View Full Version : Worst Engines, Post Em Up


Chadro
02-22-2011, 08:23 PM
Haven't seen a worst engines thread so what the hell. Cars, Trucks, Motorcycles whatever, just post em up.

Worst I've had first hand experience with as far as a car goes has got to be the Ford 3.8L. Holy head gaskets Batman.

It's actually a tie for trucks but Mack has the honor of making both of them. The 427's and the 460's when they first came out were pretty terrible. My old fleet started having ok luck with the later 460's but the 427's were constantly broke down.

Diesel-Mech
02-22-2011, 08:29 PM
Any ACERT Cat is a pretty fair bet.

Garage5.9
02-22-2011, 08:29 PM
Mazes/ford 3.0 escape motor pisses me off to no end doing a head job once. Also the deal 4 cylinder camry motor where it builds up all that sludge on the rockers when not serviced regularly

Garage5.9
02-22-2011, 08:30 PM
Camry is what I meant to say

Gooch
02-22-2011, 08:33 PM
GM 3.4 DOHC is up there

a friend had a Nissan Sentra with a (i think 1.8) SE-R and that was pretty bad too.

tdkkart
02-22-2011, 08:34 PM
Vega 4 cylinder, GM 5.7 Diesel

42qn30
02-22-2011, 08:38 PM
The Camry with the 2.2L was bulletproof. Their v6's were nice as well. I don't about the newer ones but I have a 2004 Camry with the 4cyl and she's got 120K mi on the clock.\

Edit: Worst engine I worked on has to be the 2000+ cougar v6. Awful layout.

The Olds Aurora V8 FWD too.

sheep shagger
02-22-2011, 08:39 PM
Not the worst engine, but the worst engine to work on while it's inside the car.
Audi 2.7T. (V6 twinturbo) This was just to replace cam seals.
http://sheepshagger.smugmug.com/Cars/Misc/IMGP0736/1070021736_iYhUF-L.jpg

But the wife's Audi allroad station wagon now has a lot bigger turbos,:thumbup: but you need to pull the whole engine / trans and suspension subsystem to do that.:mad:

wafrederick
02-22-2011, 08:59 PM
The 4.6 northstar in the Cadillacs.known for headgasket failures and even worse.The threads come out of the block when removing the headbolts.The Chrysler 2.7,biggest POS Chrysler ever came out with.Put in 1998 to 2004 Dodge intrepids,Sebrings and Stratuses,base level 300s and Magnums.Timing chain failures,weak bottom ends and known for sludge build up.1970s Ford engines,pile of junk and 351M including the 400 were this way.Bottom ends went out of these.Ford did come out with a 360 V8 that was no good either in the 1960s.Can't forget the 6.0 and 6.4 powerstoke engines,blow up with no warning at all.GM did have the RWD 3.8 v6 that was a turd.There was a 2.0 that was made in Brazil made for GM which was no good and parts for these are about obsolete now.Headgasket failures with these also.Japanese,the Toyota Corolla engines and one yard owner in my area gets tons of calls for these engines.The 1.8 turbo engines in the VWs are junk,Dealerships have these on hand in stock.

wraptor
02-22-2011, 09:11 PM
Caddy 4-6-8 and mid 1980's 4100 V8 Cadillac junk.
Buick diesel motors.

aussiek2000
02-22-2011, 09:15 PM
Chrysler 2.7l, GM 3.4l DOHC, GM quad 4

trbomax
02-22-2011, 09:18 PM
In the late 60's-early 70's the GM v 6 dh478 Toro Flow diesel. there was a v 8 version too,d -dh 672. They were adapted from an earlier gas engine design

They didnt learn anything from that and did the same thing with the 5.7l diesel.

december45
02-22-2011, 09:20 PM
the 1.8 L SOHC straight-4 which produced 75 hp in an early Chevy LUV made by Isuzu, had terrible luck with that motor.

Chadro
02-22-2011, 09:26 PM
Any ACERT Cat is a pretty fair bet.

I always hear the same. Last Cat I worked on was a C15, but it was in a 2003 or 2004 truck so it was a dream to work with. The fleet I work for is mostly Volvo 12's and 13's which are a nightmare but I got a job offer at another fleet that runs almost all ISX's. I guess I see why the local Cat dealer is ALWAYS hiring techs for their truck dept.

jethro29
02-22-2011, 09:28 PM
north star and quad four,i turn them both away .

spazzer
02-22-2011, 09:30 PM
The 3.0L V6 in the Cadillac Catera, early CTS and some Saturns.

dlenkewich
02-22-2011, 09:37 PM
I've had good luck with everything I've owned.

Apparantly I own one of the terrible motors - the Ford 6.4L diesel.

50,000kms and good so far, knock on wood.

poprockcrusher
02-22-2011, 09:38 PM
duratec 3.0 -mazda v6 - rotary - toyota 3.0 -4100 cad - but the 4.5 and 4.9 were very good -poorly maintained northstar -early ford 4.6 mod motor -2.4 chrysler - 2.6 mitsu - 2.2 chrysler - mitsi 3.0 -chryler 3.7 4.7 -chevy 305 - chevy 200 229 v6 - chevy 250 intergral intake manifold 6 -ford 255 v8 - lincoln 5.0 soft blocks - olds diesel -olds 260 307 - buick 3.8 a 3300 3.0 3.8 3 - single cam quad 4 sucks - pontiac 1.8/2.0 though the turbo hauled ass in its time - 22r toyota with a loose timing chain

NUTTSGT
02-22-2011, 09:41 PM
It's the worst one I destroyed, does that count ?

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/nuttsgt/splitblockpics007.jpg

srmofo
02-22-2011, 09:43 PM
Are we talking worse to work on? or the biggest pile of shit?

marnav1
02-22-2011, 09:49 PM
Not a terrible motor IMO but lots of issues with lower and upper intake gaskets, 3800 Buick. Once fixed though are good.

Eric Nordstrom
02-22-2011, 09:50 PM
Pontiac 301 V8
Chevy 267 V8
Caddy 4,6,8
whatever the 4cl in the Ford Escort.
I'm sure there are some I'm missing but oh well.
Eric

RMR&C
02-22-2011, 09:55 PM
My GM 3.4 DOHC leaks like a sieve.....but it goes like a scalded dog. Just waiting for it to grenade.
Olds 307 V8... 70's Lincoln 460 V8. Both choked down with smog junk.
Ford 300 six with EFI, what a dog....the older carb versions will run circles around them.

oilslick
02-22-2011, 09:57 PM
2.7 dodge takes the cake, total crapola

poprockcrusher
02-22-2011, 10:36 PM
3.0 3.2 catera opel V6 , sucks , but has great power
3.4 x , think those are all off the road now

poprockcrusher
02-22-2011, 10:37 PM
Pontiac 301 V8
Chevy 267 V8
Caddy 4,6,8
whatever the 4cl in the Ford Escort.
I'm sure there are some I'm missing but oh well.
Eric

I had a 301 4 speed trans am - that ran pretty good

Plombob
02-22-2011, 10:40 PM
The early mechanics had a saying: "If you see a Knox engine falling from the sky, no need to duck. It'll stop before it hits you."

tonydanzah
02-22-2011, 10:47 PM
The caddilac 3.6 motor in the cts has zero room as the toyota 3zve 3.0 in the hilux

Mike662
02-22-2011, 11:17 PM
To the OP....quite a few problems with the early 6.0 Powerstrokes.



It's the worst one I destroyed, does that count ?

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/nuttsgt/splitblockpics007.jpg



NUTTSGT, I'll bet there's a pretty cool story behind that one.

hofferwood
02-22-2011, 11:21 PM
This one.
When they first came out here, a buddy had one for a minute:lol_hitti
http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/hofferwood/air%20compressor/220px-Wankel_Cycle_anim_en.gif
Chuck

IndyGarage
02-22-2011, 11:32 PM
I've put over 200k miles on Toyota 3.0's - owned 3 of them, and they all had over 100K when I bought them. I can't agree with anyone who says they are bad - I think it's a great engine - you just can't go 30K miles without changing the oil.

My most annoying have been:

First Chevy 305 with knock sensor 1982 - it ran bad the day it was new. After fighting with it for a year or so, I located the GM engineer who designed it and he told me how to turn the knock sensor off, and it ran fine

Ford Escort 4 cylinder - late 80's - my Mom bought one of these new, and it went through at least 4 new ECU's at about $500 a pop, and after awhile, so many of them went bad, that they couldn't get the part for weeks.

Porsche 928 - I hesitate to put it here - the mechanicals were sweet, but that Bosch K-Jetronic and the electricals were a nightmare.

Another similar engine is the Ford 6.0 Powerstroke - the engine that nearly put Navistar out of business. Funny thing is they are a fantastic engine when they run correctly. They just have a bad design for the exhaust/EGR system and the oil cooler, which inevitably blows the head gaskets - which are so hard to replace that mechanics often have to remove the entire cab of the truck so they can fix it. Ford always blamed Navistar for the problem, but I wonder if it was them or the Ford installation designers that screwed up.

Chevy 6.0 V8 - I had this POS for 5 years. It had terrible piston slap. The check engine came on randomly whenever you drove it more than 20 miles from home, and periodically it would go into limp home mode and only go 20 mph.

I had a Briggs 6 hp on a Jacobsen lawnmower that self destructed twice in less that two years from new. And in between it was the hardest starting thing I ever owned.

I had an 8 hp Briggs IC on a Troybuilt Chipper Vac that broke it's crankshaft in half two times - not sure what kind of crap metal they were made of, but I gave the whole thing away the second time.

tonydanzah
02-22-2011, 11:51 PM
Not saying the 3.0 is a bad motor, was a strong runner. But it was not as accesible as I would of liked. It was also a turd powerwise

5-0stank
02-22-2011, 11:55 PM
Chevy 6.0 V8 - I had this POS for 5 years. It had terrible piston slap. The check engine came on randomly whenever you drove it more than 20 miles from home, and periodically it would go into limp home mode and only go 20 mph.

These motors sometimes have some quirks, but for the most part are pretty damn reliable. I really don't know anyone that has had a problem w/ them. A broken exh manifold bolt here and there, that's about it. There's a reason people swap gen III/IV chevy motors into everything.

I have one in my '09 and it takes a beating. Even makes 300rwhp (w/ just a tune and drop-in filter) w/ 295/70r17's :D

engineboy
02-22-2011, 11:59 PM
It's the worst one I destroyed, does that count ?

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/nuttsgt/splitblockpics007.jpg

Thats whatcha call a catastrophic failure. :rocker:

Too much boost for that poor little SBF? :lol:

5-0stank
02-23-2011, 12:06 AM
Thats whatcha call a catastrophic failure. :rocker:

Too much boost for that poor little SBF? :lol:

I saw a split block and knew right away what it was/what happened...lol.

jwillis
02-23-2011, 12:15 AM
Before most of your guy's time- The Edsel engines in the late 50s. Today- Ford 3.8 --V-6. I've had three- pretty much a piece of $hit.

Hiball
02-23-2011, 04:32 AM
This one.
When they first came out here, a buddy had one for a minute:lol_hitti
http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/hofferwood/air%20compressor/220px-Wankel_Cycle_anim_en.gif
Chuck

Ive owed 5 rotary engine cars and outside of being Gas Hungry and Requiring Oil Checkage in between oil changes, I never had any mechanical issues. The Twin Turbo engines where hard on Apex seals but the feeling you get from those motors at +9K is unbelieveable. My latest was a 05 RX8 and outside of being a dog at -5K (Note to Mazda... Need Factory turbo setup) it was one of the best handling cars ive ever owned. Im currently looking for a RX2 for a Project...:thumbup:

Kevin54
02-23-2011, 04:51 AM
Of all that I have owned, I have to say Chevy's 4.3 V6. They've probably sold more replacement intake gaskets for those pieces of crap than any other engine.

nissan_crawler
02-23-2011, 05:04 AM
2.9L Ford V-6. Couldn't get one to last over 30-40k miles for farm use

GMC 305 V-6. No balls, highly disliked any RPM.

401 Ford...no balls.

370 Ford...no balls.

z28snksknr
02-23-2011, 05:53 AM
Of all that I have owned, I have to say Chevy's 4.3 V6. They've probably sold more replacement intake gaskets for those pieces of crap than any other engine.

+1 and I'll add that they are the loudest running piles of garbage I've ever heard. When I was younger, I could hear some 4.3 equipped S10 / Blazer coming in time to bet my friends I knew what car was going to drive by next. I have no idea what made them so loud. :dunno:

wafrederick
02-23-2011, 07:12 AM
I know about the 2.7 in the Chrysler products.Put crankshaft kits,timing chains and waterpumps.Have one of these on the engine stand,someone did not do a waterpump job right.The pulley on the waterpump including the timing chain broke and the waterpump was brand new.It is an interferance engine and did bend about 4 valves.There is a fix with the Intrepids and Concordes with the 2.7,convert them to a 3.2 or 3.5 and I have done a few of these conversions.Need a donor car to do this.The 4.3 is a good engine and Fel Pro does sell the upgraded intake gaskets for this engine made out of metal.Jasper even uses them in their reman 4.3s.Don't use synthetic oil in a 4.3.My neighbor Ken's wife was talked into using synthetic oil in a S10 with a 4.3 she once had.The lifters rattled like crazy and went away changing back to convential oil.

hetkind
02-23-2011, 07:20 AM
Before most of your guy's time- The Edsel engines in the late 50s. Today- Ford 3.8 --V-6. I've had three- pretty much a piece of $hit.


