View Full Version : My “Class Act” Trailer's Structural Integrity Failure


Pages : [1] 2 3

OldCarGuy
05-27-2009, 03:33 PM
As you cannot judge a book by its' cover. You sure cannot judge the structural integrity of a trailer by the way it looks. Or by the way the manufacture claims their trailer have superior durability through design and use of materials. After owning four car hauler trailers in my life plus all the research I put into my decision,, I made a major blunder purchasing a “Class Act” Trailer. http://www.classacttrailers.com/ I was willing to pay an extra 20% in cost for the smooth siding that eliminates the rivets. Plus their light-weight rear ramp door that's designed with counter-balancing springs integrated into the hinges. Eliminating the dreaded overhead garage-door style spring and two side cables.

I ordered the trailer through JTI Sales less than two years ago,, http://www.jti-inc.com/ . And took several months going over the specifications and my requirements before placing an order. In particular the type and weight of the cars that I would be hauling. And consequently driving over the rear ramp door. In turn the manufacturer assured JTI that the door would be just fine. After all the trailer's payload is 7,000 pounds, wouldn't you think that the door would have to at least handle that weight? No way else it could get inside! I have driven thousands of cars on and off my Haulmark Car haulers http://www.haulmark.com/ without any problems. For sure “Class Act” could build a product of equal or better quality.

Early on after delivery I voiced my concern to JTI about how the door would bend when I drive my 4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac in. Lest my 6,000 pound 1930 Packard. I was assured that was not a concern. The “Class Act” people designed the most durable car hauler ever produced... The flex was normal and would straighten out. A week ago I loaded a 6,000 pound car into the trailer that proved to be more than their ramp door could handle. That permanently left a 2” bow in the ramp door. And I can no longer close the door.

I immediately called JTI. Who in turn contacted “Class Act”, who asked that I talk directly with them. Guess what? I'm in the middle of another major debate. And looks as if Class Act will not stand behind their structural warranty. Basically they're saying, “Even though they call their Trailers “Car Haulers”. Their ramp doors aren't meant to drive cars over. As they only have a 2,500 pound capacity. I was never told that! If they would have informed me that, I would have saved $3,000.00 and purchased a proven Solid and time-tested Haulmark!

Thread about my mobile toy chest. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10244

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF1264.jpg

Class Act Warranty...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/ClassAct_Warranty.jpg

Factory picture what not to do on other brand trailers. Just don't put those guys on the rear ramp door! :lol_hitti

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/ClassAct_standing_on_roof.jpg

View of bow..

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3653.jpg

Permanent crease..

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3654.jpg

Side view of 2” bow to ramp door

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3674.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3660.jpg

Door fractures from blocking midway on the door so that I could unload the car.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3664.jpg

Class Act claims that they put a 2,500 pound capacity label on the door. This is the only label on the door..

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3679.jpg

ket-tek
05-27-2009, 04:06 PM
Sorry to see the happen, I wouldn't let down to easy. Continue to call them weekly (very politely) until they do something for you. Persistance usually pays off.

After you get a new 2500# gate out of them, sell the trailer and buy something else.

It's too bad because that is one nice looking trailer.

My friend has had a enclosed haulmark for over 10 years and it's been all over the country, and it still is straight and solid. Just a little dirty, and been through a few tires.

lawfarm
05-27-2009, 04:14 PM
OCG,

I'm reasonably certain that, at the end of the day, the issues you describe will be resolved. Class Act will come to their senses and, like other manufacturers who are excoriated on this site. (If they don't come to their senses, they'll doubtless lose many, many sales).

I'm not being critical of you in any way--but I do have a question/observation: if you're driving a 4,000# car into the trailer, unless that car has a REALLY short wheelbase, it appears as though you'd only have 1 axle on the door at a time--right? So we're not talking about 4,000 on the door...we're likely talking about something much less (and likely within the alleged, but unmarked, 2,500# rating). Even a 6,000# car--you're probably talking about 3-3500# at a time (assuming it is nose heavy), which, while it would exceed a 2,500# rating (again, assuming that the door was rated, you had been informed, it was properly marked, etc.), which one might expect to be within the actual working limits for a door designed to carry 2,500#. So I'm very, very surprised that it failed at such a low weight (not to mention surprised that they're trying to now avoid their clear warranty obligations).

Just an observation. Keep us posted on their response, and as always, keep up the great documentation.

Ramblur
05-27-2009, 05:56 PM
WOW!:shocking: I'd be pissed too. My US Cargo is almost 15 yrs. old
(and looks it). These days I can hear the plywood protesting heavier
cars being pulled up the ramp but in all these years that door is dead straight
when I close it up. I'm sorry that they're trying to screw you over but if
that door couldn't handle at least 1.5 X (the design load) without failure
then I'd call their 2500 lb rating bogus too. FWIW, I think your selling
dealer should be going to bat for you too.

akdiesel
05-27-2009, 06:09 PM
That has got to be frustrating. Not only do have to deal with legal issues, but now you also have a product that you can not useqhat was intended for untill it is fixxed.
Good luck in the pursue to get them to correct the problem.

Brad54
05-27-2009, 06:16 PM
How close are you to the place you bought it? I realize it's not the dealer's problem, but I bet if you had the side of that trailer wrapped with the words "Don't Buy a Class Act Trailer--Their Doors Are Weak And They Won't Stand Behind Their Warranty" and then park it across the street on a Saturday morning, you'll get some response.

I'd have a vinyl lettering guy do up those words, put them on the trailer, and take pictures of the trailer and send it to the company, along with a list of websites you will be publishing it on. (Here, HAMB, YellowBullet, etc. etc. etc. ), and a list of events you will be attending with it.

-Brad

1320stang
05-27-2009, 06:19 PM
Have a lawyer send them a letter I think.

They ought to give you a full refund, plus $2000 for your cabinets and whatever receipts you have for your improvements.

bazar01
05-27-2009, 06:31 PM
Most designs have a minimum of 1.5 and some even use a factor of safety of 3.
So if the ramp door is rated for 2,500 lbs, it should handle at least 3,750 lbs I would think.

Kevin54
05-27-2009, 06:34 PM
Seems like you and trailers are not getting along to well lately. I think my beef would be with JTI seeing that they REASSURED you a few times on your concerns. Get them to fix it then they can hash it out with Class Act. The first clue should be when they say "no problem" or "nothing to worry about". That seems like everyones answer to make an easy sale or a way to get the customer to go away and hopefully won't come back. I'd reaffirm to JTI what they told you about the door not being a concern. If they won't budge, then threaten with a lawyer and link them to a few sites that so that they will see negative responses about their product. A little negativity can go a long way. Hopefully it won't go on as long as the car trailer ordeal.

evil16v
05-27-2009, 06:41 PM
What a POS!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the warning! My old Pace shadow has the standard "cable door" and Loads my 4000 pound Buick without issue. I only paid 3200 for it. It is a 10k Gross (5200# dexter axles). so it is about the same payload as your trailer.

Keep
05-27-2009, 06:43 PM
What is really sad is that this seems to be the new "norm" It is never anyone's fault or problem, it is always someone elses.

I would give the manufacture one more shot then I would contact a Lawyer. I would take a camera and take very detailed pictures of every surface of the trailer. This should/would help cover you on the "There was a warning posted" Of course they will say that you must have removed that warning after the door folded.

I would then ask them exactly where they supposedly put the 2500lb warning. Then get some really good pictures of that area as well.

Next call would be to your local news crew and ask them about their "consumer problem" section all the local stations up here have them "Five on your side" where they take a news crew to the problem vendors shop and ask a bunch of questions about why they are not doing what they are supposed to be. Usually gets a very quick resolution.

walrus
05-27-2009, 06:51 PM
Early on after delivery I voiced my concern to JTI about how the door would bend when I drive my 4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac in. Lest my 6,000 pound 1930 Packard. I was assured that was not a concern.

Seems to me the dealer should step up if they told you it wasn't a concern?

Jack Olsen
05-27-2009, 07:23 PM
Couldn't hurt to forward a link to this thread to both JTI and Class Act. They can see how they're losing credibility and customers.

rinny_tin_tin
05-27-2009, 07:51 PM
Start a "Class Act Sucks" web page

HOTFR8
05-27-2009, 08:19 PM
Seems like you and trailers are not getting along to well lately.

Good luck :thumbup: Dont you just hate it when these things happen :(
I hope it all works out for you OCG. :beer:

global72
05-27-2009, 09:12 PM
That sucks. Sorry your having the troubles.

Thanks for a heads up and good description of the problem with pictures.

IdahoJoe
05-27-2009, 09:13 PM
This kind of information, real facts backed up with pictures and documentation are why online forums are so great.

It gives everyone who reads this thread some concrete information to base their next purchasing decision on.

Thanks for the info! I'm anxious to see if they do anything to back their product.

Iron-Iceberg
05-27-2009, 09:14 PM
Wow OCG you sure have your share of trailer problems. Even thou you seam to do more research than most of us before you buy.
So just how do they say you are supposed to load your car in the car trailer? Sling shot? Catapult? Ridiculous.

LWW
05-27-2009, 09:44 PM
Agreed. It's pretty pointless to have door that can't handle the rated axle weight of the trailer...

I'm looking to replace my BigTex open trailer with an enclosed model and was looking at the ClassAct, but this thread immediately takes them off the table for me.

35mastr
05-27-2009, 10:10 PM
Wow,What good is a 7k trailer with only a 2500 pound door limit. That is the most lame thing I ever heard. I would try contacting them one more time. Then seek legal council. Then I would do as suggested above and send them all the links that you are posting on.

After that. I would have the trailer lettered. load your cars that you normally take to the biggest shows that are in your area. As in Good guy's and park it right in the venue where everyone could see it.

I bet they will fix it real quick when someone from their company sees it.

e-tek
05-27-2009, 10:25 PM
I guess their new tag line can be: You broke it, you own it!!!

fourfeathers
05-27-2009, 10:56 PM
That sucks, but think how easily a person could be hurt or rare car damaged. A door would seem like nothing then.
I would go to the dealer's ass! Why do we pay them, and not go straight to the MFGR?

babzog
05-27-2009, 11:55 PM
I dunno... this kinda is the dealer's issue, at least in part since they "assured" you that what you were experiencing was "normal". You didn't happen to get that in writing did you? I always ask for oddball items such as this to be put into writing... keeps everyone honest and they know that they can't just blow you off by claiming your issue is normal and expected.

Good luck!

kwb
05-28-2009, 12:18 AM
Just looking at it even if that was a very well engineered door as thin as the section is and knowing what I know of other trailer doors I would have a hard time buying that it could support 2500# plus dynamic effects of the bounce you get as you come over the lip.

I would definitely say design flaw to the point of not being fit for purpose that it was sold with one loophole being that while capacity of trailer is enough they may have designed for a lighter race type car (hence the 2500# design load) to be rolled in along with tools/supplies that don't roll in at the same exact time.

A poor design should still have a FS of 1.3 which would yeild the door at 3250# or the designer was a dumbass and designed around UTS and an evenly distributed load.

Steve in SoCal
05-28-2009, 01:54 AM
I would suggest you get a Lawyer to handle it if they balked, I would also contact the FHSA and report the failure, DOT and FHSA oversee the construction of cargo trailers. The feds could fine them and force a recall of their product. It is time to play hard ball with the manufacture when they ignore a gross defect.

Steve

jcs_in_ky
05-28-2009, 02:37 AM
You have to check all of the components of a trailer very carefully before buying. When I was doing research prior to buying a new flatbed trailer last year I looked at several brands. Aall trailers are rated at a certain gross weight but often not all of the components are made to hold the entire rated weight. Just to give one example, several of the trailers I looked at did not come with tires on them that would support the gross weight of the trailer when the max gross weight of the tires was added up. I've seen them do the same with couplers. It's not uncommon for them to sell a 7000 lb. gross weight trailer with a couple only rated at 6000 lbs. From what I've seen over the years trailer manufactuers don't have the best reputation in the world for being completely honest about their products and many of them will go with a lesser part in order to save a few dollars in the manufacturing process.

jtillery
05-28-2009, 09:06 AM
I have never seen a ramp door that was rated anywhere near the carrying capacity of the trailer. I did alot of research on them last year when I was looking for a 6x12 to haul a couple motorcycles. All the manufactures I looked at (Class Act was not one of them) had the door capacity clearly listed in the specifications. I just looked at Class Act's website, and the 2500 pound door capacity is clearly listed there now.

I am local to your area, and I have owned 2-3 trailers sold through JTI, I have never bought one directly from them, so I don't know how reputable they are. It is definitely a possibilty that they did not show you spec sheets with the door capacity and they may have removed the sticker on purpose. Whether it was intentional or not, JTI dropped the ball for you by recommending the wrong trailer for your needs if there was not an underlying structural problem with the trailer.

That being said, I do not think the door should have failed under the load you had on it. Like one of the other posters said, you wouldn't have all the 6000 pound weight of the car on the door at one time. I have only seen a few cars loaded on car trailers with ramp doors, but I did not notice any flexing. Also as others have said the capacities are typically understated, I would expect them to be from Class Act since they advertise how much stronger/better built they are than the competition.

It is very likely their response was a knee jerk reaction, if they sell a decent volume of trailers, they probably have alot of attempts for warranty work when the customer was genuinely overloading the trailer.

Hopefully you can get it resolved without too much trouble. Others have suggested contacting an attorney. I think that would be risky, that may make them more willing to work something out, but it may competely kill any chance for resolution. If it went to court, I think it would be unlikely you would win. They would claim it was overloaded, you would have to prove it wasn't and show the actual structural defect. With the time and money spent it would likely be cheaper to buy a new door. If they truly are a "Class Act" then they will do something to help make it right.

Mmaxed
05-28-2009, 11:02 AM
I looked at the link you posted when you first got the trailer in '07. I could see no weight limit stickers on the door when the trailer was new.

-B-
05-28-2009, 12:54 PM
You may also want to play the interstate fraud card contact your states AG, their state's AG and the federal AG. the more arrow you can sling the better and faster reaction you will get.

Wardster
05-28-2009, 02:33 PM
Tell the dealership and Class Act that you have been advised to get a written denial of your warranty claim.

-Wardster

Ramblur
05-28-2009, 11:01 PM
Tell the dealership and Class Act that you have been advised to get a written denial of your warranty claim.

-Wardster

:bowdown: Way to go Wardster! I REALLY like this idea.

Vicegrip
05-28-2009, 11:13 PM
That sucks. I had an enclosed and used it for a light track car but lugged some sedans from time to time. I moved a Benz once and stacked some lumber under the open door to counter the flex during loading. The beaver tail door did not look like it was going to fail but I did not want it to flex to the point of pulling rivets or de-laminating.

Ironcrow
05-28-2009, 11:30 PM
Even if Class Act Trailer caves completely, what's the best they could do? They only have 2500 lb doors. Put a new door on and tell OCG not to load any car? Class Act Trailer will have to take the trailer back and refund the purchase price.

e-tek
05-28-2009, 11:41 PM
That sucks. I had an enclosed and used it for a light track car but lugged some sedans from time to time. I moved a Benz once and stacked some lumber under the open door to counter the flex during loading. The beaver tail door did not look like it was going to fail but I did not want it to flex to the point of pulling rivets or de-laminating.


Taking precautions such as this would seem common sense to me...but I guess if you pay a decent buck for something you want it to work as advertised! Course on the other hand when I pay a good buck for something I end up babying it so as not to wreck it! :thumbup:

Plombob
05-28-2009, 11:45 PM
Thanks for the info! I won't buy one of those trailers. Good luck to you.

kwb
05-29-2009, 12:00 AM
Even if Class Act Trailer caves completely, what's the best they could do? They only have 2500 lb doors. Put a new door on and tell OCG not to load any car? Class Act Trailer will have to take the trailer back and refund the purchase price.


If the door can be straightened or a replacement fit a couple of 'fins' along the edges that would slip just inside of the jamb as the door closed would add a lot of strength but I would also probably do as suggested with the blocks of the wood for use while loading. Adding Tire Guides out of a channel section about 12" wide of aluminum or formed steel sheet with expanded metal 'traction' attached to the structure would also probably work and not look out of place or too much like a fix.

I would probably also go with the 'for sale' option once it is resolved if not a 100% satisfying fix. I would only consider a replacement door with adequate stiffness as promised during sales pitch as a 100% fix.

therealjakeg
05-29-2009, 12:11 AM
Your a good guy, your the reason I am on this thread, I show everyone your complex. You are a brilliant man and I belive the sales team at JTI will end up footing the bill because they know that you are not someone just off the streets buying this. You definitlty look into what your buying and do you research. Best of luck. I hate situations like this. We all stand behind you.

Wardster
05-29-2009, 08:09 AM
:bowdown: Way to go Wardster! I REALLY like this idea.

It needs to be part of a letter that includes a timeline of events, phone calls, visits to the dealer, etc. This needs to be sent to the manufacturer by certified mail with a copy going to the dealership.

1320stang
05-29-2009, 09:33 AM
Take that car to some scales and scale both the front and rear weights and see if it exceeds the 2500# limit.

OldCarGuy
05-29-2009, 10:25 AM
I want to thank all the members for all your ideas and support. It's totally appreciated. :beer:

Their Website NOW states that the ramp door has a 2,500 pound capacity. But for sure the weight of the cars that would go over the ramp was discussed many times throughout the quoting process. The Class Act remarks about the door capacity that I received through the dealer, stated that only half the total weight of the car would be on the ramp at a time....

I paid Class Act for a number of upgrades and some design changes to accommodate my cars. I originally had it quoted to have the height increased by 18” along with the lengthening the ramp door. The factory said the door couldn't be designed strong enough to carry my cars without going to an overhead spring counterbalance. Defeating one of the main reasons why I was even considering their trailer. After careful measuring, we agreed that 12” would be just enough to clear the roof of my 7' 4” car. And the door could carry the load of my cars. They charged me $322.00 for that 12” and another $90.00 for the redesigned ramp door with extra reinforcements to accommodate the increased height and weight of my cars.

On the surface the “Class Act” trailer looks great. But they surely do not live up to their name. They have yet to return my calls or to JTI,, the selling dealer. With my diligence, I finally have reached a nice lady today for a second time. That informed me that they are not going to replace the door. But would make me a new one for $1,000.00 plus shipping. But refused to give me any names of who is actually in charged. She did ask me for some photographs. That I'll send off..

OldCarGuy
05-29-2009, 10:28 AM
Couldn't hurt to forward a link to this thread to both JTI and Class Act. They can see how they're losing credibility and customers.

