View Full Version : Ownership Cost: Diesel vs. Gas Truck


xroad
11-26-2010, 01:10 AM
Too many variables .... too little knowledge .... You guys can help.

What s the ownership cost of two identical pick up trucks, size like a F150 or F250 for example, one with a diesel and other with a gas engine. At what point would the diesel truck breaks even with the gas engine truck? Does it ever break even at all?

blue dog
11-26-2010, 01:20 AM
It all depends on a few variables, do you do a lot of long distance driving? do you pull heavy loads? How many miles do you drive a year? The diesel option on a dodge is about a $6000.00 upgrade, don't know about ford. Diesel in southern california ranges from $3.25 to $3.75 a gallon, pretty close to the cost of super. As far as maintenance, realize that diesels hold a lot more oil, my cummins holds over 11 quarts, dana 80 rear end with mag hytech pan holds 8 quarts, if buying synthetic, it gets expensive. I am not very familiar with the powerstroke, but this years is a new engine, so i would wait to see what bugs need to be worked out of them. I am a cummins fan and have had dodge diesels for over 12 years, all of them have been great heavy duty trucks that have not let me down. Cummins engines have a life span that is far greater then the powerstroke or duramax, some will disagree, but i am biased. Hope this helps a little, good luck.

cowboyjosh
11-26-2010, 01:39 AM
I have 366,000 miles on a 2004 F-350 6.0 Powerstroke, only issue was under warranty with a bedplate gasket; otherwise just normal service and the truck has done fine. I like Cummins Diesels, but I don't like Dodge trucks; the engines are great but the rest of the truck is a pile. The Dodge doesn't have near the quality of fit and finish as the Ford, especially the Fords from 2008 to today. I grew up in the car business and my family is still in the business, its a 4th generation car lot and has been in business in Colorado for 70 years, that said Ford trucks sell themselves in days and as of this writing the Super Duty's are super hot right now, especially used and are bringing big bucks at auction, therefore getting a good deal at the car lot can be hit or miss depending how well the dealership did buying the truck at auction. There is a saying in the car business "you make more money on the buy then you do on the sell". Right now as for Dodge and Chevy, while the cleanest truck brings money at auction, they are at least in our part of the world don't have the demand of Ford so they come less expensive and you have a better chance at getting a killer deal.

Bottom line, Diesels cost more, not only to buy, but when you change your oil, etc. Diesels typically will last longer, will pull better, and are super cool trucks to own; but you have to buy what you like the best and what works best for your lifestyle; same goes for the brand of truck, if you like the way the seats sit in a Dodge versus a Ford, get the Dodge; it has to work for YOU.

rwhite692
11-26-2010, 01:47 AM
This subject has been beaten to death numerous times on more forums than I can count...

Do you NEED the capabilities, towing capacities that the diesel HD trucks provide?

If the answer is "yes", then that capability has an intrinsic value.

If the answer is "no" then there is no reason to own a diesel truck, unless you simply want one, as opposed to needing one.

santagary
11-26-2010, 06:55 AM
My superduty 4x4 V10 Ford 250 will pull all the hay and horses I'd ever dare hitch up to...AND I saved about $8K in the process and the gas is much cheaper than diesel...AND, you don't stink like diesel when you're around them. We use big diesel tractors...that's enough diesel for us. If we could use the farm "RED" diesel we use in the tractors, the cost difference might level out, but we can't. Just my 2 cents worth.

Aberdale
11-26-2010, 08:31 AM
Blue Dog and Cowboyjosh have it right.

I have a farm, and had gasoline F150 Fords for years in both 2WD and 4WD. In 1999, I decided I needed a larger pickup to pull a 20k gooseneck trailer. I like Cummins engines, and decided to buy a Dodge 3500 over a similarly equipped Ford. The Dodge was a great truck . . . . . . . . for 60,000 miles. Then it started nickel and diming me to death. The engine was great, no issues (except oil leaks), but the rest of the truck just started to fall apart.

Oil changes were three times as expensive as the old gasoline F150s. Same with fuel filters. But the biggest thing was that diesel fuel, which was 10-15% lower than gasoline when I bought the truck, now is 10-15% higher than gasoline. It pretty much killed any cost saving for owning a diesel for me.

I decided that I really didn't need to pull that trailer all that much anyway, so I opted to go back to a gasoline F150 in 2006. For me, a diesel doesn't make sense unless I am pulling a heavy trailer at least 50% of the time.

I will typically put 200,000 miles on a truck. Both gas and diesel trucks will easily do this nowadays. The diesel will last much longer, but the rest of the truck will start to wear out, so it isn't really an advantage for me that the engine still has life left. I'm ready for a new truck by then anyways.

tez929rr
11-26-2010, 09:23 AM
My superduty 4x4 V10 Ford 250 will pull all the hay and horses I'd ever dare hitch up to...AND I saved about $8K in the process and the gas is much cheaper than diesel...AND, you don't stink like diesel when you're around them. We use big diesel tractors...that's enough diesel for us. If we could use the farm "RED" diesel we use in the tractors, the cost difference might level out, but we can't. Just my 2 cents worth.

My situation is identical to yours. F250 Crew Cab 4x4 V10. There are jobs for which a diesel truck makes sense, but far and away most people have no need for them. They are a status symbol around here - a very expensive one.

79firebird
11-26-2010, 09:30 AM
If you drive a lot go diesel. my buddy does deliveries around town when his gas truck died he got a diesel truck and now uses 1/2 the fuel he use to. hes figured out hes saveing about $50 a day in fuel drives 6 days a week it adds up.

bigdav160
11-26-2010, 10:18 AM
At what point would the diesel truck breaks even with the gas engine truck?

When you sell it. You'll never make anything back on fuel savings

There's a premium to purchase the diesel package. But there is also some return on resale.

We tow a lot. The wife and I both drive Dodge-Cummins. They've been fantastic vehicles and don't regret their purchase.

crewchief888
11-26-2010, 10:37 AM
unless it was going to be a dedicated tow vehicle, and not a grocery getter/ mall cruiser/stutus symbol, gas is the way to go.

as stated previously, diesel used to be cheaper than reg gas, but now it's same price or higher than premium gas. add in the high cost of the diesel eng package, it's not worth it for a DD.

my '00 gmc sierra 4x4 4.8 vortec, get better mileage than my '06 f 550 6.0 ever thought about getting


:beer:

dmeadow
11-26-2010, 10:49 AM
I bought my 2003 Dodge diesel new after talking to a lot of folks that did the same kind of towing that I did-- long distances with a heavy trailer.

I have some friends that had a gas Dodge and they got tired of 8 mpg when towing. Not the cost so much as having to stop every 45 minutes to refuel. They quickly switched to a diesel.