That would be the Mercury-Lincoln-Edsel version of the Ford Y-Block...and the Y-block would be my vote for one of the worst engine series.

SM Racing
02-23-2011, 08:57 AM
Its funny to note that most of the engines listed are American. What does that say about the quality of American Automotive engines? I'll add the 3.8 Ford V6. Flaming pile of crap. Needs head gaskets constantly. How about the VW Audi 1.8T? Sludge problem from the factory.

I don't know what 4.3 engines you guys have been dealing with, but the last one I had was still going strong at 260K miles. The only thing that had ever been done was plugs, oil, filters and coolant. Maybe the intake gasket problems are caused by DEXCOOL. Don't know, but the 4.3 I had was quiet and dead nuts reliable.

Tom2
02-23-2011, 09:03 AM
Most are American because that's what most of us are familiar with. I'd say the majority of people here have owned mostly American cars in their lifetimes.

I had a 4.3l in an 80s Caprice. Good motor, good car. Smoked a little oil on startup..but it was 20 years old at the time and had close to 200k miles on it. Probably just needed valve seals.

I just did a headgasket on a 3.0 Ford.. Hopefully that's the worst of the problems I have with it.

The GM 3.1L were good motors, but again, intake gasket leaks. They all had them terribly..

I almost bought an Intrepid with the 2.7L motor. I put a deposit on it, went home and looked up some info on it online. Couldn't believe all the issues they had! Went back and asked for my money back. Luckily they agreed. Dodged a close one there..

LocoCoco
02-23-2011, 09:08 AM
Mid-'80s Chev 2.8L V6 that made it into the '84-'87 Jeep Cherokee as the optional big engine over the base AMC 2.5L I4. Pathetically, the optional V6 only put out 10 lb-ft more torque and actually produced 2 hp less than the base 4-banger. Then aside from that, it was arguably the least reliable engine to have ever been put into a Jeep.

On the water, I'm sure any boater will agree about the catastrophy that was Chrysler outboards, then later "US Marine - Force", then later "Mercury-Force".



LC.

mp23
02-23-2011, 09:23 AM
Ford Escort 4 cylinder - late 80's - my Mom bought one of these new, and it went through at least 4 new ECU's at about $500 a pop, and after awhile, so many of them went bad, that they couldn't get the part for weeks.


I believe that was a 2.3 or 2.4 litre cant remember for sure. I do remember working at a service station when I was just out of high school and that those escorts and tempos were the bulk of the service business. They blew control modules and timing belts like crazy.

mp23
02-23-2011, 09:24 AM
Ford Escort 4 cylinder - late 80's - my Mom bought one of these new, and it went through at least 4 new ECU's at about $500 a pop, and after awhile, so many of them went bad, that they couldn't get the part for weeks.


I believe that was a 2.3 or 2.4 litre cant remember for sure. I do remember working at a service station when I was just out of high school and that those escorts and tempos were the bulk of the service business. They blew control modules and timing belts like crazy.

PaulsGarage
02-23-2011, 09:34 AM
I've worked on many different kinds of cars and engines and I must say the worst both in design and to repair is hands-down no-questions-asked the Jaguar 12 cyl in the XJS. Never before has so much displacement made so little power nor leaked so many vital fluids. The design is archaic and dates back to the 70's E-types and they just kept adding emissions and fuel injection garbage to it. Even a simple repair will require hours of pain and suffering, and it will still leak anyway.

An absolute turd!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/2682694289_cedd585bf9.jpg?v=0
(photo not mine, google image search)

56nash
02-23-2011, 09:48 AM
Mid-'80s Chev 2.8L V6 that made it into the '84-'87 Jeep Cherokee as the optional big engine over the base AMC 2.5L I4. Pathetically, the optional V6 only put out 10 lb-ft more torque and actually produced 2 hp less than the base 4-banger. Then aside from that, it was arguably the least reliable engine to have ever been put into a Jeep.

On the water, I'm sure any boater will agree about the catastrophy that was Chrysler outboards, then later "US Marine - Force", then later "Mercury-Force".



LC.

I have to agree with the 2.8 in the Jeep, had an '84 cherokee with that motor. It has got to be the biggest turd I have ever owned. In fact when it finally grenaded, the damn thing didn't run much different with a hole in the drivers side of the block and running on 5 instead of 6 cylinders. It did use most of the oil getting home, but it really didn't seem to run any worse. When the oil light came on about 20 minutes after what I thought was a backfire, I stopped to look things over and found oil everywhere, found the hole, put in 3 more quarts of oil and drove another ten minutes home. I guess it is either the biggest piece of crap I have ever had or hands down the thoughest one to kill.

Theloniousmonk
02-23-2011, 09:56 AM
I second the Jag 12cyl.
& add:

Ferraria 308 (magnum PI) 3liter injected (cis) V8
Nissan 2.5 QR25DE in the SE-R's and altimas... total POS

saabman
02-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Toyota 3VZ (3 liter V6) as used in early 90s 4 Runners. The crossover exhaust caused burned exhaust valve failure and the head gaskets (recalled as I recollet) were a failure point. Oh did I mention their propensity to sludge.

warmpancakes
02-23-2011, 10:18 AM
This one.
When they first came out here, a buddy had one for a minute:lol_hitti
http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/hofferwood/air%20compressor/220px-Wankel_Cycle_anim_en.gif
Chuck

Behold the power of doritos on a stick

Busted_Knuckles
02-23-2011, 10:37 AM
6.0L Ford Powerstroke
3.8L Essex Ford V6 (Taurus, Sable, Windstar, Continental)
3.5L Chrysler V6 and its derivatives
2.3L Quad Four and its derivatives
5.7L Olds V8 Diesel
4.6L Northstar V8
2.8L Chevy V6 early carbed models

I list the above, mostly due to REPEATED failure related problems,..Ive never played or worked on many imports, so none ar listed...

T56 Impala
02-23-2011, 10:44 AM
Poorest design, Toyota 8RC. Not the later 18RC, but the origional 8RC. Design flaw consumed heads (not gaskets) every 15-25k. Once the engineers figured that out and made the 18RC, (direct bolt on head swap) they continued to eat valves every 20k or so. Once they figured out to use stainless valves the next weak link was exposed. The timing chain tensioner. It the oil got dirty, the tensioner would stick in the full extended position and "POP" there went the chain. That was about every 50k or so. The carbs were a joke and the engine had such a bad vibration that it would actually crack the metal fuel lines over time.

One good point.... they were easy to pull out and repair. Did my first rebuild at age 9 on one of these. Again at 11, 13, 14, 16....... we sold that car with 389,000+ on the OD. I think the engine only had about 12k on it at the time.

The worst to work on, for me, has to be either the Northstar or the GM 3.6. The BMW V-8s are pretty ugly too.

wafrederick
02-23-2011, 11:04 AM
The 3.5 Chrysler is a good engine.Outruns the 2.7 hands down.Seen a couple go bad so far,someone "hotroded" them.Most people now know the 2.7 to 3.5/3.2 swap.Look under the hood of most 1970s Jaguars,350 Chevys in them.The original engines blew up.GM did put a electronic fuel system to hell on the 350s,It was the crossfire setup with 2 throttle bodies,first on Corvettes.Was put on Camaros and Firebirds including the Trans Am.Most took that off replacing it with a Carb set up or converting it to multi port fuel injection

tdkkart
02-23-2011, 11:08 AM
The funny part about this thread is that for every crappy experience listed with each individual engine, somebody else can come up with examples of the very same engines that ran for 3 lifetimes with no issues.

5.7 GM Diesels, I knew a bunch of poeple that had problems with them, but also knew a ton that ran the piss out of them with no issues. I knew one guy that ran several to 200k+ in his road sales job. He bought low mileage used cars and stockpiled them.

1.6 and 1.9 Ford Escorts- alot of people had issues, alot ran them forever. We had 2 1.9 GT Escorts with well over 150,000 miles on each, never even lost a head gasket.

4.3l Chevy--It's a 350 with 2 cylinders lopped off, no reason for it to be any less reliable than a 350 or any other small block.

6.0,6.4 Powerstrokes-- For these things being such monster pieces of shit, why do I see scads of them for sale with 2-300,000 miles on them for premium prices. If they were junk they'd be stacked in piles in junkyards with 50,000miles on them.

All the various Chrysler Minivan engines-- sure is a shit load of these things out there with HUGE miles on them. Again, if they were that crappy they'd be in junkyards, not running up and down the road.

davidj
02-23-2011, 11:12 AM
im going to go ahead and say that the 6.0 powerstroke has to be on this list! never had one, but know of 2 people that do and have had all the problems that come with them.

porphyre
02-23-2011, 11:20 AM
Not really a "worst" engine, but an engine that has specific recurring issues: the Saturn 1.9l from the 90's. Both SOHC and DOHC.

The radiators will crack on the driver's side. The oil filter is in a piss-poor place; when grease monkeys change the oil, it floods the pass side CV boot, degrades the rubber and if there's a hole, causes all sorts of problems. The early-style ECT sensors crack every 50k mi until replaced with a late model brass sensor. TPS go out pretty regularly. And the rings start getting bad in the 100-125k causing oil consumption to go up like crazy.

If you keep up with the maintenance, the things will run half-way decent for 250k mi. But if you don't break it open and re-ring @ 150k or so, you'll be putting in 1 qt/500-1000 miles until the rings just get so bad there's no compression.

Got some nice points, though. The water pump is a 15-20 minute job. If a tech were to practice and time it, I bet the serpentine belt could be changed in under a minute. Seriously. Can be done from the top and the routing is easy.

wornoutoldman
02-23-2011, 11:35 AM
There is no such thing as a bad engine. Just an oppurtunity to hone your skills and make some money. Bring me your smokey your leaking your knocking masses......:lol_hitti

wafrederick
02-23-2011, 11:37 AM
Most are trading in the Fords with the 6.0,no one wants them.The 3.3 and 3.8 in the Chrysler minivans are bulletproof with regular maintnance done.The 1988 to 1991 GM 3800s,most yards put in the scrap pile since they are hard to sell.The Chrysler 2.6 made by Mitubishi is a huge piece of crap,was put in early 1980s minivans and headgasket failures were a huge problem.LandRover engines are junk too,up to $3,500.00 for an used engine

creativecars
02-23-2011, 11:44 AM
The funny part about this thread is that for every crappy experience listed with each individual engine, somebody else can come up with examples of the very same engines that ran for 3 lifetimes with no issues.

5.7 GM Diesels, I knew a bunch of poeple that had problems with them, but also knew a ton that ran the piss out of them with no issues. I knew one guy that ran several to 200k+ in his road sales job. He bought low mileage used cars and stockpiled them.

1.6 and 1.9 Ford Escorts- alot of people had issues, alot ran them forever. We had 2 1.9 GT Escorts with well over 150,000 miles on each, never even lost a head gasket.

4.3l Chevy--It's a 350 with 2 cylinders lopped off, no reason for it to be any less reliable than a 350 or any other small block.

6.0,6.4 Powerstrokes-- For these things being such monster pieces of shit, why do I see scads of them for sale with 2-300,000 miles on them for premium prices. If they were junk they'd be stacked in piles in junkyards with 50,000miles on them.

All the various Chrysler Minivan engines-- sure is a shit load of these things out there with HUGE miles on them. Again, if they were that crappy they'd be in junkyards, not running up and down the road.

The Escort problem was mostly the cooling fan relay, they would get moisture in them, people would drive em until they were HOT and expect the fan to kick in and it wouldn’t.:scared: Hot aluminum heads don’t survive well.

Falcon67
02-23-2011, 11:52 AM
Thats whatcha call a catastrophic failure. :rocker:

Too much boost for that poor little SBF? :lol:

Stock block + A little spray, maybe a little boost - maybe just a 347 getting near 500 HP naturally aspirated - get ready to make some scrap.

IndyGarage
02-23-2011, 12:00 PM
On the water, I'm sure any boater will agree about the catastrophy that was Chrysler outboards, then later "US Marine - Force", then later "Mercury-Force".
LC.

I almost forgot about the Rotax 951 Direct Injection Sea Doo Engine.

Grenades itself in 70-100 hours so reliably that spare engine cases are non existant, and rebuilt engines are extremely expensive.

Actually this is pretty much consistent with all sea doo engines. A guy I knew who sold both new Sea Doos and Yamahas said he could count on 3x the repair revenue for every Sea Doo he sold vs a Yamaha - guess which one he pushed over the other?

383 240z
02-23-2011, 12:04 PM
I spent 10 years working on 6.7l British Bulldogs, They fit them to Rolls Royce/Bentley cars from the shadow 1 cars until the Sprirt Spur/Brooklands bodied cars. What a heap.
The engines were leakers from new and the control systems (ignition and fuel) were a nightmare, once an uneducated man had went under the bonnet to "fix" a drivability concern. Keith

dmeadow
02-23-2011, 12:09 PM
Another vote for the Jag V-12, particularly the earlier version as levered into the 80's XJS (the later Ford 6.0 version was marginally better).