They are receiving a lot of publicity from the Internet from this thread. Do a Google search, using “ClassAct car hauler” It already has shown up on the first page. Before their website listing... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=classact+car+hauler&btnG=Search&cts=1243548846542&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Or Google “ClassAct warranty” http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=classact+warranty&btnG=Search&cts=1243549539198&aq=f&oq=&aqi=




.

global72
05-29-2009, 11:04 AM
$1000 for the door. Ask them if you can get a bulk discount maybe an order of 20 or so as you will need to replace it every time you load your car.

It is a sad state for a company to not transfer you up the line to people that may have the authority to get a problem fixed. Especially in a small business, I am sure the nice old lady can see the decision maker from where she was sitting. The problem with the door well fine, things happen you work toward center and try to find the best solution possible. But for management or the owners to just hide but not allowing their staff to transfer calls to them or give out their names is inexcusable. This is the exact reason we dropped about 6 different manufacturers in the past.

In addition is it just me or does it seem ridiculous that a 2500 lb rated door would fail at 2505 lbs. It seems like they would have allowed some room there.

--Sorry -- I'll end my rant

Again sorry your having the problems. It is such a huge waste of time and energy to have to deal with junk like this. But keep fighting the good fight and hopefully they will come to their senses and work to find a reasonable solution.

e-tek
05-29-2009, 12:49 PM
They have yet to return my calls or to JTI,, the selling dealer. With my diligence, I finally have reached a nice lady today for a second time. That informed me that they are not going to replace the door. But would make me a new one for $1,000.00 plus shipping. But refused to give me any names of who is actually in charged. She did ask me for some photographs. That I'll send off..

Now that SUCKS! It's kinda like my General Contractor issues - you never really know who you have hired/purchased from until a problem surfaces and we see how they react. How long does it take a business person to learn that by avoiding a situation like this they increase their goodname - and therefore sales - much more that the cost of the warranty repair??

Jeez - some people have no business being in business!

Keep
05-29-2009, 01:01 PM
The simple fact that they went and updated their website to state the 2500lb rating shows that they know they are in the wrong.

Make sure you mention that to your Lawyer, as they can then subpoena the hosting company get the file edit dates/times.

AtlasRocker
05-29-2009, 01:40 PM
I sure hope this works out for you. Someone mentioned earlier that this seems to be the new norm. Big marketing talk but some fine print that says it yours not mine.

I just emailed them and told them I was looking at there trailer but based on this information have removed them from the list. If anyone is so inclined, here is their email address: info@classacttrailers.com

OldCarGuy
05-29-2009, 01:55 PM
The simple fact that they went and updated their website to state the 2500lb rating shows that they know they are in the wrong.

Make sure you mention that to your Lawyer, as they can then subpoena the hosting company get the file edit dates/times.

I don't recall if the 2,500 pound capacity was or wasn't on their Website when I purchased it. In any case “WE”, meaning the dealer (JTI) and I, thoroughly went over the type and weight of cars going over the ramp door. And I know he kept going back and forth with Class Act. JTI is an extremely well known and highly respected Cleveland Ohio dealer. That has always served me well over the years. And I'm sure that he wouldn't have sidestepped them!


I looked at the link you posted when you first got the trailer in '07. I could see no weight limit stickers on the door when the trailer was new.

That's correct. There is NO weight capacity sticker attached to the door!


Even if Class Act Trailer caves completely, what's the best they could do? They only have 2500 lb doors. Put a new door on and tell OCG not to load any car? Class Act Trailer will have to take the trailer back and refund the purchase price.

I really like the trailer though! Particularly after I added the cabinets, aluminum tongue box, winch etc. And would never ask them to take it back. I just want them to replace the defective ramp door!

When further examining the ramp door, it looks as if it was made with no steel or aluminum reinforcements. Just a laminate of fiberglass, wood and foam core in an aluminum frame.. I cannot be sure without cutting it all up though.


.

Fiberglass Fred
05-29-2009, 02:25 PM
they are not going to replace the door. But would make me a new one for $1,000.00 plus shipping.
They're more worried about $1000 than they are about the bad press:headscrat

That doesn't sound like the kind of company I would ever want to do business with.

stick004
05-29-2009, 02:27 PM
Unfortunatley... a civil law suit needs to be on the way.

1SlowFormula
05-29-2009, 02:31 PM
I hope they step up, I know there are lots of people out there searching for trailers, or info about trailers just as you did when you bought this one, but now this thread pops up near the top of all searches so they are screwing themselves by screwing you. I have an old 90something 28' Pace American trailer, and that door has seen everything including the weight of my tow rig, yes I have driven the front wheels of my well over 6K# truck up the ramp, just to test it before I bought it, and there was no flex nor issues then or since. I wish you the best with it...

hetkind
05-29-2009, 02:40 PM
We bought a big tex motorcycle trailer a few years ago, and we got excellent service and support...

However, the tail lights seem expendable when backing on soft ground.

Luckily Tractor Supply has them by the bin for $12...

Howard

musgofasta
05-29-2009, 05:09 PM
If they stiff you, I'm sure you can build your own ramp-door for less than $1000.

Over straighten, reinforce, and re-laminate the current door.

We've all seen your garage OCG, we know you can do it!

Ironcrow
05-29-2009, 07:54 PM
I really like the trailer though! Particularly after I added the cabinets, aluminum tongue box, winch etc. And would never ask them to take it back. I just want them to replace the defective ramp door! OK, I can get behind that idea. You want to keep the trailer and Class Act has a weak door. Ergo, you must be thinking of modifying the door yourself or paying someone to modify it...So, is the cost of strengthening the door very different from repairing and strengthening the door? Perhaps not. If this is the case, we are burning time, e-mail, phone, and attorney fees over not very much at all?

I'm just saying; I'm behind you all the way. You got a raw deal. But, is it time to just hang up the phone and make a better door?

OldCarGuy
05-31-2009, 07:45 PM
If they stiff you, I'm sure you can build your own ramp-door for less than $1000.

We've all seen your garage OCG, we know you can do it!

No doubt I can build a ramp door. And for sure it would carry any weight that I care to drive in my trailer. But I’m not so sure that I wouldn’t go through $1,000.00 worth of material to fabricate one. Because I don't have the volume buying power that the manufacturer has. Plus I have enough other projects in and around my home already and car shows to attend to keep me busy all summer long. Then spending my time fixing a ramp door that the manufacturer clearly under designed.

Think about it. You purchased a new home, that you paid 20% premium than the equivalent homes around you. Then have the wooden deck out back have structural failure well with the warranty period. Rendering the deck or for that matter the whole house unusable, when a 300 pound guest ventured on in. Then the builder tells you that the deck should have had a 250 pound warning label on it. And wasn’t going to make good his warranty because the deck was design to carry only 250 pounds. Even though he was told well in advance that you entertain 300 pound guests all the time!

Now knowing that you had the ability to make a new deck. Would you simply purchase the necessary materials and fabricate a new deck. Or would you expect the manufacturer to replace the deck for you? Well I don't know about you. But I'm putting up a fight to make sure that the Manufacturer rights his wrong..... :thumbup:



.

structures282
05-31-2009, 08:07 PM
Ever weighed the packard? Are you sure it's more than 2500 per axle.

hoarder1212
05-31-2009, 09:08 PM
From their website it appears that the manufacturer is in LaGrange Indiana. I bet thats less than 3 hrs from your home. I would be inclined to park it on their doorstep and demand it be fixed. Tell them to fix it at their cost or there will be lettering on it at every car show you attend the rest of the year. I bet if you show up with it you will get some results.

Junkman
05-31-2009, 09:11 PM
From their website it appears that the manufacturer is in LaGrange Indiana. I bet thats less than 3 hrs from your home. I would be inclined to park it on their doorstep and demand it be fixed. Tell them to fix it at their cost or there will be lettering on it at every car show you attend the rest of the year. I bet if you show up with it you will get some results.


Fix it at their cost, implies that he will be paying the bill for their actual labor and material costs. I believe that what you meant to say that they will fix it at no cost to the owner of the trailer...

HOTFR8
06-01-2009, 01:20 AM
But I'm putting up a fight to make sure that the Manufacturer rights his wrong..... :thumbup:

Good for you.:thumbup: You tell them. :thumbup:

hoarder1212
06-01-2009, 09:26 AM
Thank you Junkman for pointing out the error in my ways. Maybe I should hire you to follow me around and tell everyone what I meant to say, life would be so much easier!

OldCarGuy
06-01-2009, 11:58 AM
How close are you to the place you bought it? I realize it's not the dealer's problem, but I bet if you had the side of that trailer wrapped with the words "Don't Buy a Class Act Trailer--Their Doors Are Weak And They Won't Stand Behind Their Warranty" and then park it across the street on a Saturday morning, you'll get some response.

I'd have a vinyl lettering guy do up those words, put them on the trailer, and take pictures of the trailer and send it to the company, along with a list of websites you will be publishing it on. (Here, HAMB, YellowBullet, etc. etc. etc. ), and a list of events you will be attending with it.

-Brad

Thanks Brad,, That's a Great idea!

One of my cars has the honor of being invited to the 2009 Ault Park Concours d'Elegance in Cincinnati Ohio in two weeks. http://www.cincyconcours.com/ That will be attended by Hundreds of participants. Along with ten's of thousands of antique car enthusiasts from around the country. I can only wonder the remarks I will receive when I show up with bright red lettered signs on all four sides of my trailer. It won't be much of a Class Act!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0080.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0074.jpg

lawfarm
06-01-2009, 12:06 PM
OCG,

I like the suggestion on the signage, but think we can work on your verbiage. You need to reference the warranty refusals, as well.

I also think that, at some point in the near future if you cannot get satisfaction, you should share the identity and e-mail address(es) for the person(s) you are speaking with, so others on this board can advise Class Act that we will not be making any purchases from them based on their treatment of you.

dep5
06-01-2009, 12:10 PM
What is the axle rating of this trailer?

OldCarGuy
06-01-2009, 12:17 PM
What is the axle rating of this trailer?

The total Axle ratings and GAWR is 10,400 pounds. Less the trailer's weight make its' payload about 7,000 pounds.

OldCarGuy
06-01-2009, 12:23 PM
OCG,

I like the suggestion on the signage, but think we can work on your verbiage. You need to reference the warranty refusals, as well.

I also think that, at some point in the near future if you cannot get satisfaction, you should share the identity and e-mail address(es) for the person(s) you are speaking with, so others on this board can advise Class Act that we will not be making any purchases from them based on their treatment of you.

I'm all ears about the proper verbiage for the signs. But I need a week to get them professionally made up. Keep the ideas coming... :thumbup:

Since Class Act didn't return my dealer's phone calls last week. He promised me that he was going to go after them with a full head of steam this week. I'll keep everyone posted of any headway.


.

tdkkart
06-01-2009, 12:47 PM
"This trailer is a POS that the manufacturer will not warranty, possibly losing parts, please stay back 300ft"

Finious
06-01-2009, 01:08 PM
I sent an email to them because I really WAS considering purchasing a trailer from them. This is the response I received. Start from the bottom and work your way up to here. All I can say is :wtf:

From: pat.hickey@classacttrailers.com

I have seen post to each of my competitors the same. I am not going to dish dirt to people whom aren’t involved in the situation. I do not work in that dynamic. We solve issues with our customers on a one on one level. Also, to try a professional level. I would hope that people would realize there are good products being manufactured every where, regardless of brand or reputation. No product is made perfect and it is not always going to last for a lifetime. I would treat you (if you were a retail customer of mine with dignity)and with care and consideration. Thank you for your concern and I hope you find a perfect trailer with in the industry and we all hope for the best.

From: BPray
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:57 PM
To: Pat Hickey
Subject: RE:

Pat,

If that is the case tell me your side and you might keep a customer or two. The gentleman I’m referring to has told his story……lets hear yours.

BPray

"Sorry to hear you believe in gossip. I have seen the post, and always remember there are two sides to every story. Thank you and have a nice day

From: BPray
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:54 PM
To: Pat Hickey
Subject:

To Whom It May Concern:

I was considering purchasing one of your trailers but after reading online that you won’t stand behind your product; I’ll take my business to your competitor!! No wonder companies like your won’t be in business for long. I also can’t believe that you are going to charge the customer $1,000 to replace his door that has a 2” bend in his door due to terrible craftsmanship, or in your case lousy work."

stick004
06-01-2009, 01:30 PM
That's nice. kinda sounds like an A-hole anyways. Glad to see he has at least seen this thread.

Or maybe there is more than one trailer bashing thread?

sirswank
06-01-2009, 04:42 PM
I have seen post to each of my competitors the same. I am not going to dish dirt to people whom aren’t involved in the situation. I do not work in that dynamic. We solve issues with our customers on a one on one level. Also, to try a professional level. I would hope that people would realize there are good products being manufactured every where, regardless of brand or reputation. No product is made perfect and it is not always going to last for a lifetime. I would treat you (if you were a retail customer of mine with dignity)and with care and consideration. Thank you for your concern and I hope you find a perfect trailer with in the industry and we all hope for the best.

is this english?

JCQuick
06-01-2009, 06:19 PM
Hey Old car guy one of my mom's neighbors has a problem with his volvo he went all out web site and wraped the car check it out.http://orlando-volvo.com/ you may shoot him an e-mail and ask how he got away with it. He has a company thats make advertizement show and promo stuff.
I spoke with him about his issue since i know who owns the local Volvo dealer he's got a legit complaint

Ray-CA
06-01-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm all ears about the proper verbiage for the signs. But I need a week to get them professionally made up. Keep the ideas coming... :thumbup:

Since Class Act didn't return my dealer's phone calls last week. He promised me that he was going to go after them with a full head of steam this week. I'll keep everyone posted of any headway.


.

Don't forget to include the image of several lemons on the sign.

Ray

1SlowFormula
06-01-2009, 07:25 PM
Hey Old car guy one of my mom's neighbors has a problem with his volvo he went all out web site and wraped the car check it out.http://orlando-volvo.com/ you may shoot him an e-mail and ask how he got away with it. He has a company thats make advertizement show and promo stuff.
I spoke with him about his issue since i know who owns the local Volvo dealer he's got a legit complaint
wow, that is pretty funny I almost bought an identical minus yellow Volvo a few years back...

Vicious_Cycle
06-01-2009, 09:13 PM
is this english?
As a second language maybe.

Wardster
06-02-2009, 09:01 AM
JTI's hands are not clean. They were obviously the ones talking to Class Act about what you intended to do with the trailer.

Have you spoken to an attorney about this situation? Letters need to be written before amnesia sets in.

-Wardster

Ray_Thms
06-02-2009, 09:33 AM
I might not be very much help for you. But I want you to know that you sure saved me a big heartache. I had it narrowed down to the Class Act ACTC8524TA3 and Haulmark RVN85X24WT324 v-nose enclosed trailer. Even though the Class Act was a lot more money I all but ruled out the Haulmark yesterday. Until I came across this thread. That made me take another look. I placed a call to Haulmark factory early this morning. They confirmed that their trailer comes with a 4,000 pound capacity rear ramp door as standard equipment. And not a stingy 2,500 door. I will be placing my order for a Haulmark now.

Thanks again for your post and helping me make an intelligent decision. And avoiding the pitfalls you are going through. Who would have known to compare doors? :beer:

Stuey
06-02-2009, 09:38 AM
I'd recommend sending your story in to the consumerist (mailto:tips@consumerist.com) (consumerist.com (http://consumerist.com/))

They have a way of straightening things out favorably for the consumer.

ironroad 9c1
06-02-2009, 11:01 AM
I would avoid any slander until you talked to a lawyer and had several letters sent.Slander has a nasty way of backfiring on you ,should you go to court over this.

Stuey
06-02-2009, 11:28 AM
I would avoid any slander until you talked to a lawyer and had several letters sent.Slander has a nasty way of backfiring on you ,should you go to court over this.
Isn't it only considered slander if it's not true...

Still, you're right - starting a "classic act sucks" type of site or similarly immature action could do more harm than good.

jake00
06-02-2009, 06:10 PM
While the site is no longer there, neither is the dealer.....

from a few years ago, http://web.archive.org/web/20001018080427/www.madisoncountydodge.com/0.html

35mastr
06-02-2009, 06:19 PM
OCG,Have they contacted you yet on any resolution?

OldCarGuy
06-02-2009, 09:55 PM
OCG,Have they contacted you yet on any resolution?

Class Act has yet to return my last phone call from this past Friday. When they asked me to forward some photos of the fractured door. Rather than taking the time to download the pictures. I made it easy on myself and sent off a link to this thread.

trackwelder
06-02-2009, 10:48 PM
Hopefully Class Act will do whats right. Step up Class Act and fix OCG's trailer...lots of people are watching.

OldCarGuy
06-03-2009, 10:41 AM
I would avoid any slander until you talked to a lawyer and had several letters sent.Slander has a nasty way of backfiring on you ,should you go to court over this.

I don't pretend to practice law. But from what little I know about law. Libel is an action that damages someone's reputation. There are two types of libelous actions. Spoken words would be slander. While written words would be defamation. Varying somewhat from different areas of our country. Any particular court may rule against you, even if you can back it up with fact. But only if you don't put up a good defense. However a jury would be hard pressed to side with a manufacturer over his victim. Besides being cheaper to just fix my ramp door. It would be suicide to take a customer to court. For sure, it would hurt his business. And even shut his doors. A good example it the less than that stellar Dodge dealer mentioned by Jake...

By the way, I will be contacting my lawyer later this week and ask him what verbiage I can put on the signs that I'll be making up for the upcoming car show. I could use some more ideas...

That being said. I cannot phantom how any manufacturer could survive in todays business climate not taking care of their customers. A happy customer spreads good will to a 100 people. But an unhappy one may be inclined to spread the word to thousands. In the long run any reputable company would make good their products to keep their customer's happy and a good reputation.

