View Full Version : What Tool for Crimping Ground Wires?


John in OH
12-12-2010, 07:02 PM
Recently I wanted to make a modification to a 120v switch and outlet box in my attached 2-car garage built in 2006.

Upon removing the box cover, I noted that the four bare ground wires were nicely crimped together via a copper "sleeve" with one of the ground wires left extra long for connection to the existing outlet switch body. The copper crimp connector/sleeve is about 3/8" long and about 1/4" in OD (prior to crimping). All four of the bare ground wires passed completely through the sleeve and the sleeve was uniformly crimped ALONG ITS ENTIRE LENGTH thus tightly securing all four ground wires. This long, full length, crimp has obviously been done by a special tool in one crimping action. Very nicely done!! Wish I had taken a photo!

I want to use this same technique on my future electrical work but I need information ... #1 - what is the correct name for this type of sleeve connector? #2 - what tool is used to make this uniform crimp along the entire length of the sleeve? #3 - where can I buy these connectors and this cool tool?

nate379
12-12-2010, 07:15 PM
I'm just wondering, what issue is there with just using a standard wire nut?

Falcon67
12-12-2010, 07:20 PM
Sounds nice. Normally, you just group all the coppers and twist them up with lineman's pliers, then maybe apply a wire nut.

John in OH
12-12-2010, 07:25 PM
Nate & Falcon,

As far as I know nothing is wrong with the wire nut technique ... that's the way I've always done it in the past. But this crimped sleeve is such a cool technique to connect ground wires, I want to know how it is done and maybe use this method in the future. You know, it's just the cool factor!!

mrb
12-12-2010, 07:26 PM
ideal makes them. their website isnt that great - download the catalog and you will find the sleeves and the tools listed for use with them.

John in OH
12-12-2010, 07:34 PM
mrb .... do you know what this particular crimping tool or technique is called?? It isn't done by the typical crimping tool used for connecting spade or lug connectors.

mrb
12-12-2010, 07:47 PM
theyre just called crimp sleeves. Ideal 410 is a p/n for the steel ones. Download the catalog and find them in there. In the crimp sleeve product description they list the crimp tools that can be used with them.

(there are many things that will crimp these, but to maintain UL listing integrity crimp connectors and terminals should only be crimped with the tools listed by the crimp connector manufacturer)

lots of linesman pliers also have a crimp die in them for crimping sleeves.

ecotec
12-12-2010, 07:53 PM
they are called buchanans.

ecotec
12-12-2010, 07:55 PM
use these- http://www.service.kleintools.com/Tool/PRD/Category/High-Leverage%20Side-Cutting%20Pliers%20-%20Connector%20Crimping%20PLIERS-SIDECUT-HLSCUTCNCR

mrb
12-12-2010, 08:01 PM
they are called buchanans.

theyre called crimp sleeves. buchannan (now part of ideal) is one manufacturer of them (as well as wire nuts, terminal strips, and some other stuff). I guess its one of those manufacturer or brand name becomes the generic term for a product such as NM-B = romex, FMC = greenfield, PVC coated GRC = robroy, etc

Djstorm100
12-12-2010, 08:18 PM
http://www.galesburgelectric.com/files/images/large/d_8249.jpg

THis is what I use to crimp lugs on to bigger wires.

Grogan14
12-12-2010, 09:18 PM
they are called buchanans.

We also just refer to them, generically perhaps, as buchanans. IMO, they're the only way to fly, especially when the device box contains multiple device straps, thus requiring more than one ground pigtail. They take up a lot less room in the box than a wire nut, and a lot less room to store. They come in several sizes, and insulating caps can also be purchased for them.

Ideal's Buchanan 4-way crimp tool here:

http://www.telephonesystems.info/catalog/model_C-24.htm?pid=1201&utm_source=fgl&utm_medium=plist1201&utm_term=C-24

Norcal
12-12-2010, 09:42 PM
http://www.tequipment.net/IdealC24.asp Really one of the few tools that are listed for splice caps...