The basic engine structure and design was great, it was everything that was attached to it that was prone to failure-- ignition, electrics/electronics, injection, gaskets, etc., etc. When it ran it was fantastic, particularly in the rare instances where it was placed in front of a manual transmission.

Another "furrin" candidate would be the Lotus twin-cam engines in the Jensen Healey. I mean, timing belt replacements every 15k miles??

cheap bastard
02-23-2011, 12:14 PM
The Quad4's problem was GM wouldn't spend money on a good head gasket combined with head bolts screwed into a thin deck. I have heard that Cometic will make MLS gaskets for them but someone has to put up the $ for a run first. ARP studs in a helicoiled block with a good gasket should solve the issues if the head is straight.
Most Mazda Wankel engine failures are due to low oil level or a failure of the oil metering pump. They should be considered a maintenance part. The metering pump, not the engine.
2.7 Chryslers are just plain awful as were non-roller lifter 5.7 Olds diesels.
Fiat diesels in Iveco trucks with engine brakes installed are another grenade.

LocoCoco
02-23-2011, 01:14 PM
...chryler 4.7 -chevy 305 ...- 22r toyota with a loose timing chain

:headscrat

You're saying those are some of the worst engines ever made? The 4.7 Powertech has definately proved itself to be a pretty awesome engine for both performance and reliability.

The 305 and 22r, while not powerhouses, are almost legendary for reliability.




I almost forgot about the Rotax 951 Direct Injection Sea Doo Engine.

Grenades itself in 70-100 hours so reliably that spare engine cases are non existant, and rebuilt engines are extremely expensive.

Actually this is pretty much consistent with all sea doo engines. A guy I knew who sold both new Sea Doos and Yamahas said he could count on 3x the repair revenue for every Sea Doo he sold vs a Yamaha - guess which one he pushed over the other?


Ha, yeah I forgot about the 951. I was in the PWC market a couple years ago and to sum up my research I learned that everyone agrees that the 951 was a disaster and that Yamaha and Kawi were hands-down the most overall reliable. Arctic Cat and Polaris were at the bottom and Sea-Doo right in the middle (except for the 951).

While we're picking on terrible 2-strokes I'll nominate any mid-'90s Polaris triple sled engine.



LC.

RIVERWEST AUTO
02-23-2011, 01:36 PM
How about the VW Audi 1.8T? Sludge problem from the factory.



.
acually, with proper 505.01 spec oil and proper engine warm up and cool down they work fine.
its the user who goes 3 miles flat out and shuts off car . turbo cars aren't for ignorant consumers. i tell people all the time they should buy a honda civic next time.

RIVERWEST AUTO
02-23-2011, 01:40 PM
i vote quad 4. JUNK

RIVERWEST AUTO
02-23-2011, 01:42 PM
how about 1999 subaru 2.5 dohc - talk about problems

s_morrison57
02-23-2011, 02:01 PM
5 HP Briggs and Scrapiron, pos, throw them out after a couple of hundred hours

burleymike
02-23-2011, 02:31 PM
Not really a "worst" engine, but an engine that has specific recurring issues: the Saturn 1.9l from the 90's. Both SOHC and DOHC.

The radiators will crack on the driver's side. The oil filter is in a piss-poor place; when grease monkeys change the oil, it floods the pass side CV boot, degrades the rubber and if there's a hole, causes all sorts of problems. The early-style ECT sensors crack every 50k mi until replaced with a late model brass sensor. TPS go out pretty regularly. And the rings start getting bad in the 100-125k causing oil consumption to go up like crazy.

If you keep up with the maintenance, the things will run half-way decent for 250k mi. But if you don't break it open and re-ring @ 150k or so, you'll be putting in 1 qt/500-1000 miles until the rings just get so bad there's no compression.

Got some nice points, though. The water pump is a 15-20 minute job. If a tech were to practice and time it, I bet the serpentine belt could be changed in under a minute. Seriously. Can be done from the top and the routing is easy.

I had 150k on my last Saturn and it would burn a few ounces of oil between changes. The CKP like the ECT would leave you stranded with little or no warning.

Moose-LandTran
02-23-2011, 02:38 PM
Rover K-Series! Over-complicated badly designed pile of shit! We have a Freelander with one that comes into work, i think it's on its 3rd headgasket.

How about the VW Audi 1.8T? Sludge problem from the factory.

Only on certain ones found in A4s and Passats. As Riverwest said, if looked after they're largely trouble-free.

how about 1999 subaru 2.5 dohc - talk about problems

They're fun to do timing belts and headgaskets on! Did one a few weeks ago, surprisingly much better to work on than i expected!

hifi_hokie
02-23-2011, 02:41 PM
An absolute turd!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/2682694289_cedd585bf9.jpg?v=0
(photo not mine, google image search)

It's like a Jackson Pollack piece...

clutch93
02-23-2011, 03:28 PM
[QUOTE=tdkkart;1367046]The funny part about this thread is that for every crappy experience listed with each individual engine, somebody else can come up with examples of the very same engines that ran for 3 lifetimes with no issues.QUOTE]

HAHA, it's true, I have all kinds of complaints about 3.0 v6 ford ranger engines, but others have said theirs were reliable for years. My dad owned an 03' and at 65,000 miles the heads had to be rebuilt, outside of warranty with burned exhaust valves? at 96,000 the motor scattered, broken rods, cracked block, the works. wasn't low on oil, wasn't hot, wasn't abused, just blew up driving up the grapevine in so cal. Guess it couldn't handle the hill. HA

I can't speak for the 2.8 in the Jeep, but my Sonoma has a 2.8. It's a 93 so it's after they went to the larger crank journals, but I just turned over 308,000 miles, original engine. Yea i've replaced some leaky gaskets, but the actual engine has never been overhauled. It's been the most reliable vehicle i've owned.

I will agree that sometimes engineers obviously didn't care about having to work on/repair the engines they designed or the way they attached the accessories/smog equipment etc. They just wanted it to fit under the hood. This can be a MAJOR pain for a technician.

I absolutely hated working on VW's, Audi's and most mercedes because of this. Not enough room in the engine compartment and way too much plastic garbage that crumbles in your hands when you remove it to get to something else. Ok, done ranting. :bounce:

clutch93
02-23-2011, 03:34 PM
Not really a "worst" engine, but an engine that has specific recurring issues: the Saturn 1.9l from the 90's. Both SOHC and DOHC.

The radiators will crack on the driver's side. The oil filter is in a piss-poor place; when grease monkeys change the oil, it floods the pass side CV boot, degrades the rubber and if there's a hole, causes all sorts of problems. The early-style ECT sensors crack every 50k mi until replaced with a late model brass sensor. TPS go out pretty regularly. And the rings start getting bad in the 100-125k causing oil consumption to go up like crazy.

If you keep up with the maintenance, the things will run half-way decent for 250k mi. But if you don't break it open and re-ring @ 150k or so, you'll be putting in 1 qt/500-1000 miles until the rings just get so bad there's no compression.

Got some nice points, though. The water pump is a 15-20 minute job. If a tech were to practice and time it, I bet the serpentine belt could be changed in under a minute. Seriously. Can be done from the top and the routing is easy.

Okay, this one I do have to agree on. I made the mistake of buying one a couple years ago. We're up to 6 quarts of oil added in between oil changes. It's currently at 167,000 miles. I don't expect many more miles out of it. Such a piece! Should have never bought this car. Oh well, live and learn!:lol_hitti

T56 Impala
02-23-2011, 03:53 PM
I've seen several references to the Audi 1.8T and I assume the 2.0T is the same only punched out a bit. What is so bad about these? You need more room to work on them? I don't understand. In our A4 Cabriolet ('09) two people could stand in the engine bay with the engine. Tons of space! Also, it is, by far, one of the LEAST cluttered engine bays I have ever seen. I think they did a great job with these. As for the reliability, don't know. We had just over 21k on ours and it ran like it was new. The S4 (also an '09) burned a little oil when it was new, but it has since stopped. Not as much space, and is a little tighter but seems well laid out to me. Pretty good looking for a small V-8.

Until I read this thread I had forgotten about the GM diesel conversions. God those things were horrible!

t100
02-23-2011, 04:05 PM
Nothing will last if NOT maintained properly.

lowrider gmc
02-23-2011, 05:41 PM
the new gm 3.6l is a pice of crap.timing chains go out at 40k.the use oil and need rings.i have replaced 3 buick enclave engines that the cranks went out on the pdi drive.never saw such crap motors before.enclave/aciada worst vehicles ever made.

Kev442
02-23-2011, 05:57 PM
Based on the fact that I would run, not walk away from them: 2.7l Chrysler, Quad 4, 3.8l Ford and RWD and Gen I FWD 3.8 Buick
Engines that others run from, but I gamble with and have gotten lucky with: 2.8 & 3.1 Chevy and 3.8 Buick Gen II.

Case IH
02-23-2011, 06:21 PM
Behold the power of doritos on a stick

AHHH ROTARY ENGINE:eek:...RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol_hitti:

6brzina
02-23-2011, 07:09 PM
Cadillac 4100 V-8

Detroit 50 Series and Cummins L10 LNG fueled engines.

g0ldfing3r
02-23-2011, 07:40 PM
Mitsubishi V6 found in 2000 Galants and Montero Sport. The intake manifold is covering the three spark plugs on the rear bank. So you have remove the intake manifold to replace the spark plugs and spark plug wires.

Moose-LandTran
02-23-2011, 07:57 PM
I've seen several references to the Audi 1.8T and I assume the 2.0T is the same only punched out a bit. What is so bad about these? You need more room to work on them? I don't understand. In our A4 Cabriolet ('09) two people could stand in the engine bay with the engine. Tons of space! Also, it is, by far, one of the LEAST cluttered engine bays I have ever seen. I think they did a great job with these. As for the reliability, don't know. We had just over 21k on ours and it ran like it was new. The S4 (also an '09) burned a little oil when it was new, but it has since stopped. Not as much space, and is a little tighter but seems well laid out to me. Pretty good looking for a small V-8

The 1.8T 20v and the 2.0T are completely different engines. The 2.0T is an FSI (Direct injection) engine with a completely different block and head. The 1.8Ts are actually not nearly as bad as people make out, they're good solid reliable engines. (Both incarnations - w/pump in block and w/pump out block.) The oil sludge problem wasn't that common and was down to poor maintenance and care.

ratdoggy
02-23-2011, 07:59 PM
Not the worst engine, but the worst engine to work on while it's inside the car.
Audi 2.7T. (V6 twinturbo) This was just to replace cam seals.
http://sheepshagger.smugmug.com/Cars/Misc/IMGP0736/1070021736_iYhUF-L.jpg

But the wife's Audi allroad station wagon now has a lot bigger turbos,:thumbup: but you need to pull the whole engine / trans and suspension subsystem to do that.:mad:

How long does THAT take?

john300k
02-23-2011, 08:10 PM
I see a few mentioned the Cadillac HT4100, we use to call them the Hook and Tow 4100...

Moose-LandTran
02-23-2011, 08:11 PM
Mitsubishi V6 found in 2000 Galants and Montero Sport. The intake manifold is covering the three spark plugs on the rear bank. So you have remove the intake manifold to replace the spark plugs and spark plug wires.

There's a Jaguar V6 like that, the intake manifold covers one bank so to change 3 plug you need to remove it, and all vacuum pipe and shit. :(

jay50
02-23-2011, 08:13 PM
Caddy Northstar V8: POS, you can buy caddys cheap with this pile.
ford 2.9: Cracked heads
Olds 307: POS oil burner

wawa1
02-23-2011, 08:19 PM
2011 duramax. 12 hours to change the rear egr valve. yes there are two. to change the starter you need to take off the front half of the exh and the trans crossmember.not user friendly at all.

wafrederick
02-23-2011, 08:26 PM
Yeah,the 4100 in the Cadillacs are junk.Another one with headgasket failures.A special tool made by Kent Moore is used to put in heli coils for the headbolt holes for the 4.6 Northstars.If this is not done,the headbolts will not torque up right.

stonewellmark
02-23-2011, 08:30 PM
The 1.6l ford escort engines aren't worth their weight in scrap. Would also agree on the carbed 2.8 chevy engines of the 80's.

ihredo4
02-23-2011, 08:37 PM
Funny how a person can swear at an engine while the next guy will swear by the same engine. Everyone seems to like the SBC yet I have had miserable luck with the damned things. I have had so much trouble that I will no longer work with or on the dang things.

Others have said how bad the 6.0 diesels are. Yes they have had their problems in the Ford trucks. Take a look at the 6.0s that are in the IHC trucks. They have no problems compared to the Ford. Its the same engine...Why is that? I believe it is the Ford fuel management system nit the engine itself.

I also hope you are wrong about the Jag v-12s. That is what I am putting into my street rod.

lowrider gmc
02-23-2011, 08:41 PM
2011 duramax. 12 hours to change the rear egr valve. yes there are two. to change the starter you need to take off the front half of the exh and the trans crossmember.not user friendly at all.

not mention frozen def fluid.