Case in point. I sold a used drill press to a member here for $220.00. I purchased it along with a ton of other items and didn't actually know much about its' condition. After he set it up at home, he found it to be defective. And sent photo's that it had some faulty parts. I immediately told him to return it and I'll gladly return his money. Or I would repair it to good working order. He chose the latter. In three days he picked up the parts that I repaired. And is now a happy camper, enjoying his drill press. And I'm a happy man knowing that I made good his purchase. I'm a man of principle and highly prise my reputation. And will go to any lengths to protect it! Here's a link to that thread.===> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=439065&postcount=14

This is what the owner had to say,,
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=440630&postcount=17

Followed by remarks from several members,,,
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=439289&postcount=15

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=440531&postcount=16

1SlowFormula
06-03-2009, 11:12 AM
Class Act has yet to return my last phone call from this past Friday. When they asked me to forward some photos of the fractured door. Rather than taking the time to download the pictures. I made it easy on myself and sent off a link to this thread.
It sucks that they haven't gotten back to you yet, I had to do something similar after we bought our truck (05 Ram bought in the summer of 05), we bought it late in the evening, actually signed the papers after the dealership was closed, and had to take it back to have it "detailed" and have some repair work that came up before we actually purchased it. Needless to say when my wife went back to get it there was a lot of misc damage and they said that she must have caused it because she was a "woman driver" of a truck and that that damage wasn't there when we bough it just days before. She agreed it wasn't there when she dropped it off at the dealership either, so I had to get into the middle, I went onto the dodge forums and posted what happened, took pics and had a link to them in my sig there. When talking to the dealership and finally got the manager on the phone he asked me to send pics of everything (I think he was using it as a stall tactic) and I suprised him and just gave him the URL and told him that it was on my signature on all the car forums I frequent, that told me to bring it back in hte next day and they had it for a few days fixing it and blamed it on the detailers...

I hope the best to you, but you may want to link this thread into your sig on other forums too if you want to spread the word further...

BTW, here are the pics I used to have linked in my sig http://www.pszweb.com/truck notice the counter @ the bottom that tracks how many page views there were, I can't believe after all these years it has made it from 0 up to over 13K and it isn't even in my sigs anymore...

JoeAE86
06-03-2009, 08:50 PM
I don't pretend to practice law. But from what little I know about law. Libel is an action that damages someone's reputation. There are two types of libelous actions. Spoken words would be slander. While written words would be defamation. Varying somewhat from different areas of our country. Any particular court may rule against you, even if you can back it up with fact. But only if you don't put up a good defense. However a jury would be hard pressed to side with a manufacturer over his victim. Besides being cheaper to just fix my ramp door. It would be suicide to take a customer to court. For sure, it would hurt his business. And even shut his doors. A good example it the less than that stellar Dodge dealer mentioned by Jake...

By the way, I will be contacting my lawyer later this week and ask him what verbiage I can put on the signs that I'll be making up for the upcoming car show. I could use some more ideas...

That being said. I cannot phantom how any manufacturer could survive in todays business climate not taking care of their customers. A happy customer spreads good will to a 100 people. But an unhappy one may be inclined to spread the word to thousands. In the long run any reputable company would make good their products to keep their customer's happy and a good reputation.


OldCarGuy, just to clarify a bit. Defamation is the overarching term for an action that damages someone's reputation. Libel is written while slander is spoken. You probably just transposed libel and defamation.

And the truth is always a just defense for defamation, so as long as your words are truthful, you won't have anything to worry about.

cnyeco1
06-03-2009, 09:19 PM
Old Car guy.

I really hope you get this manufactures misdeed fixed. They should have contacted you immediatley for obvious safety reasons. Sounds like this could be a defect in the gate, or it could be the welds are faulty. Either way they need to get this fixed and make sure it doesn't happen in the future.

Definetly keep us posted on this.

Cam.

OldCarGuy
06-04-2009, 10:52 AM
OldCarGuy, just to clarify a bit. Defamation is the overarching term for an action that damages someone's reputation. Libel is written while slander is spoken. You probably just transposed libel and defamation.

And the truth is always a just defense for defamation, so as long as your words are truthful, you won't have anything to worry about.

Thanks for the clarification Joe. That's why I don't practice law. :beer:

OldCarGuy
06-04-2009, 11:01 AM
Old Car guy.

I really hope you get this manufactures misdeed fixed. They should have contacted you immediatley for obvious safety reasons. Sounds like this could be a defect in the gate, or it could be the welds are faulty. Either way they need to get this fixed and make sure it doesn't happen in the future.

Definetly keep us posted on this.

Cam.

At least the dealer is taking this matter seriously. They have been in close contact with me this week about the faulty ramp door. And working on Class Act to replace the door.

I'll be keeping everyone updated of the progress... :thumbup:

bmwpower
06-04-2009, 09:35 PM
Did someone say stickied?

HOTFR8
06-04-2009, 09:44 PM
Did someone say stickied?

Sure is a sticky situation. Got your message OCG. I wish you all the best getting it resolved with plenty of common sense. :thumbup:

Uncle Buck
06-04-2009, 10:51 PM
I have been following this thread and I am just appalled that this company would provide such poor customer service. This is a very poor reflection on them, and their business practices. I am sorry to hear of such a stand up guy having to go through all this just to get the manufacturer to stand behind their product.

I hope you do not have to take it to court to make them stand behind their product.

mmg440
06-04-2009, 11:43 PM
He may have only exceeded the non-posted/Un-labled limit by a little anyway. Remember only one axle is ever in the middle section of the door at a time leaving a good portion of the wight not even on the door. If you find out the axle wight of the cars you would be able to find out what the door was loaded to. It was no were near the whole wight of the cars loaded

e-tek
06-04-2009, 11:52 PM
That being said. I cannot phantom how any manufacturer could survive in todays business climate not taking care of their customers.


:) I think you meant "fathom", as in:

I cannot fathom how this business would not stand by it's warranty, or at the very least, offer up a remedy for the sake of Good Will.

When times are good, businesses think they can afford to throw away a customer. When times lean out, the business is only as good as the name they have. It's decisions like this, made when times are good, that builds the name for the lean times. Basic buisness sense.

Hope it turns around for both of you.:thumbup:

jay50
06-05-2009, 12:22 AM
Dayum, what a sorry excuse for customer satisfaction and honoring the warranty after the sell. I guess class acts business model is to make the sell and to hell with any customer problems. Sounds like they are not concerned with long term stability; maybe they're eye-balling moving the operation to south of the border.

As far as them changing the website to include the capacity of the door, there's a way you can go into the web and look at the same website from a historical view and note what was previously on their site. There is a website devoted to archieves or another way you can get into the old web pages. I'm sure some of the web guys on GJ will chime in on this.

Keep the heat on 'em. The best place to put the heat is on the dealer since he was the one who helped you spec out your custom trailer to meet your needs.

IDASHO
06-05-2009, 12:33 AM
As far as them changing the website to include the capacity of the door, there's a way you can go into the web and look at the same website from a historical view and note what was previously on their site. There is a website devoted to archieves or another way you can get into the old web pages. I'm sure some of the web guys on GJ will chime in on this.

Here you go.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.classacttrailers.com/

Unfortunately, the most recent ones only go 1-2 web links into the site. The 3rd page is the one you need.

Regardless, there should have been documentation about the capacity of the door provided with the purchase.

redsky49
06-05-2009, 07:33 AM
The silence on the part of the manufacturer only contributes to the perception the OP is truly getting the shaft.

Glad I learned who is reputable and who is a "class act"!

OldCarGuy
06-05-2009, 09:47 AM
:) I think you meant "fathom", as in:

I cannot fathom how this business would not stand by it's warranty, or at the very least, offer up a remedy for the sake of Good Will.

When times are good, businesses think they can afford to throw away a customer. When times lean out, the business is only as good as the name they have. It's decisions like this, made when times are good, that builds the name for the lean times. Basic buisness sense.

Hope it turns around for both of you.:thumbup:

Enough said for spell checker.



I might not be very much help for you. But I want you to know that you sure saved me a big heartache. I had it narrowed down to the Class Act ACTC8524TA3 and Haulmark RVN85X24WT324 v-nose enclosed trailer. Even though the Class Act was a lot more money I all but ruled out the Haulmark yesterday. Until I came across this thread. That made me take another look. I placed a call to Haulmark factory early this morning. They confirmed that their trailer comes with a 4,000 pound capacity rear ramp door as standard equipment. And not a stingy 2,500 door. I will be placing my order for a Haulmark now.

Thanks again for your post and helping me make an intelligent decision. And avoiding the pitfalls you are going through. Who would have known to compare doors? :beer:

You'll be happy with a time-tested proven-Solid Haulmark Trailer! :thumbup:

Ray,,, None of my previous four Haulmark car hauler's ramp doors ever failed after years of use under the same circumstances. But after closely reading over Haulmark Trailer's Website, I couldn't find any information about the capacity of their ramp doors. I made a phone call and had an informing conversation with one of Haulmark's engineers on the subject of Ramp doors. He went on to assure me that every one of their car haulers ramp doors are designed and manufactured with the capacity to handle the weight of any car that's within their trailer's capacity. And a door with 2,500 pound capacity would never be installed on any of their trailers with a GVWR 10,4000 of pounds. And confirmed Ray's post that a 4,000 pound capacity door would be standard equipment on a Haulmark car hauler equivalent to Class Act that I purchased...

Now to reiterate. Though their Website NOW states that the ramp door has a 2,500 pound capacity. But the rating was never pointed out to me at the time when I was ordering it. And for sure there was never any capacity label on the ramp door as the manufacturer NOW claims. More ever there is a GVWR label of 10,400 pounds found on the frame. However I DID thoroughly discussed the type and weight of vehicles that would go over the ramp door a number of times throughout the quoting process. And I opted out of ordering a door that was 18” longer than their standard door. Because Class Act said they could only design and build a ramp door 12” longer than their standard door that would be strong enough to carry vehicles up to 7,000 pounds...

For Sure Class Act doesn't deliver on their words, “At Class Act, We strive to exceed your expectations by producing a trailer of superior strength and durability.” Well my expectation is that the trailer's ramp door must be constructed to handle any vehicle weighing less than the trailer's carrying capacity. How else could it get into the trailer?

From Class Act's Webpage..
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/ClassAct_Wedsite-1.jpg

These are the pictures of my last Haulmark Car Hauler that had carried hundreds of vehicles more than 70,000 miles over ten years of use. I sold it two years ago, and it's still holding up. That's more than I can say for my Class Act Trailer...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF1326.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF1327.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF1324.jpg

PAToyota
06-05-2009, 09:58 AM
Based on the size and capacity of the trailer, I would think that the door (loading ramp) should at least be designed to handle half the rated capacity. Personally, I'd design it for slightly more than half as most vehicles are going to have one end heavier than the other.

The fact that your trailer did not come with the capacity sticker and that weights and loading were a concern when you purchased it further calls into question their dealing with the issue. I'm sure that you would not have purchased a trailer that did not meet your specifications and attempted to do due diligence in your research before purchase.

Jaguar Fan
06-05-2009, 10:56 AM
... From what I've seen over the years trailer manufactuers don't have the best reputation in the world for being completely honest about their products and many of them will go with a lesser part in order to save a few dollars in the manufacturing process.

We all vote with our dollars. Many of us on this forum are examples of people who want a premium product and are willing to pay a premium price to get a good product. When I find out that a manufacturer skimps to save a few dollars as you point out, the first thing I think to myself is "that wouldn't happen in the USA; that must be a cheap import from someplace in the 3rd world where they don't know how to spell 'engineering.' "

Jaguar Fan
06-05-2009, 11:12 AM
I want to thank all the members for all your ideas and support. It's totally appreciated. :beer:

Their Website NOW states that the ramp door has a 2,500 pound capacity. But for sure the weight of the cars that would go over the ramp was discussed many times throughout the quoting process. The Class Act remarks about the door capacity that I received through the dealer, stated that only half the total weight of the car would be on the ramp at a time....

I paid Class Act for a number of upgrades and some design changes to accommodate my cars. I originally had it quoted to have the height increased by 18” along with the lengthening the ramp door. The factory said the door couldn't be designed strong enough to carry my cars without going to an overhead spring counterbalance. Defeating one of the main reasons why I was even considering their trailer. After careful measuring, we agreed that 12” would be just enough to clear the roof of my 7' 4” car. And the door could carry the load of my cars. They charged me $322.00 for that 12” and another $90.00 for the redesigned ramp door with extra reinforcements to accommodate the increased height and weight of my cars.

On the surface the “Class Act” trailer looks great. But they surely do not live up to their name. They have yet to return my calls or to JTI,, the selling dealer. With my diligence, I finally have reached a nice lady today for a second time. That informed me that they are not going to replace the door. But would make me a new one for $1,000.00 plus shipping. But refused to give me any names of who is actually in charged. She did ask me for some photographs. That I'll send off..

Now THAT's incredible -- that the person you you reached won't give you the names of anyone else in the company who is in charge. AND, it is incredible that their engineers were involved to redesign the door for you but somehow missed the whole picture.

I really hope Class Act will do the right thing. There are many people on this forum who are in the market for car haulers, and Class Act would be best served by stepping up to the plate, even in these tough economic times.

billspit
06-05-2009, 12:59 PM
Well I'm not planning on buying a trailer any time soon, but if I do, you can bet I will remembr the name of what trailer not to buy.

Uncle Buck
06-05-2009, 01:10 PM
Well I'm not planning on buying a trailer any time soon, but if I do, you can bet I will remembr the name of what trailer not to buy.

That is for sure, you can bet I will be linking to this and sharing the word on other auto boards I frequent to get the word out. Enough bad press and hopefully they can be driven out of business!

Defender Chassis
06-05-2009, 01:58 PM
I once bought a 34' gooseneck car trailer made by Timberwolf. I bought a 34' because at 36' the frame was upsized to the tune of an additional 2k lb. The 34' came with 5400 lb axles and I inquired about upgrading to 6K's so I would have better brakes and 16" tires. For this upgrade I was charged and gladly paid approximately $750. After I took possesion of the trailer I noticed my truck had a harder time pulling it than I had anticipated so I had it weighed. It was almost 2k lb's heavier than anticipated. I checked the frame and guess what? It was the 10" instead of the 8" that was standard on the 34' model. I called Timberwolf and they said that they always upgrade the frame when upgrading the axles. I said so I paid $750 to reduce my capacity 800 lb and have the pleasure of towing an extra 2k lbs around everywhere I go? This, along with several other issues with quality led to them retaking possesion of the new trailer and returning my money. It took several months so keep up the fight OCG. Im sure you will prevail.

Tarheelgarage
06-05-2009, 02:44 PM
OCG, if they continue to avoid addressing the issue, you might consider contacting the State regulatory and consumer affairs office.

Also, the state/fed DOT folks would also be another source to get involved since they are involved with establishing regulations for highway trailers.

Ramblur
06-05-2009, 03:35 PM
Great to know that six people can stand on the roof,but you can't drive a car
up the ramp...:wtf:

My trusty old US Cargo is tentatively sold to a guy that can't put a shed
in his backyard but can LEGALLY park the trailer there as long as its tagged.:headscrat
It's being replaced with a 2000 Featherlite from a guy we used to race
with who upgraded to a stacker.

OldCarGuy
06-06-2009, 06:02 PM
Seeing that Class Act hasn’t got off dead center yet. And a major car show coming up in a week, that I need a trailer to haul my car in. I started taking off the ramp door hardware and try to straighten and reinforce the door temporarily to get me by.

Now it’s really starting to get interesting. Class Act was right about one thing. I found a Safety Weight Warning Label on the door! I never noticed it before. Because of its’ location, on the inside edge near the top of the ramp door. Small overall size, 1 3/4" by 4" with small black letters. And having a silver background makes it blend into the aluminum side rails. Nothing like the two large conspicuous Red warning labels located on the outside of the door near the locking arms. That only warn about the door being heavy,, 120 pounds. Being hinged from one end and spring counter balanced, the door rests two feet off the ground.

This is the heavy weight warning label found on he outside of the door.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3679.jpg

I bet you cannot see the Safety Weight Label on the edge and near the end of the door? :mad:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3714.jpg

Here’s the Label up close! It Reads that the ramp door was manufactured only for consumer ATV’s and motorcycles. With a 1,000 pound per wheel contact... It’s amazing that this door didn’t fail a long time ago! I ordered a car hauler and everyone knew that I was putting cars in it. Why did they put on an ATV slash motorcycle ramp door!:shocking:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3712.jpg

The plot thickens. When I thought I show another angle of the ramp door’s bow, I found another label. Seems as if the my door was manufactured by a window shop. What’s interesting is that the manufacturer said that they no longer use this company.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3716.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3723.jpg


.

IDASHO
06-06-2009, 06:17 PM
Well, that changes everything.

Now all you have is your word stating that their salesman told you the door was rated for your loads. :(

redsky49
06-06-2009, 06:57 PM
Well, that changes everything.

Now all you have is your word stating that their salesman told you the door was rated for your loads. :(

Au contraire. There is the whole issue of suitability. If you purchase a car trailer,and are instead sold a motorcycle trailer represented to be a car trailer, how could the purchaser be held responsible? Who has misrepresented the product?

This seems more than likely to be litigated. How sad for both parties. Class Act really should have stepped up to the plate and fixed this.

If I was DOT, CPSC or Highway Safety, I would take a thorough look at the manufacturer, and all past sales, to see if further shenanigans have taken place.
:shocking:

Ramblur
06-06-2009, 10:26 PM
:wtf::headscrat What the heck is a "normal road clearance motorcycle" ???
:lol_hitti:lol_hitti:lol_hitti

Kevin54
06-07-2009, 05:29 AM
:wtf::headscrat What the heck is a "normal road clearance motorcycle" ???
:lol_hitti:lol_hitti:lol_hitti

Mustn't be allowed to carry dirt bikes in it as they are "off road" :lol_hitti

Dragster Racer
06-07-2009, 06:46 AM
I really have to disagree that this sticker changes anything. It's like hiding a sticker in the door jam of a car that says that you can't go over 55 mph. First, it's rediculus. Second, you have to put the sticker somewhere where people can practically see it. This is bad, and I will sure tell folks in the racing arena that this is not a trailer to look at if they can't stand behind their product.

Justanoldguy
06-07-2009, 07:53 AM
I would hesitate in fixing the door until liability by them is admitted and they fix it.
Meantime just use some steel ramps over the door to load your car.
They can then be slid under the car for when you unload it.

bmwpower
06-07-2009, 11:20 AM
Geez. I hope the trailer floor is rated for cars. Heck I hope the rest of the critical pieces are really rated for cars (bearings, etc).

Jaguar Fan
06-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Here’s the Label up close! It Reads that the ramp door was manufactured only for consumer ATV’s and motorcycles. With a 1,000 pound per wheel contact... It’s amazing that this door didn’t fail a long time ago! I ordered a car hauler and everyone knew that I was putting cars in it. Why did they put on an ATV slash motorcycle ramp door!

That is really quite unacceptable. You had the product changed to meet your specifications. They really need to do the right thing.

I for one would be willing to write to Class Act as part of an unsolicited mail-in support campaign. Perhaps a few hundred members of the Garage Journal might be willing to do so as well.

Class Act should do the right thing here even though they did have a nearly hidden sticker indicating the door wasn't suitable.