Greatbear
12-12-2010, 09:58 PM
The next best thing is a wire nut called "Greenie" sold by Ideal. It's a normal-looking wire nut, but green in color and there's a hole in the top ofit . You assemble your wires, leaving one of them long, slide the nut down the wire to the rest of them and twist. Makes for a neat job, with one less wire needed in the batch for a pigtail.

There are other versions that have an attached stranded wire pigtail about 7 inches long with a forked lug connector on the other end.

MrMark
12-13-2010, 01:17 AM
You want this http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=15611&group_ID=797&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

or its lesser cousins.

The crimp sleeves are nice to repair ground wires that some jack ass cut too short and they are ideal for multiple pigtail situations as a poster above noted.

They do have a downside, though. They are tough to take apart. Also be very careful to make sure that you use a listed combination of wires.

mrb
12-13-2010, 01:39 AM
You want this http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=15611&group_ID=797&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

or its lesser cousins.

The crimp sleeves are nice to repair ground wires that some jack ass cut too short and they are ideal for multiple pigtail situations as a poster above noted.

They do have a downside, though. They are tough to take apart. Also be very careful to make sure that you use a listed combination of wires.

thats not the right tool for 'electrical' crimp sleeves. one should be using the crimper speecified by the sleeve manufacturer. For example C24 with buchannan sleeves, or one of the 4 or 5 tools listed with the Ideal 400 series sleeves.

MrMark
12-13-2010, 01:45 AM
thats not the right tool for 'electrical' crimp sleeves. one should be using the crimper speecified by the sleeve manufacturer. For example C24 with buchannan sleeves, or one of the 4 or 5 tools listed with the Ideal 400 series sleeves.

are you sure about that? Why does it look exactly like the Klein version, the Thomas and Betts version and the crimp die on the Klein lineman pliers?

I use Ideal 410 sleeves with it. Are you telling me that is not right? You better have some good evidence. No Harbor Freight stories.

Grogan14
12-13-2010, 06:51 AM
are you sure about that?

Incorrect for what the OP was talking about.

ishiboo
12-13-2010, 08:51 AM
are you sure about that? Why does it look exactly like the Klein version, the Thomas and Betts version and the crimp die on the Klein lineman pliers?

I use Ideal 410 sleeves with it. Are you telling me that is not right? You better have some good evidence. No Harbor Freight stories.

That crimper crimps the basic red/blue/yellow crimp connectors, which take one conductor each. Not the multiple-conductor crimps.

Could it crimp one? Maybe, so could a lineman's pliers, a vise or a hammer :)

Crimping anything requires very specific parameters to make a GOOD, long-lasting crimp, so typically one die is not successful at crimping more than one connector. Personally, for the red/blue/yellow conductors, I'd much prefer a ratcheting crimper anyway.

padronanniversary
12-13-2010, 09:32 AM
For a correct crimp on a specific device, a proper crimp tool is required. This essential in high current applications because you start getting a resistive junction that deteriorates in the crimp itself if not properly crimped. I deal in DC currents all day long and we see so many failures of the crimp joint because people tend to use a junk crimper (hand in China) vs a automated die crimp with the proper die.

That crimper crimps the basic red/blue/yellow crimp connectors, which take one conductor each. Not the multiple-conductor crimps.

Could it crimp one? Maybe, so could a lineman's pliers, a vise or a hammer :)

Crimping anything requires very specific parameters to make a GOOD, long-lasting crimp, so typically one die is not successful at crimping more than one connector. Personally, for the red/blue/yellow conductors, I'd much prefer a ratcheting crimper anyway.

mrb
12-13-2010, 09:53 AM
are you sure about that? Why does it look exactly like the Klein version, the Thomas and Betts version and the crimp die on the Klein lineman pliers?

I use Ideal 410 sleeves with it. Are you telling me that is not right? You better have some good evidence. No Harbor Freight stories.

