Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?

[bmwpower]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=66263

Dead ringer for Prevost coupler....at a fraction of the cost.
Wonder how it performs?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/66200-66299/66263.gif

[jshillin]

They have had them for a while and they are junk. It worked quite well for the 1st few weeks and then mine started leaking at the seams within a month of light use.

[Merkava_4]

I'm used to the common type with the pull down collar; who's the originator of that?

[autoace]

Maybe it is time for us to copy the Chinese, lets start with the bath houses, and some fine young women with fans, to keep up cool during our "bathing". Second we will limit how many kids someone can have, to cut down on welfare caes. Third, Merk. can pick up a woman in a Buick, and it would be thought to be the ultimate luxury car.:spit:

[Merkava_4]

Third, Merk. can pick up a woman in a Buick, and it would be thought to be the ultimate luxury car.:spit:

LOL!! :lol:

[fatfillup]

They have yet to copy QUALITY!!!!!!!!

[norry]

They have yet to copy QUALITY!!!!!!!!

Beat me to it.

[GTO]

They have yet to copy QUALITY!!!!!!!!

Truer words were never spoken.

[t100]

totally POS. i bought a pair, leaked, replaced for another pair, still leaked. finally returned them for good.

[chadster1]

I'm used to the common type with the pull down collar; who's the originator of that?

Milton would be my guess.

[48548]

Maybe it is time for us to copy the Chinese, lets start with the bath houses, and some fine young women with fans, to keep up cool during our "bathing". Second we will limit how many kids someone can have, to cut down on welfare caes. Third, Merk. can pick up a woman in a Buick, and it would be thought to be the ultimate luxury car.:spit:

I think we need to start with limiting how many kids people can have, and I will be the first to start no kids from me:lol_hitti

[arkangel06]

I think we need to start with limiting how many kids people can have, and I will be the first to start no kids from me:lol_hitti

Ill second that no kids here

[xroad]

They have yet to copy QUALITY!!!!!!!!

Give it time. Right now, they have no other country competing with them in producing crappy stuff. Once you have other countries like Pakistan, Indonesia, India, or even African countries down the road making craps as well, China will crank up the quality. Japan did that, Taiwan did that .....

[Zrexxer]

There's probably not as much market for them to produce these as in the past:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Zrexxer/Forums/MADEinCHINUSA.jpg

[48548]

Ill second that no kids here

I can't afford kids with my ratchet addiction :thumbup:

[Snappy]

I think it's more like "try to copy". I'll stick with Milton myself.

[HandyManny]

They have yet to copy QUALITY!!!!!!!!

I think a lot of folks could say the same thing about a lot of US made products being produced within the last 20 years or so. We didn't invent everything. There is a lot of what we enjoy today that was introduced, invented or developed by Eastern and Middles Eastern cultures centuries ago. Every nation at various times in history has had their golden moments.

Fortunately for us there are still a few quality Ameican made tool brands still around, but one day soon that will sadly come to an end. :(

[mrpowderkeg]

When communist china companies copy a product, (rip off the design) do they have to pay patent royalties, or anything of that matter?

[Kurt4440]

Cars, trucks, construction equipment...

[srmofo]

the sad part is they are buying all our old equipment from the 50,60,70s and when they figure out how to use it all properly, the usa is fucked. Ive noticed the only things we commonly produce anymore are made of plastic or composites.

[mrjsl]

Cars, trucks, construction equipment...

Well, some years ago, I saw a Chinese copy of a Cat D7 Dozer.

[back2class]

Actually it is part of Chinese culture. Without going into great detail, when I was in college I studied chinese culture and history. It is not a culture that puts much value in innovation or free thinking. The do value repitition and and such. They as a culture have not been innovators but have been copiers. The reason you see them basicaly copy everything is in a big part......cultural. You may see quality increase but the chinese will never be creators of many products or ideas.

[ImportTuner]

They have had them for a while and they are junk. It worked quite well for the 1st few weeks and then mine started leaking at the seams within a month of light use.

I have the Milton's and they did the same thing; maybe the Milton's are made in China .. :(

[mrjsl]

Actually it is part of Chinese culture. Without going into great detail, when I was in college I studied chinese culture and history. It is not a culture that puts much value in innovation or free thinking. The do value repitition and and such. They as a culture have not been innovators but have been copiers. The reason you see them basicaly copy everything is in a big part......cultural. You may see quality increase but the chinese will never be creators of many products or ideas.

I've visited a couple of plants in Asia where they manufacture OE and aftermarket parts for auto & heavy duty equipment. I used to be a filtration expert, so I was looking mainly at filters of all types. They showed me a reverse engineered copy of a rather popular and complicated US made fuel/water separator, and it was perfect, except they had no clue exactly how it worked, or what some of the internal parts were for. They had reproduced it down to the smallest detail, but had little understanding if its function.

While I was on the plane from Hong Kong to LA, I met an American who runs a plant in China that makes ladies purses for department stores. He said they send over a sample, and the chinese build it. But they have to be careful to send a perfect sample, because if there is a flaw in the leather, for example, they will reproduce the flaw best they can.

[xroad]

Actually it is part of Chinese culture. Without going into great detail, when I was in college I studied chinese culture and history. It is not a culture that puts much value in innovation or free thinking. The do value repitition and and such. They as a culture have not been innovators but have been copiers. The reason you see them basicaly copy everything is in a big part......cultural. You may see quality increase but the chinese will never be creators of many products or ideas.

I think you should go back and demand your money back from the college.

Let's see, the compass, gun powder, clock, paper, to name a few.

[makgreens]

the real cheap ones from HF work...like the ones in the crates...maybe thats my luck
but i havent tried the one the OP showed

[makgreens]

and for $10 more you can get the milton one and i couldnt find a country of origin

[HandyManny]

Actually it is part of Chinese culture. Without going into great detail, when I was in college I studied chinese culture and history. It is not a culture that puts much value in innovation or free thinking. The do value repitition and and such. They as a culture have not been innovators but have been copiers. The reason you see them basicaly copy everything is in a big part......cultural. You may see quality increase but the chinese will never be creators of many products or ideas.

There are lots of European cultures that are every bit as closed to free thinking and innovativeness as you're talking about. I studied history a lot when I was in college (didn't major in it). Western civilization copied and borrowed a lot of innovation and inventions from the cultures of the far east and middle east.

As Xroad stated - cock, compass, gun powder, paper, etc. Even the steam engine and propullsion.

[back2class]

I think you should go back and demand your money back from the college.

Let's see, the compass, gun powder, clock, paper, to name a few.

LOl. You may be right except the clock. Honestly, I believe everyone else here realized I was speaking of the culture in general and not trying to quote the stuff we all learned in middle school.

