Knipex Questions...with pics

[KLars1]

Hey guys, I just picked up some new Knipex pliers. I appreciate the quality of these fine tools and don't mind paying the relatively high price for a quality piece.

1) Here is a picture of the 12" jaw Cobras I bought vs. some 6" and some Cman branded Knipex. I always appreciated the perfect jaw alignment of the my other pairs of Cobras but the 12" don't close all of the way. Is this 'normal' to not have them close all of the way?

What I expect, perfect alignment:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/klars11/Tools/DSC_0245.jpg

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/klars11/Tools/DSC_0246.jpg


Here are the 12", this is as far as they go. There seems to be a variation in the overall jaw design on the 12". By design or defective pair?

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/klars11/Tools/DSC_0247.jpg





I also bought these Knipex pliers but the joint is suprisingly free...that is, it doesn't have any slop but if I hold them horizontally and let the bottom handle go they swing all the way open by the force of gravity. I'm used to Snap-On pliers in that when you get them the joint is super stiff and even using them for a long time they wouldn't do this.

By design or defective pair?

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/klars11/Tools/DSC_0254.jpg

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/klars11/Tools/DSC_0255.jpg


thanks for the help...

[Moose-LandTran]

I have the shortest Cobras they make 8" or something. Not impressed by the rough casting/forging, the teeth meet though.

[Monte]

I don`t know about the Cobras but the pliers should open easy like you described, if they open stiff then the joint is too tight and they`re defective.

[malibu101]

Most linesman pliers, like your bottom pics, don't close all the way at the top. To allow the wire cutter to fully close.
On the slip joints- I don't know which one is to be expected from Knipex. Although I'd like to think the fully closed, neshed teeth should be the standard.

[Merkava_4]

I'm not so sure about the Cobra's, but with the side cutters, they're supposed to have that gap in between the jaws so that the knife edges meet first. If you've ever used Klein Lineman's, that's the way they are.

[t100]

I'm not so sure about the Cobra's, but with the side cutters, they're supposed to have that gap in between the jaws so that the knife edges meet first. If you've ever used Klein Lineman's, that's the way they are.

x3, i had 3 Klein lineman's pliers over the years(lost them all), that's the way it's designed.

[superautobacs]

The OP hasn't mentioned anything about a concern with the gap on the lineman's pliers. :headscrat:confused:
For less hand/finger fatigue, the pliers should open and close freely (without slop at the joint, of course).

[KLars1]

The OP hasn't mentioned anything about a concern with the gap on the lineman's pliers. :headscrat:confused:
For less hand/finger fatigue, the pliers should open and close freely (without slop at the joint, of course).

superautobacs...thanks!!

Yes, I do know that linemans / general style pliers on the second pic are supposed to have a gap.

superautobacs and Monte have answered my question on the second pliers about the stiffness of the joint. I'm definetely not used to this as all the Snap-On pliers I've purchased have been stiff at the joint...where you actually have to open them, they stay there and then you have to close them. Even with a lot of use they have stayed like this. Wonder what the dealer would say if I returned them and told him all of these are defective. :pimpflash

[KLars1]

I have the shortest Cobras they make 8" or something. Not impressed by the rough casting/forging, the teeth meet though.

After you mentioned that, I found a very rough edge in the casting/forging on the 6" pair...easily could catch skin and tear...

[Merkava_4]

superautobacs...thanks!!

Yes, I do know that linemans / general style pliers on the second pic are supposed to have a gap.

superautobacs and Monte have answered my question on the second pliers about the stiffness of the joint. I'm definetely not used to this as all the Snap-On pliers I've purchased have been stiff at the joint...where you actually have to open them, they stay there and then you have to close them. Even with a lot of use they have stayed like this. Wonder what the dealer would say if I returned them and told him all of these are defective. :pimpflash


My Ideal crimpers are stiff at the joint and I LOVE them for that. It holds the connector in the die for me until I can insert the wire; otherwise I'd have to lightly squeeze them to hold the connector in place until I made the crimp.

[BB26]

I have 7, 10, 12 and 16'' cobras. The jaws touch on all of them. I think your 12'' has a defect.

[KLars1]

My Ideal crimpers are stiff at the joint and I LOVE them for that. It holds the connector in the die for me until I can insert the wire; otherwise I'd have to lightly squeeze them to hold the connector in place until I made the crimp.

Yeah, I was thinking about this and it isn't only Snap-On that are stiff at the joint...my Klein's and vintage Krauters and Craftman still have friction in the joint after 35+ years. That is why I asked....

Maybe nissan_crawler can weigh in on this, I think he has the same pair. I can understand the fatigue thing but it feels funny to me to have them this friction free. (because I'm used to them holding themselves open.

[KLars1]

I have 7, 10, 12 and 16'' cobras. The jaws touch on all of them. I think your 12'' has a defect.

Thanks - the kind of observation I was in need of. :thumbup:

BB26 - Is the jaw design on the 12 and 16" cobras different on your pairs as well? Notice on the bottom jaw curves away differently than the smaller pair.

