals look the same too. The screw that holds the lever on is different, but the Snap-on ratcheting wrenches use the screw like the ratchet has. It's not apparent to me how to get the ratcheting part out of those wrenches. I suspect that it has a ring, but there's no access.

Man, this board is awesome. Thanks for the picts you guys.

I remember reading that the blue point wrenches were dual pawl, so I guess they really are.

I would like to know if there is a way to decipher those pawl numbers.

[zuspiel]

Since the 18mm wrench has 18A/Bx and the ratchet has 16A/B, my guess for the first number is the metric size. The ratchet seems to be based on a 16mm wrench.

[bowtie3]

I think we might getting a lot closer to answering the lingering questions about the f80's internal component's country of origin. I think some of the guys will not be very happy.
:( The similarities are just too much to ignore.

[DynoDale]

Since the 18mm wrench has 18A/Bx and the ratchet has 16A/B, my guess for the first number is the metric size. The ratchet seems to be based on a 16mm wrench.

I think you're on to something. I took apart a few more wrenches to look at the numbers on the pawls: 16mm, 5/8" have 16 on them, 17mm, 11/16" have 17 on them.

[zuspiel]

Thanks, DD!

Bingo! So there we go and we also know where the pawls of the RAF80 come from. If that's also the case for the other Dual80s, Merk will have the perfect excuse to never get one... :D

[bchee]

I remember someone said the guts were from Japan, not Taiwan.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=287080&postcount=25

[bowtie3]

It was me that said the parts were made in japan. That info came from a manager (friend) in the TN forging plant. I think now that he couldn't look me in the straight in the eye and tell me they were made in the USA (knowing it was a lie), but I suspect that it was a lot easier to say Japan instead of Taiwan. After seeing these photos I have no doubt where they come from. I still have mine and I still love them but.... this blows chunks. When an item omits the USA stamp there is a reason its omitted, its not just marketing hype or whatever, its not there because it can't legally be there.

[J.A.F.E.]

Is it just me or does the thin profile ratchet look foreign made?

R

I saw one on the truck in a set with (metric) sockets. The package was marked as made in USA. That of course can mean many things but the dealer said the bodies are forged here (USA).