[HandyManny]

LOl. You may be right except the clock. Honestly, I believe everyone else here realized I was speaking of the culture in general and not trying to quote the stuff we all learned in middle school.

Middle School? We had "Junior High" back in those days. :)

No I get what you meant. I just don't believe that everything coming out of China today is junk. Maybe a lot of what we see in discount stores is junk. I would however just be tickled pink if we could get manufacturing, craftsmanship, and production back to what it once was in this country. Right now we don't have room to bash the chinese made stuff. Get things back to the way they used to be in this country and we can bash the Chinese made stuff all we want.

[Monte]

I would rather buy the new Prevost "S1" couplers - you only have to push the button once to release the plug instead of twice like the older ones or the HF copy.

http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/jj347/mrblvd_album/hjkj67.jpg

[xroad]

Let's see, the compass, gun powder, clock, paper, to name a few.

Well, I wanted to see if you guys are paying attention. I was going to put down "internet" but that is too obvious. Besides, everyone knew it was Al Gore that invented the internet so that would not have fly.

That culture thing ..... I find it hard to believe that. That is like the commanders in WW2 telling the American pilots that the Japanese fighter pilots are inferior because they have slanted eyes. Yes, we were more superior but not because they had slanted eyes.

All the Chinese bashing I take it as just bashing. I cannot believe the majority of people here truly believe the Chinese cannot produce quality goods. They have a space program and they have built their COPY of the MIG fighters. You think the quality of those two programs are like the stuff at Harbor Freight? Yes, they stole much of their technologies, which pissed off the Russians to no end, but they did not get their by accident.

They make their crap because it is economically driven.

[tatra]

But they have to be careful to send a perfect sample, because if there is a flaw in the leather, for example, they will reproduce the flaw best they can.

so if we send them snapon instead of craftsman we'll get better quality?....:bounce:

[xroad]

I would however just be tickled pink if we could get manufacturing, craftsmanship, and production back to what it once was in this country.

Same here but I see that as a loosing battle. Not until all the countries in the world raise to the living standard of where we are. There is always going to be a Vietnam, or Pakistan, or some country with cheaper labor than China to take their place. We can built quality goods but only can target a very small market. Majority of the North American buyers will buy the Craftsman as they are today, or worst.

[norry]

They had reproduced it down to the smallest detail, but had little understanding if its function.

This becomes a big issue when material quality is important. There were some cars made as direct copies of Japanese or Korean models (they copied the Chevy Aveo and, of all things, the Isuzu Rodeo) and crash tests showed the Chinese models were much less safe. The reason turned out to be that the original used stronger steel in certain places to 'define' how the car should crumple to protect the occupants. The Chinese factories used the same steel everywhere. Looked the same, worked differently.

And they're plenty capable of being creative. Right now, modern Chinese culture emphasizes misusing that creativity to get away with cheap, unsafe products. It took a lot of creativity to figure out how to game a test for protein by using melamine. Real bad idea, but a very creative one.

[SocketDeviler]

If there's nothing left to copy I'm sure we'll figure out something to sell them so that they can sell it back to us.

[gte718p]

so if we send them snapon instead of craftsman we'll get better quality?....:bounce:

No, but if you sent them a wrench and said I want 1,000,000 copies of this. I am going to do a QA check on each lot. We will reject the lot if of 500 randomn samples have more then 10% out of spec. You will get exactly 50 that are out of spec and the rest will be to spec. Its amazing and it doesn't matter what specs they are. China makes a lot of high quality equipment these days, your just no going to find it a HF.

The problem is companies go to China and say I want a million wrenchs that look like this and I want to pay a dollar each. If they bother to include technical specs they are silly like I want them to be shiny and they don't care about material properties or tolerances. They get exactly what they ask for. HF sells it for 3 dollars, makes 100% proffit and is happy.

[ImportTuner]

I would rather buy the new Prevost "S1" couplers - you only have to push the button once to release the plug instead of twice like the older ones or the HF copy.

http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/jj347/mrblvd_album/hjkj67.jpg

I would if I could find a vendor selling them at a decent price .. :(

[Fedwrench]

Aircraft carriers, M1 Tanks, satellites, Tech 2s, and anythin else ther's a market for...

[Monte]

I would if I could find a vendor selling them at a decent price .. :(

what is a decent price for you ? :) Ultimate Garage has them for 22$ ea. :)

[Mickey O]

When communist china companies copy a product, (rip off the design) do they have to pay patent royalties, or anything of that matter?

They're not supposed to rip off patented products but they do it all the time, just like they sell weapons to enemy countries that are in turn used to kill our service men and women. China does not give a crap about this country other than what they can squeeze out of it. What you are saving in price buy buying Chinese products you are paying for in gas and other commodities as well as getting an inferior product.

I read an article a while back about an American medical device company that was put out of business because China ripped off their product and under-cut them.

I'd only buy Chinese products when it's the only thing available, I'll gladly pay twice. 3x, 4x the price or more for Made in the USA. What China is doing is sending over crap that will end in our land fills, harms our pets and children.

Do a google search for info on that fine quality drywall they sent over here.

[xroad]

In the 1990's, China and Russia do about 2 billion a year in weapons purchase. Then the Chinese would copy the Russian stuff and start selling it in the weapons market. The Russian used to put up with it because they are making some money. Then, a few years ago, it started to really hurt. The Russian put a stop to it and now they won't sell anything to the Chinese. The SU-27 was copied. But they have problem with engine production. Engine technology is another level more difficult than the fighter air frame. SO, they want to buy the SU-33 (same as the SU-27 but mod for Naval carriers take off and landing). First it was a whole $hit load but then, the Chinese wanted just TWO! The Russian said ..... "you think we just fell off a turnip truck?" (or something to that effect) and then killed the whole deal.

China is shopping for engines. If they manage to find someone to sell it to them, the Chinese SU will be on the free market. Yes, the quality is not as good as the real deal, but there will be buyers, just like the crappy tools, there are buyers.

Another example ... Cisco produce telecom equipments. A Chinese company, government owned, copied one of their product exactly down to the logo. We band it for sale in the US. However, the US still do business with this company.

[ImportTuner]

what is a decent price for you ? :) Ultimate Garage has them for 22$ ea. :)

Just looked at them .. I need 1/4" to 1/4" industrial (otherwise known a M connectors) .. any leads?

[Monte]

Benz on top, "Geely" from China below...

http://sunboar.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/mercedes-c-vs-geely-merrie-300-proto.jpg

"Geely" vs. Rolls Royce

http://matchingsocks.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/f233147cacroyce.jpg



more (http://www.plagiat.ch/produkte/auto-kopien-aus-china-gesammelt)

[JohnFreeman]

They're thieves...just industrial thieves. The do a tremendous business in industrial espionage so as to steal our intellectual capital.