Titus
06-07-2009, 01:59 PM
I hope to buy a small (14-16') enclosed car trailer in the next year or so. While I would never be carrying anything over 3000 lbs, I still will be marking Class Act off my list based how they are dealing with this situation.

mmg440
06-07-2009, 02:16 PM
Geez. I hope the trailer floor is rated for cars. Heck I hope the rest of the critical pieces are really rated for cars (bearings, etc).


Right, I would hope/wonder too.
What it seems to me they are doing is picking and choosing what parts are to be realistically rated for the equipment they are selling, and then what is not they try and cover there a$$ by printing small inconspicuous warning labels so they don't have to warranty the BAD build choices they made. We know a door can handle it but maybe it can't be light enough to uses the torsion springs and it may have to go back to the cable system? They probably wanted to offer the spring set up so they went ahead and put a inadequate door on a trailer designed to handle much more then the door could.

Iron-Iceberg
06-07-2009, 04:59 PM
What a bunch of scam artists. What other stickers are hidding around on the frame etc?

jake00
06-07-2009, 06:28 PM
I'm surprised you haven't heard back from CA yet

twarren
06-07-2009, 08:26 PM
This is an interesting thread. What do you think debacle this has cost the "Class Act" company so far? Hundreds if not thousands of people will read this thread and will not purchase a product by this company, me included. I noticed in one post that the product is sold in Canada as well as US. Well, Class Act isn't going to get anything but negitive publicity from me.

Warren.............

HOTFR8
06-07-2009, 09:00 PM
Class Act - No longer have class. Sounds like the Dealer has more class than his supplier.

Doug19
06-07-2009, 09:14 PM
You should update your first post with the new pictures you just posted that way if people are searching the web and click the link they don't have to scan through 6 pages to read all the information.

jake00
06-07-2009, 09:18 PM
. Sounds like the Dealer has more class than his supplier.

I dunno
In turn the manufacturer assured JTI that the door would be just fine. ......................................I voiced my concern to JTI about how the door would bend when I drive my 4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac in. Lest my 6,000 pound 1930 Packard. I was assured that was not a concern.

Sounds like when the dealer received the trailer, they should have determined that the door did not meet the needs of the customer, and was not what the customer had ordered

HOTFR8
06-07-2009, 09:30 PM
I dunno


Sounds like when the dealer received the trailer, they should have determined that the door did not meet the needs of the customer, and was not what the customer had ordered

Correct, but at least the dealer is trying to help.

OldCarGuy
06-07-2009, 09:51 PM
I'm surprised you haven't heard back from CA yet

Class Act has yet to return calls from either JTI, my dealer, or me. And this past week I agreed to let JTI work things out with them. As of Friday, no positive word came from the manufacturer. I’m going to see what JTI has to say about my car hauler having an ATV/motorcycle ramp door. And make a plan of action...

I did a search of Nappanee Window. One of their claims to fame was manufacturing ramp doors for the RV industry. And hold a Us Patent # 7213860 that covers a composite cargo door/ramp.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=fOB_AAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=United+States+Patent+7213860&source=bl&ots=xCp_M0hH49&sig=G1aKzF13IRc1rC-gLUFoYjAn4-M&hl=en&ei=AWosSpy9NISgM4KixcUJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

Nappanee Window changed their name to Terra group just after they built my ramp door. And have since shut down their operation September 2008. I’m going to work on finding the ex-employee’s to see what they have to say about the ramp door and their relationship with Class Act.
http://www.rvbusiness.com/2008/09/terra-group-closing-3-plants/

bmwpower
06-07-2009, 09:55 PM
"Terra Group, an innovative door manufacturer that received Indiana state recognition for its recycling program..."

It would appear that your rear door may be made up of recycled aluminum cans. :lol_hitti

OldCarGuy
06-07-2009, 10:04 PM
Correct, but at least the dealer is trying to help.


I do not fault my dealer. He has gone out of his way to correct the problems I’ve ben having with trailer. And has always been in touch with me. It’ll be a joint effort to get Class Act to replace the door.

After all that I’ve gone through with this trailer. And living with several other major manufacturing mistakes. I’m getting to the point of making them give me my money back or replace the whole trailer with new one. Not just replacing the door. And after discovering that the ramp door was intended for ATV’s and motorcycles yesterday.. :shocking: I’m totally pissed off! And put a retainer on my lawyer that I’ve used for the past 30 years.

.

Mr. Welsh
06-07-2009, 10:36 PM
Another trailer problem? Sorry OCG. At least this time you've got a dealer to help.

I have no patience for a company charging a premium price and then not standing behind the product.

OldCarGuy
06-07-2009, 10:49 PM
"Terra Group, an innovative door manufacturer that received Indiana state recognition for its recycling program..."

It would appear that your rear door may be made up of recycled aluminum cans. :lol_hitti


From what I discovered about this ramp door. I think the door manufacturer got cash for the aluminum at another recycling facility rather than putting it into my ramp door... :lol_hitti

OldCarGuy
06-08-2009, 10:09 AM
Having a major car show this upcoming weekend. I needed to do some kind of temporary repairs to my Class Act Car hauler. At least get the ramp door secured and not held shut using bungee cords! And make some makeshift way of driving a car into the trailer.

Let's see what it'll take to straighten the door. I started by removing all the door's hardware. And placing the door on four jack stands. With wood to protect the surfaces. Rather than bringing out several 12' long 6” wide flange I-Beams that I had laying around. Those things are heavy. I started with doubling up tow 4” by 1/4” angle irons to each side, with a short piece of 2”x12” at each end. Using four large C-Clamps in the center as shown with a 2”x10” across the front side.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3725.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3724.jpg

There is a lot of mechanical advantage to screws. But I couldn't believe how little force was needed to bend the door. I could easily turn the clamps, one in each hand, with little effort. The first time around, I took the door just past being straight. But the door sprung back to its' original bow. Then I tightened it down to over-bend it the full 1 1/2”. A straight edge on the angle iron determined that it bowed only 1/32" to the door's 1 1/2". When releasing the clamps, the door straightened within 1/4”. Good enough to get the door closed.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3725.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3731.jpg

If you looked at the patent drawings. Three stiffening I-Beams run lengthwise in the door to add strength. But when I over-bent the door, the force was only placed at the two edges. Either there were no strengthening beams or they are insignificant in value. The center section followed the two edges. And no marks ever appeared on the surface.

This door was destined to failure. And may have been one of the reasons that Nappenee Windows is no longer in business. The door is made with a foam core sandwiched between two pieces of 1/ 4” plywood. With little or no reinforcements. Normal tire traffic from my cars driven over the ramp door eventually weakened the overall door's integrity. Resulting in a catastrophic structural failure.

I made two ramps from two eight foot long 2”x10” and fastened a hardwood cleat using three carriage bolts. I counter-bored the holes to make the washer and nut flush. The cleat rests in the recess between the door and tailer's deck. And holds the ramps in place when I drive a car in and out of the trailer.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3738.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3740.jpg

With the ramps in place...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3742.jpg

And adding blocking to the underside if the door using some 6''x6” and 4”x6” and a wedge piece under a 2”x10” across the door. Driving a car onto the ramp door and into the trailer.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3742.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3744.jpg

Then closed the ramp door, and we're good to go! I'm not about to do this each time I take a car in and out of the trailer. I'll see to it that Class Act is at least going to replace the door. Or for that matter give me a brand new trailer. Better yet I'll give them their faulty trailer back and they can refund my entire investment. And I'll purchase a proven solid and time-tested Haulmark Trailer. :thumbup:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3745.jpg

ahaidet
06-08-2009, 04:24 PM
OCG sorry that you don't seem to be getting the same kind of customer service you gave me on the drill press deal. If they did you would have had your trailer back in better than new shape in 2 days and got a tour of their facility thrown in...

To whomever from Class Act maybe reading this:

I know that whenever I make a purchase of any value I always check online for both professional and consumer reviews of products. A purchase this large for me would warrant a lot of research online to determine where my dollars are more wisely spent. Manufacturing mis-productions happen... but customer service is not an accident. You can be sure that if I read a thread online similar to this one that I would quickly remove that company from my shopping list and move on. As the details of this continue to be uncovered this looks to be more than a simple manufacturing mis-production. Either this was a deceptive attempt to sell a product with inferior parts or an exhibition of complete incompetence by your sales and engineering staff. In either event this is terrifying coming from a company that sells products intended for use on public highways. What other items have you sold to consumers with under-engineered or mis-used parts that can fail under conditions that were sold to them under the description of “normal” use? I for one will not be purchasing any Class Act products after hearing how you treat your customers both before and after the sale. This seems like another classic example of “over sell… under deliver.” No company that practices that motto ever lasts long in a world where bad press spreads in milliseconds. I hope for the best possible resolution to this for OCG’s sake.

Mr. Welsh
06-08-2009, 05:52 PM
Nappenee Windows is no longer in business.

Aren't ATC trailers built in Nappenee? Odd. What is it with Indiana and trailer manufacturers?

Art From De Leon
06-08-2009, 06:10 PM
Make sure you let the other exhibitors at the carshow know about your problems. Might make a sign, or banner, saying "Ask Me About My Class Act Trailer".

Every one reading this, should post a link at every other discussion board they are members of.

PAToyota
06-08-2009, 06:30 PM
I am surprised that during your initial investigations that Class Act was even willing to sell you this trailer as you were up front about what you were loading into it. If they knew their door had that ATV warning sticker on it how could they have even sold this to you in the first place?

boiler7904
06-08-2009, 08:08 PM
Aren't ATC trailers built in Nappenee? Odd. What is it with Indiana and trailer manufacturers?

For what it's worth, Haulmark Trailers are based in Indiana too. The Elkhart / South Bend area is the RV and trailer capital of America.

OldCarGuy
06-08-2009, 10:58 PM
I am surprised that during your initial investigations that Class Act was even willing to sell you this trailer as you were up front about what you were loading into it. If they knew their door had that ATV warning sticker on it how could they have even sold this to you in the first place?

You’re no more surprised that I. It had to be a major oversight or just incompetence in communications within Class Act and to Nappanee Window, who actually made the ramp door. I cannot imagine putting a sticker indicating that the ramp door was designed for ATV’s and motorcycles. Then installing it on my custom manufactured car hauler that was ordered to haul my cars....

Make sure you let the other exhibitors at the carshow know about your problems. Might make a sign, or banner, saying "Ask Me About My Class Act Trailer".

Every one reading this, should post a link at every other discussion board they are members of.

I placed an order today for three large signs that’ll be ready for pickup Friday. Just in time for the upcoming 32 annual Ault Park Concours d'Elegance in Cincinnati Ohio. Watch for a 65 foot long billboard running down I-71... Honk,, and I’ll return with blast from my air horns... You’ll know that it’s the OldCarGuy.. :beer:


OCG sorry that you don't seem to be getting the same kind of customer service you gave me on the drill press deal. If they did you would have had your trailer back in better than new shape in 2 days and got a tour of their facility thrown in...

To whomever from Class Act maybe reading this:

I know that whenever I make a purchase of any value I always check online for both professional and consumer reviews of products. A purchase this large for me would warrant a lot of research online to determine where my dollars are more wisely spent. Manufacturing mis-productions happen... but customer service is not an accident. You can be sure that if I read a thread online similar to this one that I would quickly remove that company from my shopping list and move on. As the details of this continue to be uncovered this looks to be more than a simple manufacturing mis-production. Either this was a deceptive attempt to sell a product with inferior parts or an exhibition of complete incompetence by your sales and engineering staff. In either event this is terrifying coming from a company that sells products intended for use on public highways. What other items have you sold to consumers with under-engineered or mis-used parts that can fail under conditions that were sold to them under the description of “normal” use? I for one will not be purchasing any Class Act products after hearing how you treat your customers both before and after the sale. This seems like another classic example of “over sell… under deliver.” No company that practices that motto ever lasts long in a world where bad press spreads in milliseconds. I hope for the best possible resolution to this for OCG’s sake.

Words well put, rightfully applied, and most graciously written! :thumbup:

.

walt111
06-09-2009, 02:49 PM
I was looking for an enclosed trailer last year. I did not see one from class act and am glad I didn't. Reading your horror story about the total lack of customer service is a warning NOT TO BUY A CLASS ACT PRODUCT. In my hobby people are always looking at enclosed trailers. Armed with evidence like this will save them a lot of grief from a lousy company such as class act. Thank you old car guy for the heads up.
walt

boiler7904
06-09-2009, 03:26 PM
Can't wait to see the signs you're putting on the trailer

1SlowFormula
06-10-2009, 08:11 AM
Can't wait to see the signs you're putting on the trailer

me either...


OCG, please post pics when you get the signs, and I hope things work out in the long run...
Oh yeah, since you straightened the door, you may want to take copies of all these pics with you to the events so people can see what you are refering too with your sign...

Jaguar Fan
06-10-2009, 11:53 AM
... And [they] hold a Us Patent # 7213860 that covers a composite cargo door/ramp...

As you probably know, most patents are not worth the paper they are written on. There is no requirement that an "invention" be useful to get a patent on it; no requirement that you can build it, that it makes economic sense, engineering sense, business sense or anything else.

Here is one of my favorite patents to illustrate the point: a patent on a "comb over" to conceal male pattern baldness. :bounce:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/Jaguar_Fan_1/MyFavoritePatent-1.jpg

and

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/Jaguar_Fan_1/MyFavoritePatent-3.jpg


and of course you need the illustrations ...

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/Jaguar_Fan_1/MyfavoritePatent-2.jpg

While comb overs have nothing to do with the thread, I just wanted to point out to everyone that possessing a patent covering a product doesn't indicate the product itself is worth a damn.

OldCarGuy
06-10-2009, 03:01 PM
"Terra Group, an innovative door manufacturer that received Indiana state recognition for its recycling program..."

It would appear that your rear door may be made up of recycled aluminum cans. :lol_hitti

I found the following blurb about how Nappanee Window reclaimed material to manufacture doors. One can only wonder the traceability of raw material and meeting consistent quality standards.

Nappanee Window takes a significant portion of the material that was previously hauled away to landfills and creates new doors from the recycled materials, and then sells the doors back to their customers at a significantly discounted price. Nappanee Window has partnerships with 18 manufacturing plants to reuse rout-outs, which accounts for over 27% of their monthly sales. Through the rout out program, 24.5 tons of waste material -including - EPS foam, wood, plastic, fiberglass, and fiberglass resins ? are diverted from landfill each month, resulting in large cost savings for participating customers.


Can't wait to see the signs you're putting on the trailer

I'm picking the signs up tomorrow morning. And will be putting them on the trailer in the evening. If I have time I'll post pictures for our members.

.

ddrewyor
06-11-2009, 03:30 PM
This is a long thread, and maybe I missed it being mentioned, but perhaps CA has a door that meets your needs capacity wise and would supply it to you at no cost vs. the hassle of a legal battle? I know they said they would sell you one for $1k, but I think it was the same thing you have. Best of luck.

Dave
________
Yamaha y125z specifications (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_Y125Z)

rwhite692
06-11-2009, 06:45 PM
Sorry to be throwing a wet blanket on this lynch mob, but....

4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac?

6,000 pound 1930 Packard?

on THAT door???

I think any person would have to be pretty ignorant, to think that a door constructed like that, could even begin to handle those kind of loads.

That is the typical "toy hauler" type of aluminum framed, glass-over-plywood door used for loading motorcycles and ATVs...perfectly suitable for THAT purpose and it is even labeled as such. A light race car in the 3000 pound range, would probably be about the practical limit, for a door like that.

The dealer clearly did not provide you with a product that met your stated needs. BUT it is still YOUR responsibility to use the product within the limits of it's capability and to use common sense. IMHO, one look at the trailer when you picked it up, should have told the dealer, and you, that this trailer was not set up to do what you need.

I'm not surprised that the trailer manufacturer is only offering to replace the door for $1K.

Even though the trailer may have a 7K pound total capacity, drop-down loading doors typically don't have anywhere near this capacity. Keep in mind that most race trailers get outfitted with benches/tools/generator/parts/"stuff"/etc, and this is where additional weight capacity is needed, aside from the car in the trailer.

What you need, given the 4500 to 6000 pound weight of the vehicles that you intend to load, is a swing-out split door configuration, (or a lift-up door) and a pair of solidly constructed stowable loading ramps.

As someone else previously stated, you also need to ensure that the floor of the trailer is constructed to bear these kind of loads (as in, 6000 pounds /four tire contact patches).

This is a clear case of a total mismatch between product and application.

-Flame suit on.

Junkman
06-11-2009, 06:54 PM
......................

-Flame suit on.

Better not fart in that flame suit, because you might just go up in smoke... :lol_hitti

rwhite692
06-11-2009, 07:15 PM
LOL...Sounds like you speak from experience! :)

OldCarGuy
06-11-2009, 07:27 PM
This is a long thread, and maybe I missed it being mentioned, but perhaps CA has a door that meets your needs capacity wise and would supply it to you at no cost vs. the hassle of a legal battle? I know they said they would sell you one for $1k, but I think it was the same thing you have. Best of luck.

Dave
As of Yesterday, my dealer has not been able to get Class Act to move off of dead center. The President of Class Act received a registered letter from me yesterday. Hopefully he’ll see to it to replace the faulty ramp door.

Sorry to be throwing a wet blanket on this lynch mob, but....

4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac?

6,000 pound 1930 Packard?

on THAT door???

I think any person would have to be pretty ignorant, to think that a door constructed like that, could even begin to handle those kind of loads.

That is the typical "toy hauler" type of aluminum framed, glass-over-plywood door used for loading motorcycles and ATVs...perfectly suitable for THAT purpose and it is even labeled as such. A light race car in the 3000 pound range, would probably be about the practical limit, for a door like that.

The dealer clearly did not provide you with a product that met your stated needs. BUT it is still YOUR responsibility to use the product within the limits of it's capability and to use common sense. IMHO, one look at the trailer when you picked it up, should have told the dealer, and you, that this trailer was not set up to do what you need.

I'm not surprised that the trailer manufacturer is only offering to replace the door for $1K.

Even though the trailer may have a 7K pound total capacity, drop-down loading doors typically don't have anywhere near this capacity. Keep in mind that most race trailers get outfitted with benches/tools/generator/parts/"stuff"/etc, and this is where additional weight capacity is needed, aside from the car in the trailer.

What you need, given the 4500 to 6000 pound weight of the vehicles that you intend to load, is a swing-out split door configuration, (or a lift-up door) and a pair of solidly constructed stowable loading ramps.

As someone else previously stated, you also need to ensure that the floor of the trailer is constructed to bear these kind of loads (as in, 6000 pounds /four tire contact patches).

This is a clear case of a total mismatch between product and application.

-Flame suit on.