I also drove the truck about 60 miles roundtrip to work every day for a number of years. It now has 126k miles on it. The engine has needed nothing outside of regular maintenance, although I've had a few things go wrong with the truck-- some wiring issues (I think were the result of a faulty trailer brake), the driver's visor started falling down, the dash is cracked (common on these trucks, even if you park them under cover). But mostly minor stuff. I don't drive it to work every day any more, but it sure is great for towing and has been very reliable. I don't know where the economic equation will come out, in my mind it is more of a matter of how you use the truck.

Poltax
11-26-2010, 11:10 AM
I have a 97 Ford F250 with the PSD. It has 290,000 on it. When I bought the truck it had 15,000 and fuel was a lot cheaper then gas. The truck is paid for and I plan on keeping it till it dies. The outside is like brand new as well as the inside. I use it mostly for towing my enclosed snowmobile trailer.

Cost wise its about a wash. MPG is better then gas, however your up up keep and oil changes will run you more. If it were me today, I would buy the gasser if all you need is a truck & your concern is cost. If your pulling a lot and then go with the diesel. All the brands are good. However as far as the Ford goes I think the 96-97 were the best years that they made and those 2 years had the most reliable motors.

tez929rr
11-26-2010, 11:17 AM
My neighbor has a new Super Duty with a Powerstroke and the mileage is terrible - the emissions system uses fuel to burn out the exhaust periodically and ruins his mileage. The system seems complicated enough that you could not easily defeat it and it would void the warranty anyway. I don't know if Dodge and Chevy have similar systems or not.

IndyGarage
11-26-2010, 12:08 PM
Unless you are driving long distances with really heavy loads, then there is simply no need.

If you tow a heavy 5th wheel or a stock trailer, or you haul around a flatbed with full welding rig - yeah, otherwise gas is fine.

The Diesels, especially the new ones, will eat you up on maintenance too, and they aren't nearly as tolerant of delayed maintenance.

I'd say 90% of the trucks bigger than 1/2 ton are for show and not necessary - however if you have $50K blowing a hole in your pocket they've got a shiny new one for you.

cdent
11-26-2010, 12:13 PM
It might just be me, but 12 mpg on a gasser is outsanding. 8 to 10 mpg is more like it for a 3/4 or 1 ton truck for me. Also, I don't think it's an option to compare a 1/2 ton gasser with a HD diesel, just for different purposes. My last fill up checked out to a bit over 16.5 mpg and the worst it ever drops to is 12 mpg heavily loaded. So far my diesel makes up the initial price difference just on fuel alone.

jpoe
11-26-2010, 12:28 PM
I bought an 02 Ford F-350 PSD a few years ago to pull our camp trailer and to hopefully pull a toyhauler in the future. If we don't start camping a lot more, I might sell it and get a V-10. If I was towing all of the time, I wouldn't question it utility. Driving it back and forth to work and to pick the kids up, way overkill and very expensive.

I would be very skeptical of the new diesels with all of the EPA crap on there. The MPG's have gone to crap, but the power is amazing.

If you are going to tow all of the time, diesel MIGHT be the way to go. If you are towing a few times a year, I would go with a gasser.

Ign
11-26-2010, 12:58 PM
Do you NEED the capabilities, towing capacities that the diesel HD trucks provide?

If the answer is "yes", then that capability has an intrinsic value.

x2

I don't *need* my 2 post lift, but the first time I didn't have to get up and down off the creeper 30 times for a simple task it paid for itself as far as I'm concerned. I wasted $3000

I don't *need* a pneumatic impact wrench, I could use a breaker bar and ratchet on everything. I wasted around $150

I coulda saved HUGE $$$ if I were willing to work outside in the cold instead of a heated shop. I wasted $50,000!

etc etc

Another factor is elevation/topography. Pulling a big fifth wheel on the interstate in the flat states is no problem. Get into the mountains and 6k+ elevation and things change considerably. All the 1/2 tons I see here in Colorado pulling stuff they shouldn't have plates like WI, TX, KS etc.

madjack
11-26-2010, 01:10 PM
I went through this exact dilemma this summer.
V10 fords are cheap when compared to the equivalant powerstroke. I needed a truck to haul my racecar trailer and looked at used 7.3 powerstrokes. For as much (or as little) as I tow, the V10 ended up being a better deal. Paid $6K for a '02 4door SWB XLT with 105k miles, when a near equal PS diesel was $12K with 200k miles. The V10 gets 14.5 empty and 12mpg towing a loaded 32' enclosed tag trailer. Not sure how that compares to the diesel for milage but power wise the V10 goes down the interstate at 80 with the trailer in tow, no problem.

VC-Racing
11-26-2010, 04:38 PM
I am a firm believer that diesel trucks are far superior to gas trucks .
I've own a 01 F350 4x4 with the 7.3 Powerstoke . At 55mph I get 20mpg unladen and 13-14 mpg pulling a 9500lb cooker trailer, at 75-80 mph One thing I like about my 7.3 is the ability to run WVO with little to no modifications.
I am looking at purchasing a newer truck in the next 2 yrs. I am waiting out the new 6.7 Powerstoke to see if any gremlins creep up. If the 6.7 turns out to be problem free I'll go diesel, however I am strongly considering a F150 with big V-8( 5.4 or 6.2) should it prove to be problematic .

patrick66
11-26-2010, 05:47 PM
You get your return in resale. An otherwise identical gas pickup will be worth a THIRD or less of its Diesel counterpart. You'll get a half-million miles out of a Diesel, easily. A gas truck is worn out at 200K. Mileage is better in the city and the highway. Last gas truck I owned ('97 Ford F250 4x2) got 12 mpg, no matter how it was driven, and only nine mpg with an open 18' car hauler and a 4,000# car on it. My '95 F350 CC SRW 4x4 Powerstroke automatic gets 16 in the city and 20 on the highway. With that same load, it gets 15 hwy. The fuel savings is absolutely there with a Diesel. So what if the price difference is 20 cents, or even 75 cents per gallon more? I still save money with the Diesel. Oil changes are every 10K miles, with filter changes at 5K. So, the oil costs are the same as the gas (13 qts every 10K miles, vs 6 qts every 5K miles, and each instance there are two filters in that interval). Parts prices are high on a Diesel, granted, but I've yet to spend on the Diesel, maintenance-wise, what I've had to spend on any gas truck I have ever owned. I can make my own fuel. Tough to do that with a gas rig!

This is my daily driver. Sometimes, it hauls just me, or my family, or a bed load of hay or gravel, or my car hauler. I have no qualms about hauling 18K behind it, and have done so easily. There is not a single gas truck that I would do that with. Even 10K behind most gas trucks is a chore.

It all boils down to what do you want from your truck? Mine does everything I ask it to and more. Plus, I know that if I ever DO decide to sell, it'll bring three times what a '95 460 Ford will bring, and probably four times what a 351W truck will, in the same condition.