I know it may be pissing into the wind but I'd rather buy used American than new Chicom.

[ZRX61]

the sad part is they are buying all our old equipment from the 50,60,70s and when they figure out how to use it all properly, the usa is fucked. Ive noticed the only things we commonly produce anymore are made of plastic or composites.


It's already too late. The knowledge is being lost & the only hope now is they copy the USA by plunging their economy into the crapper.
Maybe the US needs to tell em "those loan bonds are now worthless, tough titty"

[Art From De Leon]

I'm surprised that that 'Geely', doesn't have a RED Star hood emblem.

Fuck the PRC, used American is a hundred times better than anything new from the land of shit heads.

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety, why would they care about the enviornment, patents, quality, or ethics? With 1.5 BILLION people, why should they care if they lose a few thousand a year to industrial accidents, or enviornmental disasters?

Their shipping defective, poisonous products to the west is nothing but a well thought out, well planned method of waging war on their enemies. They have already threatened to nuke us, yet this country stills treats them as a 'friend'.

[ZRX61]

They're thieves...just industrial thieves. The do a tremendous business in industrial espionage so as to steal our intellectual capital.

They don't need to steal it, it's being given to them for free

[chrislehr]

NOT MUCH.

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/04/24/how-to-identify-fake-chicken-eggs/#more-802

[rpsurfr]

If it is any thing like the chinese cut off over my laundry tub that blew apart with 50psi water to it you can keep it
No one ever went broke underestimating the taste ( cheapness) of the American public
We have done ourselves in and we sold out of little money

[HandyManny]

Same here but I see that as a loosing battle. Not until all the countries in the world raise to the living standard of where we are. There is always going to be a Vietnam, or Pakistan, or some country with cheaper labor than China to take their place. We can built quality goods but only can target a very small market. Majority of the North American buyers will buy the Craftsman as they are today, or worst.

The vietnam's and pakistan's would not be a concern to us if corporation were given tax incentives to keep production here. Too bad our government gives these corporations incentives to move production overseas.

[xroad]

The vietnam's and pakistan's would not be a concern to us if corporation were given tax incentives to keep production here. Too bad our government gives these corporations incentives to move production overseas.

Agree again. Too bad many of my friends votes down the party line. I get very pissed at them, both the left wing nut jobs and the right wing nut jobs. They both vote for their party and feel that their party can do no wrong. Yet, they have no understanding of the policies implemented by the politicians both on the right and the left. I keep telling them, this is not a football game where you cheer for your home team. You have to look at the individual issues and decide if you agree with it or not.

I really think all this is stem from the poor education of our citizens. Government needs stupid people to manipulate in order to stay in power. Smart people don't let themselves get snow by smooth talking politicians.

[Snappy]

:+1:.........

I'm surprised that that 'Geely', doesn't have a RED Star hood emblem.

Fuck the PRC, used American is a hundred times better than anything new from the land of shit heads.

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety, why would they care about the enviornment, patents, quality, or ethics? With 1.5 BILLION people, why should they care if they lose a few thousand a year to industrial accidents, or enviornmental disasters?

Their shipping defective, poisonous products to the west is nothing but a well thought out, well planned method of waging war on their enemies. They have already threatened to nuke us, yet this country stills treats them as a 'friend'.

[airdale]

They don't need to steal it, it's being given to them for free
That's been a concern since 1980 when they were granted "Most Favored Nation" trading status. In 2000 it was made permanent. As stated, we give them our most precious resource - technology. Western companies set up factories, production lines, even ship sophisticated production machinery over if what they have isn't good enough. I think it would be naive to think all that technology stays within the confines of the western companies walls. We are teaching them how to make things better. Yeah a lot of stuff is junk, but even that is changing - look at the Harbor Freight Pass/Fail thread. Lots of "passes" being given out. It's like an equilibrium, always seeking the market balance between price vs. quality for the average consumer.

[oldtools]

Actually it is part of Chinese culture. Without going into great detail, when I was in college I studied chinese culture and history. It is not a culture that puts much value in innovation or free thinking. The do value repitition and and such. They as a culture have not been innovators but have been copiers. The reason you see them basicaly copy everything is in a big part......cultural. You may see quality increase but the chinese will never be creators of many products or ideas.

You need to go back to a non-racist and non-bias school. When I was in college, I took a world art history course. The whole semester, the professor only talk about European and American arts. He spent the last 30 minutes on Asian arts (India/Chinese/Iiddle Eastern/etc......). These kind of arrogant attitude is why everybody hate the American. American complacency and arrogance will be its Achille heel. Your beloved Iphone touchscreen is invented by a Taiwanese company. If you could set aside your racism and learn about Chinese history (without bias), you will be surprise. You will also learn that American don't invent everything and they do copy others. Attached ia a Chinese fighter plane that they developed. You tell me that they can make a fighter plane, but yet they can not make tools?

[xroad]

Well said, Oldtools.

When I walked into Walmart, I did not see any one holding guns to our head forcing us to buy Chinese crappy products. All the crappy tools from China, you think they would be in business if the entire North America finds them to be crappy? They make what we ask them to make.

[xroad]

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety ....

Of course they have the concept of safety, they (not the Chinese engineers) just choose to not put it in because it saves cost. The car companies that manufacture cars in China ... Toyota, Honda, Ford, etc. makes the same model that they sell in North America for the Chinese market. Safety standard and emission standard are not the latest spec. Why? because the someone wrote the spec that way. Again, it is economically driven. They will make whatever gets them the most profit. Right now, it is crappy tools because we have the entire North America buying it and no one is competing with them to make it. Give them, or anybody, the right money, they'll produce whatever you want.

BTW, those cheap ass car "clones" are Chinese market cars. You will never find them here in North America. They will not pass emission and crash test. Give them a few years, when the time is right, they will come here and compete with Toyota and Honda, etc. OR, maybe a Chinese made Honda, Toyota ....

[HandyManny]

I'm surprised that that 'Geely', doesn't have a RED Star hood emblem.

Fuck the PRC, used American is a hundred times better than anything new from the land of shit heads.

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety, why would they care about the enviornment, patents, quality, or ethics? With 1.5 BILLION people, why should they care if they lose a few thousand a year to industrial accidents, or enviornmental disasters?

Their shipping defective, poisonous products to the west is nothing but a well thought out, well planned method of waging war on their enemies. They have already threatened to nuke us, yet this country stills treats them as a 'friend'.