The dealer as well as Class Act knew exactly my requirements. I ordered a 8'6" wide by 22' long Flat Front CAR Hauler. To haul cars not ATV’s and Motor Cycles. But I received and paid for a car hauler with a door designed and built only for ATV’s and Motor Cycles.

All my past Haulmark trailers came with ramp doors designed and built with more than enough strength to handle all my vehicles. And never failed.
Read this part of this thread. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=502846&postcount=95

.

bmwpower
06-11-2009, 08:11 PM
8,800 hits and counting... :)

OldCarGuy
06-11-2009, 08:25 PM
All the signs are on the Car Hauler now!

I called in a favor from a gentleman that I’ve known for over 40 years. He made up the signs and dropped them off first thing this morning. And I attached them on the car hauler this afternoon,, between the drizzle. No need to worry, the signs are designed for the inclement weather. And will hold up in the rain.

I centered the ones on the sides over the axles. So it’ll be more noticeable when the film crews are taking pictures of me unloading my show car.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0073.jpg

Straight on view from the side...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0074.jpg

This is what you’ll be looking at when you’re behind my rig...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0080.jpg

Junkman
06-11-2009, 08:42 PM
LOL...Sounds like you speak from experience! :)

Yes......... lots of experience seeing people like you breeze in without reading the whole thread, and then start making comments without regard for all the facts, and then breeze out.

rwhite692
06-11-2009, 09:07 PM
I read the whole thing and I stand by my comments, Thanks!

bgott
06-11-2009, 09:41 PM
I read the whole thing and I stand by my comments, Thanks!

So, even though he told them what he would be hauling, and the dealer and manufacturer are supposed to be the experts, he needs to be an engineer before he buys a trailer, eh? If OCG had just waltzed onto the lot and bought the trailer with out consulting with the so called "experts", it would definitely be on him. I bet you figure that he needs to be an Oncologist and do his own diagnosis before he goes in for cancer surgery.:headscrat

global72
06-11-2009, 09:47 PM
Not that this thing is any of my business but I am just amazed by the lack of customer service. Now I do not think it is reasonable for a company to drop everything and give every customer everything they want. However to have a client that may have a very legit complaint and just be completely unwilling to speak with them is unacceptable.

Even if it is just to say sorry we are standing by our decision and this is why. At least hear someone out.

Art From De Leon
06-11-2009, 10:01 PM
Very Professional. This will further the impression that you are not POed about some minor detail.

Hopefully, you will be able to inform a lot of potential customers at the show, as to the events leading up to this. Perhaps a picture display showing the damage, and how you repaired it.

I wish you luck.

boiler7904
06-11-2009, 10:14 PM
Looks good.

Take photos of the trailer. Mail them to Class(less) Act and tell them you'll be pulling the trailer everywhere you go until they step up to the plate and make things right.

jay50
06-11-2009, 10:22 PM
Looks good.

Take photos of the trailer. Mail them to Class(less) Act and tell them you'll be pulling the trailer everywhere you go until they step up to the plate and make things right.

Yeah, tell CA you are going to give them some free publicity on your trip....:lol_hitti

Dq383500
06-11-2009, 11:08 PM
Read thru all of this,I just can't see a reason why I would want to enclose my ATV other than maybe security,But at best it would be false security,in my book foam and fiberglass just doesn't cut it.Best of luck resolving this problem.PS wish I had a car that warranted an enclosed trailer!

OldCarGuy
06-11-2009, 11:41 PM
Sorry to be throwing a wet blanket on this lynch mob, but....

4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac?

6,000 pound 1930 Packard?

on THAT door???

I think any person would have to be pretty ignorant, to think that a door constructed like that, could even begin to handle those kind of loads.

I had no idea that Class Act was going to supply me with a door constructed like that! The people that are ignorant are from Class Act. They put an ATV Motorcycle ramp door on my “Car Hauler” when they knew that I transport cars. And needed a door to handle 6,000 pound cars.

That is the typical "toy hauler" type of aluminum framed, glass-over-plywood door used for loading motorcycles and ATVs...perfectly suitable for THAT purpose and it is even labeled as such. A light race car in the 3000 pound range, would probably be about the practical limit, for a door like that.

I did not order a “Toy Hauler” nor a “Toy Hauler” ramp door. What I got was a “Car Hauler” with a “Toy Hauler” ramp door. But I paid for a “Car Hauler” with a “Car Hauler” ramp door though!

The dealer clearly did not provide you with a product that met your stated needs. BUT it is still YOUR responsibility to use the product within the limits of it's capability and to use common sense. IMHO, one look at the trailer when you picked it up, should have told the dealer, and you, that this trailer was not set up to do what you need.

Clearly it was Class Act that did not provide me with a product to meet my needs!

Even though the trailer may have a 7K pound total capacity, drop-down loading doors typically don't have anywhere near this capacity. Keep in mind that most race trailers get outfitted with benches/tools/generator/parts/"stuff"/etc, and this is where additional weight capacity is needed, aside from the car in the trailer.

What you need, given the 4500 to 6000 pound weight of the vehicles that you intend to load, is a swing-out split door configuration, (or a lift-up door) and a pair of solidly constructed stowable loading ramps.

I have owned four Haulmark car haulers over the years. And their ramp doors have never failed on me. The engineer’s at Haulmark, that I talked with this week, told me they would never ship a “Car Hauler” with a 10,400 GVW with a door capacity less than 4,000 pounds on a trailer such as mind. In fact a 4,000 pound capacity ramp door would be standard..

This is a clear case of a total mismatch between product and application.

It's not a mismatch of product and application at all. Rather it's a product that was misrepresented to me!



The dealer as well as Class Act knew exactly what my requirements were. I ordered a 8'6" wide by 22' long Flat Front CAR Hauler. To haul cars not ATV’s and Motor Cycles. But I received and paid for a car hauler with a door designed and built only for ATV’s and Motor Cycles.


.

Junkman
06-12-2009, 12:01 AM
In my business life, that spans a period of more than 50 years, I have never mistreated a customer, and I have always done what is necessary to resolve any problems between myself and my customers. I have always gone on the belief that one happy customer will bring you many more, and one unhappy customer will cause you permanent reputation damage. For this reason, I have always dealt with reasonable people reasonably. I always listened to what the customer wanted, and if it was reasonable, I did what was proper. If it was unreasonable, I would work with that customer until we could find a middle ground where we could both agree. This is what is lacking in todays business world. OCG is being reasonable in his requests, and the manufacturer is being unreasonable, and will not even communicate. He exercised do diligence in informing the manufacturer and the dealer of his needs, and how the trailer was going to be used. The manufacturer is at fault here, because they didn't build the unit to the specifications as requested. It is not up to the end user to do the engineering, nor should it be expected of them. It is my guess that in the ordering process, someone dropped the ball and left the door requirement out of the original order or production records. If this matter is to be litigated, then it will be interesting to subpoena the original order records, along with the original production records, to find out where the omission occurred. It is further my guess that it was on the production side where the error occurred. Now, no one wants to take the responsibility to remedy the problem. For any trailer manufacturer to get into a fight with a customer over a $1000 door is ludicrous. They have already damaged their reputation just by this thread staying active. On the other side of the coin are companies such as Bend Pak and Danmar that bend over backward to keep every customer happy, no matter what the issue.

Justanoldguy
06-12-2009, 06:43 AM
Heading towards 10,000 views.
That, in my books, would equate to way more than $1000
damage to their company.

.

Defender Chassis
06-12-2009, 08:15 AM
OCG,

Did you actually talk with anyone at ClassAct before the purchase or did the dealer act as your "agent"? I am wondering if this is not an issue with your dealer. How do you know ClassActs hands are not clean on this? I am assuming you did not actually write a specification and solicit bids per your spec? Just wondering.

OldCarGuy
06-12-2009, 09:42 AM
OCG,

Did you actually talk with anyone at ClassAct before the purchase or did the dealer act as your "agent"? I am wondering if this is not an issue with your dealer. How do you know ClassActs hands are not clean on this? I am assuming you did not actually write a specification and solicit bids per your spec? Just wondering.

In the bidding process I relied on JTI, my dealer, to relay my requirements to Class Act. JTI is a three generation business that has been in the Greater Cleveland area since 1933. And are a reliable dealer that I have worked with for years. I cannot imagine that they didn't fully communicate my needs to Class Act.

Throughout the ordering process, JTI was in close contact with Class Act. I paid Class Act for a number of upgrades and some major design changes to accommodate my cars. I originally had it quoted to have the height increased by 18” along with the lengthening the ramp door. The factory stated, through JTI, a ramp door could be designed and built 12” longer than their standard and still carry the load of my cars. But not 18” as I originally requested. I agreed to the 12” increase if Class Act made that the door opening 7' 5” minimum. Enough to clear the roof of my 7' 4” car. Again I ordered a “Car Hauler.” And if I was only hauling ATV's and Motorcycles, why would I pay and additional $421.00 to increase the height of the trailer 12”, making the door opening to 7' 5”?

There were numerous other items such as winch plates, escape door, wider roadside door, axle upgrades, axle placement, auxiliary battery, interior and exterior lighting requirements, ground clearances, lower wheel well heights, and tongue modifications. That I received answers and pricing for. JTI would not have picked any of the above out of the air.

rwhite692
06-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Well, I can see there's no room for any differing points of view, in this thread.

I think your dealer is the one who bungled the communication with the manufacturer regarding your specific needs and they are now playing dumb.

Word of advice: Next time you buy something this expensive, which as you say has been extensively custom-configured specifically for your particular needs, get your list of requirements, and the vendor's agreement to meet those requirements, down in writing.

Sure would have saved you a lot of mental anguish.

But then again, you seem to really be enjoying all the attention.

Good luck, OCG.

Blk88GT
06-12-2009, 12:04 PM
A few months ago I bought an H+H 24'+V nose flat top car hauler. If you're going to buy another trailer, I suggest you check them out.

My ramp door is made entirely of steel and is Line X'd but does include the "garage door" style cables and spring on the header. There may be an option to eliminate it, I'm not sure.

Of all the trailers I looked at, it was hands down the best quality inside, underneath etc.

http://www.bsronline.net/mig/albums/H%20and%20H/IMG_0927.jpg

It wasn't cheap, but you know just as well that you get what you pay for. I'm sure you'll never take delivery without a top to bottom inspection again.

Skyline
06-12-2009, 01:24 PM
OCG....I hope you somehow get this worked out.

I was just curious about something. You mentioned that you had 4 Haulmark trailers in the past, and were pretty happy with them. Why did you not go to them for this trailer?

jay50
06-12-2009, 01:37 PM
OCG, may I suggestion that on your return trip, you should drive into the dealers lot and discuss the progress with this situation.
Park the trailer at the main store entrance.

I believe this will be settled by the dealer at his expense; too much bad publicitiy eating away at dealer and mfr reputation.

OldCarGuy
06-12-2009, 02:51 PM
Well, I can see there's no room for any differing points of view, in this thread.

There’s a reason for that. Class Act created this whole mess. And it’s up to them to correct it!

I think your dealer is the one who bungled the communication with the manufacturer regarding your specific needs and they are now playing dumb.

Word of advice: Next time you buy something this expensive, which as you say has been extensively custom-configured specifically for your particular needs, get your list of requirements, and the vendor's agreement to meet those requirements, down in writing.

Sure would have saved you a lot of mental anguish.

But then again, you seem to really be enjoying all the attention.

On the contrary, I’m not enjoying the attention at all. If Class Act replaced the ATV ramp door with one that was they should have installed in the first place. I would be posting my praise how they stood behind their work while living up to the words. “At Class Act, We strive to exceed your expectations by producing a trailer of superior strength and durability.” “A company built on the fundemental belief of providing the best product to our customers at a reasonable price.” “Service and support are not just “buzz words”, they are the thread of integrity that we live by.”


Good luck, OCG. Thanks rwhite,, everyone looses when there's a dispute...No matter how it turns out :thumbup:

A few months ago I bought an H+H 24'+V nose flat top car hauler. If you're going to buy another trailer, I suggest you check them out.

My ramp door is made entirely of steel and is Line X'd but does include the "garage door" style cables and spring on the header. There may be an option to eliminate it, I'm not sure.

Of all the trailers I looked at, it was hands down the best quality inside, underneath etc.

http://www.bsronline.net/mig/albums/H%20and%20H/IMG_0927.jpg

It wasn't cheap, but you know just as well that you get what you pay for. I'm sure you'll never take delivery without a top to bottom inspection again.

They make an outstanding trailer. But they don’t have a dealer near me.

OCG....I hope you somehow get this worked out.

I was just curious about something. You mentioned that you had 4 Haulmark trailers in the past, and were pretty happy with them. Why did you not go to them for this trailer?

When driving by JTI, the Class Act Car Hauler caught my eye. And figured it may just be time for an upgrade. After all my Haulmark was ten years old. But by no means worn out,, was well used. Though it was in nice enough shape that a buyer paid me $7,250.00 for it. The rest is history. If I knew then that they installed an underrated ramp door, along with the other factory mishaps, I would have never taken delivery.

OCG, may I suggestion that on your return trip, you should drive into the dealers lot and discuss the progress with this situation.
Park the trailer at the main store entrance.

I believe this will be settled by the dealer at his expense; too much bad publicitiy eating away at dealer and mfr reputation.

The good people at JTI, as well a I, are concerned about the bad rap JTI may be having over all this. However they are going out of their way to resolve Class Act’s unrealistic attitude. And are in touch with me. They at least value my business, and appreciate me as a customer!

OldCarGuy
06-12-2009, 06:38 PM
I spent all week cleaning up and getting my car ready for the upcoming show this weekend. If you live in or around Cincinnati, Ohio. Don't miss The 32nd Anniversary Ault Park Concours d'Elegance on Sunday June 14.. http://www.cincyconcours.com/ My 1933 Buick 88C Convertible Phaeton was invited this year. She’s as stylish today and turns heads now as much as when she first rolled off the assembly line, some 75 years ago.

This is the car that per say, “Broke the camel’s back!” :mad:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0126.jpg

When I return, I’ll post a complete account about the show. Along with a full review of my 1933 Buick. Including a test drive down memory lane..... :beer:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0105.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0100.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0102.jpg

.

Junkman
06-12-2009, 07:56 PM
Amazing how far Buick came in 5 years when I think back at my 1928 Buick having wooden artillery wheels and a nickeled grille shell with a honeycomb radiator. Yours is a beautiful car. Have you owned it very long? :thumbup:

Art From De Leon
06-12-2009, 08:34 PM
Beautiful Automobile, you were very lucky that it was not damaged when the door/ramp collapsed.

jake00
06-12-2009, 10:22 PM
make sure the camera crews get shots of you "supplementing" the door with lumber as you unload it.

I still think the dealer dropped the ball by:

Taking delivery of a defective product and then selling the same defective product to a customer.

The trailer should have never made it to you.

Justanoldguy
06-13-2009, 07:13 AM
But then again, you seem to really be enjoying all the attention.



Hmm.
I wonder where a smart assed reply like that would have come from.
Surely not from this thread, from what I have read. :(

.

Ramblur
06-13-2009, 08:29 AM
That is one beautiful Buick!:bowdown:

bmwpower
06-13-2009, 09:12 AM
Now I know why you take that to shows. And coule be me, but it seems like all the cars of that vintage AREN'T red, so kudos to you for having a unique one....again unless I'm totally off here...just my perception.

Junkman
06-13-2009, 09:34 AM
That isn't red!!!!!!!!!!! It is maroon...... There is a differance.... :lol_hitti

redsky49
06-13-2009, 09:35 AM
Now I know why you take that to shows. And coule be me, but it seems like all the cars of that vintage AREN'T red, so kudos to you for having a unique one....again unless I'm totally off here...just my perception.

Stunning indeed, but I would guess that the color is not red (that's way too ordinary) but instead something like raspberry frape :bounce:

Too bad he will be rolling up to the car show in his sign covered broken trailer. At this point I would be more concerned to any possible damage to his car when loading and unloading with this trailer. Be careful.

I am guessing that this is a restoration. Done by the OP or someone else?

redsky49
06-13-2009, 09:39 AM
Actually, it looks more like claret.

sammerdog
06-13-2009, 11:01 AM
Beautiful car, OCG, absolutely beautiful. Any chance of an interior picture or two?

alohavw
06-13-2009, 10:08 PM
Keep us informed on any updates as I will share this thread with the forums I frequent.

checkthisout
06-15-2009, 05:45 AM
I read the whole thing and I stand by my comments, Thanks!


All hail to Captain know-it-all. :bowdown: rwhite692

I figured your second post would be an apology for being so drunk when you made the first post.

Anyways,

Good luck OCG in getting them to fix their mistake. I bet they are about to go under as RV manufacturers are dropping like flies in this business environment. I bet that is why they aren't and WILL NOT replace the door free of charge.

nissan_crawler
06-15-2009, 06:08 AM
Sorry to be throwing a wet blanket on this lynch mob, but....

4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac?

6,000 pound 1930 Packard?

on THAT door???

I think any person would have to be pretty ignorant, to think that a door constructed like that, could even begin to handle those kind of loads.

That is the typical "toy hauler" type of aluminum framed, glass-over-plywood door used for loading motorcycles and ATVs...perfectly suitable for THAT purpose and it is even labeled as such. A light race car in the 3000 pound range, would probably be about the practical limit, for a door like that.

The dealer clearly did not provide you with a product that met your stated needs. BUT it is still YOUR responsibility to use the product within the limits of it's capability and to use common sense. IMHO, one look at the trailer when you picked it up, should have told the dealer, and you, that this trailer was not set up to do what you need.

I'm not surprised that the trailer manufacturer is only offering to replace the door for $1K.

Even though the trailer may have a 7K pound total capacity, drop-down loading doors typically don't have anywhere near this capacity. Keep in mind that most race trailers get outfitted with benches/tools/generator/parts/"stuff"/etc, and this is where additional weight capacity is needed, aside from the car in the trailer.

What you need, given the 4500 to 6000 pound weight of the vehicles that you intend to load, is a swing-out split door configuration, (or a lift-up door) and a pair of solidly constructed stowable loading ramps.

As someone else previously stated, you also need to ensure that the floor of the trailer is constructed to bear these kind of loads (as in, 6000 pounds /four tire contact patches).

This is a clear case of a total mismatch between product and application.

-Flame suit on.

If a trailer is rated for 7000 pounds of cargo, then it's floor and the only means of getting cargo into the trailer, better damn well take the weight, or be placarded otherwise, which it wasn't. Anything else is flat retarded, and negligent.

Oh, and many offroaders run 4-6K# rigs inside toyhaulers with a door like that. The door style isn't the problem, the flawed design is.