PaulsGarage
02-23-2011, 08:52 PM
Rover K-Series! Over-complicated badly designed pile of shit! We have a Freelander with one that comes into work, i think it's on its 3rd headgasket.


While I still stand by my previous Jag v12 condemnation I must wholeheartedly agree that the Freelander engine is one of the worst things ever built anywhere at anytime. I feel bad for anyone who owns one, a modern power-plant that can be expected to fail reliably at 30K increments, shameful! :dunno:

REAL HOT SCHITT
02-23-2011, 08:57 PM
Hi to uooose all from new zealand.

Have i got a gem for uoooose!.

Google and look up on youtube the most toxic car of all time from russia with love.

The prestige name is of this mity fine automobile is...... " trabant" aka; trabby....the thing is made to run with almost tri-angle bearings.

If u had a trabant? This is the girl magnet guaranteed.

We in new zealand created a "schittheap" called a "trekka" phuck! Im so embarrased

no wonder the ruskies go to england etc and steal mercs and jags etc for their local market!.

Jj

Infidel
02-23-2011, 09:04 PM
This one.
When they first came out here, a buddy had one for a minute:lol_hitti
http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/hofferwood/air%20compressor/220px-Wankel_Cycle_anim_en.gif
Chuck

Spinin Triangles Yo!

Seriously though I find the main failure of rotaries is lack of maintenance, and just stupidity overall. I do think they are easy to work on, In fact I just pulled the engine out of my 88 Turbo 2. It had 168k on the dash. Again due to stupidy and neglect of the previous owner it needs a rebuild, well not technically, but i feel safer and want to do some porting. Ls1 T56 combo is going in the 88 and the Turbo Rotary Engine is being rebuilt and going into the 79 Rx7.

I've always considered Rotaries a high performance engine.

1979 Rx7 approx 100hp in 1.2l = 83hp per Liter
88 Turbo approx 180hp in 1.3l= 138hp per Liter
400+ hp is easily achievable. = 307hp per liter

Ls1 approx 350hp 5.7l= 61 hp per liter

to mach the efficiency per liter of a 400hp rotary I would have to generate 1749 hp in 5.7. lol.

wawa1
02-23-2011, 09:07 PM
frozen def fluid programming upgrade requires thawing the fluid then removing the tank then draining the tank. reinstall tank empty then program once. let sit for five minutes then start for a minute. shut off let sit for five minutes. fill tank with def fluid. reprogram second time. let sit. start unit. road test. took three hours the first time i did one. major pita factor:mad:

Chadro
02-23-2011, 09:09 PM
Others have said how bad the 6.0 diesels are. Yes they have had their problems in the Ford trucks. Take a look at the 6.0s that are in the IHC trucks. They have no problems compared to the Ford. Its the same engine...Why is that? I believe it is the Ford fuel management system nit the engine itself.



I'm guessing your talking about the VT365 or whatever the hell International calls it, we'll call it the school bus motor.

Anyways, your 100% right. The 2 are almost identical and the commercial version is 10X more reliable. My guess is all the emissions BS and fuel mileage standards that were placed on the 6.0 by Ford turned it into a steaming pile.

5-0stank
02-23-2011, 09:13 PM
Spinin Triangles Yo!

Seriously though I find the main failure of rotaries is lack of maintenance, and just stupidity overall. I do think they are easy to work on, In fact I just pulled the engine out of my 88 Turbo 2. It had 168k on the dash. Again due to stupidy and neglect of the previous owner it needs a rebuild, well not technically, but i feel safer and want to do some porting. Ls1 T56 combo is going in the 88 and the Turbo Rotary Engine is being rebuilt and going into the 79 Rx7.

I've always considered Rotaries a high performance engine.

1979 Rx7 approx 100hp in 1.2l = 83hp per Liter
88 Turbo approx 180hp in 1.3l= 138hp per Liter
400+ hp is easily achievable. = 307hp per liter

Ls1 approx 350hp 5.7l= 61 hp per liter

to mach the efficiency per liter of a 400hp rotary I would have to generate 1749 hp in 5.7. lol.

I'll take the ls1 anyday thank you.

IndyGarage
02-23-2011, 09:13 PM
I was in West Germany in June of 1991, when the wall between East Germany and West Germany was opened (about a year after the Berlin wall was torn down).

We had been hearing that it might happen for a few days. We were near the border town of Fulda, and one day we were in the local Hardware store and all the sudden all these Trabbys were coming in, and we knew the border was opened.

We drove up to the border, and sure enough the fence was knocked down and brand new asphalt pavement connected the east and west. On a pretty regular basis, the Trabbys would carry family after family over the border - the two stroke sound and stream of blue smoke made them unmistakeable.

The next day they started airing public announcements on TV and radio to be extra-vigilant on the Autobahn, as several Trabbys had been flattened while traveling there, because their maximum speed was something like 60KPH.

hot rod reverend
02-23-2011, 09:17 PM
That would be the Mercury-Lincoln-Edsel version of the Ford Y-Block...and the Y-block would be my vote for one of the worst engine series.

Yeah, Y blocks are no good, just ask Karol Miller, Ted Eaton, Curtis Turner, Tim McMaster, John Feistritzer, Smokey Yunick, Holman and Moody, Charlie Burns, Mario Andretti (yep, got the photos to prove he ran a Y block in a race car, and did quite well when the car ran a Y block) and a host of other race car drivers from the past and present.

:lol_hitti

sheep shagger
02-23-2011, 09:18 PM
I'm guessing your talking about the VT365 or whatever the hell International calls it, we'll call it the school bus motor.

Anyways, your 100% right. The 2 are almost identical and the commercial version is 10X more reliable. My guess is all the emissions BS and fuel mileage standards that were placed on the 6.0 by Ford turned it into a steaming pile.

HP on the Ford truck is ~90 more, torque is more as well. The Ford Vans with the same 6.0 but lower tune like International seem to be more reliable.
The coolant that Ford uses seems to clog up the EGR cooler as well, so seems to be a combination of a few things, Ford messed up.

sheep shagger
02-23-2011, 09:21 PM
How long does THAT take?

Had to do it twice now:bounce: 1st time was a full weekend, but I had to also pull the cams and spent some time working out how/best way to remove everything. 2nd time I was done in a day.

CoreyVanDine
02-23-2011, 09:26 PM
I'd say the 400 sbc or the awful 2.7 Chrysler sludge factory.

wafrederick
02-23-2011, 09:39 PM
The Chrysler 2.7,synthetic oil is highly recomended due to sludge build up.The 400 sbc block is available aftermarket which is much stronger than the factory block,Dart makes it and most oval track and drag racers grab for the aftermarket block.

nonhog
02-23-2011, 09:46 PM
PVR engine that was used in many Volvo's. Head gasket blowing pile of doo doo.

bgott
02-23-2011, 11:44 PM
Yeah, Y blocks are no good, just ask Karol Miller, Ted Eaton, Curtis Turner, Tim McMaster, John Feistritzer, Smokey Yunick, Holman and Moody, Charlie Burns, Mario Andretti (yep, got the photos to prove he ran a Y block in a race car, and did quite well when the car ran a Y block) and a host of other race car drivers from the past and present.

Remember the top-end oiling kits parts houses used to sell for the Y-blocks so you could get oil to the rocker shafts after the cam bearings spun? :)

Audi might have improved their quality in the last few years. I remember when they were worth less wholesale than an HT 4100 Cadillac.

mtkst19
02-24-2011, 12:34 AM
How long does THAT take?



book time is 6.3 hours to change waterpump. figure in the over lap for belt work and safe to say 7 hrs is a belt/pump/t-stat job. add on time for the cam seals/valve cover/chain tensioners and aux water pump would inflate this time. Considering overlap, you could still easily ask 10 hours for labor and not be unreasonable.

Now if you work on them every day, you can easily do all the above work in 6 hours or less.



my suck engine list--

freelanders. piss poor design over all.

saab 2.3 turbo. oil sludge champion!

vw 2.0t specifically engine code bpy. they either kill cams, or people neglect oil changes and next thing you know the roller rocker is through the head and you have an oil fire. i am running into the cam to cam timing chains breaking now too on 2.0's, but they were ccta code engines.

vw 1.8t engine that oil is not changed every 3k miles. Seriously screw synthetic on this engine. run traditional oil and at 3k intervals religiously change it and you will never hear your chain tensioner.

dont tell to many people this as i dont want my lot filled up with them but jaguar v12's i kinda enjoy working on. they are not the easiest as you have to have more finesse that normal. and no matter how i rack the car the long/wide front end makes my back sore. but they are simple to work on. just not traditionally put together. do a tune up or change the v-belts and see what i mean. throw out "normal" when you work on these.

hardest part about working on a jag is the owner. as they are generally a person whom you need to hold their hand throughout the entire work procedure. they want daily updates and will talk your ear off about british cars. although older mg and triumph owners may have them beat?

OKCMoparGuy
02-24-2011, 12:35 AM
With regard to Chrysler 2.7L's I haven't seen many sludged that weren't originally owned by rental fleets. They frequently come into our shop with 150,000+ miles and still going strong.

GM 3.8's don't deserve to be listed on this thread either. Some of the SC'd versions had issues but the NA versions go forever.

When our used car dept takes a 6.0L Ford on trade everyone cringes. Seems like the problematic 6.0L's always have a stove pipe exhaust and performance chip sticker though.

My vote goes to Cadillac's 4.1L (HT4100).

comedtech63
02-24-2011, 02:01 AM
the worst diesel engines i have worked on, are ford powerstroke 6.0 and 6.4
they are prone of having injector ,turbo, high pressure oil leaks ,bad fuel injector modules ,blown head gaskets and coolant leaks just to mention a few
and they are a bear to work on.

Stick
02-24-2011, 02:35 AM
how about 1999 subaru 2.5 dohc - talk about problems

Oh please, those motors (or really, most any subaru motor) are tons of fun to work on. I can bang out a timing belt change on one of those in about an hour, or about 45 minutes on a SOHC. Last 2.5 DOHC motor I pulled for headgaskets was less than two hours from pulling it in to having the motor on the engine stand, and getting started on the teardown.

snorky18
02-24-2011, 07:24 AM
how about 1999 subaru 2.5 dohc - talk about problems

My 2000 Subaru 2.5L SOHC engine is coming out tomorrow for a new head gasket, which sucks,

OTOH, 185K miles with no major repairs is nothing to scoff at. 2003 or 2004 and later model 2.5L motors have little to no head gasket probs.

saabman
02-24-2011, 07:41 AM
saab 2.3 turbo. oil sludge champion!

Took six tries but PCV fix 6 did correct the sludge problem. I have one of these engines and I drop the pan everry 20,000 miles because of the rep they have. No sludge.

Addrock
02-24-2011, 07:55 AM
I had a mid 90's Dodge Intrepid that the Impossibly badly designed engine was matched by an equally terrible transmission. The engine was so terrible the price of used was almost as high as new (if you could find one). Got rid of it for $1, best sale EVER.

tdkkart
02-24-2011, 08:30 AM
Anyone remember how incredibly crappy SBC were in the mid-late 70's??
My father and the shop that he worked for made a pretty good living changing cracked heads and flat camshafts, primarily in pickups and blazers with 350s and 400s.

theoldwizard1
02-24-2011, 10:03 AM
Worst I've had first hand experience with as far as a car goes has got to be the Ford 3.8L. Holy head gaskets Batman.
Yep. I'll bet not one of them went over 100K without replacing the head gaskets. Other serious problems with intake gasket leaks. The supercharged version had to have the boost turned way down to keep the gaskets from popping under warranty !

I had a friend who used to work at a Ford dealer. He made good $$$ swapping head gaskets. What really pissed of folks was when the main/rod bearing let go 6-12 months later because they had been driving around with the head gaskets leaking for a long time before the engine finally hydro-locked on a startup. :wtf:

Worse, this engine was often couple to Ford's worst transmission ever AX4S/AX4N/4F50N. :shocking:

Interesting story about the 3.8L. Some stock car organization (not NASCAR) tried to get V6 engines to become their "standard". Ford actually built a couple of 3.8L for this series, but they were very unique. They actually had an addition head bolt/stud for the block/head to improve clamping.

IH82BL8
02-24-2011, 10:32 AM
I had a 1981 Jeep CJ5 with (I think) a Pontiac 4-cyl. It did things like shattering rotor button, and shearing fiber cam gear. I've never heard of those things happening to anyone else. It's also the only engine I've ever owned that actually self-distructed. By the time that happened I was so sick of it that I sold it "as is". Never found out what caused it to blow--I refused to even open the hood again.

Chadro
02-24-2011, 10:42 AM
the worst diesel engines i have worked on, are ford powerstroke 6.0 and 6.4
they are prone of having injector ,turbo, high pressure oil leaks ,bad fuel injector modules ,blown head gaskets and coolant leaks just to mention a few
and they are a bear to work on.

