Name of Model of Craftsman Late '80's Gray Ratchets and Sockets??

[Here2Learn]

Hi. Does anyone know the model name of the following late 1980's Craftsman ratchet handles and sockets? The particular model I am asking about was a gray ratchet handle with a rubber insert. It had a metal gear on top you could turn with your thumb. The sockets had a rubber (knurled-ish) ring around them with a size label. They were chrome sockets.

Thanks for any help!

[wantedabiggergarage]

The Craftsman rubber handle ones were either marked Stainless, or Lifetime. I don't know that they had a model number, nor am I aware of another name, the two above are what I normally find the ratchets under (never found with sockets).

[Here2Learn]

Thanks for the information!

Are you saying you have some of these?

I know I still have one of the sockets. I think I lost the ratchet somewhere between then and now.

[wantedabiggergarage]

No, I don't have any. They bring too much money for me to buy one (never been lucky). See them on $$$$Ebay, and we had some other brand, that was the same (but broken) in a work box.

[Here2Learn]

Well, dang. I was thinking about buying one. I wasn't looking to break the bank, though. That's weird that it would bring a price.

Thanks again for the information.

[Bull]

There has been one of these ratchets for sale here in the classifieds within the last few months, and also a thread about this ratchet style. One member posted pics of his ratchet and matching sockets.

As I recall from that thread, someone mentioned that these do not always sell for big money.

[supertooljunkie]

Those were the stainless steel models. They only lasted 2-4 years. I wanted a set, but could never afford them. Then they went away.

[wantedabiggergarage]

someone mentioned that these do not always sell for big money.


That is the truth, and patience is the key. Those ratchets are NOT something I search for on a regular basis. They are WAY down on my tool list, so when I search, I seem to find the high ones.

That said, I have a V selector, long handle 1/2" drive model Craftsman, that has been said to go for good money on Ebay, yet I never have seen one on it. I gave $15 for it, and am happy with it, but IF I see them appearing and what they go for, it may sell to get a more used tool. (let the good collector examples go to someone who will appreciate it, I want to USE tools)

[Tool Pants]

I have started to collect "old" Craftsman stuff, including V selectors.

Here is the SS and matching sockets in the catalog. I had no interest when they originally came out. Then I bought a bunch of the banded sockets at the flea market. Then I recently bought a 3/8" SS ratchet from Draftpick.

[lauver]

TP,

Didn't know you had the SS ratchet, but I should have guessed. Can you post some photo's with all the stamping details (MN, series code, patent number, etc)? The OEM of these ratchets is still a mystery.

Thanks.


Here2Learn,

These ratchets were only sold for two short years and were not big sellers; hence, they are rare and usually command big buck$. You might get lucky and find one in a pawn shop or garage sale for a reasonable price though.

The sockets with the plastic bands on them are not rare or high value. I see them at flea markets and pawn shops all the time for $0.25 - $1.00 a piece, depending on size. They appear to be Stanley Works made chrome plated crap...probably Taiwanese sourced. The plastic bands say made in USA, but the sockets themselves don't make that claim.

Oh, and welcome to the GJ...I see you are new.

[lauver]

No, I don't have any. They bring too much money for me to buy one (never been lucky). See them on $$$$Ebay, and we had some other brand, that was the same (but broken) in a work box.

wantabigger,

Do you still have the "other brand ratchet" that is similar to the Crafty? If so, can you post photos?

Do you remember the brand? Any info appreciated.


Thanks

[Tool Pants]

There are 2 patent numbers. Both by David S. Colvin, who has a lot of patents. One issued on 12/4/84 and the other on 12/30/86. If someone could find out if these these patents were assigned, that would be a clue as to who made that style ratchet.

[KLars1]

That things is mint, very nice.

[lauver]

TP,

You done good on that ratchet purchase. The best one I've ever seen; a "10".

Your photo's, though excellent, yield no new clues. And, there was not even a series code stamped on that thing...damn it. Can you find any evidence of a series code anywhere on the ratchet?

[Tool Pants]

There is nothing on the ratchet to indicate who made it, unless the 7 between "PAT." and "U.S.A." on the rubber grip means something.

When you search under David S. Colvin he has a bunch of tool patents. There is also a David Colvin with computer related patents. Must be the same guy because the address for all the Colvin patents I looked at were Oakland County, Michigan.

He sued Danaher.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/86/86.F3d.1179.95-1473.95-1461.html

I believe his computer related company is z4 Technologies, and you see computer stuff patents in his name that were assigned to z4.

For readers that are better at searching than me, the 2 patent numbers are 4,485,700 and 4,631,988, both under the name of Davis S. Colvin.

http://www.z4.com/index.php

His z4 company sued Microsoft.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20080204/SUB/802040306

Quite an inventor. If there was contact info on the z4 site I would ask him who produced the SS/lifetime ratchets.

As far as I can determine the sockets with the black plastic bands showed up at the same time as the SS ratchet with the black plastic grip. I removed the band from one of the sockets and it has a 7 stamped on it. Since there is a 7 on the socket and ratchet then maybe that is a clue.