[GeorgiaHybrid]

KLars1,

My Knipex wire cutters have been loose from the start. Not sloppy, just a well broken in feeling. They will flop open and closed but there is NO freeplay in the joint. Every wire cutter and linesman style of pliers that I have seen of theirs was this way.

Some might not like them loose but I do.

[mrshaun]

Most knipex cutters have good tension as well as snap on. if they flop open easily I would warranty them with the retailer you bought them from. If they know knipex it will be no q's asked.

[HarveyM]

Here's a pic of mine
The teeth on this set align.
Harvey

[KLars1]

Here's a pic of mine
The teeth on this set align.
Harvey

HarveyM - Are those 12"ers?

[KLars1]

KLars1,

My Knipex wire cutters have been loose from the start. Not sloppy, just a well broken in feeling. They will flop open and closed but there is NO freeplay in the joint. Every wire cutter and linesman style of pliers that I have seen of theirs was this way.

Some might not like them loose but I do.

GeorgiaHybrid - Thanks for the information...you are describing exactly how these feel...flop open and closed but zero freeplay.

[nissan_crawler]

Just looked at mine, the 12" pair just barely touches at the end, it bottoms on the cutout on the one handle, that the other handle goes in. It looks like it's mushroomed a bit at the end, so at one point, they might have been a little further apart, I never noticed before, to be honest.

As for the pliers opening easily, completely normal for them. All my Knipex are that way. The few that weren't, I sprayed some kroil in them and worked them a bit until they loosened up. I had some brown goo coming out, I suspect it's a rust preventative put in the joint from the factory, and after it dries out, the pliers get stiffer.

[KLars1]

Thanks crawler!

[HarveyM]

HarveyM - Are those 12"ers?

Yes, they're about 2 years old.


Harvey

[BB26]

Thanks - the kind of observation I was in need of. :thumbup:

BB26 - Is the jaw design on the 12 and 16" cobras different on your pairs as well? Notice on the bottom jaw curves away differently than the smaller pair.

The jaw design is quite different on the 16'' but the 12'' model is only slightly different.

The handles open freely on my 10'' center cutting pliers just as Nissan and GeorgiaHybrid described.

[scooby074]

I use Kilens. Linesmens should open freely without slop.

THeres nothing better then when your pliers are worked in and lubed so they open freely. When you spend all day twisting wires, the extra effort fighting to open a stiff pair of pliers adds up.

[johnny1290]

I belive my knipex side cutters open freely(but no play), same with the linemans pliers.

It *is* sort of strange when you're used to tighter ones, come think of it, but the smooth throw on them is really nice. It does get old prying those things open.

[KLars1]

I use Kilens. Linesmens should open freely without slop.

THeres nothing better then when your pliers are worked in and lubed so they open freely. When you spend all day twisting wires, the extra effort fighting to open a stiff pair of pliers adds up.

Do the Klien linemans work in over time so they open freely? I just picked up some 9" Klein Linemans and they are pretty stiff out of the package.

[scooby074]

Do the Klien linemans work in over time so they open freely? I just picked up some 9" Klein Linemans and they are pretty stiff out of the package.

They will work in over time with use. They should be a little stiff but smooth right out of the package.Try a little light penetrating oil on the joint. Kroil or similar works fine, but theres no shortcut really besides use. Kind of like a ball glove.

[Monte]

Recognize quality pliers : :)

http://vbw.de/vbw_uk/images/mk_uk.jpg

[KLars1]

Kind of like a ball glove.

Great comparison, I like that! :thumbup:

[scottmlew]

Hmmm...the cool pic Monte posted says that there should be no light visible between the jaws, but we have discussed before that Knipex does have a little space between the jaws.

[cruiser808]

Hmmm...the cool pic Monte posted says that there should be no light visible between the jaws, but we have discussed before that Knipex does have a little space between the jaws.

I believe the ad meant no light should be seen between the cutting blades when the pliers are closed.

[scottmlew]

I believe the ad meant no light should be seen between the cutting blades when the pliers are closed.

Yeah, that's probably what they meant when they say "blades" :lol_hitti I was reading too quickly!

[Monte]

I believe the ad meant no light should be seen between the cutting blades when the pliers are closed.

exactly !


http://vbw.de/vbw_uk/images/wp_uk.jpg

[KLars1]

Update:

I sent the 12" Cobras back. I bought them from Chad's toolbox and they confirmed they were defective once they received them. I got the replacements and they looks great and the jaws meet as they should.

The jury is out on the 0201180 pliers, IMO. I just got some more Knipex items (side cutters, larger linemans) and they are perfect as far as the joint goes. Butter smooth, low friction, zero slop. My 0201180 above are much looser and I can detect the slightest amount of joint play even though they are new. (I didn't detect this before) Not sure they are worth sending back, Chad's doesn't cover return shipping for defective products. So I would have to spend almost the cost of the pliers to swap them and that just isn't worth it.

[Monte]

Does your 0201180 cut cable/wire without problems and also paper ?


ps:
How do you like the Knipex pliers compared to Snap-On or Channellock ?

