View Full Version : What SAE or Metric to use on Whitworth sizes?


Frank
02-16-2011, 04:46 PM
Is there a good SIMPLE chart showing the equivalent wrench sizes for Whitworth? I've got a Peugeot moped that is Whitworth I am working on and its not worth the investment to buy a set of tools just for this.

At least I am assuming its Whitworth unless someone can tell me what the heck is it when everything SAE or metric I have doesn't work. I dare not lose any of the fasteners because I sure can't find them when I take to a hardware store.

Moose-LandTran
02-16-2011, 04:48 PM
Peugeot moped that's Whitworth? Are you sure? I very much doubt it is, and imagine it's probably metric.

sheep shagger
02-16-2011, 05:06 PM
I can't believe a French moped is using whitworth. I would think it's more lightly to be metric, considering the metric system was taken from the French sizing system originally, and the frogs have been using that since the 1800 or something.
Depending on the year, I suppose they may have used Imperial or Witworth as most bike manufactures were using that around pre 60's or so. But your SAE stuff should work on bolt heads and such, the real difference is the threads.

ZRX61
02-16-2011, 05:45 PM
But your SAE stuff should work on bolt heads and such...

No it won't.. ;)

Moose-LandTran
02-16-2011, 05:54 PM
Interesting username..

GrantCee
02-16-2011, 07:23 PM
How old is it?

I don't know about Peugeot mopeds, but as late as the '70s French bicycles used non-standard metric thread pitches. For instance, Peugeot used a M5x1.0 instead of the standard M5x0.8

Wrench sizes, though, were normal metric IIRC.

lwlobo
02-16-2011, 07:30 PM
Open the pdf at the bottom of this page:

http://www.dansmc.com/tools.htm

Frank
02-16-2011, 08:32 PM
Its a 1980 Peugeot 102sp moped. I know that when I lost a nut once, I could not find a replacement at any store that carried typical metric threads. I also know that some of hardware seems to be metric while some seem to be in between. I've got some stubborn bolts and afraid I'll round some off.

sheep shagger
02-16-2011, 08:39 PM
No it won't.. ;)

I must be remembering incorrectly. Growing up I had an old BSA, I seem to remember that I always managed to find something out of my dads imperial stuff that was close enough to work. And I had to work on it a lot:).

airbuff101
02-16-2011, 08:57 PM
Its a 1980 Peugeot 102sp moped. I know that when I lost a nut once, I could not find a replacement at any store that carried typical metric threads. I also know that some of hardware seems to be metric while some seem to be in between. I've got some stubborn bolts and afraid I'll round some off.

Frank,
It's all metric on that.
You won't need any other tools.
Rob

GrantCee
02-16-2011, 09:03 PM
Its a 1980 Peugeot 102sp moped. I know that when I lost a nut once, I could not find a replacement at any store that carried typical metric threads. I also know that some of hardware seems to be metric while some seem to be in between. I've got some stubborn bolts and afraid I'll round some off.

1980 would definitely be metric all around.

The thread issue is no doubt due to some sizes having several standardized pitches, only two of which are ever common. For instance, an M10 bolt is available in coarse (x1.50) and three fine (x0.75, x1.00, and x1.25) pitches. A good hardware store will have the x1.50 and the x1.25, a good industrial supply might also have the x1.00, but you'd have to go to a specialty fastener supplier to get the x0.75, - and you might have to put in a special order even then.

As to wrench sizes, I really don't know what to say. :dunno: They should be absolutely normal metric sizes, and unless someone substituted a bolt along the way there should be zero SAE on the thing.

Maybe it's because you're using crappy Snap-On wrenches. :p Buy some decent Wright wrenches and you won't have that problem! :D:D:D

Steevo
02-16-2011, 09:28 PM
Even the Limeys stopped using Whitworth sizes by the 1980's.

v8garage
02-17-2011, 12:28 AM
Open the pdf at the bottom of this page:

http://www.dansmc.com/tools.htm

Great Info! I saved that chart.
V/8

bmfenn
02-17-2011, 01:53 AM
Even the Limeys stopped using Whitworth sizes by the 1980's.

My 2004 Land Rover still has a couple random ones on it.

Moose-LandTran
02-17-2011, 02:12 PM
My 2004 Land Rover still has a couple random ones on it.

Don't think so. Unless you count 14mm as being 9/16". :lol:

GrantCee
02-17-2011, 02:26 PM
Don't think so. Unless you count 14mm as being 9/16". :lol:

I called a friend who's a certified LR tech, and he said the only thing on the vehicle that he can think of that might seem to be Whitworth is the hub nut. It's 52mm, which isn't a common size unless you have a 1" drive wrench (and shop at a tool manufacturer as opposed to Sears.) He said a 2-1/16" socket also fits, but that's even less common - 2-1/8" is what you'll typically find in most stores.

So, he says that people assume because Craftsman doesn't have the right socket that it "must be" Whitworth.

FWIW. I don't have a dog in that fight, because I prefer to own reliable vehicles. :p

bmfenn
02-17-2011, 02:27 PM
Exhaust manifold bolts are 1/2" whitworth, the Valve cover bolts are 5/16, and the brake caliper bolts are also, I just don't remember the size off hand. I just use a sae 12pt socket to remove them.

GrantCee
02-17-2011, 02:36 PM
Exhaust manifold bolts are 1/2" whitworth

You sure about that? Called my buddy back (luckily it's a slow day at the shop) and he said not to his knowledge - they're either a 12mm 12-point or a 13mm 6-point depending on the model year.

Just for fun I looked up the metric equivalent to 1/2" Whitworth, and it's 23mm! I find it very hard to believe that there's room between the cylinders for a 23mm bolt.

(Chart I used: http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/conversion%20charts.htm)

Moose-LandTran
02-17-2011, 02:38 PM
Exhaust manifold bolts are 1/2" whitworth, the Valve cover bolts are 5/16, and the brake caliper bolts are also, I just don't remember the size off hand. I just use a sae 12pt socket to remove them.

They're all metric. 5/16"? No, more like 8mm. If i recall correctly the brake caliper/carrier bolts are 22mm or 27mm. I used to do contract work for a dealership and worked on many Sports/Vogues/Discos. I have an '03 Vogue at work and it's all metric. They may be cross-over sizes, but not imperial or Whitworth.

What engine does it have?

ZRX61
02-17-2011, 02:41 PM
Interesting username..

Probably Welsh....:lol_hitti

ZRX61
02-17-2011, 02:44 PM
Even the Limeys stopped using Whitworth sizes by the 1980's.

However, Whitworth style threads are still used. ARP use them but in Imperial/Standard sizes. That's why you can get hellacious torque on ARP hardware without it striping :)

Moose-LandTran
02-17-2011, 02:44 PM
Probably Welsh....:lol_hitti

That's what i thought.

bmfenn
02-17-2011, 03:02 PM
The engine is a 4.6l Rover V8. it's interesting, everything that bolts into the block is SAE, and everything else is usually metric. I must just be confusing 12pt bolt heads with whitworths.

Moose-LandTran
02-17-2011, 03:58 PM
The engine is a 4.6l Rover V8. it's interesting, everything that bolts into the block is SAE, and everything else is usually metric. I must just be confusing 12pt bolt heads with whitworths.

Had a '96 Vogue in today with that engine, spotted the 12-point exhaust manifold bolts on it. Will check the size when it comes back in. (misfire) Maybe the block threads are imperial, but i only have metric tools and have worked on a few without any problems. They ain't Whitworth, that's for sure.