Really? You think so? Do you recall a certain tire manufacturer who was exposed some time in 1999 or 2000 for it's lack of integrity and unconcern with safety and ethics? Bridgestone/Firestone! As I recall all those defective tires were made here in the USA. I can find all kinds of ethical issues and lack of safety issues from American owned and operated companies on our soil, but there just isn't room here on this forum to list. Funny how a cow never smells it's own shit. And that not an insult, that just a way of saying before we criticise other countries we should make sure our stuff is in order.

China is no friend of mine. But, by the way, we are the only country to have ever used weapons of mass destruction, did it twice. The world knows that, that's why the Chinese don't mess with us.

[xroad]

I don't need other countries to love my country. I just want them to fear us from a military perspective.

[ZRX61]

Attached ia a Chinese fighter plane that they developed. You tell me that they can make a fighter plane, but yet they can not make tools?

That only flies because the Chinese copied Rolls Royce engine designs...

NEXT! ;)

[ZRX61]

Really? You think so? Do you recall a certain tire manufacturer who was exposed some time in 1999 or 2000 for it's lack of integrity and unconcern with safety and ethics? Bridgestone/Firestone! As I recall all those defective tires were made here in the USA.

That was mostly caused by running truck tires at car pressures to give the drivers a softer ride...

[xroad]

That only flies because the Chinese copied Rolls Royce engine designs...

NEXT! ;)

They copied the entire SU27 but cannot get the engine right. None the less, it takes skill to copy a fighter. So it is a little different from "they don't know how to make tools".

[48548]

Reading this stuff really makes me sad about the state our country is in.... I try to never go to walmart and when I do it is to buy mobil 1 oil. I will have to think twice before I by something from china, but what about taiwan? Japan? I am going to have to make my TV last as it was an american made Pioneer. This really depressed me because I guess I didn't know or want to think about companies reverse engineering our stuff.

[mrpowderkeg]

I would rather purchase something made in Japan than china, If I cannot purchase a TV made in America, then I'll look to Japan next. Mexico is on my sh*t list too. Too bad since a bunch of MSD ignition products are made in mexico. At least the Dick Cepek tires I ordered are made in the USA... If not I'll be pissed, as I emailed the company asking where they are made... otherwise I wouldn't have purchased them.

[HandyManny]

That was mostly caused by running truck tires at car pressures to give the drivers a softer ride...

As I recall there was a lot more to it than that. Had also to do with Ford and what they were specifying in the tires. More of a design flaw. Either way someone at Ford or Firestone wasn't so concerned with safety. And we critcise the Chinese for this type of stuff.

[HandyManny]

I would rather purchase something made in Japan than china, If I cannot purchase a TV made in America, then I'll look to Japan next. Mexico is on my sh*t list too. Too bad since a bunch of MSD ignition products are made in mexico. At least the Dick Cepek tires I ordered are made in the USA... If not I'll be pissed, as I emailed the company asking where they are made... otherwise I wouldn't have purchased them.


The Japanese make some pretty darn good stuff. As a culture they are not very tolerant of slackers.

[JohnFreeman]

"Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?"

Ethics.

[ZRX61]

As I recall there was a lot more to it than that. Had also to do with Ford and what they were specifying in the tires. More of a design flaw. Either way someone at Ford or Firestone wasn't so concerned with safety. And we critcise the Chinese for this type of stuff.


True, but the tire psi called for was lower than for a truck the same weight.. & we all know what happens when you run tires underinflated: heat, followed by failure....
I think my dually calls for 55psi..

[Defender Chassis]

True, but the tire psi called for was lower than for a truck the same weight.. & we all know what happens when you run tires underinflated: heat, followed by failure....
I think my dually calls for 55psi..

I kinda remember something about a vibration that was inherent to those Explorers that Ford could not figure out so they lowered the tire pressure and that solved the problem. The real problem was that the specified (albeit lower) tire pressure was really close to the danger zone so in the winter you did not have to have much of a temp drop to get in to trouble. Most incidents were when people went on a trip and did not bother to check their tires. Not much heat buildup in short trips around town.

Something I do not understand about the Firestone deal is: in the 60's and 70's there were lots of retreads coming off and nobody lost control then. Are we not as good a driver as we used to be?

[HandyManny]

Something I do not understand about the Firestone deal is: in the 60's and 70's there were lots of retreads coming off and nobody lost control then. Are we not as good a driver as we used to be?


As I recall 70 mph to 100 mph were not real common speeds that most people travel at back then when driving passenger type vehicles, even on the highways. Maybe that had something to do with it.

[Moose-LandTran]

"Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?"

Ethics.

Ha! Good luck with that..

[HandyManny]

"Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?"

Ethics.

Ha Ha! I wouldn't even go there. A topic like that could fill volumes, and not just about the Chinese either.

[J.A.F.E.]

Really? You think so? Do you recall a certain tire manufacturer who was exposed some time in 1999 or 2000 for it's lack of integrity and unconcern with safety and ethics? Bridgestone/Firestone! As I recall all those defective tires were made here in the USA. I can find all kinds of ethical issues and lack of safety issues from American owned and operated companies on our soil, but there just isn't room here on this forum to list. Funny how a cow never smells it's own shit. And that not an insult, that just a way of saying before we criticise other countries we should make sure our stuff is in order.

China is no friend of mine. But, by the way, we are the only country to have ever used weapons of mass destruction, did it twice. The world knows that, that's why the Chinese don't mess with us.


Bridgestone/Firestone is a japanese company.

[xroad]

"Is there anything left for the Chinese to copy?"

Ethics.

That's right. All I hear and read about are corrupt Chinese officials. I have never heard of an American politician or American corporate officials or even any Americans found to be corrupt. That is why I vote Repubmicarat, and send my money to, what's that guys's name?, Madoff?

Come on, don't paint things with such a broad [Chinese made] brush.

[airdale]

That's right. All I hear and read about are corrupt Chinese officials. I have never heard of an American politician or American corporate officials or even any Americans found to be corrupt. That is why I vote Repubmicarat, and send my money to, what's that guys's name?, Madoff?

Come on, don't paint things with such a broad [Chinese made] brush.
Yeah, why do you think unions were started here? Read about the working conditions and child labor that was unbelievable in many companies here 100 years ago. Oops, there goes another can of worms.

[ImportTuner]

Bridgestone/Firestone is a japanese company.

Is now .. Firestone was American until Bridgestone took it over ..

[xroad]

I just realize the discussion of them dang Cha-neeze is a common theme, along discussion of American made, or not. It is getting old. Seems like we beat this dead horse for so long. I rather talk about tools, Chinese or not, base on it's quality, or quality per price, without all the baggage.

[Merkava_4]

I just realize the discussion of them dang Cha-neeze is a common theme, along discussion of American made, or not. It is getting old. Seems like we beat this dead horse for so long. I rather talk about tools, Chinese or not, base on it's quality, or quality per price, without all the baggage.


