The curse of two systems

[swduncan]

So I'm at sears today, and I see they have a wrench set I've been thinking of getting on sale. I know I'm going to get metric, but I evidently have something in my dna that requires I also get inch as well. I know my truck and my wife's van are metric. Along with my bicycle, lawnmower, trimmer, and just about anything else mechanical.

But if I build anything, it will use inch fasteners because metric is expensive and impossible to find in some configurations (like carriage bolts).

It would probably be smarter if I just got metric tools, but any time I try to buy a set that is just metric without getting the corresponding inch set, I develop seizures on the way to the register.

Anyone else have this compulsive need?

Anyone else irritated that all through grade school we had the metric system shoved down our throats because "in a few years" we'll be switching over, only to STILL be using the inch system into the 21st century?

[nate379]

Musta went to grade school in the 60s/70s? My folks told me about the metric changeover deal that never happened.

We learned SAE when I went to school.

I don't get why it's 1/2 and 1/2 though. My Dodge and Chevy both use a little bit of both with no real rhyme or reason. Same for the Jeep.

My car is a Mitsubishi so it's all metric though.

[alex71]

Just curious what kind of wrench you think you will be using on a carriage bolt?

[nate379]

For the nut ya tard! :bounce:

[swduncan]

Yes, you end up turning the nut on a carriage bolt because they forgot to cut a screw-slot (there's another relic that needs banishment) in the head. I use CB's on my woodworking projects.

Another thing I've noticed - my woodworking stuff is inch.

I just wish we'd switch, and be done with it.

Yep, grade school in the 60's & 70's. Even had to learn both in engineering school, and even ended us using both on the job. I'm starting to think there's a tool and hardware lobby that must be stopping inch abolition.

[Old Donn]

So I'm at sears today, and I see they have a wrench set I've been thinking of getting on sale. I know I'm going to get metric, but I evidently have something in my dna that requires I also get inch as well. I know my truck and my wife's van are metric. Along with my bicycle, lawnmower, trimmer, and just about anything else mechanical.

But if I build anything, it will use inch fasteners because metric is expensive and impossible to find in some configurations (like carriage bolts).

It would probably be smarter if I just got metric tools, but any time I try to buy a set that is just metric without getting the corresponding inch set, I develop seizures on the way to the register.

Anyone else have this compulsive need?

Anyone else irritated that all through grade school we had the metric system shoved down our throats because "in a few years" we'll be switching over, only to STILL be using the inch system into the 21st century?

Yep, every time.

[Art From De Leon]

What is FUN, is when some of the measurements are in feet or psi, and some of the others are in metric (cubic meters). Lots of oilfield work, overseas, and depending on the oil company you are working for will use English units, metric units, or a combination of both.
What is a pisser is being given your instructions in metric, converting them over to English units to do the calculations, converting them back to metric for the customer to approve, then using English units because that is all the automated systems are programmed to accept, then, during the job having to quickly convert the answer to the question the customer might ask back to metric, when you have about 99 thousand other things vying for your attention. Then the 'standardized' paperwork for the ticket and job summaries are all in English units, because the company is an American one.

[wantedabiggergarage]

Metric only, wasn't that kind of like Esparanza, or Esparanto? (Heard it refered to as both, barely remember it, mentioned)

[speed bump]

What is FUN, is when some of the measurements are in feet or psi, and some of the others are in metric (cubic meters). Lots of oilfield work, overseas, and depending on the oil company you are working for will use English units, metric units, or a combination of both.
What is a pisser is being given your instructions in metric, converting them over to English units to do the calculations, converting them back to metric for the customer to approve, then using English units because that is all the automated systems are programmed to accept, then, during the job having to quickly convert the answer to the question the customer might ask back to metric, when you have about 99 thousand other things vying for your attention. Then the 'standardized' paperwork for the ticket and job summaries are all in English units, because the company is an American one.

Makes me think of the coal mine my mom worked at. It was owned by shell and thus everything had to be converted to barrels of coal from tons whenever they reported to Texas.

[Merkava_4]

Just curious what kind of wrench you think you will be using on a carriage bolt?

LOL!! :lol:

[J.A.F.E.]

Call me a Luddite or a jingoist but it's the metric system we should dump. Inches, pounds, gallons and Fahrenheit are our heritage and that's what we should use.