[Here2Learn]

Thank you to everyone for all the additional information.

Tool Pants, THANK YOU for the pictures of the old catalog, ratchet and socket!! That is awesome!!

lauver, thanks for the welcome to the group.

When they were available, I bought a 3/8" ratchet and three or four of the metric sockets to work on my dirt bike. I still have one or two of the sockets somewhere, but the ratchet is long gone. I remember one of the bands coming off. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to have one for sentimental reasons. I think they were the first tools I bought for myself.

Again, THANK YOU to all for the information.

[wantedabiggergarage]

wantabigger,

Do you still have the "other brand ratchet" that is similar to the Crafty? If so, can you post photos?

Do you remember the brand? Any info appreciated.


Thanks

Nope, it is gone. It was a Master Mechanic one (its lifetime warranty didn't work).

[lauver]

Nope, it is gone. It was a Master Mechanic one (its lifetime warranty didn't work).

Wantabigger,

Weren't older Master Mechanic tools made by MDF/Easco/Danaher?

I had a couple of old MM ratchets that were dead ringers of my Craftsman ratchets. And, the ratchet mechanisms were interchangeable between the MM and Craftsman ratchets.

[lauver]

TP,

I have a couple of the banded sockets, one stamped "7" and one stamped "B". Adam has a couple of the SS ratchets stamped "7" on the rubber handle. It's possible the "7" is the series code, I'm just not sure though. But, the banded sockets, including the one stamped "7" look like Stanley Works sockets and not like any MDF/Easco/Danaher sockets.

The court document you linked with Colvin (patent holder) vs. Danaher Corp et al, is convincing evidence that the SS ratchets were made by Easco and/or Danaher. You sir have the smoking gun.

Nicely done Tool Pants. :beer:

[billymade]

Frankly, they sucked and broke quickly; mine was a replacement for a 70s vintage fine tooth round ratchet.... mine broken quickly! They were definitely unique... as guess for collecting they are cool... for real world usage; look elsewhere! The sockets AFIK; were nothing special... just the addition of a plastic band with the size printed on them! We would get these as warranty returns from time to time; I typically, just lubed them up to "fix" them.... seemed to work fine! I was young at the time and broke the drive off the gear or stripped the gears can't remember which... bottom line wasn't terribly tough or durable ratchet... a "blip" on the screen in the long history of Craftsman ratchets!

[GTO]

I have the 3/8's model.
I think that the selector switch is too large.

[Tool Pants]

He sued Danaher, Matco, and Easco, and Danaher owns all 3. Also sued NAPA which sells Danaher stuff. But you cannot tell over what or if it was related to the 2 patents on the SS ratchet design that are in his name. Remember, Colvin has other tool patents.

But for now it does appear that Easco made the ratchet, and Easco was acquired by Danaher a few years after Sears started selling the ratchets.

Here are the 2 Colvin patents, which do not show if they were assigned. But they must have been, because Mr. Colvin was an inventor and did not make ratchets. The patents are not for a SS ratchet, but for a thin head design ratchet.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=nikwAAAAEBAJ&dq=4,485,700

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=E0ICAAAAEBAJ&dq=4,631,988

Not a patent guy, but I don't see what is unique in the design.

Easco had the design patent for the rubber grip. If you look at the drawings the rubber grip is shown on the stainless steel ratchet. The handle is now offset.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=kmk6AAAAEBAJ&dq=easco

Easco had the patent for the rubber black banded sockets. Guess that solves the mystery as to who made the sockets. The sockets actually produced and sold by Sears were not made of SS.

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=04AiAAAAEBAJ&dq=easco

[lauver]

Tool Pants,

The missing details are in the original patent infringement case. The case you linked is from the federal court of appeals, and sends the infringement case back to the original court. In other words, it reopens the infringement case and gives Colvin another shot at Easco, Danaher, et al. I'm guessing this case has since been settled, but I have been unable to find any documentation of the case. Will continue the search, but until I find information to the contrary, we've got our OEM.

[wantedabiggergarage]

Wantabigger,

Weren't older Master Mechanic tools made by MDF/Easco/Danaher?

I had a couple of old MM ratchets that were dead ringers of my Craftsman ratchets. And, the ratchet mechanisms were interchangeable between the MM and Craftsman ratchets.

I don't know. I know we bought a toolbox, from a friend who picked it up from the guys widow (former mechanic). It HAD all kinds of stuff in it, from some Master mechanic (that ratchet in a small set), tons of sockets, some Penncraft tools (old JC Penny lifetime warranty), and misc odds and ends. The bosses seemed to take things home when they needed to work on something, rather then using their home boxes.:wtf:
And they wonder why I am :headscrat when I am asked to fix something.:spit:

[Here2Learn]

I found the sockets I mentioned. The one without the band (12mm) has a "7" before the 5-digit part number. The band around the socket has "PAT PEND" on it.

Here's a picture of the sockets:

http://www.kdxgarage.com/Sockets.JPG