You can blame me for it - I love bashing the Chinese. :evil:

[xroad]

You can blame me for it - I love bashing the Chinese. :evil:

That is fine. My fault too, I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view. But when the discussions goes beyond bashing and reach borderline racist comments, I am not so comfortable anymore.

[Merkava_4]

That is fine. My fault too, I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view. But when the discussions goes beyond bashing and reach borderline racist comments, I am not so comfortable anymore.


It depends on how you interpret people's comments. None of us on here are racists; it's just that we don't like the Chinese trade practices.

[oldtools]

I'm surprised that that 'Geely', doesn't have a RED Star hood emblem.

Fuck the PRC, used American is a hundred times better than anything new from the land of shit heads.

Look at it this way, the chicoms have NO concept of safety, why would they care about the enviornment, patents, quality, or ethics? With 1.5 BILLION people, why should they care if they lose a few thousand a year to industrial accidents, or enviornmental disasters?

Their shipping defective, poisonous products to the west is nothing but a well thought out, well planned method of waging war on their enemies. They have already threatened to nuke us, yet this country stills treats them as a 'friend'.

The US never treated China as friend. The US only want Chinese money (2 trillions).

[xroad]

It depends on how you interpret people's comments. None of us on here are racists; it's just that we don't like the Chinese trade practices.

Please don't misunderstand. I am not implying that everyone, or majority, or even many, or more than a few, are racist. In the past, there were a few racist comments I had encountered in this forum. Many were meant to be funny but definitely crossing the line. I called out the person and he quickly deleted the comments.

[oldtools]

It's already too late. The knowledge is being lost & the only hope now is they copy the USA by plunging their economy into the crapper.
Maybe the US needs to tell em "those loan bonds are now worthless, tough titty"

Watch. They will avoid risky US treasury note and invest their money by buying up US companies and properties. Watch out Snap On.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1882594,00.html

[J.A.F.E.]

Is now .. Firestone was American until Bridgestone took it over ..


Firestone was bought by Bridgestone in 1988. Bridgestone has always been japanese.

[oldtools]

That only flies because the Chinese copied Rolls Royce engine designs...

NEXT! ;)

The indigenously developed Chengdu J-10 fighter currently used a Russian engine (Salyut AL-31FN) but will be replaced by an indigenously developed engine (WS-12 Taishan). Don't forget the US got its jet engine technology from the British and its rocket technology from the German. After WWII, the US brought back tons of German war machinery and copied them. The US has its own version of the German V2 and V1 rockets. It copied the German flying wing. It got German swept wing and forward wing technologies, wire guided missile technology, etc.

[Merkava_4]

The Chinese can build a fighter jet yes, but can they build a combination wrench anywhere near the quality of Snap-on or Cornwell? Hell no!! :D

[Snappy]

The indigenously developed Chengdu J-10 fighter currently used a Russian engine (Salyut AL-31FN) but will be replaced by an indigenously developed engine (WS-12 Taishan). Don't forget the US got its jet engine technology from the British and its rocket technology from the German. After WWII, the US brought back tons of German war machinery and copied them. The US has its own version of the German V2 and V1 rockets. It copied the German flying wing. It got German swept wing and forward wing technologies, wire guided missile technology, etc.

Did they build those jets with Chinese tools ?

[mikeceli]

Did they build those jets with Chinese tools ?


I have wondered that, myself.

[oldtools]

Did they build those jets with Chinese tools ?

Yes and no. China do have a heavy machinery industry, but I am pretty sure they use foreign machineries as well. So is everybody. US aerospace industry use heavy machinery from all over the world (especially from Japan).

[oldtools]

The Chinese can build a fighter jet yes, but can they build a combination wrench anywhere near the quality of Snap-on or Cornwell? Hell no!! :D

If you are willing to pay for it, they can built better than SO. Aren't they already making ratchets for SO? Tool making is one of the lowest tech industry.

[oldtools]

They copied the entire SU27 but cannot get the engine right. None the less, it takes skill to copy a fighter. So it is a little different from "they don't know how to make tools".

They never copy the SU-27. They licensed to build them in China for the Chinese military. The US licensed (from the British) to build the Harrier, Goshawk, and Canberra for the US military. Same situation.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-11.htm

[Merkava_4]

If you are willing to pay for it, they can built better than SO. Aren't they already making ratchets for SO? Tool making is one of the lowest tech industry.

HaHa... if you've ever watched some if the "How it's made" videos featuring Snap-on tools, you wouldn't say tool making is low tech. The machinery they use to produce tools are state of the art. Cornwell uses some state of the art machinery too. :D

The only ratchets Snap-on supplies that are made in Taiwan are their Blue-Point line; those aren't Snap-on tools.

[oldtools]

Reading this stuff really makes me sad about the state our country is in.... I try to never go to walmart and when I do it is to buy mobil 1 oil. I will have to think twice before I by something from china, but what about taiwan? Japan? I am going to have to make my TV last as it was an american made Pioneer. This really depressed me because I guess I didn't know or want to think about companies reverse engineering our stuff.

Sorry to disappoint you, but Pioneer is Japanese. I don't think there is any American TV maker left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Corporation

Sony (Japan)
Pioneer (Japan)
Sharp (Japan)
Panasonic (Japan)
Toshiba (Japan)
Mitsubishi (Japan)
NEC (Japan)
Hitachi (Japan)
Fujitsu (Japan)
JVC (Japan)
Sanyo (Japan)
Samsung (Korean)
LG (Korean)
Daewoo (Korean)
Hyundai (Korean)
Emprex (Chinese)
Emerson (Chinese)
Phillip/Magnovox (Dutch)
GE/RCA (French)

[JohnFreeman]

"I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view."

Until your company loses proprietary information to their theft, and you lose your job.

[NUTTSGT]

What's left to copy ?

human rights
child labor laws
EPA standards
OSHA standards

probably about anything else that would actually cost them money (less profit) to follow for safer and higher quality products.

[xroad]

"I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view."

Until your company loses proprietary information to their theft, and you lose your job.

Let me clarify ... I defend them from a LEGAL economic/business point of view. Not theft. Selling and buying crappy tool is still legal. Of course I know about their theft. I talked about clone Cisco router in the telecom business. US slap them on the wrist and continue to do business. Reason is that the company is a huge. Product span from heavy military hardware to consumer electronic products. Believe me, I know about job lost. I have survived countless layoffs and mergers that resulted in tons of jobs going over to China and India. That still do not make selling crap and buying crap illegal. I bash only where it needs bashing.

[HandyManny]

Bridgestone/Firestone is a japanese company.

I don't believe any of those tires were made in Japan. Ford's an American company, they were involved.

