View Full Version : Gas cooktop problem


wbrian63
02-07-2011, 07:52 AM
Have a Dacor SGM365 gas cooktop. About 10 years old, and until recently has provided excellent service. 5 burners, electronic start.

Lately, it's getting "hard to start" for lack of a better term.

Turn any one of the knobs to light a burner. The click-click-click of the ignitors is heard, and the spark is visible at each burner, but it can take up to 10 seconds to get a flame.

Previously, when this has happened, it has been after a good cleaning, and the ignitor on the burner in question hasn't been sparking due to moisture.

However, in those situations, the smell of gas was evident, and the problem went away once the burner was lit manually and the heat drove the moisture out of the ignitor.

Now, no flame, and no gas smell either.

There's no evident decline in performance from any of the burners - can run all 5 full out without a visible decrease in flame height at any burner as another burner is lit.

All 5 burners exhibit the same issue. Only thing I can think of is the regulator, but I would assume that would result in reduced performance, which I noted doesn't appear to be happening.

Any suggestions?

crewchief888
02-07-2011, 08:33 AM
gas valve ?

:beer:

ddawg16
02-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Did you pay your gas bill?

Ok....just so we understand....

You NOW do NOT have any gas? You get the spark...but no gas? Please confirm.

Our gas range operates in a similar way.....the only real reason for having AC connected is for the electronic ignition....in the case of a power failure, the burners will still work.

So...if your not getting any gas at any burner.....start working back.....

Anything else in the house gas operated? If so, does it work?

wbrian63
02-07-2011, 05:56 PM
I do get gas, eventually. It used to light almost immediately - about 1 second or so.

Now, it takes 10+ seconds to light.

Before, if there was a delay in lighting, I would smell gas after the ignition did occur.

Now, I get no such smell - it's just taking longer and longer for the lighting to occur. The problem is on all 5 burners.

volpster31
02-07-2011, 06:03 PM
i would venture to guess theres a problem with the spark module...i work on most appliances(except cooking:headscrat) and im pretty sure theres a spark module located underneath the cooktop..a friend of mine had a similar issue & it was actually the wiring going to each burner was damaged,so check that also

Jayincali
02-07-2011, 06:07 PM
Might be your gas regulator taking a dump? :dunno:

Don't think its the gas valve, well because it just stays open all the time. Gas will flow through the open port in the valve, into the regulator, then into your burners.

Has this just started happening? I noticed that if I move the litte discs and they aren't seated properly, the gas wont come out either.

What brand is it? I had a Jen Air before, and although I would get gas, and a spark, it would not ignite. I never fixed it as I now have a new cook top. Are the electrodes. Is the ceramic part around the electrode broken?

wbrian63
02-07-2011, 06:37 PM
i would venture to guess theres a problem with the spark module...i work on most appliances(except cooking:headscrat) and im pretty sure theres a spark module located underneath the cooktop..a friend of mine had a similar issue & it was actually the wiring going to each burner was damaged,so check that also

I'll check to make sure that I'm getting a solid spark at each burner.

wbrian63
02-07-2011, 06:40 PM
i would venture to guess theres a problem with the spark module...i work on most appliances(except cooking:headscrat) and im pretty sure theres a spark module located underneath the cooktop..a friend of mine had a similar issue & it was actually the wiring going to each burner was damaged,so check that also

Might be your gas regulator taking a dump? :dunno:

Don't think its the gas valve, well because it just stays open all the time. Gas will flow through the open port in the valve, into the regulator, then into your burners.

Has this just started happening? I noticed that if I move the litte discs and they aren't seated properly, the gas wont come out either.

What brand is it? I had a Jen Air before, and although I would get gas, and a spark, it would not ignite. I never fixed it as I now have a new cook top. Are the electrodes. Is the ceramic part around the electrode broken?

Agreed on the gas valve. We have many other gas appliances (dryer, furnace, water heater) that aren't having issues.

Just started happening - getting worse.

Dacor is the brand, as noted in the original post.

Ceramic parts around the electrodes are intact.

I'll check tonight by unplugging the power for the ignitors. If I can get immediate ignition with another source (like a "light stick"), then I know it's not gas flow, but spark ignition that's the problem.

I'll report more when I know more.

Thanks for the postings up to this point.