Heres a little time lapsed video of a head gasket job on a 6.0. It's an Excursion so it's cab on, what a headache.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMOs0mxxFkw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

TangoFoxTrot
02-24-2011, 12:16 PM
The Cadillac Northstars were really bad about blowing head gaskets, I think they redesigned them in 2002 with longer bolts. The car has to come off the engine to replace the head gasket, and they nearly all fail.

I almost bought one until I found this out, that's why they're so cheap.

dmeadow
02-24-2011, 01:04 PM
Anyone remember how incredibly crappy SBC were in the mid-late 70's??
My father and the shop that he worked for made a pretty good living changing cracked heads and flat camshafts, primarily in pickups and blazers with 350s and 400s.

Oh yeah! My first car was a '69 Impala with a 327 (this is in '76, my sr. yr. in high school). First time I ever did anything inside an engine was to take out the camshaft because the two front lobes were flattened.

I hated that car. Every time I tried to go somewhere with it something would go wrong with it. Next year I sold it and bought a '67 VW Beetle and that lasted me through college with no problems. Would have kept it longer, but had to sell it to finance a backpacking trip through Europe...

hetkind
02-24-2011, 01:27 PM
Remember the top-end oiling kits parts houses used to sell for the Y-blocks so you could get oil to the rocker shafts after the cam bearings spun? :)

Audi might have improved their quality in the last few years. I remember when they were worth less wholesale than an HT 4100 Cadillac.

Now, why did Ford use those MUSHROOM lifters on the Y blocks? To replace a lifter you had to remove the engine, put is upside down on a stand, and remove the camshaft.

However, a friend of mine still runs one in his classic Thunderbird.

comedtech63
02-24-2011, 02:12 PM
My vote for the worst diesel motor has to be the ford powerstroke 6.0 and 6.4
just to mention some of the cronic problems ; fuel injectors going bad ,egr system,bolwn head gaskets,coolant leaks ,high pressure oil leaks and so on::::
And a real bear to work on , I mean the easiest way to replace motor is by lifting the body
[give me a break] they are a real STROKE

Moose-LandTran
02-24-2011, 03:21 PM
Oh please, those motors (or really, most any subaru motor) are tons of fun to work on. I can bang out a timing belt change on one of those in about an hour, or about 45 minutes on a SOHC. Last 2.5 DOHC motor I pulled for headgaskets was less than two hours from pulling it in to having the motor on the engine stand, and getting started on the teardown.

My 2000 Subaru 2.5L SOHC engine is coming out tomorrow for a new head gasket, which sucks,

OTOH, 185K miles with no major repairs is nothing to scoff at. 2003 or 2004 and later model 2.5L motors have little to no head gasket probs.

I've done the headgaskets without pulling the engine, really not that bad.

Mavawreck
02-24-2011, 03:31 PM
6.0 Powerstrokes and AMC V8s

snorky18
02-24-2011, 03:37 PM
I've done the headgaskets without pulling the engine, really not that bad.

I've read about doing it that way, but just the idea of spending that much time with my body contorted up under/over a car makes my back hurt.

I'm going to do the timing belt at the same time too.

Stick
02-24-2011, 04:29 PM
I've done the headgaskets without pulling the engine, really not that bad.

Yeah, but by the time you get most of the stuff out of the way to do them in the car, you can have the whole motor out in 20 minutes more. Worth it, especially for being able to stand upright at the end of the day.

Jaguar Fan
02-24-2011, 04:44 PM
I've worked on many different kinds of cars and engines and I must say the worst both in design and to repair is hands-down no-questions-asked the Jaguar 12 cyl in the XJS. Never before has so much displacement made so little power nor leaked so many vital fluids. The design is archaic and dates back to the 70's E-types and they just kept adding emissions and fuel injection garbage to it. Even a simple repair will require hours of pain and suffering, and it will still leak anyway.

An absolute turd!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/2682694289_cedd585bf9.jpg?v=0
(photo not mine, google image search)

I started reading at the beginning of this thread, wondering if anyone would mention the XJS Jaguar V12.

I agree wholeheartedly!

fordbroncodave
02-24-2011, 05:14 PM
cadillac northstar 2000+ head gasket repair job.

all 3.1, 3.4, 3.8 GM engines just poor build quality. design is good but the quality is poor.

i am a ford guy but the 97-200ish f150's with the triton engine is crap. spark plugs blow out and overall just too damn hard to service parts.

have i ever mentioned how poorly GM can make an alternator with a regulator?

mtkst19
02-24-2011, 05:30 PM
for the guys doing subaru headgaskets-- just wondering what you use for headgaskets and thermostats? i have never had any luck w/ aftermarket gaskets or t-stats. i always buy oem now for those items.

I have had my ass bitten more than once when a t-stat stuck and blew out the plastic endtanks on the rad or the headgasket. My friends were always bringing me their subarus to do and would supply parts. After two failures w/ both, i dont use aftermarket on them anymore. straight oem on headgaskets and t-stat. the rollers/tensioners/ all other stuff ill pick up aftermarket.

oh, i pull the engine to do gaskets. can do it in the car but i like being able to work freely. also, even if only one head is popped, they get them both.

NUTTSGT
02-24-2011, 06:12 PM
Stock block + A little spray, maybe a little boost - maybe just a 347 getting near 500 HP naturally aspirated - get ready to make some scrap.

306 with a 150 shot. I guess I could share the thread I made elsewhere. Give me a little bit and I'll get some more up in my own thread. :willy_nil



For those interested.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92945

Moose-LandTran
02-24-2011, 07:16 PM
I've read about doing it that way, but just the idea of spending that much time with my body contorted up under/over a car makes my back hurt.

I'm going to do the timing belt at the same time too.

When you do the belt, release the hydraulic tensioner then turn it over twice to check the timing, i found without the tensioner released the belt skipped when checking and i had to start again. :(

Also, fit the belt with the toothed guide removed (to give you some slack), then put that in last, it's the easiest one to do. I had to Helicoil the bracket for the tensioner where someone had previously changed the belt and forced the tensioner/bolt in, stripping the threads. :(

Yeah, but by the time you get most of the stuff out of the way to do them in the car, you can have the whole motor out in 20 minutes more. Worth it, especially for being able to stand upright at the end of the day.

It was done at home, no engine hoist/stand. 6 and a half hours to strip down with no air tools! It does suck that you need to remove the cams to access the headbolts.

Moose-LandTran
02-24-2011, 07:18 PM
for the guys doing subaru headgaskets-- just wondering what you use for headgaskets and thermostats? i have never had any luck w/ aftermarket gaskets or t-stats. i always buy oem now for those items.

I have had my ass bitten more than once when a t-stat stuck and blew out the plastic endtanks on the rad or the headgasket. My friends were always bringing me their subarus to do and would supply parts. After two failures w/ both, i dont use aftermarket on them anymore. straight oem on headgaskets and t-stat. the rollers/tensioners/ all other stuff ill pick up aftermarket.

oh, i pull the engine to do gaskets. can do it in the car but i like being able to work freely. also, even if only one head is popped, they get them both.

Aftermarket, since finding a dealer here was nigh on impossible, and the one "dealer" i could get through to didn't have a parts dept.

Displaced Hokie
02-24-2011, 08:06 PM
2.7 dodge takes the cake, total crapola

Funny, my cousin and uncles both ran them to 300,000+ miles...really. Of course, they changed the oil every 3,000 mi. Wal-Mart oil and filter too.

When I was on the Dodge Magnum forums, no one ever had issues with the 2.7.

jay50
02-24-2011, 08:09 PM
Funny, my cousin and uncles both ran them to 300,000+ miles...really. Of course, they changed the oil every 3,000 mi. Wal-Mart oil and filter too.

When I was on the Dodge Magnum forums, no one ever had issues with the 2.7.

I've noticed a trend with the slugging in the 2.7s.

The cheaper car platform seemed to have the most slugging whereas the nicer, pricer platform with the 2.7 I rarely saw the problem....:dunno:

Might have something to do with those with more $s change the oil more frequently....:dunno:

poprockcrusher
02-24-2011, 08:45 PM
yep , ford does no wrong LOL

markzrt1
02-24-2011, 08:47 PM
Nissan 3.0 v6. 1994ish. Vacuum hose nightmare, gutless.

Stick
02-24-2011, 09:43 PM
for the guys doing subaru headgaskets-- just wondering what you use for headgaskets and thermostats? i have never had any luck w/ aftermarket gaskets or t-stats. i always buy oem now for those items.

OE if I can get them, though I did a set for a buddy with no cash that were NAPA gaskets. We even re-used the headbolts on that one, and it's got 30k+ since we dropped it back in without any problems.

I won't go aftermarket for timing belts on them though, pullies and the like are fine aftermarket, but I've had quite a few aftermarket belts that were half a tooth off on install.

Also when doing the DOHC motors, the trick is to use those black binder clips to hold the belt in place on the gears when routing it.

Cobra5150
02-24-2011, 10:04 PM
I've worked on many different kinds of cars and engines and I must say the worst both in design and to repair is hands-down no-questions-asked the Jaguar 12 cyl in the XJS. Never before has so much displacement made so little power nor leaked so many vital fluids. The design is archaic and dates back to the 70's E-types and they just kept adding emissions and fuel injection garbage to it. Even a simple repair will require hours of pain and suffering, and it will still leak anyway.

An absolute turd!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/2682694289_cedd585bf9.jpg?v=0
(photo not mine, google image search)

But it's such an elegant design.

poprockcrusher
02-24-2011, 11:46 PM
a pretty face

mtkst19
02-25-2011, 12:22 AM
OE if I can get them, though I did a set for a buddy with no cash that were NAPA gaskets. We even re-used the headbolts on that one, and it's got 30k+ since we dropped it back in without any problems.

I won't go aftermarket for timing belts on them though, pullies and the like are fine aftermarket, but I've had quite a few aftermarket belts that were half a tooth off on install.

Also when doing the DOHC motors, the trick is to use those black binder clips to hold the belt in place on the gears when routing it.


coming from german stuff, the lines/dots on the belts bug me. i dont trust them. confrimed that by having a toyota v6 where a line was off a tooth. i figured it out and just made my own lines. but made me wonder wtf.

also-- those black clips are good for holding the fender cover on a car. i use cloth fender covers and those clips work well to grab the fender lips.

FLACOMAN
02-25-2011, 06:50 AM
[QUOTE=mtkst19;1369888]for the guys doing subaru headgaskets-- just wondering what you use for headgaskets and thermostats? i have never had any luck w/ aftermarket gaskets or t-stats. i always buy oem now for those items.

Most of the turbo Subies around here use Cometic headgaskets.
Seem to hold up to at least 20+ PSI

banzaitoyota
02-25-2011, 07:06 AM
Ive owed 5 rotary engine cars and outside of being Gas Hungry and Requiring Oil Checkage in between oil changes, I never had any mechanical issues. The Twin Turbo engines where hard on Apex seals but the feeling you get from those motors at +9K is unbelieveable. My latest was a 05 RX8 and outside of being a dog at -5K (Note to Mazda... Need Factory turbo setup) it was one of the best handling cars ive ever owned. Im currently looking for a RX2 for a Project...:thumbup:

I too have a multitude of rotaries. My current RX2 is mechanically great just dealing with 37 year old disposable japanese sheetmetal

Wrenchette
02-26-2011, 02:52 AM
My GM 3.4 DOHC leaks like a sieve.....but it goes like a scalded dog. Just waiting for it to grenade.

What is it in if I may ask?

It wasn't TOO bad...An hour for LIM gaskets.

But yes, they do leak and leak oil BADLY. You have to remove the rear head to replace the oil pump drive o-ring. I got creative with mine and was able to replace it without doing all that.

Replacing the alternator though, PASS! O M G!

As with yours, it will haul a 4000 lb. Cutlass convertible pretty quickly!

Displaced Hokie
02-26-2011, 05:55 AM
One thing I've noticed, regardless of whether it's cars or other equipment, the lower cost models often end up in the hands of folks that take poorer care of them. I.E., they buy all they can afford, but cannot afford to service them properly. This is especially true once they hit the used market. I think this skews things a bit. Think Ford Escort for example.

wafrederick
02-26-2011, 07:48 AM
Even the 5.4 Fords,known for headgasket failures and about $2,500.00.If anyone is looking for the cam tools for the GM DOHC 3.4,my father has them them for sale brand new in the box and never used.The 2000 and up 4.0s do have cylinder head problems,were not casted right.

aussiek2000
05-15-2012, 08:38 PM
Bumping this thread. Curious if anyone has any engines to add.

Mavawreck
05-15-2012, 08:42 PM
AMC 360, maybe not the worst but completely void redeeming qualities

NJHandyGuy
05-15-2012, 08:44 PM
dodge stratus/intrepid 3. anythings ARRRRGH

odelay01
05-15-2012, 08:50 PM
6.0,6.4 Powerstrokes-- For these things being such monster pieces of shit, why do I see scads of them for sale with 2-300,000 miles on them for premium prices. If they were junk they'd be stacked in piles in junkyards with 50,000miles on them.

The reason people want so much for used 6.0s and 6.4s is they are trying to recoup some of the money they have spent on repairs!:scared:

Cubby
05-15-2012, 08:55 PM
My 2000 Subaru 2.5L SOHC engine is coming out tomorrow for a new head gasket, which sucks,

OTOH, 185K miles with no major repairs is nothing to scoff at. 2003 or 2004 and later model 2.5L motors have little to no head gasket probs.