My point is that people talk about ethics as if only the lesser third world countries don't have any. I've worked in the trades in our own country. Not to mension I've lived on this Earth long enough to know just how unethical a great many of our fellow Americans can be. I can write a book about the unethical stuff I witnessed within our own industry and stuff I refused to be a part of. That explains why I never worked for some of these small operations for very long.

Anyone here ever work as a tech for a car dealership?

[xroad]

They never copy the SU-27. They licensed to build them in China for the Chinese military. The US licensed (from the British) to build the Harrier, Goshawk, and Canberra for the US military. Same situation.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-11.htm

Didn't the Russian killed a deal recently because they were pissed off at the constant theft of technologies from the previous SU-27 deal?

[48548]

Ill second that no kids here

Sorry to disappoint you, but Pioneer is Japanese. I don't think there is any American TV maker left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Corporation

Sony (Japan)
Pioneer (Japan)
Sharp (Japan)
Panasonic (Japan)
Toshiba (Japan)
Mitsubishi (Japan)
NEC (Japan)
Hitachi (Japan)
Fujitsu (Japan)
JVC (Japan)
Sanyo (Japan)
Samsung (Korean)
LG (Korean)
Daewoo (Korean)
Hyundai (Korean)
Emprex (Chinese)
Emerson (Chinese)
Phillip/Magnovox (Dutch)
GE/RCA (French)



Yes it is, but my TV was made or at the very least assembled in the usa by the sticker on the back. So yes a japan company got my money, but it also helped keep americans in work here. The tv was to big to ship or maybe to fragile so they put them together here. If I really wanted to be a jerk, I would have bought something totally made over seas to make sure the guy down the street would lose his job.

[Mickey O]

Sorry to disappoint you, but Pioneer is Japanese. I don't think there is any American TV maker left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Corporation

Sony (Japan)
Pioneer (Japan)
Sharp (Japan)
Panasonic (Japan)
Toshiba (Japan)
Mitsubishi (Japan)
NEC (Japan)
Hitachi (Japan)
Fujitsu (Japan)
JVC (Japan)
Sanyo (Japan)
Samsung (Korean)
LG (Korean)
Daewoo (Korean)
Hyundai (Korean)
Emprex (Chinese)
Emerson (Chinese)
Phillip/Magnovox (Dutch)
GE/RCA (French)

There was an American TV company, I saw them on a TV show, it was about how they won a lawsuit because the Chinese were price fixing to put them out of business.

[48548]

I am glad that I still have my 51 chevy everything on it was made here, to bad the gas probably wasn't....:lol_hitti

[old salvage]

Round & round we go !!!

http://photos.somd.com/data/500/carousel.jpg

[mrpowderkeg]

"I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view."

So devaluing their dollar on purpose, stealing intellectual property/designs, selling sub-quality products that fail to perform under normal use, selling products harmful to their customers (lead paint in kid's toys, don't forget the chinese drywall), producing and manufacturing products with an intentionally expendable workforce, and don't forget the enviromental mess they will have on their hands... all to unfairly compete with global markets, and hence put others out of business. They are doing this at a great future cost to themselves... You consider this defendable from a economic/business point of view?

[xroad]

There was an American TV company, I saw them on a TV show, it was about how they won a lawsuit because the Chinese were price fixing to put them out of business.

Protectionism, and doing things that bucks the laws of economics, usually back fires at some point. Look at what the Japanese were doing to us in the 80's with the computer DRAM memory, and other industries. In the end, their economy collapsed. I am not saying that was THE cause but screwing around like that usually screw yourself. Japan economy was never the same again. After decades, have they really recovered?

[benjamming]

Sorry to disappoint you, but Pioneer is Japanese. I don't think there is any American TV maker left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Corporation

Predicta TV is made in USA. However, I don't think they are currently shipping.

[xroad]

"I defend the Chinese from an economic/business point of view."

So devaluing their dollar on purpose, stealing intellectual property/designs, selling sub-quality products that fail to perform under normal use, selling products harmful to their customers (lead paint in kid's toys, don't forget the chinese drywall), producing and manufacturing products with an intentionally expendable workforce, and don't forget the enviromental mess they will have on their hands... all to unfairly compete with global markets, and hence put others out of business. They are doing this at a great future cost to themselves... You consider this defendable from a economic/business point of view?

Mrpowderkeg, of course not. Maybe you miss my post at post #96 (see paragraph below)... I am speaking in regard to the crappy tools, not the melemine or the lead in their baby food. That question need not even be ask. I just see that they have a $shit load of crappy tools and we in North America buy them up. Until my penis fall off from using their wrench, I don't have too much complaints. If the tool is good, I buy it. If it is crap, I don't buy it. All I am saying is some importer specs crap, they make crap, we buy crap. It is not entirely the fault of the Chinese.

from post #96:

Let me clarify ... I defend them from a LEGAL economic/business point of view. Not theft. Selling and buying crappy tool is still legal. Of course I know about their theft. I talked about clone Cisco router in the telecom business. US slap them on the wrist and continue to do business. Reason is that the company is a huge. Product span from heavy military hardware to consumer electronic products. Believe me, I know about job lost. I have survived countless layoffs and mergers that resulted in tons of jobs going over to China and India. That still do not make selling crap and buying crap illegal. I bash only where it needs bashing.

[mrpowderkeg]

Tools are simple devices, a wrench forged in china, is still made with chinese steal smelted in a dirty chinese smelter using our scrap steal, what you get is a cheap and inferior wrench, and the waste is dumped into a river for all the locals to enjoy, hence their expendable workforce. BUT I do agree with you, we, do buy them (the tools). If there was no market for them, I guess they would be out of business.

[HandyManny]

Predicta TV is made in USA. However, I don't think they are currently shipping.


Never heard of them. Who's selling them and who's buying them.

It's a lot like some of the makers you see on those websites of companies who still make stuff here in USA. A lot of their products are very hard to find anywhere. Plus what they do make isn't made in enough volume to satisfy the market.

Also Just because something says "Made in USA" that does not mean it's a badge of quality or reliability. More true today than it has ever been.

[HandyManny]

Tools are simple devices, a wrench forged in china, is still made with chinese steal smelted in a dirty chinese smelter using our scrap steal, what you get is a cheap and inferior wrench, and the waste is dumped into a river for all the locals to enjoy, hence their expendable workforce. BUT I do agree with you, we, do buy them (the tools). If there was no market for them, I guess they would be out of business.

Americans buy them because no US manufacturer today (besides Channellock) is making a reasonably good quality tool that sells to you and me at a fair, honest, and reasonable price. A lot of good American made tools are simply not as easily obtainable as they once were either. I can't find anything from Proto or Wright that sells locally or is stocked in my area locally. Everything I buy from those companies has to be ordered from somewhere else. The US manufacturers have abandoned that market. I'm not aware of any local auto parts stores today that is selling good quality American made tools right off the shelf. Even NAPA keeps all the good stuff out of sight.