BTW, I have seen PLENTY of $50K gasser half-tons around these days! If you look for a nice, used five-to-ten year old Ford or Dodge Diesel, you are money and miles ahead of ANY new truck. I bought my '95 F350 last year. With all mods documented and ownership records intact. It was a provable one-owner truck (I bought it from him, not a dealer) with 158K miles on it - low for any Diesel, but med-hi for a gasser. Paid less than ten g's for it. The Diesel I had before that was an '06 Dodge QC 4x2 automatic with 33K on it. Had it about five months and decided I wasn't going to be a slave to a car payment anymore, so I sold it with 41K. Before that, I had my '96 Dodge 3500 4x2 dually CC that I bought off my bro-in-law in 2000, with just 22K on it. Stupid me, I sold it in '09 with 166K on it. Best damn truck I ever owned! My first was a '93 Dodge 350 CC 4x2 5-speed I bought in '97 with 111K on it. Used that in my trailer business, hauling up to 17K# of trailers at a time. Sold it to my boss at my other job with 199K miles on it, in 2001. The biggest issue I ever had with any of these was a ring and pinion replacement on the '93; a clutch and turbo wastegate replacement on the '96, and a fuel pump and fuel filter housing replacement on the Ford. No problems at all with the '06. None of these was any more dramatic or expensive than the same parts on a gasser. So, with over a quarter-million miles on four Diesel-powered trucks, I'll stay with a Diesel, thanks. Longest I ever owned a gasser was a 1985 Dodge Ram 150 I bought new in March '85, and sold in Belgium in 1990 with right at 100K on it - pretty good for five years! Drove my son's '78 Chevy C-10 gas truck recently for a couple of days - he can keep that!

@ Tez - You are correct - the '08 and newer trucks (ALL Diesels, not just pickups!) have really goofy emissions systems on them that cause wear, are VERY expensive to service (required warrantied item until 100K miles), and do reduce overall fuel mileage - thank the EPA for all that crap.

nate379
11-26-2010, 06:11 PM
I think your fuel calculator is broken!

I drove one for a while and I know 4-5 other guys that have owned them and no one got near your fuel mileage. The one I drove got 11-12mpg without towing anything and 8-9mpg towing.

I went through this exact dilemma this summer.
V10 fords are cheap when compared to the equivalent powerstroke. I needed a truck to haul my racecar trailer and looked at used 7.3 powerstrokes. For as much (or as little) as I tow, the V10 ended up being a better deal. Paid $6K for a '02 4door SWB XLT with 105k miles, when a near equal PS diesel was $12K with 200k miles. The V10 gets 14.5 empty and 12mpg towing a loaded 32' enclosed tag trailer. Not sure how that compares to the diesel for mileage but power wise the V10 goes down the interstate at 80 with the trailer in tow, no problem.

As far as gas vs diesel... dunno, I have never owned a gas powered truck, just driven a few and most were very gutless unless it was big block powered, but you couldn't pass a fuel station with those!

patrick66
11-26-2010, 06:39 PM
At what point would the diesel truck breaks even with the gas engine truck? Does it ever break even at all?

Fuel costs breakdown:

DIESEL: 1,000 mile trip, $3.00/gallon, 20 mpg = 50 gallons of fuel, with $150.00 in fuel costs...

GAS: 1,000 mile trip, $2.50/gallon, 13 mpg = 76.9 gallons of fuel, with $192.00 in fuel costs.

SAVINGS of Diesel vs Gas = $42.00/1,000 miles, or $4,200/100K miles

That, in itself, made up the premium in the initial cost difference between a four-year-old Ford Diesel F250 4x2 over the same gas rig. Factor in the longevity of a Diesel vs a gas truck (500K vs 200K, average). Mind you, this is with a FIFTY cent per gallon difference! As you get closer in price in gallon, the savings are even greater. Typically, on the local market, the price for Diesel has been anywhere from ten cents LESS that gas per gallon, to as much as a buck higher, over the past five years.

Maintenance intervals are more frequent for the gasser over the Diesel. Body and suspension intervals are the same for both.

Take this info and do more research on your own. Ultimately, it's what YOU want from a truck.

NWOhioChevyGuy
11-26-2010, 07:49 PM
I took the jump to a Chevy Duramax this last spring and love it.

A) I was towing for work - small trailer but averaged 8-9 MPG more with the diesel
B) I found a 2005 Crew Cab 4x4 6.6 Duramax with 6482 miles on it and save $24K fom buying a new truck. Take your time you can find a deal.
C) It should last me 2-3 times that of the gasser I had before.

But as any vehicle if you maintain them and don't beat on them you can drive them for a long time.

I also know know that I like the ability to tow pretty much anything I need to using the gooseneck trailer hitch the truck has.

But as it has been said, most people can get buy with a Gasser, but you won't find a 1/2ton diesel so you have to figure in the stiffer ride.

akdiesel
11-26-2010, 07:57 PM
It seems the diesel trucks have been more of a desire than a necessity lately with all the power they can make, almost like those buying a sports car such as the new corvette. Whether you go gas or diesel you still have a the chance of getting a lemon.
There have been comments made about emissions on diesels, but all new gas or diesel vehicles have a stronger regulation on them and the industry (from what I have heard) is trying to make it more and more difficult for the owner to work on these vehicles, so they have to end up taking it to the dealership for work.
I have an '02 duramax and I could not be happier. It averages 18 mpg hw and I change my oil every 7500 miles. It only has about 45,000 miles so it will get more dry rot then it does wear. I bought the truck so that I did not have to worry if I could tow or haul a load as well as keeping it for a long time.
One of the big problems I have seen for the diesel owners is letting the engine sit at idle for long times. This loads up the engine with soot build up and starts to show in the mpg and power. Another problem with the diesel pickups is the trannies. More people are getting these trucks for the power they have the trannies can't handle it in stock form. They put these trannies in just above the performance levels of the stock engine.
There are pros and cons for each of the three manufactures for a diesel truck.

Ign
11-26-2010, 08:03 PM
Another problem with the diesel pickups is the trannies. More people are getting these trucks for the power they have the trannies can't handle it in stock form. They put these trannies in just above the performance levels of the stock engine.

Sad but true. I don't care for the E4OD behind my 7.3, but I'm not gonna do any power mods until I can budget several grand for a built auto from ATS or similar...........or get the motivation to swap in a ZF or other manual.

patrick66
11-26-2010, 10:37 PM
Only reason to idle a Diesel (in a pickup) is the turbocharger. At a stop (rest area, fuel stop, food), for every hour of driving, it is recommended that the driver idle the engine one minute. This applies to turbo gasoline engines, as well. The engine oil is what not only lubricates the turbo bearings, but cools them, as well. Shutting off a turbo-equipped engine immediately after exiting a highway, allows the hot oil to just sit inside the turbocharger, which cokes up and the oil hardens. Do this enough, and your turbocharger becomes an expensive repair. So, if you have been running down the freeway for three straight hours, you should idle the truck for three minutes to allow the turbo, and the oil, to cool down somewhat.