To rate a hauler for 7,000 pounds and the door for 2500 is just stupid. How many people bring their vehicles in in pieces? Hell, how many vehicles, even race ones, are under 2500 pounds?

Crappy trailer, crappy engineering, crappy negligence. Even with that 6000 pound packard, that door is more or less only 500 pounds over it's design limit, which by all rights, it shouldn't fail at, so again, it's a piece of shit, plain and simple.

I've had 10k pound vehicles on the ramps for my 7k TOTAL trailer. They haven't flinched.

This is trailer manufacturer #2, that I won't touch now.

NewCarGuy
06-15-2009, 07:55 AM
I read the whole thread. I can't believe you owned the trailer for two years and never seen the 2500 lb. capacity label.

(OCY,you have had the trailer for almost two years, is this the first time you attempted to load the 6000 lb. object?)

OCY, I don't think you are telling the whole story, things just don't add up, no complaints for two years, until now.

mmg440
06-15-2009, 08:35 AM
I read the whole thread. I can't believe you owned the trailer for two years and never seen the 2500 lb. capacity label.

(OCY,you have had the trailer for almost two years, is this the first time you attempted to load the 6000 lb. object?)

OCY, I don't think you are telling the whole story, things just don't add up, no complaints for two years, until now.

I think he is telling the whole story but maybe some have to stop reading between the lines. First read the actual words he posted before and not others opinions of the words about what he posted..:wtf:

He did have a complaint. He had contected them telling them how much it bowed and he was told it was considered normal!



Taken from orginal posters first post on this!
Early on after delivery I voiced my concern to JTI about how the door would bend when I drive my 4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac in. Lest my 6,000 pound 1930 Packard. I was assured that was not a concern. The “Class Act” people designed the most durable car hauler ever produced... The flex was normal and would straighten out. A week ago I loaded a 6,000 pound car into the trailer that proved to be more than their ramp door could handle. That permanently left a 2” bow in the ramp door. And I can no longer close the door.

bgott
06-15-2009, 10:07 AM
Hmm, it sounds like NewCarGuy might be someone from the manufacturer that doesn't have balls enough to identify themselves.:wtf:

Jaguar Fan
06-15-2009, 10:17 AM
NewCarGuy, if you re-read OCG's postings, you see he had the factory specifically enhance the design for OCG's intended use, including the weight. It is inconceivable that Class Act's engineers were unable to say to themselves "OCG plans to haul cars, not ATVs, so we better make sure the door-ramp works for cars."

I wonder of Class Act even HAS any engineers - or if it is just a bunch of good ol' boys who design by Kentucky-windage. Wait - that's a slap in the face to anyone from Kentucky and anyone who is a good ol' boy.

Class Act, as any manufacturer of a high-end product, needs to step up and do the right thing. The right thing is NOT getting an F in customer service.

OldCarGuy
06-15-2009, 10:45 AM
I read the whole thread. I can't believe you owned the trailer for two years and never seen the 2500 lb. capacity label.

(OCY,you have had the trailer for almost two years, is this the first time you attempted to load the 6000 lb. object?)

OCY, I don't think you are telling the whole story, things just don't add up, no complaints for two years, until now.

NewCarGuy:

I don't know about the rest of the Garage Journal Member's may think. But I'm not impressed. First of you just register and your first post just so happens to come out questioning my credibility. Smells of dead fish to me. You could at least have come up with a more original handle! Then again,, it maybe just another Class Act move.

But I want to thank you anyhow for your effort. However I will allow the other members chin in on you...

OldCarGuy
06-15-2009, 11:52 AM
I just returned from the Ault Park Concours d'Elegance early this morning. And had the chance to meet several Garage Journal members at the show yesterday. Along with many other long time antique car enthusiasts I've known for many years.. :beer:

My 1933 Buick came away with a First place ribbon and crystal trophy. :thumbup:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0293.jpg

You wouldn't believe how many car enthusiasts came by to discuss my trailer. The signs caught their eyes, and several dozen immediately flocked by to discover first hand my problems with my trailer. And couldn't believe their eyes that I had to block up the door and run planks over the ramp door!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0190.jpg

There were over 100 car haulers of every type and price there. Over the two days, I took the time to speak with many of the trailer owners. Not one said they had a door fail. None paid anything extra for their ramp door. And all voiced that they would expect the factory's ramp door had better carry the weight of any car that would fit inside! “After all that's why it's called a Car Hauler!” It's not used to carry marshmallows

The show was fantastic. With hundreds of cars, old and new. Something to satisfy everyone's taste. I'll post more about the show elsewhere when I have the time. But here's a few pictures to wet your appetite...

Over view of one field.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0198.jpg

My Favorite 1904 Premier. A four cylinder air cooled chain drive beauty

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0231.jpg


There were many Indian Motorcycles... This one is a 1938 Four Cylinder...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0249.jpg

1938 Mercedes-Benz 540 K
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0291.jpg

1935 Mercedes-Benz 500 K
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0285.jpg


2000 BMW Z8
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0281.jpg


On Saturday's country side tour around Cincinnati. We stopped to see a private collection of what must have been a hundred tractors of all sizes. The largest was this 1911 International Harvester Mogel. The drive wheels are over six feet tall. And is powered by two apposed cylinders, with a 10” bore and 12” stroke! I have a number of video clips of this one and several other running! That I'll share with you later in another section.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0129.jpg

Defender Chassis
06-15-2009, 11:56 AM
I think NCG has a point. Not sure if he is from ClassAct or just some other member not willing to put his/her reputation on Garage Journal at stake for having an opposing viewpoint.

Facts are:
Door was labled for 2500 lb.
Did not fail during first two years of use.
Manufacturer willing to provide a replacement for what is likely at cost.
No documentation to support claim request was made for a door to handle heavier weight.

I am not convinced on who is actually at fault but I am leaning towaqrd the dealer for not covering all bases. It is entirely possible that the dealer said what neded to be said for the sale to happen. My $0.02

35mastr
06-15-2009, 02:48 PM
I read the whole thread. I can't believe you owned the trailer for two years and never seen the 2500 lb. capacity label.

(OCY,you have had the trailer for almost two years, is this the first time you attempted to load the 6000 lb. object?)

OCY, I don't think you are telling the whole story, things just don't add up, no complaints for two years, until now.

Funny I smell a rat here. No intro. Then you just happen to stumble on this post for your first reply. Why dont you identify yourself. If you are from Class Act I would like to hear your side of the story regarding this issue.

Bottom line is that OCG paid for a trailer to be built to his specs and it was not.

JB740i
06-15-2009, 04:57 PM
Sure looks that way doesn't it.

Cobra5150
06-15-2009, 06:40 PM
Hey OCG, I just posted this on another forum:
http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220726
A lot of these guys have plenty of income and like their toys. They appreciated the input. Also there are guys that are in various monthly print media (car magazines) that also read that and will help spread the word. Hopefully it'll work out for you eventually.

BTW- Nice cars!


I just looked through your pics, Congrats onthe 1st place.

HOTFR8
06-15-2009, 08:38 PM
I read the whole thread. I can't believe you owned the trailer for two years and never seen the 2500 lb. capacity label.

(OCY,you have had the trailer for almost two years, is this the first time you attempted to load the 6000 lb. object?)

OCY, I don't think you are telling the whole story, things just don't add up, no complaints for two years, until now.

Funny I smell a rat here. No intro. Then you just happen to stumble on this post for your first reply. Why dont you identify yourself. If you are from Class Act I would like to hear your side of the story regarding this issue.

Bottom line is that OCG paid for a trailer to be built to his specs and it was not.

I have to agree with 35mastr. Bottom line is what OCG paid for and if not the specification he paid for then some one is at fault. We did see how the lables got hidden.

OCG was lucky that ramp door lasted that long before it failed.

NCG if you are from the trailer company just fix the problem and make it right then the issue will go away. Fixing the issue now would be a good thing and give your company back some credability. Wouldn't you prefer this topic to praise the companies workmanship and dealings and not read like it does now ?

Art From De Leon
06-15-2009, 09:44 PM
"Also there are guys that are in various monthly print media (car magazines) that also read that and will help spread the word."

I wouldn't put much faith in these people running the risk of pissing off an advertiser, or potential advertiser.
They will shill for, and make excuses to justify anything they test, or promote.

jake00
06-15-2009, 10:11 PM
I added this thread to my signature on ford-trucks.com where I have some 12k posts



I still think the dealer dropped the ball

bmwpower
06-15-2009, 10:15 PM
Oh man, congrats on the first place!

Looks like a lot of BMWs were there, too.

rsanter
06-16-2009, 01:10 AM
I have been reading this post but have yet to comment on it....untill now

OCG
that is a really nice car you have there, I love it
also I am sorry that you are having trouble with the purchase of the trailer.

I will say a couple of things from my point of view. I mean no disrespect to anyone, its just my opinion.

OCG, I would look at the spec on the paperwork on the purchase of the trailer. if you ordered or specified anything special then I would want to have it clearly specified on the purchase agreement. yes I know its easy for me to say it now after the fact...but I did say it was just my opinion.

on another point. I used to be an application engineer for a manufacturing company. for those of you that do not know what that is, I was the guy that created the specifications for the products as well as determining the proper usage of the products as well as the exclusions of usage.
on this same note, I was also the guy that dealt with the lawers and insurance companies if and when our parts failed.
when someone wanted to use our product in a way other than specified, I was the guy that the customer was refered to in order to determine if the customers application was acceptable. if I found it to be acceptable I would issue a letter saying so and then I would add that usage to the specification (if it was justified by me thinking that there would be a number of others with the same question)
a company has to do its 'due dillagence' to make a product that will handle all reasonable usages and clearly exclude any unacceptable usages.
from my point of view, I would have pushed the product managers that if the ramp was of size to have a car on it then I would have pushed that it would be able to handle the weight of a car and I would have pushed that the max weight be clearly labeled on the inside of the door where it would be obvious and easy to see.
if it was configured to be able to hold a car in it, I would be dam well sure that it can handle it and have a fair safety margin.

every one of the products I dealt with had a cosmos analisis(CAD, finite element analisis), engineering analisis (an engineer doing old fashion calculations) and a load test which included a failure test. depending on the product, it was expected to handle 1.5 to 2.5 the rated load for me to sign off on it.

one of the products I worked on (and helped design) was an H-20 plastic meter box lid.
that means a plastic lid for a ground (burried) meter box that would pass a load test of 20,800lbs on a 9x9 load area.
a couple of the most common sizes were tested and did not fail untill around 60,000lbs (and this was made of plastic remember).
the reason for the large safety margin was that the product will degrade over the years of use and exposure and I specified a usable live of 10 years.
some of you might think that was overkill, but I was protecting the company from future liability issues. that was about 5 years ago and I still have yet to hear of any failuers with the lids.
and yes, they are made in Central California USA.

my insistance on testing all products and testing to failure so we can see where the failure point was and what the mode of failure was earned me the unofficial title of 'Manager of breaking shit'.
this was based on a comment my boss made to me, he said 'no matter what it is, you always manage find a way to break it'

good luck with your battle OCG

bob

-B-
06-16-2009, 02:03 AM
I read the whole thread. I can't believe you owned the trailer for two years and never seen the 2500 lb. capacity label.

(OCY,you have had the trailer for almost two years, is this the first time you attempted to load the 6000 lb. object?)

OCY, I don't think you are telling the whole story, things just don't add up, no complaints for two years, until now.



Did you now !
Have you knowledge that you have executive function disabilities? Because your reading comprehension is very low some where in the first few years of grade school

nissan_crawler
06-16-2009, 02:09 AM
I read the whole thread. I can't believe you owned the trailer for two years and never seen the 2500 lb. capacity label.

(OCY,you have had the trailer for almost two years, is this the first time you attempted to load the 6000 lb. object?)

OCY, I don't think you are telling the whole story, things just don't add up, no complaints for two years, until now.

Obviously you didn't read it well. THE LABEL WAS NEVER THERE. Again, you didn't read well, as it wasn't the first time he loaded it.

Obviously, you have no clue about engineering, or common sense. Just because a bridge will hold the first 20,000# truck, doesn't mean it will hold the next 100 20,000# trucks.

The door didn't break for two years, now it did. Why would he complain about a door that broke when it wasn't broken then? :headscrat Duh.

I think you're a Class Act troll, personally.

I think NCG has a point. Not sure if he is from ClassAct or just some other member not willing to put his/her reputation on Garage Journal at stake for having an opposing viewpoint.

Facts are:
Door was labled for 2500 lb.
Did not fail during first two years of use.
Manufacturer willing to provide a replacement for what is likely at cost.
No documentation to support claim request was made for a door to handle heavier weight.

I am not convinced on who is actually at fault but I am leaning towaqrd the dealer for not covering all bases. It is entirely possible that the dealer said what neded to be said for the sale to happen. My $0.02

Umm..again, unless i really missed something, the door was NOT labeled for 2500 lbs. Again, even IF it was....that 6,000# car is putting roughly 3,000 lbs on that door at a time. Are you telling me a door rated for 2500 lbs fails at 3,000? If so, that's crappy engineering with a safety factor so slim.

Who cares if it took two years for the door to fail, the f'ker is still broken, isn't it?

Providing at cost when their p.o.s. failed in the first place? Gee, that's mighty white of them.

There's no documentation to prove that trailer had a 2500 lb door either, what's your point?


My 7500gcw trailer weighs around 2k...giving me 5500#'s of capacity. Guess what? It's had 10,000#'s ON it (not including trailer weight), several times (although not on purpose, found out later when weighed). Zero problems. The ramps have had an 10k+ vehicle on them several times. Zero problems. Why? It was built well with a safety factor.

Defender Chassis
06-16-2009, 08:04 AM
Obviously you didn't read it well. THE LABEL WAS NEVER THERE. Again, you didn't read well, as it wasn't the first time he loaded it.

Either you did not read well or the post was deleted but at one time OCG stated he found the lable on the edge of the door.

Obviously, you have no clue about engineering, or common sense. Just because a bridge will hold the first 20,000# truck, doesn't mean it will hold the next 100 20,000# trucks.

Maybe you do not have clue about engineering. I am a licensed Mechanical Engineer and have no idea why if loaded the same way every time that if a bridge can support a 20k# truck that it should not do the same for the 100th truck. Fatigue failure does not play a part until well over 100k cycles. I supose that there are a variety of other issues like environmental that play a part. The fact that the gate was composite also leads me to more questions but none the less your argument is weak.

The door didn't break for two years, now it did. Why would he complain about a door that broke when it wasn't broken then? :headscrat Duh.

I think you're a Class Act troll, personally.



Umm..again, unless i really missed something, the door was NOT labeled for 2500 lbs. Again, even IF it was....that 6,000# car is putting roughly 3,000 lbs on that door at a time. Are you telling me a door rated for 2500 lbs fails at 3,000? If so, that's crappy engineering with a safety factor so slim.

Who cares if it took two years for the door to fail, the f'ker is still broken, isn't it?

Providing at cost when their p.o.s. failed in the first place? Gee, that's mighty white of them.

There's no documentation to prove that trailer had a 2500 lb door either, what's your point?


My 7500gcw trailer weighs around 2k...giving me 5500#'s of capacity. Guess what? It's had 10,000#'s ON it (not including trailer weight), several times (although not on purpose, found out later when weighed). Zero problems. The ramps have had an 10k+ vehicle on them several times. Zero problems. Why? It was built well with a safety factor.


Again, this is just my $0.02 but I have not seen any proof that ClassAct even knew what OCG actually wanted. In fact, I believe it would be unlikely for them to ok his use for one sale since they obviously knew the capacityof the door was 2500lb. On the other hand, it is likely the salesman may have fudged it a bit for one sale. Fact is that I really do not know what actually went down and since there is only one side posted in this thread nobody else does either. If in fact OCG is taking a beating, I hope this gets resolved to his satisfaction.

jake00
06-16-2009, 08:20 AM
Obviously you didn't read it well. THE LABEL WAS NEVER THERE. Again, you didn't read well, as it wasn't the first time he loaded it.



Umm..again, unless i really missed something, the door was NOT labeled for 2500 lbs.

post 104
<fillller>

Bull
06-16-2009, 09:42 AM
NewCarGuy's pidgin-English mimics that found in the e-mail reply from ClassAct to the member here who posted his e-mail correspondence with that company. How odd. :lol_hitti

A gigantic trailer with a 7k lb capacity, custom-ordered by a guy who wants to move cars, and it can only handle ATVs? What a joke.

OCG, I hope you get this resolved. Despite what the one or two oddballs in this thread say, you are in the right.

OldCarGuy
06-16-2009, 10:06 AM
Again, this is just my $0.02 but I have not seen any proof that ClassAct even knew what OCG actually wanted. In fact, I believe it would be unlikely for them to ok his use for one sale since they obviously knew the capacityof the door was 2500lb. On the other hand, it is likely the salesman may have fudged it a bit for one sale. Fact is that I really do not know what actually went down and since there is only one side posted in this thread nobody else does either. If in fact OCG is taking a beating, I hope this gets resolved to his satisfaction.

post 104
<fillller>


Yes the ramp door has a label. It was hidden on the edge of the door near the top. And blended in with the aluminum frame with small lettering made it unnoticeable. Neither the dealer nor I noticed it before I made the temporary repairs. A side note though, JTI has another similar Class Act trailer on his lot that does not have a capacity label on it. And the door looks as if it's undesigned as well. Should be interesting for the poor guy that purchased it!

But it did fail well within Class Act's three year's structural failure warranty period. The door is made with a foam plastic core sandwiched between two sheets of 1/4” plywood. Repeated use weakened the integrity of the door until it could no longer handle a load and failed.

$1,000.00 for a door cheap? A fella I met this weekend purchased a brand new 2008 AllPro 24' car hauler with double 5200 pound axles for less than $4,500.00 last year. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290323057379#shId That he drives cars over his ramp without a problem. And Class Act whats a forth that amount to replace a door that clearly in under-designed for a “Car Hauler!”

You're missing the point. I ordered a custom built trailer from Class Act to haul cars. With options, upgrades, and design changes to accommodate my cars. Besides knowing that I was going to drive cars over the ramp door. Any decent trailer manufacturer would know by the way deviated from their standard “Car Hauler” would know that cars would be driven over the ramp door. And not put an ATV / Motorcycle ramp door on it!


Here's a picture where the label is inconspicuously placed. Can you see it?