Regards

bww_mnm
02-07-2011, 06:44 PM
Watching with interest as I'm having similar prob with my wolf rangetop. - Brad

ambenz
02-07-2011, 06:51 PM
I believe the valve is getting gummed up..not allowing the gas to excape as quick as it use too. The orafice also could be getting "deposits" around it's hole, restricting the correct amount of gas from the pipe. There is a lot of junk in natural gas.

scott37300
02-07-2011, 07:02 PM
I believe the valve is getting gummed up..not allowing the gas to excape as quick as it use too. The orafice also could be getting "deposits" around it's hole, restricting the correct amount of gas from the pipe. There is a lot of junk in natural gas.

This would be my guess also.

jerryW
02-07-2011, 08:46 PM
If I remember correctly, those have a safety solenoid in the gas line after the regulator. It's been a few years since I have worked on them though. There is a cooling fan for the control tied in to the solenoid also.


jerry

MN BIANCHI
02-07-2011, 09:00 PM
From Dacor FAQ:
Burners on my Cooktop or Range will not light or continue to spark after lighting, what can I do?Answer:
Using the igniter cleaning brush that came with your cooktop, brush completely around the igniter, including over and under the edge of the metal top and porcelain base. Use care while cleaning because the porcelain is fragile and can crack or break. Do not use water to clean the igniters. If necesary, use a small amount of rubbing alcohol to help dissolve grime.
Examine the burner rings. Remove anything stuck in the holes with a straightened paper clip, wire or needle. Be careful not to scratch or damage the ring and cap. Do not distort the shape of the burner ring holes.
Clean all the burner parts, including the burner bases, with window cleaner or rubbing alcohol. Use a cleaning brush with plastic bristles or a firm tooth brush. When done, rinse the parts well with clean water. Dry all the parts throroughly before re-assembling them.
Reassemble the cooktop according to the burner and grate assembly instructions starting in your product's Use and Care Manual. Test the burners after reassembling them. If the flame is uneven, be sure that the brass burner ring and porcelain burner cap are properly positioned, then check for any remaining dirt or grime on the burner parts or igniter. If erratic clicking is still present, make sure the igniter is completely dry. If the unit still exhibits problems after drying, call your local Dacor® authorized Service Agent.

wbrian63
02-08-2011, 08:56 AM
Did a little more testing last night. Next step is to pull the cooktop out and take it apart. Something's definitely amiss inside the unit.

Note that the cooktop had not been used since the prior evening. 24+ hours sitting idle.

Used a "flame stick" (one of those cheap-o butane lighters). Lit the stick and put it immediately adjacent to the "burn the house down" burner - highest BTU output burner.

Turned the gas on for that burner to high. No noise of flowing gas at all.

I counted 1-Mississippi all the way to 13-Mississippi before the burner lit. In the instant before ignition, I heard the sound of flowing gas.

So - positive evidence that the issue is no gas flow when first attempted to start after sitting unused overnight.

Turned the burner off. Attempted to relight it with normal method - immediate results.

Checked each of the other 4 burners for ignition. Each gets a strong spark immediately after the valve is turned to high. Each burner lit immediately.

I think it's for certain that there's something wrong inside the unit.

Possibly there's a safety solenoid as someone suggested. Maybe that's gotten lazy.

Possibly there's a clog in the orifice - but I would think that would result in reduced flow across the entire top, which is not what we're seeing.

Once the top lights, everything is working fine - it's just the initial delay that's the issue.

A few minutes with a screwdriver and we can continue testing the issue.

I have a pressure gauge that measures very low pressures - 10psi and below. Anyone know off hand what the proper operating pressure in a natural gas line should be inside the home?

Thanks for the tips and suggestions thus far. I'll report back when I have more information.

Tscott
02-08-2011, 09:47 AM
Did a little more testing last night. Next step is to pull the cooktop out and take it apart. Something's definitely amiss inside the unit.

Note that the cooktop had not been used since the prior evening. 24+ hours sitting idle.

Used a "flame stick" (one of those cheap-o butane lighters). Lit the stick and put it immediately adjacent to the "burn the house down" burner - highest BTU output burner.

Turned the gas on for that burner to high. No noise of flowing gas at all.