The reason why I`m asking is last Friday i had the chance to play with the SO 388CF diagonal cutter and i needed both hands to open them, i wonder if they are always like that ?

[KLars1]

Does your 0201180 cut cable/wire without problems and also paper ?


ps:
How do you like the Knipex pliers compared to Snap-On or Channellock ?

The reason why I`m asking is last Friday i had the chance to play with the SO 388CF diagonal cutter and i needed both hands to open them, i wonder if they are always like that ?

The 0201180 but both paper and wire without problems.

As far as teh Knipex pliers compared to Snap-On or Channellock...IMO, the Knipex feel and look higher quality out of the box. The Knipex don't have the overbuilt, beefy look that the latest Snap-On pliers and cutters have. The Snap-On do look like they could withstand more abuse because they have a lot of extra material as compared to the Knipex. As far as which one will perform and last longer than the other, I'm not sure. I am sure that if warranty was an issue that it would be most likely easier to warranty a pair of Snap-On pliers in 20 years than it will be to warranty a pair of Knipex. (That is, unless Knipex becomes a lot more common in the USA)

I can provide some comparison pictures of pliers of the same relative style and size betweeen Snap-On and Knipex if anyone is interested.

Yes, the SO pliers and cutters I've bought are always very stiff in the joint like that. That was the basis of my original question on the 0201180 because I was used to the Snap-On feel of a relatively stiff joint, expecially when new.

My newest, larger linemans also fall open on their own. So, as mentioned earlier in the thread, the Knipex linemans series must be designed and manufactured this way. My Knipex Needle Nose and cutters are received DO NOT fall open on their own. So it must vary by Knipex Model? :dunno:

[FNFS2000]

I'm surprised they warrantied them from the store, I have tried with several other things from various online sellers and I'm always sent to the manufacturer for exchanges. Which I guess is just as well, if it needs to get mailed back for replacement who cares what address I send it to?

[Monte]

As far as which one will perform and last longer than the other, I'm not sure.

I wonder too especially since some of the newer Snap-On pliers (47CF + 196CF) are cold forged instead of hot forged so i wonder if they last as long as the traditional hot forged pliers like Channellock and Knipex etc.

I am sure that if warranty was an issue that it would be most likely easier to warranty a pair of Snap-On pliers in 20 years than it will be to warranty a pair of Knipex. (That is, unless Knipex becomes a lot more common in the USA)

i guess in 20 years they will be available everywhere like in germany :) , Home Depot and Sears already carry them.

I can provide some comparison pictures of pliers of the same relative style and size betweeen Snap-On and Knipex if anyone is interested.

I`m interested :)


My 0201180 above are much looser and I can detect the slightest amount of joint play even though they are new.

if you can cut paper then they are good i think even if the joint is not 100% wobble free only 99% since you can cut paper the blades match exactly.


Yes, the SO pliers and cutters I've bought are always very stiff in the joint like that. That was the basis of my original question on the 0201180 because I was used to the Snap-On feel of a relatively stiff joint, expecially when new.

My newest, larger linemans also fall open on their own. So, as mentioned earlier in the thread, the Knipex linemans series must be designed and manufactured this way. My Knipex Needle Nose and cutters are received DO NOT fall open on their own. So it must vary by Knipex Model? :dunno:

You should be able to open the pliers with one finger like in the pic, so if you can open/close them without problems they are ok , if they open rough or get stuck after an inch or so then they`re not good.

http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/jj347/mrblvd_album/hgfj8.jpg

[MadMark]

I have an older Channellock linesman with the double shear joint and they are the best pliers I've ever owned. Their cutters cut better than any compound joint mini bolt cutter I've used.
The Knipex linesmans look too small for a construction electricians. I would stick with klein or channellock.

[FNFS2000]

I have an older Channellock linesman with the double shear joint and they are the best pliers I've ever owned. Their cutters cut better than any compound joint mini bolt cutter I've used.
The Knipex linesmans look too small for a construction electricians. I would stick with klein or channellock.

Knipex makes a large size in a couple different handle options, looks just like Kleins.

[KLars1]

Knipex makes a large size in a couple different handle options, looks just like Kleins.

Yes, they do, I just got a pair and they are almost identical in size and relative dimesions to my 9" Kliens.

[Monte]

That`s right they make these 240mm Linemans pliers

http://www.knipex.de/fileadmin/site/knipex/scripts/mediando/images/KNIPEX/Produktfotos/web/zoom/09012404k.jpg

-solid construction for heaviest strain; universally applicable
-high transmission ratio for easy cutting
-requires 40% less effort compared with conventional combination pliers thanks to optimised transmission ratio
-ergonomically optimised handle shape for firm contact to the hand and fatigue reducing operation
-particularly effective crosswise serrated gripping zone in the jaws - for strong gripping and pulling
-additional gripping zone below the articulated joint for powerful leverage and pressing performance
-with cutting edges for soft and hard wire
-cutting edges additionally induction hardened, cutting edge hardness approx. 64 HRC
-Vanadium electric steel; forged, oil-hardened