The reason you see tractor-trailer rigs idle so much, is that all of their systems (especially heat and air conditioning) require the engine to be running. Most newer rigs have what is basically a Diesel power generator, mounted near one of the fuel tanks. That way, they save $$$ by limiting idling and can run their generator off the fuel tank and use much less fuel when sitting overnight or at rest.

blue dog
11-26-2010, 10:44 PM
What patrick66 is saying is spot on regarding cool down time after driving, but, 1 minute per hour is a bit extreme, i just wait till the egt's cool down to 375 or 400 at idle, after a 4 hour pull it usually takes a2 minutes max.

My 2nd gen dodge with a 6 speed trans will click anywhere from 14 to 16 mpg pulling 8 to 10,000 pounds. and has been for 220,000 miles with no problems.

Keep in mind that the cummins engine is the only commercial duty engine offered in light duty pickups.

nate379
11-26-2010, 10:45 PM
It's all about what you want/need.

For me, I wouldn't even consider a 1/2 ton truck. Sure it's fine to haul a few pieces of lumber or the groceries, but if I want to haul a load of dirt, concrete, water, firewood, etc a 1/2 ton isn't going to do it. I have hauled a couple loads in my one ton duallie that I was a bit worried about overloading the tires :scared:

As for the gas or diesel, well I perfer diesel. Easier to work on and cheaper to run. My Jetta is diesel and I have no trouble getting 45mpg out of it.

jomobco
11-26-2010, 11:08 PM
This subject has been beaten to death numerous times on more forums than I can count...

Do you NEED the capabilities, towing capacities that the diesel HD trucks provide?

If the answer is "yes", then that capability has an intrinsic value.

If the answer is "no" then there is no reason to own a diesel truck, unless you simply want one, as opposed to needing one.

I agree. To pay 10k or more for a diesel and more for gas unless you need to tow, get a gasser. That being said I've got two 6.7 dodge cummins and they both perform well for what they are designed to do. They tow 14k pounds of hay without blinking. They take my 26' gooseneck up the CO mtn passes w/o problems. Loaded up I get 11-12 MPG and w/o a trailer 18+. I disagree with other comments about the Dodge fit and finish. My 07 (55k miles) and 08 (79k miles) haven't had a glitch with the interior. Perhaps it was Benz's influence on production IDK but these trucks have been very strong for me outside of standard wear issues. Needless to say I liked my first one so much I bought a second. Now if you want to talk about the 6.0's issues one could write a book. That's one truck I personally would avoid. My repair shop is always loaded with fords on the lifts. Injectors and lift pumps constantly.

onewaydave
11-27-2010, 06:24 AM
I had a Dodge 360 (?) gas for 2 weeks. I couldn't pull a trailer up a Kansas hill without downshifting.

Went to Cummins. If it didn't have a Cummins I would never buy a Dodge.

Until diesel is double the price of gas (in some cases more), it is cheaper to drive diesel.

I went to look at a newer truck in '09. I was about half way through the dickering part of buying one when the dealership boss came over and started talking to me. She asked what I was buying and what I was currently driving. She then said, "You know you won't get the same milage in the new one that you get in your '02." When I asked, she said to expect about 13mpg. So I found a low milage '06 instead. '07 is the year they ruined the milage.

Dave.

danski0224
11-27-2010, 08:05 AM
My neighbor has a new Super Duty with a Powerstroke and the mileage is terrible - the emissions system uses fuel to burn out the exhaust periodically and ruins his mileage. The system seems complicated enough that you could not easily defeat it and it would void the warranty anyway. I don't know if Dodge and Chevy have similar systems or not.


It's called a DPF, Diesel Particulate Filter.

Yes, it is expensive.

Power mods, the wrong oil and excessive idling will kill it.

That started in the USA in 07.

In 2010, urea injection is added to many diesels to meet new emissions regs.

AAFD
11-27-2010, 09:09 AM
I've owned 4 diesel pickups in the last 7-8 years. 3 Dodge Cummins 12-Valves, and 1 Ford 7.3 Powerstroke.

The Cummins are far superior over the Powerstroke, but the Ford was the nicest of the trucks.

In my biggest truck, a 3500 Ram Extended Cab Dually 2wd with a 5-spd, I was averaging 22mpg city/highway (checked every fill up, documented over 3 years) and as high as 26mpg on the highway (unloaded at night).

The Powerstroke was a lighter truck but 4x4, equipped with a 5-spd and averaged about 17mpg, with a one-time high of 19mpg. The truck was way nicer than the Dodge, but rode like a tank with the leaf springs at all 4 corners (This was a 1996 4x4 Supercab Long Bed)

The other two Dodges got similar mpg to the Dodge Dually but were regular cab 2wd single rear wheel models, one was a highly modified 5-spd, the other a bone stock automatic.

My brother has a '05 GMC 2500HD 4x4 Crewcab with the 6.6 Duramax Diesel & Allison Automatic. He's spent thousands on that truck for repairs....turbocharger, cylinder heads, brakes, transmission cooler crapped & killed the transmission, front suspension repairs. Now it's all fixed up and has been sitting in his garage for the past year untouched because he's scared of having something else break on him. The truck is not modified in any way, bone stock original.

Using my Dually as a comparison... My friend had the SAME EXACT TRUCK, but it was the V10 Gasoline. Same everything. He was averaging 12mpg. I change oil every 5-7k at a cost of about $50 per, he was changing every 3k at a cost of $40 per. My truck had over 215,000 miles when I sold it and I never replaced a single major component under the hood other than maintenance items (belts/hoses/fluids). He was at 160k and had already had a cylinder head gasket go, lost a freeze plug, alternator, pan gaskets leaking. I could hook a steel 20' trailer with a 3500lb car an get around 20mpg pulling at 70mph...he would get around 8mpg pulling the same load at the same speed. State inspection around here costs $14 for exempt vehicle & diesels. It costs $28 for gasoline vehicles. My insurance was about the same as his, we're both the same age, similar driving records, etc etc etc. He later sold it for $3500 cash and then bought a 1996 Diesel for $6,500 and always tells me how stupid he was for ever owning the V10.

So in my opinion...the Diesel wins.

I prefer the 1994-1997 (more specifically the 1997 5-speeds) Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesels. They are 12-Valve Engines with mechanical injection pumps. They only require 1 wire to run, no computer, no fancy electronics, very simple, easy to work on. They are also very easy to modify. You can net as much as 130hp/250lbft for free without hurting fuel mileage or driveability. Plus there are tons of bolt-on power adders for them. A friends truck turns 866hp/1,390lbft on the dyno and still gets used on his farm everyday and gets over 20mpg. The problem with these engines is that they are wrapped in poorly made trucks that tend to fall apart around the engines.

The newer model Cummins diesels are great too, but I just prefer the simplicity of the mechanical stuff, plus the new ones cost more to maintain, repair, and don't get the mileage that the old ones get.

If I had the money, I would buy the nicest 1993-1997 Ford F-350 4-door Dually 4x4 I could find, swap in the 1997-1998.5 Dodge 5.9 Cummins Turbo Diesel, and the Allison Automatic from the GM Duramax Diesels.