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3714.jpg

Wouldn't you think a warning label should be a little more conspicuous and in a place where it is actually visible? Similar to the two warning labels they installed on the outside of the ramp door right above the locking handles...... Even with my large RED WARNING sign I placed on the door, you can still make them out!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF0080.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3679.jpg

Junkman
06-16-2009, 10:13 AM
NewCarGuy:

I don't know about the rest of the Garage Journal Member's may think. But I'm not impressed. First of you just register and your first post just so happens to come out questioning my credibility. Smells of dead fish to me. You could at least have come up with a more original handle! Then again,, it maybe just another Class less Act move.
But I want to thank you anyhow for your effort. However I will allow the other members chin in on you...

I have to agree with 35mastr. Bottom line is what OCG paid for and if not the specification he paid for then some one is at fault. We did see how the lables got hidden.

OCG was lucky that ramp door lasted that long before it failed.

NCG if you are from the trailer company just fix the problem and make it right then the issue will go away. Fixing the issue now would be a good thing and give your company back some credability. Wouldn't you prefer this topic to praise the companies workmanship and dealings and not read like it does now ?

Once a company looses its credibility, they can't get it back by correcting at a later date, what they should have corrected immediately. We have seen this time and again, where only pressure from the public makes a company reverse previously made incorrect decisions. It might save them some additional grief, but in the end run, it lessens peoples overall image of the company.

slicktoptt
06-16-2009, 10:41 AM
Allpro makes some great trailers. I live in Jacksonville, FL where they have a facility and dealer and bought a 16ft equipment and car trailer. By comparison to other trailers I looked at they are over engineered and cost about the same as lesser offerings.

Another trailer co wanted to sell me a 16ft single axle without e-brakes for the same price as what I paid for the Allpro with dual axles and e-brakes. I asked the Allpro dealer if they made a 16ft single axle equipment trailer. His reply was "No, all our 16ft and over trailers are dual axle and have e-brakes because we know someone will do something stupid with it." That sold me because I felt like they were not going to compromise their trailers just to try and make something a little cheaper.

Everyone that has seen my trailer has commented on how well built it is.

Just food for thought for anyone that may be reading this and considering what company makes a quality product.

Defender Chassis
06-16-2009, 04:17 PM
Repeated use weakened the integrity of the door until it could no longer handle a load and failed.


You have no basis for this comment. Your original post states that the door did not fail until you loaded a heavier car. Just because it flexed before with the "4,500 pound 1914 Cadillac" does not mean it was causing damage. Especially since it evidently returned to its original position or else I am sure you would have complained 2 years ago about a warped door and not waited until you loaded the 6000 lb car and had the door fail completely.

You state you ordered a "custom built trailer" but you dont have anything detailing the specs you desired. I do construction administration for a living. The rule of thumb is that if it is not on paper then it did not happen. Look at this from the trailer companies side. They build a fine product (per your original thread about this trailer) that has some limitations as does all products. One day some guy wants a new door or all his money back because he says he did not know about those limitations and overloaded the original door. The guy says the dealer told him it would be ok. There is no record that the dealer stated this nor confered with the trailer company about it.

That trailer would have not had any issues with anything I haul. My heaviest race car is in the neighborhood of 3k lbs. I am sure that one end is under the 2k lb capacity of that door with the two contact patches. You stated you hauled a 4500 lb car and the door flexed but did not fail. If you account for only half the weight of that car on each end (2250lb), which is obviously not realistic, then the door performed as intended. You are right that this is a car hauler but you do not haul typical cars. My Dodge Dually only weighs slightly more than your Packard. In fact, I would bet that if you load up that 6k lb beauty and take into account the cabinets, winch, tools, bike etc.... you are actually overloading that piece of equpment. I would never run that closse to the trailers capacity. My trailer has twin 7k lb axles and my usual race car weighs 1500 lb.

OCG, I think you are a fine fella and I admire your shop and cars but I think you MAY be on the wrong track. I think it may be that a dealer told you what you wanted to hear. My $0.02

OldCarGuy
06-16-2009, 04:39 PM
No matter what. No trailer manufacturer should put a flimsy ATV / Motorcycle ramp door on any trailer that they call a Car Hauler. Particularly when they knew that I transport 6,000 pounds cars in it.

With Class Acts' misrepresentation, I had better check the tire ratings. After all I didn't spec out the tires. Just the Dexter 5,200 pound axle ratings.


The warning label states a maximum 1,000 pounds per wheel contact. Each of my 4,500 pound car wheels exceeds that!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3712.jpg

I'm not a structural engineer. But with my Life's worth of experience, and seeing how this door was constructed, I stated that the door was weakened with repeated use.

I have a call into my dealer to see just what documentation of the specifications that was passed onto Class Act.

HOTFR8
06-16-2009, 08:25 PM
Once a company looses its credibility, they can't get it back by correcting at a later date, what they should have corrected immediately. We have seen this time and again, where only pressure from the public makes a company reverse previously made incorrect decisions. It might save them some additional grief, but in the end run, it lessens peoples overall image of the company.

Yes, point taken. Still if they fix the problem and OCG then posts how they look after him it would give something back to the fact they did try to right a wrong.

At this point it looks like they will not help OCG and again I have to say Good luck.

must8657
06-16-2009, 09:55 PM
Again, this is just my $0.02 but I have not seen any proof that ClassAct even knew what OCG actually wanted. In fact, I believe it would be unlikely for them to ok his use for one sale since they obviously knew the capacityof the door was 2500lb. On the other hand, it is likely the salesman may have fudged it a bit for one sale. Fact is that I really do not know what actually went down and since there is only one side posted in this thread nobody else does either. If in fact OCG is taking a beating, I hope this gets resolved to his satisfaction.
"Maybe you do not have clue about engineering. I am a licensed Mechanical Engineer and have no idea why if loaded the same way every time that if a bridge can support a 20k# truck that it should not do the same for the 100th truck. Fatigue failure does not play a part until well over 100k cycles. I supose that there are a variety of other issues like environmental that play a part. The fact that the gate was composite also leads me to more questions but none the less your argument is weak."

I am not sure who made this statement, but this can't be from an actual Mechanical Engineer. How can you make a blanket statement that fatigue doesn't play a factor until well after 100k cycles?
jason

38Chevy454
06-17-2009, 12:29 AM
Well I am a metallurgical engineer, and all of you are not using the term "fatigue" properly.

Fatigue in metal is a cyclic cracking while loaded under the material's yield strength. For most metals the normal fatigue limit is 100,000 plus cycles. This is called high cycle low stress fatigue. There is also low cycle high stress fatigue where you can get cracking as low as 100 cycles. But the main point is that any fatigue will show up as cracks that initiate and propagate. OCG's ramp door did not crack, it simply yielded. Or in technical terms, it has permanent plastic deformation, caused by the applied stress exceeding the yield strength of the door material. It does not have fatigue. Metal fatigue is not like your muscles where the material is weaker. You all need to understand the proper terminology.

Justanoldguy
06-17-2009, 02:32 AM
Well I am a metallurgical engineer, and all of you are not using the term "fatigue" properly.



"All of you" ??

I don't think so.
The word fatigue has been hardly mentioned and certainly not by "all of you"..

Pendantic? maybe... :wtf:

sirswank
06-17-2009, 09:02 AM
Well I am a metallurgical engineer, and all of you are not using the term "fatigue" properly.

Fatigue in metal is a cyclic cracking while loaded under the material's yield strength. For most metals the normal fatigue limit is 100,000 plus cycles. This is called high cycle low stress fatigue. There is also low cycle high stress fatigue where you can get cracking as low as 100 cycles. But the main point is that any fatigue will show up as cracks that initiate and propagate. OCG's ramp door did not crack, it simply yielded. Or in technical terms, it has permanent plastic deformation, caused by the applied stress exceeding the yield strength of the door material. It does not have fatigue. Metal fatigue is not like your muscles where the material is weaker. You all need to understand the proper terminology.

regardless of this, the issue is that the door was never built for the rating it was requested for.

this is defender chassi's argument, whether there is actual documentation that the door was requested to hold a larger load rating than "stock", regardless of OCG's requests to the dealer.

altho, as a "metallurgical engineer", you should know that aluminum can "fatigue" and fail over time even if a load below it's rating is applied constantly over a period of time. so yes, the metal does get weaker.
as far as a composite door, have you ever streched a rubber band a few times? is it looser then when new afterwards? repeated use causes failure. always. the only variable factor is the time it takes.

OldCarGuy
06-17-2009, 10:10 AM
"Maybe you do not have clue about engineering. I am a licensed Mechanical Engineer and have no idea why if loaded the same way every time that if a bridge can support a 20k# truck that it should not do the same for the 100th truck. Fatigue failure does not play a part until well over 100k cycles. I supose that there are a variety of other issues like environmental that play a part. The fact that the gate was composite also leads me to more questions but none the less your argument is weak."

I am not sure who made this statement, but this can't be from an actual Mechanical Engineer. How can you make a blanket statement that fatigue doesn't play a factor until well after 100k cycles?
jason

I believe that that Defender Chassis added that red paragraph to Nissan_Crawler's quote. I'm not going to challenge who is or isn't a Mechanical Engineer around here. But I can say I have an older brother that is a practicing Professional Engineer. That cannot design his way out of a wet paper bag!

Anyhow we are not talking about bridges built out of steel. But when building out of steel. There is always a safety factor involved. Somewhere between two to five fold its' rated capacity. Just ask Jeff at BendPak.. So this door should hold not fail until at least 5,000 pounds was applied. Or maybe even 12,500 pounds. This door never experienced that kind of weight!

Again, I don't pretend to be a Structural Engineer. But I do have a life long experience of what works and what doesn't work. Plus my background has been in and around plastics. The door is nothing more than a center foam plastic core sandwiched between two pieces of 1/4” plywood. That has two outside edges of aluminum extrusions for strength. And like I mentioned earlier, it is my belief that the door's integrity was severely weaken after repeated use. That flexing caused cellular core to break down. More so than a rubber band losing its' elasticity with repeated use.

Again,, Class Act advertises my trailer as a Flat Front Car Hauler. And the ramp door they provided should handle cars driving over it! And not put an ATV/Motorcycle rated door!

OldCarGuy
06-17-2009, 11:47 AM
I stopped off at JTI this morning with my Class Act Car hauler just before opening time. It was a few minutes before opening time. And I parked my rig in front and sat down on the comfortable seat next to the door. And watched all that that passed by stopping to read the signs on my trailer..

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3777.jpg

Just happens that they had a trailer on the lot that was made a month after mine was. Someone purchased it, and when the city came down on the owner for parking it next to his home. He sold it back to JTI.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3784.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3781.jpg

Comparing my car hauler to this one. Mind you this trailer was made a month after mine. And the ramp door doesn't resemble my door. On one of the few times I was able to reach Class Act, they told me they quit using Nappanee Door for what ever reason. But it must have been in that one month time period. One must wonder why they switched? Still trying to get in touch with engineers or owner of Nappanee...

Take a look at the differences. First off it seems a lot stiffer than mine ever was when you walk on it. And they went back to the cables! Have to wonder why? Yet today, by their Website, they claim their ramp doors do not use them. And there are NO warning labels on the door that I could find..

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3780.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3779.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3778.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c239/OldCarGuy_1955/DSCF3783.jpg

tyrell2004
06-17-2009, 01:23 PM
Just a thought;

Are the specs as discussed written on your contract between yourself and the dealer?, if yes, great. if not written, your bad.

Ask to see your dealer's purchase order given to Class Act. If it does not include a written description of all the specs as discussed by all parties then the fault lies with the dealer for not putting everything in writing and to you for not verifying that.
Without the specs written on the " contract" between your dealer and Class Act, it comes down to a "he said /I said".

If the PO does not have all your specs, then lesson learned, offer to split the cost of the upgraded door three ways.
Get some sleep at night, avoid the ulcer and show off that Beautiful car.

1.Dealer did not write it down or mislead you (oops). 33%

2.You did not verify the written specs, (trusted Verbal agreement) oops. 33%

3.Class act didn't think about how other changes(if written) might affect ramp/door requirements or just screwed up and should save face. (oops) 33%.

If the specs are written down on the P.O.and sales contract take it to small claims name both the Dealer and Class Act in the suit.

However, if I was a business owner, if I was Class act I would have upgraded your door long ago. Stated my case as the manufacturer here and try to get cust satisfaction.
And then offer GJ members discounts on car haulers with extra strong ramps. ;)

And if I, Class Act knew specs were not on the Purchase Order, gone after your dealer for half of the cost.

Mistakes are made; we are all human, our character is determined by what we do when we admit those mistakes.
My two cents.
Good Luck.

Mike83
06-17-2009, 01:53 PM
[QUOTE=sirswank;512488]altho, as a "metallurgical engineer", you should know that aluminum can "fatigue" and fail over time even if a load below it's rating is applied constantly over a period of time. so yes, the metal does get weaker. QUOTE]

A constant stress applied to a material can cause *creep* or gradual strain. A constant strain applied to a material can cause *relaxation* or a gradual reduction in stress. Fatigue is not synonomous with either of those phenonmena.

rwhite692
06-17-2009, 02:19 PM
I think that Napanee is just the manufacturer of the extruded aluminum raw stock channel material, that Class Act uses to build up the door assembly.

must8657
06-17-2009, 03:39 PM
Well I am a metallurgical engineer, and all of you are not using the term "fatigue" properly.

Fatigue in metal is a cyclic cracking while loaded under the material's yield strength. For most metals the normal fatigue limit is 100,000 plus cycles. This is called high cycle low stress fatigue. There is also low cycle high stress fatigue where you can get cracking as low as 100 cycles. But the main point is that any fatigue will show up as cracks that initiate and propagate. OCG's ramp door did not crack, it simply yielded. Or in technical terms, it has permanent plastic deformation, caused by the applied stress exceeding the yield strength of the door material. It does not have fatigue. Metal fatigue is not like your muscles where the material is weaker. You all need to understand the proper terminology.

aren't we talking about a composite door here, not metal? can you explain the definition of fatigue for composites so we can all use the term correctly? I guess i am correct though in that it is incorrect to use a blanket statement that fatigue isn't a factor until after 100k cycles. even your explanation states only "most metals". also, merriam-webster defines fatigue as : the tendency of a material to break under repeated stress
jason

T56 Impala
06-17-2009, 05:55 PM
Well I am a metallurgical engineer, and all of you are not using the term "fatigue" properly.

Fatigue in metal is a cyclic cracking while loaded under the material's yield strength. For most metals the normal fatigue limit is 100,000 plus cycles. This is called high cycle low stress fatigue. There is also low cycle high stress fatigue where you can get cracking as low as 100 cycles. But the main point is that any fatigue will show up as cracks that initiate and propagate. OCG's ramp door did not crack, it simply yielded. Or in technical terms, it has permanent plastic deformation, caused by the applied stress exceeding the yield strength of the door material. It does not have fatigue. Metal fatigue is not like your muscles where the material is weaker. You all need to understand the proper terminology.

Now why didn't the spell it out for me like that in school! :headscrat

HOTFR8
06-17-2009, 07:25 PM
all of you are not using the term "fatigue" properly.

I am now suffering from fatigue reading all of this knowing that the trailer manufacturer is not looking after his customer. :mad: :willy_nil
I am not an English teacher but I think that is using the word correctly :lol_hitti

Why has this not been resolved :rolleyes::confused: :confused:

38Chevy454
06-17-2009, 07:34 PM
altho, as a "metallurgical engineer", you should know that aluminum can "fatigue" and fail over time even if a load below it's rating is applied constantly over a period of time. so yes, the metal does get weaker.
as far as a composite door, have you ever streched a rubber band a few times? is it looser then when new afterwards? repeated use causes failure. always. the only variable factor is the time it takes.

You are wrong. The metal does not get weaker. You are one of those that deos not understand what fatigue in metal means.

If you want to get real technical, when the door permanently deformed the metal actually got a tiny bit stronger due to work hardening when in the plastic deformation range. The it got an additional tiny bit stronger when OCG overbent it back so he could latch the door.

But I repeat, the metal does not get weaker in fatigue. Assuming you have enough cycles that a crack is formed, the total load the metal can support does go down because of the reduced area remaining uncracked, but the metal that is uncracked has just exactly the same strength as when new.

Rubber bands are not metal. Big differences in the properties, no comparisons are accurate. A true stress analysis of the composite door would show what portions are under tension vs compression and where the high stress locations are. I wonder if Class Act has ever done a real stress analysis?

rwhite692
06-17-2009, 07:38 PM
OCG:

SOooooo.......

How did the visit to the dealer go?

HOTFR8
06-17-2009, 07:40 PM
You are wrong. The metal does not get weaker. You are one of those that deos not understand what fatigue in metal means.

If you want to get real technical, when the door permanently deformed the metal actually got a tiny bit stronger due to work hardening when in the plastic deformation range. The it got an additional tiny bit stronger when OCG overbent it back so he could latch the door.

But I repeat, the metal does not get weaker in fatigue. Assuming you have enough cycles that a crack is formed, the total load the metal can support does go down because of the reduced area remaining uncracked, but the metal that is uncracked has just exactly the same strength as when new.

Rubber bands are not metal. Big differences in the properties, no comparisons are accurate. A true stress analysis of the composite door would show what portions are under tension vs compression and where the high stress locations are. I wonder if Class Act has ever done a real stress analysis?

OK, So what does that say about OCG's trailer ? Was it built to his requirements ?

OldCarGuy
06-17-2009, 08:18 PM
OCG:

SOooooo.......

How did the visit to the dealer go?

The people at JTI have been very cooperative with me. By no means are they ignoring me like Class Act. In fact yesterday they returned my call long after their store closed. While Class Act has yet to return my calls. JTI spent a lot of their time going over the ramp door failure. And comparing the model on their lot with mine. They concur with my thoughts that Class Act had no business shipping a door meant for Motorcycles on a model they call a car hauler. Then took a number of photo’s and sending them to Class Act to argue our case.

It was pointed out to me that Class Act installs the same capacity rated ramp door on their small cargo hauler. Imagine a 2,500 pound capacity ramp door on a 5' by 8' trailer with a payload of only 985 pounds. That’s 2 1/ 2 times the strength than the capacity of the trailer. While they put the same capacity ramp door on my car hauler with 7,000 pound capacity. If they were true to form, my car hauler’s ramp door should have an 18,000 pound capacity rather than 2,500... Where’s the logic here? :confused:


.

Defender Chassis
06-17-2009, 10:06 PM
With respect to the phenomenon known as fatigue, I yield the floor to those more highly educated and much more experienced than I. The limit of my experience with fatigue was while in school and I know that composite materials act much differently than steel.

I do however have many years experience in contract administration and unfortunately if OCG did not put his requirements in writing he is likely out of luck. I hope it is not true but there is nothing that he really can do. I do like the 1/3 split idea though. It does not solve the long term problem but it does give OCG a trailer he can sell and use the money to get the trailer he needs.