I'm due for my second head gasket in my 01 Forster with the 2.5. First one was replaced at 140,000 kms and now at 240,000 kms its leaking again. Great engine except for the head gasket issue.

86k10
05-15-2012, 09:13 PM
Funny how a person can swear at an engine while the next guy will swear by the same engine. Everyone seems to like the SBC yet I have had miserable luck with the damned things. I have had so much trouble that I will no longer work with or on the dang things.

Others have said how bad the 6.0 diesels are. Yes they have had their problems in the Ford trucks. Take a look at the 6.0s that are in the IHC trucks. They have no problems compared to the Ford. Its the same engine...Why is that? I believe it is the Ford fuel management system nit the engine itself.

I also hope you are wrong about the Jag v-12s. That is what I am putting into my street rod.

We run the vt365/6.0 in our IHC 4200 and the engines are ok mechanicly but still have driveability issues. When we ran the 444/7.3 in both 4700 and the Ford E-450 we had a lot more issues with the fords than the internationals. I think it is more of a ford thing.

86k10
05-15-2012, 09:24 PM
C7 Cat is just awful. It is rare to get 100-120K before getting heavy blow by. I am told that they changed ring suppliers and that they broke fairly quick. A major down grade from a 3126 it replaced. And you can't in frame them because they are a no sleeve engine and need machined with a sleeve due to broken ring damaging the cylinder beyond honing.

dlenkewich
05-15-2012, 09:56 PM
6.0,6.4 Powerstrokes-- For these things being such monster pieces of shit, why do I see scads of them for sale with 2-300,000 miles on them for premium prices. If they were junk they'd be stacked in piles in junkyards with 50,000miles on them.

The reason people want so much for used 6.0s and 6.4s is they are trying to recoup some of the money they have spent on repairs!:scared:

I posted up when this thread was made, about my problem free 6.4L.

80,000kms now, still no problems, again, knock on wood!

bgott
05-15-2012, 10:03 PM
I've seen a bunch of late build 5.7 GM diesels that were suprizingly good running engines. The early engines were crappy and you also had to factor in the fact that most gas engine mechanics had never worked on diesels before. The same thing with the 4-6-8 Cadillacs.That system worked smooth when it was working right. Another one that was actually a decent engine in the last year or two of it's life is the Vega engine. Once they dumped the aluminum cylinder walls and went to liners they could keep it from burning oil. The cars didn't rust out in California like they did back east so they actually lasted long enough to get some miles put on them. I have actually seen one with over 200,000 verifiable miles.

Gregster
05-15-2012, 10:12 PM
How long does THAT take?

I can do the timing belt on any VW Passat, Audi A4/6/8 with the 1.8T, 2.0T, 2.7T or 2.8L engine in about 3-3.5hrs. The 3.0 30V takes longer and you need special tools to lock the 4 cams in place. On the 2.8L or 2.7T you just need a single cam lock that costs about 50$ . The entire front end doesn't have to come off if you have the threaded slides.. the front end is made to slide forward. However I'm changing the WP and the tstat housing ill take off the entire front end to have less hassles.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s119/turntwomotorsports/photo63.jpg

I'm due for my second head gasket in my 01 Forster with the 2.5. First one was replaced at 140,000 kms and now at 240,000 kms its leaking again. Great engine except for the head gasket issue.
Subaru's are very picky with head gaskets. I stopped using OEM parts and went with Felpro or Cortico gaskets. These will stop the leaking. DOHCs leak internally while SOHC external. Flush the system after and use Subaru approved coolant with the coolant conditioner

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned the Porsche 2.5 and 3.0L 4cyl NA or Turbo engines found in the 944 and 968.. Or even the 5L V8 928 where the timing belt is over 7ft long.

geologist
05-15-2012, 10:47 PM
The 420a is a headgasket destroying piece of shit. It's found in:

Dodge Avenger/Chrysler Sebring (1995–1999)
Dodge Neon/Plymouth Neon (1995–1999)
Mitsubishi Eclipse/Eagle Talon (second generation, 1995–1999)

RivennHewn
05-15-2012, 10:51 PM
I'm voting for the Ford 4.2L V6 AKA: The Hydro-locker

http://www.f150forum.com/f6/please-read-troubles-ford-4-2l-v6-11362/

Jagmandave
05-15-2012, 10:51 PM
Not the worst engine, but the worst engine to work on while it's inside the car.
Audi 2.7T. (V6 twinturbo) This was just to replace cam seals.
http://sheepshagger.smugmug.com/Cars/Misc/IMGP0736/1070021736_iYhUF-L.jpg

But the wife's Audi allroad station wagon now has a lot bigger turbos,:thumbup: but you need to pull the whole engine / trans and suspension subsystem to do that.:mad:

Where are you located?

My wife has an Allroad 2.7TT also, and I know exactly what you mean!

So far I've only had to replace the front bags.....

Jagmandave
05-15-2012, 10:53 PM
MINI Coopers are pretty much just as bad, really the only way to work on them is to remove the front of the car....even to change a cooling fan!

Garage5.9
05-15-2012, 10:58 PM
http://www.samarins.com/reviews/img/2006_escape_engine.jpg

still haunts me till this day , did the heads because of a burned valve. got it running top shape. only for the crank key way to break 500 miles later. The timing chain setup is painfully retarded and tight as hell.

chris142
05-15-2012, 11:19 PM
Going by reliability only....

I had an 86 Mitsubishi pickup with the 2.6L. Bought brand new off the stealers lot. It was an oil burning fool, needed a valve job @35K due to a burned valve.

Did the valves and 6 months later the rings were junk. Had to pour oil down the carb to get the compression up so that it would start. Once running it would stay running.............For a while.

Crankshaft split @ the 3rd main cap @ 44k completly destroying the engine.

I vote the 2.6L Mitsushitty the #1 POS.

#2 would be the 4.1,4.5 and 4.9 Cadillac engines. If those were not eating the cam lobes and distributer gears they were blowing headgaskets.

#3 would be the Northstar. They don't make 80K here w/o the head bolts pulling out of the block.

As for diesels.

The Ford 6.0 as already mentioned and the C12 Cat. I worked for a company that had 100 trucks. 20 had the C12 and all 20 got returned early due to the many problems. Turbo's, headgaskets and computer problems that would kill the engine and just as you were pulling over it would start running again.

I had one leave me stranded on the east part of hwy190 in Death Valley, Ca in August........

wreckercologist
05-15-2012, 11:42 PM
Ford guy here, but I'm not fan of the newer SOHC Ford stuff. The 4.0 in my Exploder is on it's second set of chains.....but it still runs good and doesn't eat oil. It's just noisey. I keep debating on selling the cam tool kit I bought to use on it........I'll wait until I'm rid of the Explorer first.:lol:

My mom's '92 Taurus with the 3.8 went 100K no problem........after that? Couldn't keep a HG on it. Warped junk.

The old man told stories of his youth about scrap Y blocks. Spun cam bearings, exploding pistons..............the good old days.:lol:

wafrederick
05-16-2012, 07:51 AM
Ford's 2.0 sohc vin P.A huge pile of shit.This engine is in 2000 to 2004 Focuses and Escorts.Drop valve seats doing damage to the cylinder head.I have done 3 so far.The 6.7 in house built Ford diesel is on the list,problems already came out and the Jasper rep that comes in my father's shop sold 2 of these so far.Both were sold to a couple Ford dealers,blew up and Ford refused to cover them under warranty.

byoungblood
05-16-2012, 08:17 AM
Not really a "worst" engine, but an engine that has specific recurring issues: the Saturn 1.9l from the 90's. Both SOHC and DOHC.

The radiators will crack on the driver's side. The oil filter is in a piss-poor place; when grease monkeys change the oil, it floods the pass side CV boot, degrades the rubber and if there's a hole, causes all sorts of problems. The early-style ECT sensors crack every 50k mi until replaced with a late model brass sensor. TPS go out pretty regularly. And the rings start getting bad in the 100-125k causing oil consumption to go up like crazy.

If you keep up with the maintenance, the things will run half-way decent for 250k mi. But if you don't break it open and re-ring @ 150k or so, you'll be putting in 1 qt/500-1000 miles until the rings just get so bad there's no compression.

Got some nice points, though. The water pump is a 15-20 minute job. If a tech were to practice and time it, I bet the serpentine belt could be changed in under a minute. Seriously. Can be done from the top and the routing is easy.

Just had to quote this one because I had a roommate with one and I think we must have fixed everything mentioned in this post save the rings.

When I was in high school we owned one of those mid 80s Cherokees with the 2.8L and it was a POS. I pulled out to pass someone once and a few miles later the engine was ticking. Turned out it had a cracked crank. Got a short block installed, then the transmission starts giving it problems about a year later. Needed a new torque converter (splines sheared inside it!) and had the transmission rebuilt. While I was off at college, my brother put the thing out of its misery when he rear ended someone and bent the unibody beyond repair.

Cameronl
05-16-2012, 08:19 AM
Old VW engines are fun to work on, but watch out for overheating on the #3 cylinder...

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/440/30956524514841294603621.jpg
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7987/31832324307738917171322.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8650/31589424307760517711322.jpg

DRP6833
05-16-2012, 08:46 AM
I had a '77 Pontiac Sunbird with a 231 V6. This was right after the (first) oil crisis. It was a 302 V8 with two cylinders lopped off. It was uneven firing; four of the cylinders fired at 90 degrees but the distributor cap essentially had extensions in it so that the two cylinders after the two that were missing would fire sooner. The "hammering" eventually ate up the timing gears.

relic7680
05-16-2012, 09:07 AM
Most of what I've seen here comes as no surprise. I've never owned an SBC with problems; the stock 350-2 in my '76 El Camino ran great even though it was covered in filth and had 125k (no recent tune-up). The 70s 350 in my '76 Sprint that was built at least 20 years ago has seen significant flogging and held up like a champ. I have also seen 2.8L V6 carb'd engines in both RWD and FWD applications that were beat on with well over 100k that ran fine. One guy said something about the Ford 351M....my '78 truck version ran great with 135k on it, although it did have its share of oil leaks.

I've never worked on a Jag V12, but I did recently see one in a late 80s XJ ragtop at a car show that suddenly developed a significant coolant leak after pulling in. The maze of plumbing and wiring on top on that plant is something I wish to have nothing to do with.

Serviceability issues are something that bother me to no end...hence the newest vehicle I've ever had is my '91 Chevy C2500 with the good old 5.7 TBI. Late model techs have more patience than I do...

wintermute
05-16-2012, 09:19 AM
Ford guy here, but I'm not fan of the newer SOHC Ford stuff. The 4.0 in my Exploder is on it's second set of chains.....but it still runs good and doesn't eat oil. It's just noisey. I keep debating on selling the cam tool kit I bought to use on it........I'll wait until I'm rid of the Explorer first.:lol: …

How difficult are those chains to do? I'm going to need to take care of those in my Ranger at some point.

GM 60º V6 engines. Those cars should just leave the factory with a spare set of LIM gaskets in the trunk. What makes those worse than a 90º engine is the pushrods go through the LIM Gasket! At least you don't need to lock down the camshaft.

justinwm
05-16-2012, 09:59 AM
I've done two head gasket swaps on the Ford 3.8L. They eat gaskets like crazy, and I always wondered if it is because they used aluminum heads on an iron block. They also experienced dramatic power fade. Some days that engine was spot on and ran like it wanted to eat up asphalt and yet the very next day, for no discernible reason, it would run like it was drugged.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2

Kurn
05-16-2012, 11:09 AM
I'll agree the C10-C15 Cats are not very good engines.Hard to work on,regular turbo failures,a lot of regen problems,overheating,just to name a few.They are NOT the Cats of old.And don't even get me started about the 4' long dipsticks on some of 'em!

FLACOMAN
05-16-2012, 11:32 AM
Old VW engines are fun to work on, but watch out for overheating on the #3 cylinder...
IIRC ; the timing was retarded on cyl#3 on the distributor cam, talk about a band-aid!

aussiek2000
05-16-2012, 12:23 PM
How difficult are those chains to do? I'm going to need to take care of those in my Ranger at some point.

GM 60º V6 engines. Those cars should just leave the factory with a spare set of LIM gaskets in the trunk. What makes those worse than a 90º engine is the pushrods go through the LIM Gasket! At least you don't need to lock down the camshaft.

They all leak, but they're easy to fix. Good money maker.

Gregster
05-16-2012, 10:37 PM
The 420a is a headgasket destroying piece of shit. It's found in:

Dodge Avenger/Chrysler Sebring (1995–1999)
Dodge Neon/Plymouth Neon (1995–1999)
Mitsubishi Eclipse/Eagle Talon (second generation, 1995–1999)

Honestly I don't think there are any S4RE, D4RE and 420a on original head gaskets. They have all been replaced with the MLS design.However I've but enough Neon engines and the trick is to file down a few threads off the head bolts. A few bolt holes in the block aren't drilled deep enough. You can also clean up the oil passages and run a return line from the head back into the block.