I'm not talking about Snap-On, MAC, Cornwell, or Matco - dealers that show up at your place of business. I'm also not talking about Proto, Wright, S-K, etc. I'm talking about good quality hand tools that are US made that are easily and readily available to the general public from any outlet. Channellock and some Craftsman stuff is the only things that comes to mind. Other than that the Chinese stuff has filled that void.

Undertand this guys. Americans never voluntarily stopped buying good quality American made products. We just simply started buying what was made readily available to us when those good USA manufacturers abandoned us and the market. It was never because of consumer demand that we ended up have Chinese made stuff being offered to us.

If you ask me there is one big thing the Chinese haven't been able to copy yet - Working themselves out of a job! That something that most Americans and most American corporations have mastered completely. As long as we keep doing it so well, the Chinese won't ever have to.

[xroad]

Tools are simple devices, a wrench forged in china, is still made with chinese steal smelted in a dirty chinese smelter using our scrap steal, what you get is a cheap and inferior wrench, and the waste is dumped into a river for all the locals to enjoy, hence their expendable workforce. BUT I do agree with you, we, do buy them (the tools). If there was no market for them, I guess they would be out of business.

All the $shit they do is indefensible. My friend had to go deep into the sticks inside China to scope out some site for a potential factory. My friend is from Maine! The air at this region is so bad that his eyes got a rash and an infection. Local water out of the tap is grey. Bottle water taste funny. He got out of there fast and told his boss he want nothing to do with the project. He advise his company that if they don't care about the Chinese people in the town, at least care about the people (managers and technical specialists) sent there from the California parent company. He don't want to add to the misery of the people in that village. Yet, the people there have nowhere to go. They welcome the possibility of more jobs that will raise their standard of living. They just don't have the time to think about tomorrow's illness. They are worrying about feeding their family today.

As for the crappy tool with inferior steel, as a consumer, if the thing breaks while I am using it, I don't care because I did not pay much, and I did not expect much. If my fancy way too expensive Nepros wrench or Snap On wrench breaks, I would care because my expectation is higher.

When you get into the human side of things, we all have to struggle with our moral compass. For the people of the village. They have chosen. What should WE do? Take their factory away? Let them drink the water? Demand the safety standard to be raised, and they'll loose the factories to another miserable town, or another country (India, Pakistan, Vietnam, etc). There is no simple answer.

Many years ago, there was a village in Vietnam. Most of the women are prostitutes. A factory opened, and they quit selling themselves and worked in the factory. Some well intentioned American group protest the company about working conditions. The factory owners finally caved and shut the place down. The women went back to prostitution.

If we care about the people, I believe strong trade will eventually raise their standard of living to a point where they won't put up with bad air, grey water, and sickness and death form chemical pollution. Where do we draw the line? If we don't do it, some other country will take over the empty space in the market and will import that same crappy tool, made in China, imported from Paskistan (or where ever). In the end, we still won't get our tool factory jobs back. No easy answers.

[benjamming]

Handy,

I wasn't saying Predicta is the next powerhouse in TV mfg or that they will even survive. I was simply pointing out that there appears to be a company trying to make a TV in USA. How much of it is, I haven't a clue as they aren't viable enough yet for me to dig that deep. Just a point of interest post, nothing more.

Carry on.

[HandyManny]

Handy,

I wasn't saying Predicta is the next powerhouse in TV mfg or that they will even survive. I was simply pointing out that there appears to be a company trying to make a TV in USA. How much of it is, I haven't a clue as they aren't viable enough yet for me to dig that deep. Just a point of interest post, nothing more.

Carry on.

And I'm thrilled to hear that there is a US manufacturer of Televisions. I was just commenting how there are lot's of products still made here, just not in the volume to satsify the market. And a lot of what is still made here isn't anywhere near the quality level that once existed in American manufacturing. All I'm saying is that "Made in the USA" isn't an indication of high quality anymore. We used to produce some damn fine products in this country. Not the case here anymore. Hopefully that TV maker can make a go of it successfully.:thumbup:

[mrpowderkeg]

I don't know were you are sourcing your tools from, but here in the middle of no where, where no one seems to want to live (North Dakota) I can get wright, SK, Proto, Snapon, Craftsman, Mac, etc... But the trick is, is that you have to look for the right stores, they don't openly advertise. Basically find out where your larger industries buy their tools from, and go there.

[HandyManny]

I don't know were you are sourcing your tools from, but here in the middle of no where, where no one seems to want to live (North Dakota) I can get wright, SK, Proto, Snapon, Craftsman, Mac, etc... But the trick is, is that you have to look for the right stores, they don't openly advertise. Basically find out where your larger industries buy their tools from, and go there.

I've tried. Even contacted a local construction and industrial supply outlet. They told me that they do sell Proto, but don't stock it locally. Even they said they'd have to order it. The guy commented that he didn't think I'd be able to find anything from Proto locally. Local Fastenal warehouses, MSC warehouses, Tool & Anchor store all said it would have to be ordered as they don't stock anything from Wright or Proto locally. I do have a source for S-K tools, but that place is a bit too pricey. In any case I have all the stuff I need, just sometimes have to replace some lost or borrowed stuff. A person shouldn't have to jump leaps and bounds just to buy good quality American made tools. But MSC has always been good to deal with when ordering some of my Proto stuff.

[J.A.F.E.]

I don't believe any of those tires were made in Japan. Ford's an American company, they were involved.


I have no idea where the tires were made. Regardless, Firetstone is a Japanese brand since 1988. Bridgestone was founded in japan in the 30's sometime and bought Firestone in 1988. I had those tires on my 1990 Bronco II which were OEM when I bought it new. I had 5 of tires come apart on me in some time less than two years. The warranty didn't cover any of it either. I did not roll over or flip. After #5 I just replaced them all with a different brand and never had another problem. Bridgestone in my opinion shifted the blame to Ford and got away with it.

[krusty the clown]

Bridgestone in my opinion shifted the blame to Ford and got away with it.

i believe ford took the blame even though it was a firestone problem. as part of the deal ford got a lot of firstone exec's and right after started the "quicklane" and "around the wheel" programs.

[Merkava_4]

Americans buy them because no US manufacturer today (besides Channellock) is making a reasonably good quality tool that sells to you and me at a fair, honest, and reasonable price. A lot of good American made tools are simply not as easily obtainable as they once were either. I can't find anything from Proto or Wright that sells locally or is stocked in my area locally. Everything I buy from those companies has to be ordered from somewhere else. The US manufacturers have abandoned that market. I'm not aware of any local auto parts stores today that is selling good quality American made tools right off the shelf. Even NAPA keeps all the good stuff out of sight.