[Charles (in GA)]

Here 'ya go. Due to a pounds, kilos, litres, imperial gallons misunderstanding, this aircraft went down in the history of aviation as the Gimli Glider.

Read the section entitled "Refueling" for a understanding of how unit conversions can go astray.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Charles

[Diesel_Crawler]

Call me a Luddite or a jingoist but it's the metric system we should dump. Inches, pounds, gallons and Fahrenheit are our heritage and that's what we should use.

I 2nd that, i just finished a block of school here and all the books are Imperial and the test are metric.
I mean what the hell was wrong with the Imperial system? last i check numbers could not break :headscrat
So why did we all of a sudden need to replace it!

[nate379]

It is a system that makes no sense though. Least metric is in 10s.

Don't you hate that when you need one size up for a wrench and you can't remember what it is... metric is pretty easy there!

Call me a Luddite or a jingoist but it's the metric system we should dump. Inches, pounds, gallons and Fahrenheit are our heritage and that's what we should use.

[GSteg]

It is a system that makes no sense though. Least metric is in 10s.

Don't you hate that when you need one size up for a wrench and you can't remember what it is... metric is pretty easy there!


I was just going to post the same thing!

If 15mm is a bit too small for a nut/bolt, the next logical thing to do is try 16mm. :shocking:

[Merkava_4]

Y'all can blame Toyota for the metric system; when they started showing up in this country, everything else became metric. :D

[J.A.F.E.]

It is a system that makes no sense though. Least metric is in 10s.

Don't you hate that when you need one size up for a wrench and you can't remember what it is... metric is pretty easy there!

There is a learning curve and some quirks, I admit. However, there is historical and cultural significance and it's an integral part of the culture. Benjamin Franklin spent much time in France and was aware of the metric system and it's impending official adaoption by the French. He did not to my knowledge suggest adopting the system even though he was a proponent of decimal currancy. France adopted the metric system officially in 1795, five years after Franklin died.

[Merkava_4]

You guys oughta be happy there isn't both metric and SAE drive sizes. :spit:

[rhp]

I prefer THREE systems: British Standard Whitworth + SAE + Metric.
I luv those BSW tools!
Too bad the Brits baled out and went metric.

[Chris Adams]

Musta went to grade school in the 60s/70s? My folks told me about the metric changeover deal that never happened.

We learned SAE when I went to school.

I don't get why it's 1/2 and 1/2 though. My Dodge and Chevy both use a little bit of both with no real rhyme or reason. Same for the Jeep.

My car is a Mitsubishi so it's all metric though.

Because Dodge, Chevy, Jeep, etc. don't build all the components, anymore than Mitsubishi builds all it's components.
They buy sub groups from vendors.
In Japan 90% of the vehicle is subgroups from small vendors.
In the US it's about 50-60%.
If the sub vendor is Canadian, US, Mexican, the parts tend to be about half metric/half SAE. If the sub vendor is US the parts tend to be about 75% SAE.
The stuff built by the car maker itself, in the US is now all metric, but a few years ago it was also mixed.
SAE are all 'legacy' parts, i.e. stuff built when it was all SAE. By stuff, I mean the manufacturing facilities tools, tooling, dies, etc.
Eventually SAE will be gone from automotive, it's about 99% gone today.
It will linger on in housing and construction for a few years more.

[Packard V8]

When metric first started showing up in equipment, a few old hard case pros I knew already had all the odd 32nd size sockets and wrenches and took great pride in being able to work on anything metric with their inch sets.

thnx, jack vines

[Uncle Buck]

It is a system that makes no sense though. Least metric is in 10s.

Don't you hate that when you need one size up for a wrench and you can't remember what it is... metric is pretty easy there!

Clearly you just do not use your standard stuff enough. What you described has not happened to me since I was a little kid. Memorizing the fractional sizes in the proper sequence is quite easy. In fact, I would offer that it is as easy to remember that as everyone says the metric system is. At this point it just comes natural, it is the metric that I will never grasp. :wtf:

[Uncle Buck]

While I have a strong dislike for metric, I am very happy I started putting together my metric set years ago. At least I have a healthy compliment of metric tools to wrench on the metric fasters I hate so much!

[speed bump]

Its great having the metric system because almost all of my rulers have a drawing scale on one side of them.