Just my $.02

VC-Racing
11-27-2010, 09:33 AM
I am a firm believer that diesel trucks are far superior to gas trucks .
I've own a 01 F350 4x4 with the 7.3 Powerstoke . At 55mph I get 20mpg unladen and 13-14 mpg pulling a 9500lb cooker trailer, at 75-80 mph One thing I like about my 7.3 is the ability to run WVO with little to no modifications.
I am looking at purchasing a newer truck in the next 2 yrs. I am waiting out the new 6.7 Powerstoke to see if any gremlins creep up. If the 6.7 turns out to be problem free I'll go diesel, however I am strongly considering a F150 with big V-8( 5.4 or 6.2) should it prove to be problematic .

I failed to.finish my post. I meant to say at 75-80 I got 15-16 mpg unladen and 10-12 mpg pulling the cooker.

madjack
11-27-2010, 09:41 AM
Nate, Nothing wrong with my milage calculator. That's what it gets. 2wd Vs 4WD get way better MPG. I had a 460 4wd F350 before and it was a turd. Only got 8-9mpg with 6 while towing. The V-10 is amasing when compaired to the old 460. I've got four 7.3 powerstroke trucks that are used for business. They are great for what we use them for, but I just like the gas truck for towing my car trailer. Like the way the power comes on and because I only put 2-3 thousand miles on it each year there is virtually no maintenance. I change oil each fall and thats it. No fuel additives or looking for blended fuels. Gas and go.

MD11
11-27-2010, 10:04 AM
I just rolled a 2500HD Chevy with the Duramax and Allison transmission home last month and am seeing 19-21 highway, unloaded, and 12-13 city driving milage..with only a about 1000 miles on the engine. I also run Biodiesel which might hit my milage 5-10% since it slightly reduces the efficiency rating of the engine...

I don't need 16000lbs of towing, nor 3000lbs of bed load, but I did want the long term durability and reliability of a diesel engine, it was worth the $10K premium for me since I am looking at a 10 year+ ownership time frame.

Here are some pics of my truck on my website... and my youtube video is also up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDDecHCyTvc

http://web.mac.com/sjsamaha/Site/Chevy_Truck.html

Matt M, PA
11-27-2010, 10:10 AM
When I ordered my 2005 Excursion, I thought I really did my research between the (I think) 6.0 Powerstroke and Triton V10.

I drove both. Initial impression was that I did not like the throttle response of the diesel compared to the gasser. Engine noise was not a big factor either way. The gasser outran the diesel from a stop. The diesel made some steam once the turbo spooled up, and I do know it was no slouch...but my personal opinion was I preferred the V10.

If memory serves, diesel was cheaper than unleaded at the time, and I know the MPG would have been better so perhaps that would have been a wash.

In the end, once I figured the intitial expense, the added cost of maintanence, as well as any MPG savings....it would have taken something like 80,000 miles for the diesel to even out with the gasser.

My 2005 Ex now has something like 36,000 miles. When I bought it, I used it as a daily driver in the winter months. I also tow a enclosed car trailer with it on weekends.

If I towed everyday, or cross country, a diesel would have made more sense...but I am happy in my choice of the gasser.

For the record, the V10 tows my 7000# trailer very nicely, never a need for more power. Since mine is in an Excursion, it is rated to tow 10,000.

I can't speak well to the longevity of the V10 since mine just hasn't gone far enough...but I have a friend close to 300,000 on a 2005 5.4.

MD11
11-27-2010, 10:20 AM
here's also a good link from another diesel forum on the newest challenge between Ford's new 6.7 and the DMAX 6.6...

http://thedieselgarage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105645

Licensed to kill
11-27-2010, 10:20 AM
I went through this dilemma in the late '80's. I wanted a 6.2 diesel and every time i was ready to take the plunge, people would be telling me about the high cost of maintenance, various problems with the engine, won't start if the sun goes behind a cloud, that sort of thing. I would get cold feet and shy away from the diesel. After several "attempts" at getting the courage to try a diesel and being discouraged by the naysayers, one day it occurred to me, every single person that poopooed the diesel idea had never owned one and all those that owned one would never buy anything else. So I bought my first, an '85 Blazer. That was in 1988 and I've owned 6-6.2s and 2-7.3 power strokes since. There's a reason that diesel owners are more often "repeat customers".

Aberdale
11-27-2010, 10:32 AM
I like diesels.

Back in the 1980s I owned two small diesel trucks. One was a 1981 Nissan, the other was a 1986 Ranger. Both trucks got close to 40mpg. Yes, they were gutless for towing. But that was not what they were designed for. I put 120,000 miles on the Nissan and 171,000 miles on the Ranger. Neither required any repairs other than basic maintenance, and both were running as good as new when I sold them. They were both great commuters that could haul building materials and sacks of feed cheaply.

What's my point to all this? No manufacturers make a vehicle like that any more. I'm in the market for a truck like this because I haul dirty stuff I don't want inside, but I don't need the towing capacity of a full sized diesel pickup. I would much rather give up the towing capacity for 40mpg. And most small gas pickups today don't really get any better fuel economy than a full size with a 6 cyl.

The thing is, these small diesel pickups are still available outside North America. Why not here?

MD11
11-27-2010, 12:47 PM
It's all about what you want/need.

For me, I wouldn't even consider a 1/2 ton truck. Sure it's fine to haul a few pieces of lumber or the groceries, but if I want to haul a load of dirt, concrete, water, firewood, etc a 1/2 ton isn't going to do it. I have hauled a couple loads in my one ton duallie that I was a bit worried about overloading the tires :scared:

As for the gas or diesel, well I perfer diesel. Easier to work on and cheaper to run. My Jetta is diesel and I have no trouble getting 45mpg out of it.

1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton are somewhat meaningless today.... Take for example, my 2011 SRW 2500 .. I've got more Chassis as a 2500 SRW than a 2006 and older 3500 DRW... and about on par with the 2007-2010's.. They've beefed up these trucks so much in the past 3-4 years that today's 1 ton dually is really a 3 ton truck, and a 3/4 ton SRW is a 1.5-2 ton truck...

nate379
11-27-2010, 05:03 PM
Perhaps, but load a 1/2 ton truck with 5000-6000lbs of gravel or a cord of firewood in the bed and tell me if you make it home!

blue dog
11-27-2010, 05:47 PM
I like diesels.



The thing is, these small diesel pickups are still available outside North America. Why not here?

Agreed, i would like to see toyota hilux diesels sold in this market, i would still keep my dodge, but would purchase a hilux in a heartbeat.

I like the 12 valve as well due to the mechanical injection pump, but they lack power, 2nd gen 24 valves just need a aftermarket fuel pump and you will not have the killer injection pump problem,and click great mpg's, and the 03 to o4.5 with a manuel trans are trucks with good power and reliability, 07 and up, have become complicated and the milage has fallen down as well as being packed with smog crap, just not as bad as a duramax and powerstroke.