NEC requires the splices be listed for grounding. Terminals and tools are listed combinations, you have to use the specified tool for the crimp sleeve.

John in OH
12-13-2010, 10:43 AM
This topic is starting to drift a little off of its intended subject, so, for clarification ...

I am NOT talking about the crimping of single conductors in the typical red/yellow/blue sleeves. I'm interested in the crimping technique and tool for multiple bare solid ground wires (mostly 12 & 14 gauge wire) within household/residential wall boxes. The ENTIRE sleeve - about 3/8-1/2" long - is uniformly crimped along it entire length ... not multiple single-point crimps typically done by the Klein crimper or linesman pliers.

This appears to be a really slick technique and I'll be installing a LOT of wall boxes in my new shop/garage ... if I can get ever get the construction off the ground! ... so I hope to use this technique.

mrb
12-13-2010, 11:14 AM
This topic is starting to drift a little off of its intended subject, so, for clarification ...

I am NOT talking about the crimping of single conductors in the typical red/yellow/blue sleeves. I'm interested in the crimping technique and tool for multiple bare solid ground wires (mostly 12 & 14 gauge wire) within household/residential wall boxes. The ENTIRE sleeve - about 3/8-1/2" long - is uniformly crimped along it entire length ... not multiple single-point crimps typically done by the Klein crimper or linesman pliers.

This appears to be a really slick technique and I'll be installing a LOT of wall boxes in my new shop/garage ... if I can get ever get the construction off the ground! ... so I hope to use this technique.

from the ideal catalog:

IDEAL hand tools U.L. listed for Model 410, 411, 412 Crimps: 30-420, 30-425, 30-429, 30-430.

MrMark
12-13-2010, 05:07 PM
NEC requires the splices be listed for grounding. Terminals and tools are listed combinations, you have to use the specified tool for the crimp sleeve.

I don't see any tool listed for the Ideal sleeves. I looked.

also, if that tool is incorrect for the crimp sleeve why does the Klein lineman come with that same crimp die. Surely, the Klein lineman is not for use to crimp the single wire connectors?

I remain unconvinced.

MrMark
12-13-2010, 05:11 PM
Funny

http://www.toolup.com/ideal_30-429_multi-crimp-tool.aspx


Maybe it's me, but that looks like my Snap-on.


some apologies are in order here.

Giraffe
12-13-2010, 05:14 PM
I'm interested in the crimping technique and tool for multiple bare solid ground wires (mostly 12 & 14 gauge wire) within household/residential wall boxes. .

John, I like this method too (I think). Maybe I would change my mind after wiring a few boxes. You seem to just be talking about using it for ground wires. Is it limited to ground? It does not seem so according to the Ideal catalog, unless I am not reading something right.

mrb
12-13-2010, 05:18 PM
Funny

http://www.toolup.com/ideal_30-429_multi-crimp-tool.aspx


Maybe it's me, but that looks like my Snap-on.


some apologies are in order here.

there are plenty of tools that will crimp the sleeves, i have a couple from klien and a pair of linesmans with the die. The issue is the UL listing.....if the sleeves arent listed for use with these other tools its not kosher. Does it ever get brought up in practice? usually not, but if you want to follow the letter of the law you have to use the tools that are listed for the sleeves. I doubt the ideal instructions say to use the snapon tool.

mrb
12-13-2010, 05:24 PM
i found a package of them, see the attached photo. You have to use the crimp tools listed to maintain the UL listing. If the instructions said 'crimp with any tool that fits' then it would be another story, but they do not.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=89475&stc=1&d=1292282632

MrMark
12-13-2010, 05:29 PM
I can live with that "violation," Lol.

The point is that the Snap-on is the exact same as the Klein and the Ideal tools recommended. Ideal isn't going to say "crimp with Snap-on tool".