As a side note, that trailer would not have been a problem for any of the racers at the track with me this weekend. I would not hesitate to say that door would be fine for over 95% of those that need an enclosed car hauler.

nissan_crawler
06-18-2009, 01:57 AM
That door wouldn't work for 95% of the people that I know with enclosed trailers.

I can see it now..."Here's your new pickup sir, the frame and suspension are rated for 4,000#'s of payload...but the bed is only good for 500#'s.

Frank Elson
06-18-2009, 06:41 AM
+1 on the 95 per cent.
Most of my friends would have been outside the Class Act factory gates by now... as would I.

Defender Chassis
06-18-2009, 07:53 AM
What kind of car are you guys hauling that weighs more than 4500 lb?

OldCarGuy
06-18-2009, 08:38 AM
What kind of car are you guys hauling that weighs more than 4500 lb?

All the antique car enthusiasts that I know have cars that exceed my Class Act Car Hauler's ramp door rated capacity.

One point you seem to pass over. That's maybe all doors that Nappanee Window produced were not created equal. Seeing that the material that they used was most likely recycled. My ramp door could very well be defective. And since it looked like Class Act changed ramp door manufacturers on trailers made the month after mine. Tells me they had some kind of problems with Nappanee Window.

Again, why would Class Act put a 2,500 pound ramp door on their 5' by 8' “Cargo Hauler” with a payload of only 985 pounds? And put the same capacity ramp door on a 7,000 pound “Car Hauler “Car Hauler”.

I welcome,,, in fact I challenge you to look at my door first hand. To see how poorly this ramp door is made. I'm sure that will have you whistling another tune!

Defender Chassis
06-18-2009, 09:01 AM
OCG,

This will be my last post on this topic. I wish you the best of luck in getting your issue resolved and hope that in the end that those responsible for causing the confusion are the ones who actually suffer monetarily.

Regards,
Scott

OldCarGuy
06-18-2009, 10:56 AM
OCG,

This will be my last post on this topic. I wish you the best of luck in getting your issue resolved and hope that in the end that those responsible for causing the confusion are the ones who actually suffer monetarily.

Regards,
Scott

Believe it or not, I appreciate your input,, along with NewCarGuy's. Whomever he may be. Your opinions have been helpful to me and taken in earnest. And have given me insight just how I'm going to proceed taking on Class Act.

In my opinion, Class Act will not survive in any business world. Let alone today's environment. Knowing that their product failed, any good manufacturer would take it seriously. And find a solution that makes their product functional and safe. But they are totally shrugging off their responsibility and ignoring the problem. The President of Class Act received a letter from me eight days ago June 10th at 10:10 in the morning. As of today, there was no response. Can they be hoping that the problem disappears?

Again thanks, :beer:
OCG

boiler7904
06-18-2009, 11:19 AM
Now that you mention safety, does it make sense to send a letter to the Ohio or US Dept of Transportation notifying them of a failure to a major component to your trailer? Don't know what it would really do for you but you're probably not the only one in this situation with Class Act.

ptschram
06-18-2009, 03:30 PM
What kind of car are you guys hauling that weighs more than 4500 lb?

Any stock coil-sprung Land Rover would easily exceed that weight. The "Race" truck in the shop tipped the scales at nearly 8K# loaded for expeditions.

Take a 5300# truck, add a roll cage, fuel, water, recovery gear, on-board fire-suppression, etc. it's easy to add more weight than one would ever expect.

OCG-good luck. One suggestion-contact the Indiana Attorney General's office, they don't take well to such things happening. With the current state of Elkhart county's economy, this does not bode well. According to local news reports, Elkhart County has the highest unemployment rate in the country right now at 18%+.

Good luck!

PT

boiler7904
06-18-2009, 03:51 PM
According to local news reports, Elkhart County has the highest unemployment rate in the country right now at 18%+.

Not that any place wants to win that race, but I think Detroit has them beat. I saw something this morning about Detroit's Economy. I want to say that they are hovering at 22% unemployment now that GM and Chrysler have declared bankruptcy and dealers have started to close.

Elkhart is definitely leading the state of Indiana in Unemployment. My wife's uncle and cousin worked in the RV industry up until late last summer / early fall when the bottom fell out of that business.

Get ready for unemployment numbers to start artificially coming down as more and more people exhaust their benefits. Since they can't collect, they aren't counted as unemployed yet they don't have a job. At least that's how it works in Indiana. Other states are probably similar.

jake00
06-18-2009, 07:22 PM
Nappanee Window isn't the problem'

It's CA that decides how to apply NW's product,

I still think the dealer should be swapping doors or somehow making it right.

My father and I own a hardwood flooring production facility and distributor. If a customer orders Product X from us, and for whatever reason, Product Y comes in, We make it right, and Then after the end user is happy, we deal with the vendor on our time, not the customers...


EDIT: I'd like everyone to read this page on CA's site
http://www.classacttrailers.com/HTML/services.php

foxx_good
06-18-2009, 08:46 PM
Nappanee Window isn't the problem'

It's CA that decides how to apply NW's product,

I still think the dealer should be swapping doors or somehow making it right.

My father and I own a hardwood flooring production facility and distributor. If a customer orders Product X from us, and for whatever reason, Product Y comes in, We make it right, and Then after the end user is happy, we deal with the vendor on our time, not the customers...


EDIT: I'd like everyone to read this page on CA's site
http://www.classacttrailers.com/HTML/services.php
Wow i just sifted through this thread good to know if i ever need a car hauler I like this line on that page
# Classic Car Enthusiast
# Race Car Hauler

It should come with an asterisk saying that the above statements only apply to lotus, MG and Ariel atom enthusiasts or people that race honda crx's otherwise the door will fall to pieces

bmwpower
06-18-2009, 08:49 PM
Almost 15k reads and counting. How many customers lost so far?

OldCarGuy
06-18-2009, 11:11 PM
Almost 15k reads and counting. How many customers lost so far?

Out of over 7,000 threads in this section over the past four years. Only Three had more replies and only 10 had more hits than this thread. If you Google search “Class Act car hauler” or “Class Act trailers” this thread comes up on the fist page first! I would say we’re getting the word out about Class Act...

If anything, my poor experience with Class Act will keep others from making the same mistake as I made.

Justanoldguy
06-18-2009, 11:31 PM
Well at least Class Act have a sense of humour.
Read this joke and laugh........... :bounce: :bowdown:

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo214/49lincolncoupe/classact.jpg

.

jgira12
06-19-2009, 01:00 AM
and the reason this thread gets a sticky is...????:confused:

nissan_crawler
06-19-2009, 01:37 AM
What kind of car are you guys hauling that weighs more than 4500 lb?

My race car was around 4200#'s, it would get over 4500#'s if the track was sloppy.

My crawler is 5k #'s.

My mom's minivan was over 4k.

Our ranger was over 4k.

My '57 was around 6k #'s.

The only vehicle I think I've ever hauled under 4k #'s, was my sister's old rabbit.

bmwpower
06-19-2009, 08:32 AM
and the reason this thread gets a sticky is...????:confused:

So morons like you don't get screwed.

Defender Chassis
06-19-2009, 10:21 AM
Im going to go back on my word and once again respond in this thread.

That door wouldn't work for 95% of the people that I know with enclosed trailers.

I can see it now..."Here's your new pickup sir, the frame and suspension are rated for 4,000#'s of payload...but the bed is only good for 500#'s.

Wouldnt a better analogy be:

"Yes sir the truck is rated for 4k lb but no sir you can not put all of it on the tailgate at one time."

Defender Chassis
06-19-2009, 10:42 AM
My race car was around 4200#'s, it would get over 4500#'s if the track was sloppy.

My crawler is 5k #'s.

My mom's minivan was over 4k.

Our ranger was over 4k.

My '57 was around 6k #'s.

The only vehicle I think I've ever hauled under 4k #'s, was my sister's old rabbit.

What is your point? I said 4500 lb. Do many rock crawler enthusiasts use enclosed trailers? If so, what percentage of enclosed trailers are used by these people? Do you own an enclosed trailer for the expressed purpose of hauling your Mom's minivan? Your Ranger? I did not say there werent cars that do not weigh more than 4500 lb.

I will be going to the drag strip this weekend. I can not think of a single car that will participate outsdide of the street class that would comew close to 4500 lb. Let alone the ones that get towed in with enclosed trailers.

You guys are jumping on the bandwagon here and have no idea what the manufacturer actually did or did not do during the sale. This trailer obviously has a lite duty gate that some are suggesting should never be put on any trailer. This trailer is obviously made to fill a niche market (elimnation of cables on the ramp door) and with any design benefit there are compromises. For all anyone here knows the manufacturer could have warned the dealer and the dealer went forth with the sale. Some here would like ClasAct to come on here and defend themselves but nobody in there right mind would voluntarily take part in this lynch mob mentality. The fact is there is only one side of the story being portrayed here. I have nothing against OCG and have no connection to ClassAct.

BTW, I reserve the right to respond to any further antilogic.

Why dont we start a poll of people with enclosed car trailers? Lets list the trailer size and capacity and then list the cars you regularly haul in your trailer. I will go 1st.

2001 Exiss Mach10 40' Gooseneck w/ twin 7k lb axles (5700lb empty)
#1: 225" Dragster, 1500lb
#2: 2000 EzGo Golf Cart, 650lb.
#3: 1995 Spitzer Jr. Dragster, 350lb.
1, 2 & 3 are currently hauled at the same time but not loaded simulltaneously.
#4: 1973 Plymouth Duster, 3000lb. (not raced for the last three seasons)

IDASHO
06-19-2009, 10:50 AM
SO, when did this enclosed CAR hauler turn into an enclosed RACE CAR hauler? :headscrat

Obviously, most race cars are going to be lighter.

That said, the vast majority of full size 4-door CARS these days tip the scales at more than 4k lbs.


Not like it really matters. The trailer is rated to haul a vehicle of said weight, and the only way to get it in there is to drive up the door. Unlike your tailgate analogy, whereas any truck can be loaded without the use of the tailgate.

Defender Chassis
06-19-2009, 10:52 AM
So morons like you don't get screwed.

How was that not a reasonable question? Why is your response acceptable?

Defender Chassis
06-19-2009, 10:59 AM
SO, when did this enclosed CAR hauler turn into an enclosed RACE CAR hauler? :headscrat Semantics:headscrat

Obviously, most race cars are going to be lighter.

That said, the vast majority of full size 4-door CARS these days tip the scales at more than 4k lbs.What do you think most people buy an enclosed trailer to haul? I am willing to bet it is not their daily driver. Do you own an enclosed trailer? The 73 Plymouth I listed came from the factory at 3400 lb. So, it is 400 lb lighter but it also has a full cage and a big block.


Not like it really matters. The trailer is rated to haul a vehicle of said weight, and the only way to get it in there is to drive up the door. Unlike your tailgate analogy, whereas any truck can be loaded without the use of the tailgate.

Remember, the gate only takes part of the vehicle weight while being loaded.

IDASHO
06-19-2009, 11:17 AM
Daily driver, race car, who the hell cares WHAT type of rig they are hauling. That is up to the owner to decide what they need it for. Just so long as it remains within the limits of the trailers specs.

Who are you to care?

I have had a few enclosed trailers. One made by interstate, the other by haulmark. Neither of them car-haulers though. They were cargo trailers.

But I loaded the hell out of them, well past their GVWR. And they never failed, even on multiple 900+ mile trips relocating from CA to ID.

Bottom line is that there is NO reason to put such a door on a trailer of ANY kind, when the trailer is rated as such.

A 2009 Mercedes CLS550 4-Door Coupe is more than 4k lbs

A 2009 BMW 750i is more than 4k lbs

A 2009 Cadillac CTS-V is more than 4k lbs


These are just a few examples.

And by your rational, NONE of them can be hauled in a trailer rated for 6k??

Hmmm....

Titus
06-19-2009, 11:18 AM
What do you think most people buy an enclosed trailer to haul? I am willing to bet it is not their daily driver. Do you own an enclosed trailer? The 73 Plymouth I listed came from the factory at 3400 lb. So, it is 400 lb lighter but it also has a full cage and a big block.
I see enclosed car trailers in 2 places. Race tracks and car shows. Lots of old cars at car shows. Lots of old cars are heavy.

IDASHO
06-19-2009, 11:19 AM
I see enclosed car trailers in 2 places. Race tracks and car shows. Lots of old cars at car shows. Lots of old cars are heavy.

Add one place to that list.

On the road, when people relocate.

1SlowFormula
06-19-2009, 11:54 AM
Why dont we start a poll of people with enclosed car trailers? Lets list the trailer size and capacity and then list the cars you regularly haul in your trailer. I will go 1st.

2001 Exiss Mach10 40' Gooseneck w/ twin 7k lb axles (5700lb empty)
#1: 225" Dragster, 1500lb
#2: 2000 EzGo Golf Cart, 650lb.
#3: 1995 Spitzer Jr. Dragster, 350lb.
1, 2 & 3 are currently hauled at the same time but not loaded simulltaneously.
#4: 1973 Plymouth Duster, 3000lb. (not raced for the last three seasons)
I agree with you about all of it, but am really responding to the quoted part above...

I think this is a good idea, but probably not needed for this post. I too am more involved with racing (drag racing in my case as well) and as you stated most of those guys are not really going to overload that door to the extent OCG did. But, you must realize we are only part of the market for these trailers, and honestly the intended use is not always the only use, but I guess that goes back to your previous point before that things should be made with the expectation that if someone can do it they more then likely will and why your stuff was built well over it's rating...

I have a 1998 Pace American 28" tag, older and heavier then the new stuff, but also can handle loading damn near anything...

My trailer has a 40 gal water supply on the front over the tongue, outfitted with upper and lower with a sink in the countertop of the lower cabinets, and a shower stall. I normally carry (at least is always loaded in there) a generator, ~300# of assorted tools , (3) 5 gal fuel jugs (1 for the generator and 2 with the race fuel mix), electric winch, 2 full size 12v batteries, and 110v panel, trailer electrical stuff (there is also 12 and 110v lighing and roof mounted 110v AC), 20' awning on the side of the trailer, folding chairs, folding canopy for comfort at the track, spare tires, and misc spare parts all said and done well more than 1500# added to the base weight that I can't even remeber any more before any sort of car gets loaded and as I said that stuff normally lives in there...

As for cars:
'95 Firebird converted from a street car to drag car (sub 3000# with me in it, but I normally winch it in bcause it is a beast to climb out of while in the trailer)
'67 mustang coupe (never weighed it but I would guess around 3200# max with me driving it in)

However I have also loaded it with:
'98 Dodge dakota (guess it was over 3600# or more at least)
'91 Mistubishi Montero (again 3600# or more, never weighed it)
Honda Pilot SUV loaded with stuff (a pure guess is over 4000#)
And again those were not the intended use, but when someone needs a tow I normally help them out, and if OCG was a buddy stuck on the side of the road with his 6000# cars and gave me a call to come tow him I wouldn't hesitate to do it, but I also think my ramp can easily handle it too...

Defender Chassis
06-19-2009, 11:55 AM
Bottom line is that there is NO reason to put such a door on a trailer of ANY kind, when the trailer is rated as such.


Like you said, who are you to make that determination? I can think of many reasons to have a door of this type. To elimnate the side cables and use hinge mounted torsion springs the door will have to be lightened. If not, all trailer amnufacturers would be doing it. Many people use a trailer like this to haul motorcycles. I have seen similar trailers outfitted with fold down beds so once the cycles are unloaded the trailer can be used to camp. Before you get your panties in a wad, I realize this is not OCG's intended use. My point is that some here think if the trailer is rated for 7k lb then the door should also be rated that high. That is not necessarily needed by all of those in the market for a piece of equipment of this type and if you want to eliminate the side cables then you obviously have to take a reduction in capacity of the door. I can see it as a desireable benefit to some. I have foam padding I install on my cables so people do not run into them. They do get in the way quite often.

BTW, I didnt say the tailgate analogy was perfect, only that it was more valid that what was proposed. If fact though, what about some of the recent super pickups made by Sterling and International? They obviosly have way more capacity that the bed they install can handle. This is because they are made to pull a trailer also. Does this mean they should not be built? Just because they will not work for everyone does not mean they are not perfectly acceptable by others.

1320stang
06-19-2009, 01:06 PM
Defender, if you had a car like OCG posted, would you haul it on an open trailer?

slicktoptt
06-19-2009, 01:18 PM
[QUOTE=Defender Chassis;514412] Many people use a trailer like this to haul motorcycles. I have seen similar trailers outfitted with fold down beds so once the cycles are unloaded the trailer can be used to camp. Before you get your panties in a wad, I realize this is not OCG's intended use. My point is that some here think if the trailer is rated for 7k lb then the door should also be rated that high. That is not necessarily needed by all of those in the market for a piece of equipment of this type and if you want to eliminate the side cables then you obviously have to take a reduction in capacity of the door. I can see it as a desireable benefit to some."


Here's where I think you are clearly missing the point. I don't think anyone expects a trailer door that will hold 7k lbs...but they surely would expect it to hold more than 2,500lb. The trailer was sold as a "car hauler". Not a motorcycle hauler or cargo hauler or snowmobile hauler. The problem with the design on this car hauler is that it has the same door on it as those lesser haulers. Even CA's Gooseneck haulers have the same rated door. Do you truly believe it's appropriate to manufacture something that has components on it that the product description and generally accepted intended use will exceed the limitations of.

Does it really make sense to you that a person that buys a car hauler and only intends to use it to haul motorcycles or atv's gets the benefit of a product that will be over engineered for their application but a guy that buys a car hauler to actually haul cars gets the same door that is on the cargo and snowmobile trailer they offer?

Do you get to make your roll cage out of any size tube with any wall thickness you want? Do some cars not even require a roll cage? Why do you even need a roll cage it's not necessarily needed by everyone that races...only those who wreck.

Art From De Leon
06-19-2009, 01:20 PM
"That is not necessarily needed by all of those in the market for a piece of equipment of this type and if you want to eliminate the side cables then you obviously have to take a reduction in capacity of the door"

So you are saying that NO door/ramp built without cables could have been built strong enough? Pretty broad generalization, I would say, especially since the trailer seems to have been specified to meet his requirments. Again, it would seem the manufacturer would have been the first to address his specifications, IF they knew that a cableless door/ramp would not meet the requirement.
The whole purpose of a torsion design is to eliminate the need for cables, or is it only for aiding in the lifting of the door/ramp?
It appears to me that he greatly increased the integrity of the ramp by adding the 2 X 8 boards as stiffeners to spread the load.