My 2.0L DOHC with a 2.7L V6 valve train sees 8000RPM regularly and has no issues.

freeskier
05-16-2012, 11:11 PM
saw mention of the mini cooper engine on here. that car will turn you into a very fast tech, you tear it apart every time of everything. i race one and it comes apart more then it is in one pice but no complaints on the mill

geologist
05-16-2012, 11:21 PM
Honestly I don't think there are any S4RE, D4RE and 420a on original head gaskets. They have all been replaced with the MLS design.However I've but enough Neon engines and the trick is to file down a few threads off the head bolts. A few bolt holes in the block aren't drilled deep enough. You can also clean up the oil passages and run a return line from the head back into the block.

My 2.0L DOHC with a 2.7L V6 valve train sees 8000RPM regularly and has no issues.


I'm on car #2, gasket #3. Thanks for the tip. =)

mark40sw
05-17-2012, 12:33 AM
6.0,6.4 Powerstrokes-- For these things being such monster pieces of shit, why do I see scads of them for sale with 2-300,000 miles on them for premium prices. If they were junk they'd be stacked in piles in junkyards with 50,000miles on them.

The reason people want so much for used 6.0s and 6.4s is they are trying to recoup some of the money they have spent on repairs!:scared:

some info on the flaws and what may be done
"Getting Stoked to Service the 6.0L Power Stroke"
http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/Article/99489/getting_stoked_to_service_the_60l_power_stroke.asp x

Superlifted06FX4
05-17-2012, 12:51 AM
The Camry with the 2.2L was bulletproof. Their v6's were nice as well. I don't about the newer ones but I have a 2004 Camry with the 4cyl and she's got 120K mi on the clock.\

Edit: Worst engine I worked on has to be the 2000+ cougar v6. Awful layout.

The Olds Aurora V8 FWD too.

99+ Cougs, but it's not too bad if you're well versed. :/

geologist
05-17-2012, 01:34 AM
99+ Cougs, but it's not too bad if you're well versed. :/

I heard the head gaskets and timing belts are fun with those.

Superlifted06FX4
05-17-2012, 01:38 AM
Ford guy here, but I'm not fan of the newer SOHC Ford stuff. The 4.0 in my Exploder is on it's second set of chains.....but it still runs good and doesn't eat oil. It's just noisey. I keep debating on selling the cam tool kit I bought to use on it........I'll wait until I'm rid of the Explorer first.:lol:

My mom's '92 Taurus with the 3.8 went 100K no problem........after that? Couldn't keep a HG on it. Warped junk.

The old man told stories of his youth about scrap Y blocks. Spun cam bearings, exploding pistons..............the good old days.:lol:

The 4.0SOHC had problems till 02 I think.

Superlifted06FX4
05-17-2012, 01:40 AM
I heard the head gaskets and timing belts are fun with those.

I believe they have a chain. And I haven't heard of many issues with them.

Gregster
05-17-2012, 07:09 AM
I'm on car #2, gasket #3. Thanks for the tip. =)

Then you're doing something wrong lol. There is a new tightening sequence and torque settings. I'll see if I can dig them up. I also suggest using permatex copper gasket spray on the headgasket.

mpire
05-17-2012, 08:10 AM
I've worked on many different kinds of cars and engines and I must say the worst both in design and to repair is hands-down no-questions-asked the Jaguar 12 cyl in the XJS. Never before has so much displacement made so little power nor leaked so many vital fluids. The design is archaic and dates back to the 70's E-types and they just kept adding emissions and fuel injection garbage to it. Even a simple repair will require hours of pain and suffering, and it will still leak anyway.

An absolute turd!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3268/2682694289_cedd585bf9.jpg?v=0
(photo not mine, google image search)

I know a couple Jaguar guys and they have space V12s just in case they need something or they crap out. The manual actually says some weeping is normal. My uncle has the 3.8 XK and while it was a revolutionary motor, he stopped driving it because he couldn't keep up with the leaks. :willy_nil

Not the worst engine, but the worst engine to work on while it's inside the car.
Audi 2.7T. (V6 twinturbo) This was just to replace cam seals.
http://sheepshagger.smugmug.com/Cars/Misc/IMGP0736/1070021736_iYhUF-L.jpg

You should take a crack at the S4 V8 motors. Those things have all the timing and accessories on the BACK of the motor by the transmission. Talk about hard to work on!

http://www.asphalte.ch/LD/S4B6/3R6H3544.jpg

Here is what the timing chain/guides looks like. Its on the back, and the replacement window is around 75-100k miles. Talk about a tight fit!

http://forums.audiworld.com/picture.php?albumid=52044&pictureid=109527

MINI Coopers are pretty much just as bad, really the only way to work on them is to remove the front of the car....even to change a cooling fan!

Rumor is that the BMW M70 is a pretty terrible motor to work on. It had two of everything. To batteries, two fuel systems, two electrical systems, you name it. Granted this is the same basic block that came in the McLaren F1, so it has lots of potential, but the SOHC heads were crap.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/07/504x_BMW_M70.jpg

Oh, and my brother just bought a near mint 300ZX turbo. That thing was leaking from all over. Its easier to pull the engine and replace all the seals and turbo stuff than it is to even attempt it while still in the car.

http://www.allnissaninfinitiparts.com/new-arrivals/380x285/002754_engine2.jpg

He has been working on the R&R of this motor to make it stop leaking since January. Its taking a while!

IndyGarage
05-17-2012, 08:38 AM
I will never call it the worst engine - but I found the flaw with my Toyota Tundra 5.7 last night.

I went to change my own oil. I sucked the oil out the top of the engine - 8 quarts. I hate getting used motor oil everywhere.

Then I go to change the filter. First, I had to make a run to Wally world in the middle of the night because I bought the wrong one - my fault.

Then I had to figure out how to change it - worst oil filter change I've ever done. First you have to take the skid plate off - no they didn't give you a small access panel - you have to unbolt the whole thing and take it off. 8 bolts - 5 of which are deeply recessed.

The filter is a cartridge filter. First there is a drain plug in the filter that fits a 3/8 ratchet - no problem, except a small amount of oil runs onto your hand. Then you stick this little plastic drain gadget into the drain hole and a flood of oil spills all over your hand, down your arm and everywere else. If you push the little plastic fitting in - it locks into place and only drips all over everything for a few more seconds. Then the filter housing drains, and drains, and drains - a tiny continuous stream for over 35 minutes... Until I get too impatient to wait.

Then you gotta get the filter housing loose - with oil dripping down - It broke my strap wrench after I finally got some traction with it, because there was oil everywhere. That thing was on there way too tight... It took 45 minutes to get loose.

New filter in housing, replace the housing, replace the plug and tighten it up, no problem.

Then I fought with the stupid skid plate for an hour. You gotta line about 6 things up at once just perfectly - except they are blind alignments. Then put the 5 deeply recessed bolts in, through the bolt hole and find the threads. I put it on wrong the first time... and had to do it over.

Wow - what a job - 3 hour oil change - oil everywhere. I'm not doing that one again...

I did my daughter's Toyota (actually Lexus Es300) before the Tundra and it took exactly 20 minutes, with just a couple drips on the floor and none on my hands. The Tundra took 3 hours - probably only and hour and a half the next time - but I had used oil dripping to my elbow on both arms. and all over the floor. I smell good today...

koditten
05-17-2012, 03:46 PM
I will never call it the worst engine - but I found the flaw with my Toyota Tundra 5.7 last night.

I went to change my own oil. I sucked the oil out the top of the engine - 8 quarts. I hate getting used motor oil everywhere.

Then I go to change the filter. First, I had to make a run to Wally world in the middle of the night because I bought the wrong one - my fault.

Then I had to figure out how to change it - worst oil filter change I've ever done. First you have to take the skid plate off - no they didn't give you a small access panel - you have to unbolt the whole thing and take it off. 8 bolts - 5 of which are deeply recessed.

The filter is a cartridge filter. First there is a drain plug in the filter that fits a 3/8 ratchet - no problem, except a small amount of oil runs onto your hand. Then you stick this little plastic drain gadget into the drain hole and a flood of oil spills all over your hand, down your arm and everywere else. If you push the little plastic fitting in - it locks into place and only drips all over everything for a few more seconds. Then the filter housing drains, and drains, and drains - a tiny continuous stream for over 35 minutes... Until I get too impatient to wait.

Then you gotta get the filter housing loose - with oil dripping down - It broke my strap wrench after I finally got some traction with it, because there was oil everywhere. That thing was on there way too tight... It took 45 minutes to get loose.

New filter in housing, replace the housing, replace the plug and tighten it up, no problem.

Then I fought with the stupid skid plate for an hour. You gotta line about 6 things up at once just perfectly - except they are blind alignments. Then put the 5 deeply recessed bolts in, through the bolt hole and find the threads. I put it on wrong the first time... and had to do it over.

Wow - what a job - 3 hour oil change - oil everywhere. I'm not doing that one again...

I did my daughter's Toyota (actually Lexus Es300) before the Tundra and it took exactly 20 minutes, with just a couple drips on the floor and none on my hands. The Tundra took 3 hours - probably only and hour and a half the next time - but I had used oil dripping to my elbow on both arms. and all over the floor. I smell good today...

I hear ya Indy.

I removed my skid pan permanantly. I see no reason for one. I don't plan on using mine for that much off road anyways. As for that oil filter housing. That thing is a real big pain. Toyota offers an aluminum version of the composite unit that came original. I'm pretty sure that the composite is swelling from the contact with the oil. Did you have to take your off completely with the wrench? Mine fights me the entire way

Kind of fooled me going into the first oil change. I'm thinking the location of the filter is finally in an accessable location. The oil change still took 3x as long as it should.

As for the element filter and the cute drain pipe that come with it. Forget about it. Just unscrew the housing. Not that much oil spills down the side of the filter housing.

Later

KO

RangerDaleXp
05-17-2012, 03:49 PM
I would say the chevy vega engine......

cglasgow
05-17-2012, 05:55 PM
Haven't read the entire thread and I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I vote for the Olds 350 Diesel. When I worked at a parts store we had a catalog for reman crankshafts. Beside the part number for the Olds 350 Diesel crank, there was an asterisk -- follow it down to the bottom of the page and you found a footnote that said, "Due to the unreliable nature of this engine, we recommend that it NOT be rebuilt."

VWPORSCHEGT3
05-17-2012, 06:16 PM
Anyone remember how incredibly crappy SBC were in the mid-late 70's??
My father and the shop that he worked for made a pretty good living changing cracked heads and flat camshafts, primarily in pickups and blazers with 350s and 400s.

thats funny, my grandpa said if it wasn't for ford motor companies products he would have gone out of business the first year. his shop was extremely sucessfull and had a great reputation for honesty and charity. even though the business gave him many medical problems though his life, he enjoyed it very much.

dodge neon motors... guaranteed to blow a head gasket at 60K or your money back lol... the only other motor that bugs me incessantly is my Cherokee 4.0... not the motor but the sensors.... i think ive replaced every sensor at least twice.... im ready to push the truck off a cliff

wreckercologist
05-17-2012, 06:26 PM
The 4.0SOHC had problems till 02 I think.

Yup. Mine's an '01. Last damned time I ever buy a new/newer/newish car without checking out the reviews or message boards online. Had I done that, I'd have gone a different route.

:beer:

wafrederick
05-17-2012, 06:40 PM
Even the late 1970s Jaguar engines,pile of junk.There are kits to drop in a small block Chevy under the hood in these jaguars.One Junk yard owner in my area has one this way.The late 1970s Jaguars used GM turbo 400s,the automatic transmission.GM,the minivans are horrible to replace an engine and I hate doing these.Have to drop from the bottom still bolted to the transmission.

Gregster
05-17-2012, 07:56 PM
Even the late 1970s Jaguar engines,pile of junk.There are kits to drop in a small block Chevy under the hood in these jaguars.One Junk yard owner in my area has one this way.The late 1970s Jaguars used GM turbo 400s,the automatic transmission.GM,the minivans are horrible to replace an engine and I hate doing these.Have to drop from the bottom still bolted to the transmission.


Most larger british cars used the TH400 including Bentley and Rolls Royce

IndyGarage
05-17-2012, 07:59 PM
I hear ya Indy.

I removed my skid pan permanantly. I see no reason for one. I don't plan on using mine for that much off road anyways. As for that oil filter housing. That thing is a real big pain. Toyota offers an aluminum version of the composite unit that came original. I'm pretty sure that the composite is swelling from the contact with the oil. Did you have to take your off completely with the wrench? Mine fights me the entire way

Kind of fooled me going into the first oil change. I'm thinking the location of the filter is finally in an accessable location. The oil change still took 3x as long as it should.

As for the element filter and the cute drain pipe that come with it. Forget about it. Just unscrew the housing. Not that much oil spills down the side of the filter housing.

Later

KO

I thought about leaving the skid plate off permanently. I don't think I need it as a skid plate, but I'm pretty sure it also serves as a bottom pan for airflow under the vehicle, so you're going to lose a bit of fuel mileage if you take it off.

The filter housing was a bear to turn - actually broke my strap wrench on it, and had to fix it. But there was no good way to get leverage on the strap wrench either, so it was slow going for a couple of turns - then finally I was able to move it by hand - but it never did loosen up much.