There was some talking out the azz, (not you mrb) that I had some improper tool.

mrb
12-13-2010, 05:33 PM
the funny thing is ideal owns western forge which probably makes all three of those crimpers.

supertooljunkie
12-13-2010, 06:09 PM
This is what I use.

http://www.service.kleintools.com/Tools/PRD/Category/Crimping/Cutting%20Tools%20-%20Non-Insulated/Insulated%20Terminals%20STRIPPERS-CRIMPERS-CRCTNINSIN/Product/1005

John in OH
02-08-2011, 09:25 PM
I guess I remain unconvinced about the type of tool to use to make the ground crimp connection that I've got in my house. Early in this thread member 1969 asked for a photo ... so several are attached. Note the length of the crimped sleeve and how it is crimped in a "tadpole" shape. Not what I would expect from a pair of Klein or similar pliers. Maybe the Ideal C24 tool will make this style of crimp ... can anyone confirm this sleeve was crimped with an Ideal C24??? If not, any other suggestions?? It is really a cool crimp ... very smooth and tight!!

mrb
02-08-2011, 10:01 PM
the C24 tool is a 4 indent type crimper. what you have is nowhere a proper or good crimp -someone just smashed it with pliers

RbrtAWhyt
02-08-2011, 10:15 PM
I use a pair of these:

http://www.swps.com/909.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_content=909&utm_campaign=froogle

http://common1.csnimages.com/lf/1/hash/3906/3156264/1/Channellock+-+Crimpers+Crimping+Tool%3A+140-909-Bulk.jpg

MrMark
02-08-2011, 10:36 PM
That's terrible work! That could have been crimped with a hammer and a rock. It's supposed to be trimmed too. Those ground wires were cut WAY too short as well. All around butcher job.

Falcon67
02-09-2011, 10:40 AM
Is that a crimp or just a piece of copper pipe squished on there?

blueplate
02-05-2012, 08:42 AM
As some have posted:

Ideal crimp sleeve is available at home improvements stores; they make an 18-10 gauge version and another for larger wires. The crimp sleeve is available as Ideal #772413.

Buchanan is the right answer to the OP's question.

The instructions on the Ideal package say CRIMP WITH BUCHANAN CONSTRUCTION PRODUCTS 4-WAY CRIMP TOOL (MODEL C-24) WITH LATCH AT "A".

Gregishome
02-05-2012, 05:32 PM
Buchanon crimp tool 1980 vintage

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l244/sunnysmom123/DSC_0058.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l244/sunnysmom123/DSC_0059.jpg

trbomax
02-05-2012, 08:40 PM
Someone is gonna bust my chops for this but here goes anyway.a few years ago I made this one to crimp battery cables and welder stingers.Ive used it to crimp wire rope sleves and solid wire as you are asking about. Ive just used 5/16" or 3/8"soft copper tube for the sleeve.

PRH44
02-05-2012, 09:05 PM
Gregishome the statement 1980 vintage makes me feel old

buzz4041
02-05-2012, 10:33 PM
I guess I remain unconvinced about the type of tool to use to make the ground crimp connection that I've got in my house. Early in this thread member 1969 asked for a photo ... so several are attached. Note the length of the crimped sleeve and how it is crimped in a "tadpole" shape. Not what I would expect from a pair of Klein or similar pliers. Maybe the Ideal C24 tool will make this style of crimp ... can anyone confirm this sleeve was crimped with an Ideal C24??? If not, any other suggestions?? It is really a cool crimp ... very smooth and tight!!

John as an electrician I would not want to be copying that for any reason. That is a garbage connection and done incorrectly by a hack. There is no need to go get special connectors and a special crimping tool. Just use a good scotchlok or ideal wire nut and be done with it. Bundle your wires together twist them in the clockwise direction and install the wire nut.

Gregishome
02-06-2012, 05:47 AM
Gregishome the statement 1980 vintage makes me feel old


Oh yeah PRH,

When I dug them out of my old toolbox to take these pics of them above, a WHOLE lot of old slapped me up side my head. ....

Those old Buchanons and I crimped a LOT of ground wires back in the 80's.

Speaking of old, this thread was dug of from the graveyard of posts from Dec 2010 !