I'm not talking about Snap-On, MAC, Cornwell, or Matco - dealers that show up at your place of business. I'm also not talking about Proto, Wright, S-K, etc. I'm talking about good quality hand tools that are US made that are easily and readily available to the general public from any outlet. Channellock and some Craftsman stuff is the only things that comes to mind. Other than that the Chinese stuff has filled that void.

Undertand this guys. Americans never voluntarily stopped buying good quality American made products. We just simply started buying what was made readily available to us when those good USA manufacturers abandoned us and the market. It was never because of consumer demand that we ended up have Chinese made stuff being offered to us.

If you ask me there is one big thing the Chinese haven't been able to copy yet - Working themselves out of a job! That something that most Americans and most American corporations have mastered completely. As long as we keep doing it so well, the Chinese won't ever have to.


You have to go into the industrialized zones to find the good tools.

I've got Home Depot and Lowes within a block of me, but I find it WAY more convenient for me to cruise down the freeway 10 miles to Gordon Industrial or Johnston Industrial because they're right off the freeway I can LITERALLY park in front of their door. I get out of my car, walk about 12 steps and I'm at the front counter with mouth watering tools all around me.

What town do you live in? I'd be happy to run a yellow pages search and find you some good local suppliers.

[Nealcrenshaw]

SAD!! But true

[Snappy]

SAD!! But true


Very sad. I hate picking up an item with the USA flag on the front & turning it over to see "made in China".

[oldtools]

Didn't the Russian killed a deal recently because they were pissed off at the constant theft of technologies from the previous SU-27 deal?

Show me a link.

[oldtools]

Americans buy them because no US manufacturer today (besides Channellock) is making a reasonably good quality tool that sells to you and me at a fair, honest, and reasonable price. A lot of good American made tools are simply not as easily obtainable as they once were either. I can't find anything from Proto or Wright that sells locally or is stocked in my area locally. Everything I buy from those companies has to be ordered from somewhere else. The US manufacturers have abandoned that market. I'm not aware of any local auto parts stores today that is selling good quality American made tools right off the shelf. Even NAPA keeps all the good stuff out of sight.

I'm not talking about Snap-On, MAC, Cornwell, or Matco - dealers that show up at your place of business. I'm also not talking about Proto, Wright, S-K, etc. I'm talking about good quality hand tools that are US made that are easily and readily available to the general public from any outlet. Channellock and some Craftsman stuff is the only things that comes to mind. Other than that the Chinese stuff has filled that void.

Undertand this guys. Americans never voluntarily stopped buying good quality American made products. We just simply started buying what was made readily available to us when those good USA manufacturers abandoned us and the market. It was never because of consumer demand that we ended up have Chinese made stuff being offered to us.

If you ask me there is one big thing the Chinese haven't been able to copy yet - Working themselves out of a job! That something that most Americans and most American corporations have mastered completely. As long as we keep doing it so well, the Chinese won't ever have to.

Very good point. They are just catering to a market that American companies are not interested in.

[oldtools]

I am glad that I still have my 51 chevy everything on it was made here, to bad the gas probably wasn't....:lol_hitti

What about replacement parts?

[oldtools]

HaHa... if you've ever watched some if the "How it's made" videos featuring Snap-on tools, you wouldn't say tool making is low tech. The machinery they use to produce tools are state of the art. Cornwell uses some state of the art machinery too. :D

The only ratchets Snap-on supplies that are made in Taiwan are their Blue-Point line; those aren't Snap-on tools.

The basic of tool making have not been changed for thousand of years. Take a piece of metal, pound it, heat it, then quench it. The ancient did it by hammering it, then put in a furnance, then hammer it again, and then quench it in water. It is no different today except manual labor is replaced by machine.

[oldtools]

Well, I wanted to see if you guys are paying attention. I was going to put down "internet" but that is too obvious. Besides, everyone knew it was Al Gore that invented the internet so that would not have fly.

That culture thing ..... I find it hard to believe that. That is like the commanders in WW2 telling the American pilots that the Japanese fighter pilots are inferior because they have slanted eyes. Yes, we were more superior but not because they had slanted eyes.

All the Chinese bashing I take it as just bashing. I cannot believe the majority of people here truly believe the Chinese cannot produce quality goods. They have a space program and they have built their COPY of the MIG fighters. You think the quality of those two programs are like the stuff at Harbor Freight? Yes, they stole much of their technologies, which pissed off the Russians to no end, but they did not get their by accident.

They make their crap because it is economically driven.

I agree. The tools they make are economically driven and not due to lack of ability. Would anyone willing to pay $150 for a Chinese ratchet even if it is 5 times better than Snap On? Probably not. The Chinese will not invest in a product no one willing to pay for it. We can ask the same question about Sears. Would anybody willing to pay $150 for a Craftsman ratchet even if it is much better than Snap On? Probably not. That explain why Sears did not make a $150 ratchet (same for the Chinese).

In the plastic model industry, people care more about qaulity than country of origin and willing to pay top dollar for it. As such the Chinese responds by providing high quality plastic model kits. The Chinese company (Trumpeter) compete against the best from Japan (Tamiya, Hasagawa, Fujimi, etc). Dragon (Hong Kong), AFV (Taiwan), and Academy (Korea) also make very high qaulity model kit. Ironically, the US make some of the lowest quality model kits. Even the Russian company Zvezda begin to make better product than the US.

[xroad]

Show me a link.

Don't have a link. Read it in a "military design journal", some trade journal, while I was waiting for an interview at Lockheed Aerospace's lobby.

Russia was suppose to sell the Chinese some big number of a later design SU-xx.
Then the Chinese said they just want to buy two for now and the rest later. The Russian, given the Chinese history of stealing Russian technologies, and selling the copies on the arms market, competing with the original, got very suspicious and kill the deal. I read this way back a while ago. My quickly diminishing aged brain cells may remember what I've read as slightly clouded. If I stumbled more on this on the web, I'll shoot you the link. This saga is not over.

UPDATE: Talked to my friend, another aged induced memory challenged guy ...

The deal was to sell 50 SU-33, a modified SU-27 for carrier launch. Chinese are already building SU-27 under license but after 95 out of the 200 deal were built, the Russian cancelled because the Chinese were transferring the SU-27 technology to their J-11 fighter, a Chinese brew fighter. The J-11 is having trouble getting off the ground because of engine built quality. Easier to do airframes than engines. So, when the Chinese proposed to buy two SU-33 initially, for "evaluation", the Russian know where this is going so they kill the deal.