I've not seen many worse oil filters. If they were going to use a cartridge, the least they could have done was make it accessible from the top and self draining - I don't think the filter cares if the opening is at the top or the bottom.

Sounds like they make an aftermarket housing - I think somebody needs to make and aftermarket spin-on that's in an easy to install spot.

If they send me a satisfaction survey, I'm going to blast them on it.

nisreo
05-17-2012, 08:04 PM
I don't even like doing those filters on a lift at work.

chrommagman
05-17-2012, 08:36 PM
Neons are a pain the the ass to work on!!!!

Joelfke
05-17-2012, 08:58 PM
As far as working on...

GM 3.4L DOHC motor as previously mentioned
GM 3.6L VVT motor is nothing but a load of shit and they're still putting them in almost every new car
Hyundai 3.5L timing belt blows and is a PITA to do
Any and all engine work on Express Vans or even worse a conversion van

Murphy4570
05-17-2012, 09:27 PM
I know a lot of you guys are listing the old 3.8L V6 Ford engines, but I don't mind them one bit. I have personally fixed two of them, and I don't mind the design or engineering of them at all. They are packaged rather well too, fairly easy to repair.

The fact that both of the ones that I fixed were cars that I bought and sold for a hefty profit might bias my opinion a bit, though.

Give me all the headgasket 3.8 jobs you guys get, I love that shit! :lol:

bgott
05-17-2012, 10:19 PM
Neons are a pain the the ass to work on!!!!

I'll see you a Neon and raise you a PT Cruiser!

Give me all the headgasket 3.8 jobs you guys get, I love that shit!

The first time I ever went into one of the rear wheel drive Ford 3.8s I kept swearing that I was working on a Buick 3.8. A couple of years after that I read an interview done by a Ford executive, he stated that they needed a V-6 in a hurry so they copied the Buick.

USMCdodge
05-17-2012, 10:48 PM
Neons are a pain the the ass to work on!!!!

What engine?? I have a 2002 with the 2.0 sohc and its been nothing but easy... yes the starter was a pain in the dick but every engine has a few of those. I also havn't done anything too major on it. all just routine maint. its got 120k and no big problems ever. whats the worst?

USMCdodge
05-17-2012, 10:51 PM
and ya I did breaks all around on a friends VW and it took several hours. too many specialty tools. never fun to work on a VW or audi. Im sure porsche is a pain too.

Old Donn
05-18-2012, 06:42 AM
The old Ford 3.8 V-6. Guaranteed head gasket failure. It wasn't called, (by Ford dealers & techs), the "turd 3.8" for nothing.

flht1997
05-18-2012, 08:47 AM
How is a neon hard to work on? The SOHC 2.0 is about the easiest thing to work on there is, and after they figured out the MLS head gasket the became pretty good at the hayday of neon head gaskets in and out in under 2 hours with A/C and P/S and no cracked timing covers :). The PT on the other hand those are tough.

FLACOMAN
05-18-2012, 08:52 AM
I remember a Ford employee asking Bill Ford (during a stockholder's meeting) why couldn't we have a headgasket for the 3.8 that works. This was in the middle 90's, when they bought a Dell PC for everyone in the company.

ADaughen
05-18-2012, 10:16 AM
Of all that I have owned, I have to say Chevy's 4.3 V6. They've probably sold more replacement intake gaskets for those pieces of crap than any other engine.

I've loved the two of mine. Pretty dependable. The 4.3 "Vortec" has spider injector issues. Pretty cool, early design, runs like crap when it breaks though. 210k on the one I currently have left. Had fuel tank seam rust issues so I had to park it for a while.


Ford Escort 4 cylinder - late 80's - my Mom bought one of these new, and it went through at least 4 new ECU's at about $500 a pop, and after awhile, so many of them went bad, that they couldn't get the part for weeks.


I believe that was a 2.3 or 2.4 litre cant remember for sure. I do remember working at a service station when I was just out of high school and that those escorts and tempos were the bulk of the service business. They blew control modules and timing belts like crazy.

That Ford 2.3L has been pretty much the same for years. As long as you could keep them at running temp, they were great. My '87 Probe had one (1000 miles without oil and 5k neutral drops - long story); sister's '89 Tempo and wife's '90 Topaz had them, too. Sis wrecked her car and wife's (g/f at the time) Dad bought the car as parts.


The Toyota 22R some of you guys were complaining about was great. It was an old, simple engine. Dad's '87 Truck had that motor with 230k miles on it, when I plowed it into a guardrail. Replace the distributor, radiator, and fan and she started right back up. Someone is probably still running that motor somewhere. :(

Now, I believe there were some early issues with the 22RE, fuel injected motor. But the old carb'd 22R was even featured on Top Gear as "un-killable".



The one that made me hate my high school years was the Mitsubishi 4G54 found in the '87 Dodge Caravan with the 2.6L. Between two crappy transmissions, that water pump hidden away inside the block and spun main bearings caused a lot of frustration, busted knuckles and appreciation for my 2.3L Pinto (PLENTY of room in that engine bay :thumbup:).

The water pump replacement almost caused the block to fall on my head (I disconnected the passenger side mount without supporting the engine). :eyecrazy:

IndyGarage
05-18-2012, 10:18 AM
I remember a Ford employee asking Bill Ford (during a stockholder's meeting) why couldn't we have a headgasket for the 3.8 that works. This was in the middle 90's, when they bought a Dell PC for everyone in the company.

Bill was in charge from late 99 to 2006.

IndyGarage
05-18-2012, 10:21 AM
I've loved the two of mine. Pretty dependable. The 4.3 "Vortec" has spider injector issues. Pretty cool, early design.



I didn't mind the 4.3 I had an earlier one in an 88 S-10 Blazer that I put about 105,000 miles on in 7 years. It vibrated a bit, but had good power.

I had another Blazer in the late 90's and they smoothed the engine out a lot, but the shift points seemed to make the engine feel like it was a dog.

ADaughen
05-18-2012, 11:19 AM
I didn't mind the 4.3 I had an earlier one in an 88 S-10 Blazer that I put about 105,000 miles on in 7 years. It vibrated a bit, but had good power.

I had another Blazer in the late 90's and they smoothed the engine out a lot, but the shift points seemed to make the engine feel like it was a dog.


Yep, I had a '92 and still have a '94. Both the 4L60 ('92) and 4L60E ('94) in these shift slow and require a lot of engine sounds to get there. :dunno:

adam728
05-18-2012, 11:36 AM
The Toyota 22R some of you guys were complaining about was great. It was an old, simple engine. Dad's '87 Truck had that motor with 230k miles on it, when I plowed it into a guardrail. Replace the distributor, radiator, and fan and she started right back up. Someone is probably still running that motor somewhere. :(

Now, I believe there were some early issues with the 22RE, fuel injected motor. But the old carb'd 22R was even featured on Top Gear as "un-killable".



Top Gear used a diesel Toyota, not a 22R.

The 22R/RE weakness was the timing chain guides. I picked one up real cheap once, as the owner had the head gasket replaced once, then again with a new head. Still filling the crankcase with oil. The plastic guides had broken and the chain wore into the timing cover until it cracked into the water pump area. As soon as the truck started heating up the coolant pressure would push thru and you'd drain 8-10 quarts of froth from the pan. New cover/guides/chain and I beat on it for 2 or 3 years before it spit a rod bearing. Surely had nothing to do with weeks or months it had spent with teh previous owner and a crankcase full of coolant.


As for 4.3's and intake gaskets, what about the 3800 Series II V6's?!?!?!?:lol_hitti

Copytech
05-18-2012, 04:51 PM
Ford Escort 4 cylinder - late 80's - my Mom bought one of these new, and it went through at least 4 new ECU's at about $500 a pop, and after awhile, so many of them went bad, that they couldn't get the part for weeks.


I believe that was a 2.3 or 2.4 litre cant remember for sure. I do remember working at a service station when I was just out of high school and that those escorts and tempos were the bulk of the service business. They blew control modules and timing belts like crazy.
Late 80's Escorts had 1.9l engines The GT got a multiport FI "HO" version

timtim2008
05-18-2012, 04:54 PM
old E type jag

tonycastec
05-18-2012, 06:08 PM
There's a Jaguar V6 like that, the intake manifold covers one bank so to change 3 plug you need to remove it, and all vacuum pipe and shit. :(

That "jaguar" V6 in the X Type is a Ford Duratec v6(as fitted to Escape and others) !
Jag have a new V6 now that is related to their all aluminum V8 and is unrelated to the Duratec

tonycastec
05-18-2012, 06:10 PM
Funny how a person can swear at an engine while the next guy will swear by the same engine. Everyone seems to like the SBC yet I have had miserable luck with the damned things. I have had so much trouble that I will no longer work with or on the dang things.

Others have said how bad the 6.0 diesels are. Yes they have had their problems in the Ford trucks. Take a look at the 6.0s that are in the IHC trucks. They have no problems compared to the Ford. Its the same engine...Why is that? I believe it is the Ford fuel management system nit the engine itself.

I also hope you are wrong about the Jag v-12s. That is what I am putting into my street rod.
For your street rod engine- suggest you sign up on the Jag-Lovers forum and learn all you can about the V12. They can be made reliable but you need specific knowledge to achieve that.Hence the J-L reference.

aussiek2000
05-18-2012, 06:13 PM
Top Gear used a diesel Toyota, not a 22R.

The 22R/RE weakness was the timing chain guides. I picked one up real cheap once, as the owner had the head gasket replaced once, then again with a new head. Still filling the crankcase with oil. The plastic guides had broken and the chain wore into the timing cover until it cracked into the water pump area. As soon as the truck started heating up the coolant pressure would push thru and you'd drain 8-10 quarts of froth from the pan. New cover/guides/chain and I beat on it for 2 or 3 years before it spit a rod bearing. Surely had nothing to do with weeks or months it had spent with teh previous owner and a crankcase full of coolant.


As for 4.3's and intake gaskets, what about the 3800 Series II V6's?!?!?!?:lol_hitti

Still not bad motors. You can do LIM gaskets in under 3 hours.

adam728
05-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Still not bad motors. You can do LIM gaskets in under 3 hours.

I know, I like ours, it just seems like 100% of them have needed the intake gaskets.

Dthreap
05-18-2012, 06:49 PM
I know, I like ours, it just seems like 100% of them have needed the intake gaskets.

'97 - '04 3800 motors will all need the LIM gaskets replaced because they just start to melt and corrode. '05 - '08 got the metal gaskets so they're fine.

You just have to watch because the EGR likes to melt little pin holes in the plastic UIM and warp it.

Jagmandave
05-18-2012, 10:25 PM
For your street rod engine- suggest you sign up on the Jag-Lovers forum and learn all you can about the V12. They can be made reliable but you need specific knowledge to achieve that.Hence the J-L reference.

I'm on JL too, very informative site.....

I've owned and worked on Jags all my adult life, I've never found the 6 cylinder engines to be troublesome unless not maintained.

The V-12 really only had a couple of issues, once you knew what they were it was easy to keep them on the road - maintenance again.

tribbles
05-21-2012, 09:58 PM
GM 60º V6 engines. Those cars should just leave the factory with a spare set of LIM gaskets in the trunk. What makes those worse than a 90º engine is the pushrods go through the LIM Gasket! At least you don't need to lock down the camshaft.

This. I had to pull the 3100 in our '97 Grand Am because when the LIM went, it dumped all the coolant into the crankcase. All of the bearings and the crank and cam journals were toast. I have a 3400 on an engine stand right now that I'm freshening up, should be a nice upgrade because GM didn't put 3400's in Grand Ams until '99.

GoFaster2
05-21-2012, 10:17 PM
I'd say the 400 sbc or the awful 2.7 Chrysler sludge factory.

Whats wrong with a 400?

GoFaster2
05-21-2012, 10:25 PM
Ford 4.6, cracking intakes and spitting spark plugs out,94-06. Anything small FWD Gm is crap.

byoungblood
05-21-2012, 11:41 PM
That Ford 2.3L has been pretty much the same for years. As long as you could keep them at running temp, they were great. My '87 Probe had one (1000 miles without oil and 5k neutral drops - long story); sister's '89 Tempo and wife's '90 Topaz had them, too. Sis wrecked her car and wife's (g/f at the time) Dad bought the car as parts.



Probe used a Mazda 2.2L, the Tempo/Topaz used the 2.3L HSC.

theoldwizard1
05-21-2012, 11:52 PM
I remember a Ford employee asking Bill Ford (during a stockholder's meeting) why couldn't we have a headgasket for the 3.8 that works.
Yep, putting an aluminum head on that iron block, WITHOUT INCREASING THE NUMBER OF HEAD BOLTS, was plain stupid. Ford made a "racing" prototype of that engine. It had extra head bolts.

The version used in the Windstar had issues with intake manifold leaks.

Management denied there was any issue, because their warranty system did not track failures over 50k miles. If it failed after 50k, it was as if oit never happened.

This was in the middle 90's, when they bought a Dell PC for everyone in the company.
Actually, the home PC's were made by HP. A lot of them still running.