I counted 1-Mississippi all the way to 13-Mississippi before the burner lit. In the instant before ignition, I heard the sound of flowing gas.

So - positive evidence that the issue is no gas flow when first attempted to start after sitting unused overnight.

Turned the burner off. Attempted to relight it with normal method - immediate results.

Checked each of the other 4 burners for ignition. Each gets a strong spark immediately after the valve is turned to high. Each burner lit immediately.

I think it's for certain that there's something wrong inside the unit.

Possibly there's a safety solenoid as someone suggested. Maybe that's gotten lazy.

Possibly there's a clog in the orifice - but I would think that would result in reduced flow across the entire top, which is not what we're seeing.

Once the top lights, everything is working fine - it's just the initial delay that's the issue.

A few minutes with a screwdriver and we can continue testing the issue.

I have a pressure gauge that measures very low pressures - 10psi and below. Anyone know off hand what the proper operating pressure in a natural gas line should be inside the home?

Thanks for the tips and suggestions thus far. I'll report back when I have more information.

I used to work on commercial cooking equipment so I have some experience here. This to me sounds like a regulator problem. They do tend to fail over time and are sensitive to moisture and grime.

You mention a solenoid, but typically gas ranges don't have these. If you can run your cook top without power then you do not have an electric solenoid in the range. If you can't, then you may very well have one. In my experience, most commercial and residential rages are simply a manual gas valve with electronic ignition.

You can check your gas pressure with that gauge possibly but you may need a manometer. It has been so long I can't remember the proper pressure for Natural gas. I want to say it is 8-10 inches water column (around a 1/2 PSI) but I could be way off on that, so try and check your manual if you have one. Your stove may or may not have an access plug in the manifold to take a pressure reading even some commercial units don't have them and it can be a real pain to diagnose them.

My gut tells me regulator, but to be sure, just start at the burner manifold and work back toward the valve in the wall.

Tom

Jayincali
02-08-2011, 04:55 PM
I used to work on commercial cooking equipment so I have some experience here. This to me sounds like a regulator problem. They do tend to fail over time and are sensitive to moisture and grime.

You mention a solenoid, but typically gas ranges don't have these. If you can run your cook top without power then you do not have an electric solenoid in the range. If you can't, then you may very well have one. In my experience, most commercial and residential rages are simply a manual gas valve with electronic ignition.

You can check your gas pressure with that gauge possibly but you may need a manometer. It has been so long I can't remember the proper pressure for Natural gas. I want to say it is 8-10 inches water column (around a 1/2 PSI) but I could be way off on that, so try and check your manual if you have one. Your stove may or may not have an access plug in the manifold to take a pressure reading even some commercial units don't have them and it can be a real pain to diagnose them.

My gut tells me regulator, but to be sure, just start at the burner manifold and work back toward the valve in the wall.

Tom

Yea I figured it was the regulator as well. And yes, I think the psi is around .4

ajd
06-21-2011, 05:43 PM
i just found this site and saw your posting about the gas cooktop taking long time to light. i having the same problem with my dacor. please let me know if you find the solution!!!! you couldnt of described it better.

Milton Shaw
06-21-2011, 08:59 PM
Gas pressure should be 4" water pressure for NG and 7" for LP. SOunds like a regulator to me also. These tops as mentioned are bad about gas holes being clogged up from cleaning them. Do all the steps with soft brushes like the other one mentioned. Seen a lot a ajax and cleaning stuff built up in the holes blocking the flow to the spark. These pressures are too low to read with anything but a manometer. It takes 33' of water pressure to equal 14.7 pounds pressure, so forget gauges.

Greatbear
06-21-2011, 10:28 PM
You might have moisture buildup in the gas line going to the cooktop. If there is a low point in the line, this is possible.

wbrian63
08-14-2011, 03:19 PM
Solution - replaced regulator - 10 minutes work.

Got it online from ApplianceZone - $41.95 with shipping.

Frank The Plumber
08-14-2011, 04:00 PM
If this unit has a remote inline gas regulator just change it, be sure to use the exact same unit type to replace it with. These are not too pricey and fairly easy to swap out.

wbrian63
08-14-2011, 10:35 PM
Yes - that's what I said. I'm the OP. I replaced the regulator - problem solved.

I think you'd mentioned this earlier in the thread, which is why I went in that direction...

Regards