HOTFR8
11-27-2010, 05:54 PM
One of the reasons I built my Freighter was simply because I could not find a suitable (tow)vehicle on the market here in Australia. I used the Cummins Engine and everything else I liked so as to have a vehicle that would suit my needs. We do not have the F series Fords on the market here or the Dodge Rams and Holden (Chevrolet) have nothing suitable either. Only other option for me would be an Mazda, Isuzu or Hino truck and simply put that is not what I wanted.

tez929rr
11-27-2010, 06:15 PM
Too many variables .... too little knowledge .... You guys can help.

What s the ownership cost of two identical pick up trucks, size like a F150 or F250 for example, one with a diesel and other with a gas engine. At what point would the diesel truck breaks even with the gas engine truck? Does it ever break even at all?

Remember, guys: this was the OP's question. The answer is, it depends on how much you drive it, how long you keep it, and what happens to the price of diesel and gas. I have 110,000 on my 99 Super Duty V10 with no issues. Since I only average 10K miles per year (truly less now, since it's not a daily driver anymore), I might never have broken even with a Powerstroke - and my odds were a lot better with that older generation motor. Keep in mind I am liable to keep that truck for another ten or more years.

neonnblack
11-27-2010, 06:30 PM
I like the 12 valve as well due to the mechanical injection pump, but they lack power,

little off topic from OP, but either take the fuel plate out of the 12v or switch/make a different one. and yes ppumps are awesome.

6768rogues
11-27-2010, 08:58 PM
I too wish that we could get small 4 cylinder diesel trucks. I had a 1980 Toyota diesel pickup that was a great trouble free truck and got 37 MPG every day.

MD11
11-27-2010, 10:46 PM
One of the reasons I built my Freighter was simply because I could not find a suitable (tow)vehicle on the market here in Australia. I used the Cummins Engine and everything else I liked so as to have a vehicle that would suit my needs. We do not have the F series Fords on the market here or the Dodge Rams and Holden (Chevrolet) have nothing suitable either. Only other option for me would be an Mazda, Isuzu or Hino truck and simply put that is not what I wanted.

Isuzu has a large part in the design and manufacture of the Duramax diesel in my truck and I can assure you, it's quite capable of towing just about anything..

Are you able to order a US Truck and have it shipped over there? or is that cost prohibitive?

logical
11-27-2010, 11:24 PM
If you are asking the question, obviously the F-150 will do what you need it to do...so all the dick waving about hauling 6 million pounds uphill doesn't apply here.

The f-250 costs say $6-8000 more. Around here Regular gas is $2.80, diesel is $3.20.

For a 100,000 mile discussion there aren't likely big differences in maintenance costs.

My F-150 gets maybe 18 hwy on a good day. Over 100,000 miles, that's 5555 gallons costing $15,555.

$15,555 would get you 4861 gallons of diesel....but wait you spent $6000 of that on the engine so you only have $9555 to spend so you can only have 2986 gallons. To go 100000 miles on that you'd need to get 33.5 mpg...good luck with that.

Let's try 200,000 miles.

I'd need $31,110 worth of gasoline. Take away that $6,000 for the diesel machine and the $25,110 gets you 7847 gallons...enough if you could magically get 25+ mpg.

I'd say it's somewhere well north of 200,000 miles where the fuel cost equals out and the longevity of the diesel engine (lower repair bills) would start to offset the higher initial cost. The newer F-150 (mines a 2006) will get over 20 mpg on the highway so that tips it even more in it's favor.

MD11
11-27-2010, 11:41 PM
it's real simple.. if ALL you want is a truck, to use for light duty chores and such, then you're not likely ever going to make the economic argument for a diesel... as Logical said, it's only logical that you'd have to drive it 200,000+ miles to break even on the additional costs of the purchase.. The reality is, today you can't get a light duty full size DIESEL truck.. you have to buy a HD (heavy duty) which not only adds 8K to the price of the truck, but in the case of the GM also adds $1200 for the Allison transmission and $7950 for the Duramax... so now, before you get your leather seats, or anything else you want... you're $16-17K north of the price of a normal duty truck..

So.. unless you plan to do a lot of heavy towing.. the ONLY reason to get a diesel is BECAUSE YOU WANT ONE... that's the reason I got mine.. I wanted it.. need's got nothing to do with 90% of what most people buy... you want to discuss "need" go to India and see how 1+ billion people live...

HOTFR8
11-27-2010, 11:48 PM
Isuzu has a large part in the design and manufacture of the Duramax diesel in my truck and I can assure you, it's quite capable of towing just about anything..

Are you able to order a US Truck and have it shipped over there? or is that cost prohibitive?

Unless you are wealthy it is very cost prohibitive due to conversion costs as well as proving it complies etc. A friend has just got a V10 Ram on the road and that took him two years to get the compliance here for it.

The Isuzu's we have here are Cab overs. The last Ford F Series we had here in Australia came from Brazil. Quality was not 100% and we only got the F250 & F350 and then Ford here decided not to keep selling them. We have nothing here now in that range size of pickup truck.

AAFD
11-28-2010, 07:29 AM
I like the 12 valve as well due to the mechanical injection pump, but they lack power, 2nd gen 24 valves just need a aftermarket fuel pump and you will not have the killer injection pump problem,and click great mpg's, and the 03 to o4.5 with a manuel trans are trucks with good power and reliability, 07 and up, have become complicated and the milage has fallen down as well as being packed with smog crap, just not as bad as a duramax and powerstroke.


215hp/450lbft for a P-Pumped 1997 Dodge 12-Valve 5-spd.

Take the Fuel Plate out and grind it into a new profile can get you over 130hp without sacrificing fuel mileage and it takes 30 minutes and it's free. That gives you around 330hp/700lbft at the rear wheels. Atleast thats what the dyno numbers read on my dually after I did that mod.

You can also make a free 3200rpm or 4000rpm Governor Spring Kit with cheap washers, this keeps you from defueling and running out of RPMs.

You can pinch off the line from the compressor housing to the wastegate on the turbocharger to bring up boost a little faster, although I never do that personally because it doesn't need it.

Those are the FREE mods. Then the ones where you shell out cash will ALWAYS be less $$$ than any 1998+ Dodge Cummins.

You can also "Kill" the "Killer Dowel Pin" with a drill, tap, and a bolt/lock washer in about 1/2 hour instead of taking a weekend to pull the timing cover off and pin it.


Sorry for the rant, I'm just stuck on the old 12-valves, I don't think they can be beat!

But then again, I'll take any truck as long as it's the right cab/bed configuration and the right motor/trans combo for what I need. I also like the new Common Rail Injected Cummins diesels, they're making tons of horsepower and torque with a few modifications.

PS: I personally think shortbed 3/4 ton trucks are pointless. If you're going to get a truck that is made to carry a load or haul something...but sure it's the LONG BED. Also, the longer the wheelbase, the steadier it will pull any trailer you hook to it.

santagary
11-28-2010, 07:44 AM
A lot of folks finance their diesel purchase which calculates out to about 10 or 11k by the time the diesel has been paid off. Our superduty F250 V10 will haul any amount of gravel, wood, hay, cows or horses we can stuff into trailers and pull over Wolf Creek Pass (10,000') any day.

Licensed to kill
11-28-2010, 10:38 AM
The f-250 costs say $6-8000 more. Around here Regular gas is $2.80, diesel is $3.20.

For a 100,000 mile discussion there aren't likely big differences in maintenance costs.

My F-150 gets maybe 18 hwy on a good day. Over 100,000 miles, that's 5555 gallons costing $15,555.

$15,555 would get you 4861 gallons of diesel....but wait you spent $6000 of that on the engine so you only have $9555 to spend so you can only have 2986 gallons. To go 100000 miles on that you'd need to get 33.5 mpg...good luck with that.

Let's try 200,000 miles.

I'd need $31,110 worth of gasoline. Take away that $6,000 for the diesel machine and the $25,110 gets you 7847 gallons...enough if you could magically get 25+ mpg.

I'd say it's somewhere well north of 200,000 miles where the fuel cost equals out

This all sounds well thought out but you forgot to include resale value. In most markets, the same two trucks you are using for comparison in the same condition and same mileage will be somewhere around $6000 difference in price STILL. Therefore, you can't use the additional cost of the engine when calculating ROI, you only include the interest on the extra $6000. The interest applies whether the truck is financed or bought with cash. Another thing that needs to be calculated is the TRUE cost difference, comparing apples to apples, not just the "diesel option" price. I don't know how it compares these days, but back in '92 I ordered a brand new Chev SB Xcab 4X4 with a 6.2 diesel. At that time the "diesel option" was about $4000. However, that $4000 was over the base V6 model. The 350 was $1500 so the difference between a 350 and 6.2 was $2500. The diesel came standard with things such as engine oil cooler, HD chassis and winter package (and a few other things that I don't recall) where you paid extra for these on a gas powered truck to the tune of about $1000 so now, apples to apples, the diesel was $1500 more and for that, you still got 5years, 160,000km warranty that you would have to pay for with the gas job. At the end of the day, any REAL difference in price was nominal and the truck was STILL worth $3000-$4000 more when sold used. I suspect that unlike back then, todays diesels DO cost more that a similarly equipped gas job, just don't take the "diesel option" value and assume that that's it.

MD11
11-28-2010, 10:41 AM
in terms of resale... a similar milage Gas v Diesel truck that's 3-4 years old is going to be as much as 1/2 the price... assuming the chassis is in decent shape.

logical
11-28-2010, 12:58 PM
This all sounds well thought out but you forgot to include resale value. In most markets, the same two trucks you are using for comparison in the same condition and same mileage will be somewhere around $6000 difference in price STILL. Therefore, you can't use the additional cost of the engine when calculating ROI, you only include the interest on the extra $6000. The interest applies whether the truck is financed or bought with cash. Another thing that needs to be calculated is the TRUE cost difference, comparing apples to apples, not just the "diesel option" price. I don't know how it compares these days, but back in '92 I ordered a brand new Chev SB Xcab 4X4 with a 6.2 diesel. At that time the "diesel option" was about $4000. However, that $4000 was over the base V6 model. The 350 was $1500 so the difference between a 350 and 6.2 was $2500. The diesel came standard with things such as engine oil cooler, HD chassis and winter package (and a few other things that I don't recall) where you paid extra for these on a gas powered truck to the tune of about $1000 so now, apples to apples, the diesel was $1500 more and for that, you still got 5years, 160,000km warranty that you would have to pay for with the gas job. At the end of the day, any REAL difference in price was nominal and the truck was STILL worth $3000-$4000 more when sold used. I suspect that unlike back then, todays diesels DO cost more that a similarly equipped gas job, just don't take the "diesel option" value and assume that that's it.

I didn't so much forget as I chose to draw the line at speculating on resale 10 years in the future. It still makes no real sense if you don't need the extra towing capacity. Yes, I agree the resale value makes it slightly less of a bad choice for the OP's situation.

patrick66
11-28-2010, 02:18 PM
If you are asking the question, obviously the F-150 will do what you need it to do...so all the dick waving about hauling 6 million pounds uphill doesn't apply here.

The f-250 costs say $6-8000 more. Around here Regular gas is $2.80, diesel is $3.20.

For a 100,000 mile discussion there aren't likely big differences in maintenance costs.

My F-150 gets maybe 18 hwy on a good day. Over 100,000 miles, that's 5555 gallons costing $15,555.

$15,555 would get you 4861 gallons of diesel....but wait you spent $6000 of that on the engine so you only have $9555 to spend so you can only have 2986 gallons. To go 100000 miles on that you'd need to get 33.5 mpg...good luck with that.

Let's try 200,000 miles.

I'd need $31,110 worth of gasoline. Take away that $6,000 for the diesel machine and the $25,110 gets you 7847 gallons...enough if you could magically get 25+ mpg.

I'd say it's somewhere well north of 200,000 miles where the fuel cost equals out and the longevity of the diesel engine (lower repair bills) would start to offset the higher initial cost. The newer F-150 (mines a 2006) will get over 20 mpg on the highway so that tips it even more in it's favor.

Obviously, you did not see my "dick-waving" cost comparison, using REAL figures, that I posted above. Most people who buy a Diesel are going to keep it 100K miles at a MINIMUM. Again, if a half-ton gasser suits your needs, by all means, BUY it! My figures are dead-on. Diesel beats Gas, no matter how you compare it. Fuel mileage, longevity, carrying and towing capacity, durability, and resale. Hmmm...Excuse me, while I go wave my dick again.

Packard V8
11-28-2010, 04:00 PM
FWIW, I've got an '04 Ford F250 with the 6.0 Powerstroke. It gets 17 MPG loaded or unloaded, in town or on the highway. No way in hell it makes sense if the truck is mostly unloaded or used for commuting. Putting lots of empty miles on a big rig is a personal indulgence and if one can afford to spend the money in that manner, it's still a free country. However, I can't enjoy the exercise. It's like killing flies with a sledge hammer.

Another FWIW - I've got many friends and business associates who run Ford/Powerstroke, Dodge/Cummins and GM/Duramax fleets and who have to furnish receipts for business tax and income tax purposes. Based on what their go-to-jail mileage figures are, I'd say diesel pickup mileage figures are the second-most-exaggerated statistic on the internet.

jack vines

logical
11-28-2010, 04:13 PM
Obviously, you did not see my "dick-waving" cost comparison, using REAL figures, that I posted above. Most people who buy a Diesel are going to keep it 100K miles at a MINIMUM. Again, if a half-ton gasser suits your needs, by all means, BUY it! My figures are dead-on. Diesel beats Gas, no matter how you compare it. Fuel mileage, longevity, carrying and towing capacity, durability, and resale. Hmmm...Excuse me, while I go wave my dick again.

Well, no I didn't.

OK, now I have.

I don't see where we disagree.

RoofDude
11-28-2010, 05:29 PM
I currently own multiple trucks. Some diesel, some gas. I have a Dodge V-10: Pros ~ Pulls as good as any diesel Ive had or currently have. Cons ~ Horrible economy. 8mpg not towing. Very expensive truck. Something is always breaking down. Ive put more money into maintenance of this truck than all my others combined.

Dodge diesel: No maintenance issues (2002 3/4 ton). Tows great, decent economy. Avg 16-18mpg. Have gotten 20+ on road trips.

Ford diesel: Forgedaboudit. Towing beast. Not as good economy as the Dodge. Avg 14-16mpg.

Ford gas: Not much of a towing vehicle, is a '96 & by far the least expensive as far as maintenance, truck Ive ever owned.

I currently own 6 trucks. All Fords & Dodges. 3 gas, 3 diesel. Now keep in mind as Roofer, we USE our trucks. My trucks are constantly towing, loaded down, etc.... I doubt I'll ever buy another gas truck. With 20yrs in biz, & tons of work miles on my trucks, the diesels make more sense. I believe in the long run, the diesels are better value for the money. When all things are considered. Reliability, purchase cost, maintenance cost, fuel economy, power, etc...

akdiesel
11-28-2010, 05:37 PM
xroad,
Please chime in and let everyone know if you gathered the info you needed to make your choice, otherwise it is going to get uglier.

Aberdale
11-28-2010, 05:41 PM
Interesting comments both for and against. Here's where I netted out after my Dodge 3500 experience:

As I mentioned earlier, I own a farm. I bought the Dodge 3500 in 1999 plus a 20k gooseneck as the ultimate hauling rig. The Dodge had a 5.9 Cummins 12V and a 5 speed NV4500 tranny. 4WD. Impressive truck with an impressive price tag. I found I didn't need to actually pull the trailer as often as I thought I would. The 3500 rode like a log wagon unloaded, not too bad with about 1000 lbs in the bed. The biggest disappointment was that with the duallys and 4WD the truck was worthless on packed snow and ice. The next biggest disappointment was that the truck was truly scary to drive with a 20K trailer with 15K payload (usually 2 ag tractors). It will pull it, but it's just too small and doesn't have enough brakes for an emergency stop. I know lots of guys do it, but it's not safe by any means.

I ended up selling the whole rig and never had any regrets. Went back to a 1/2 ton for general light hauling and bought a real truck for hauling farm goods. I bought a class 6-7 tractor with air brakes, 7.8L diesel, and a 6 speed transmission. Then I removed the 5th wheel, and added a dump bed and a pintle hitch. Then I bought a 20k tag trailer. This rig will run circles around any 3/4 or 1 ton pickup when it comes to actually hauling a load, and its much, much safer. And the whole rig cost 1/3 the price of a diesel pickup and gooseneck. And averages 10 mpg fully loaded. And even without the trailer I can haul 3 cu. yds. of anything I want (dirt, gravel, mulch, manure, fertilizer, etc.) and can dump it instead of shovel it off.

But I only use the truck when I actually need to haul something. If I'm just running around or light duty errands, the 1/2 ton has a much nicer ride and gets better fuel economy. To each his own I guess. This is just working out well for me, ant thought I would pass it along.

Dale

Licensed to kill
11-28-2010, 06:46 PM
I didn't so much forget as I chose to draw the line at speculating on resale 10 years in the future.

Ah, I see. You chose to draw the line just before the evidence disproves the point you were trying to make. Sounds "Logical":bounce:

logical
11-28-2010, 10:09 PM
Ah, I see. You chose to draw the line just before the evidence disproves the point you were trying to make. Sounds "Logical":bounce:

So you think based on what the OP asked that he should buy a 3/4 ton diesel pick-up?

Licensed to kill
11-28-2010, 11:55 PM
So you think based on what the OP asked that he should buy a 3/4 ton diesel pick-up?

I think that the OP should read all of the responses, try to weed out the responses based on actual experience and knowledge from those of conjecture, then apply that information to his needs/wants and decide for himself. What I would do, or what I think he should do, has no bearing on his decision.

MD11
12-06-2010, 10:54 PM
I thought this might be helpful to the OP should he decide to go with a diesel..

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/12/5-minutes-with-gale-banks.html

Traditional hotrodder
12-07-2010, 12:43 AM
I bought a new Ford F-350 back in 2000. I just turned 230k miles on the truck. I can gaurantee that with as much pulling and hauling as I do a gasser would have been more than wore out by now. The diesel runs better than when new. That's not to say that the overall driving experience was any cheaper than a gasser, it's just that I'm confident that the longevity of a properly maintained diesel will far outweigh the added cost incurred.

Where I live it seems that every other vehicle is a 1 ton wether it be a Ford/Chevy/Dodge. It seems to be more of a status thing as most of these trucks are hardly worked. With that being said, to only keep a 1 ton truck for say 5 yrs or less till the next best thing arrives of course a gasser is going to win based upon $$$$ spent.

tulenutn2o
12-21-2010, 08:04 PM
My $.02 for what it's worth. I was a big diesel fan when fuel was cheaper than gas. Those times are gone. Now they charge 40-50 grand for a loaded diesel truck. I have a 79 f250 4x4 that is still going strong . This thing is the "moose". 460 auto, dana 70/60, supercab, longbox. pulls anything and hauls everything. Spent $5000 grand rebuilding a few years ago and had me a "new" truck. Truck runs on E-85 today, mainly due to the 13 to 1 compression, and widely available stations that handle E85 in our area. I bought a new ranger in 09 and a new f150 7700 in 2000. I think new trucks are out now. The ranger is nothing like my 94 ranger that had just shy of 300k when I traded. Metal is alot thinner,etc. I am sticking with old iron, with updates.

MD11
12-21-2010, 08:07 PM
Now they charge 40-50 grand for a loaded diesel truck.

Those figures are about right for a loaded gasser... you can add 10-15K for the diesels... When I was shopping, all the Dodges, Fords and GM's were 58K-66K depending on options.

NJHandyGuy
12-22-2010, 01:52 PM
OP i've ran both

honestly in my experience the diesel paid for itself IN THE LONG RUN
in the pic when i was running both trucks i ran the diesel more

in 2006 when i ran them truck 1 f150 cost more to run the logged 48,000 miles between fuel maintenance tires wear and tear and other then the diesel

truck 2 ram 2500 5.9 cummins logged 64321 miles from january 5th to december 29th at a cost of 1k less for fuel tires maintenance etc

truck 2 cost more to insure and register but still got 20 mpg compared to 14-16.5 was down less and ran more billable mile in the year

hope this helps

MD11
12-22-2010, 04:16 PM
This reminds me a lot of the synthetic vs mineral oil debate and how cost/benefit are seen... long run vs short.