Which welder?

[ChrisKoz]

I'd like to buy a mig welder in the near future. I have been restoring an 85 F150, as well as several motorcycles, that I could use it for. I also have some products around the house and I'd like to expand my know-how a bit, although right now I don't know exactly what that entails.
With that in mind I'm looking at these two welders:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=6271

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_135/

My friend has the Miller machine and I can get it for $500 in the box. He paid $650 and never used it. I know the Miller is better, but for my limited knowledge and current needs, how important is it? i.e. is it worth twice the price?
Thanks for any insight, I really appreciate all input. The wife and I are having twins in a few months and this may be my last big purchase for a while.

[toms73novass]

Yes it is worth twice the price, hands down!!!

I have used the cheaper ones and they are lousy compared to a good machine.

And you definately want to go with shielding gas, much better final product.

[PAToyota]

Second Tom's reply. A better machine is actually easier to learn on - you don't have to compensate for the machine's problems. Sort of the difference between trying to cut something with a cheap, dull knife or a quality, sharp knife. You will be much happier in the long run.

[bmwpower]

Second Tom's reply. A better machine is actually easier to learn on - you don't have to compensate for the machine's problems. Sort of the difference between trying to cut something with a cheap, dull knife or a quality, sharp knife. You will be much happier in the long run.

So where in the Miller line do the welders cross the line of being easy to work with and veer into being too complicated for a newbie?

[KingPerformance]

So where in the Miller line do the welders cross the line of being easy to work with and veer into being too complicated for a newbie?

I think with a little bit of help, and a LOT of practice all of the higher end welders are "easy to use". What they are referring to is when you have a welder with a low duty cycle that machine has a hard time keeping up with the bead and you have to change your rhythm and or style throughout the process making the act of welding tedious with mixed results to boot.

[ChrisKoz]

Should I consider something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/LINCOLN-HANDY-MIG-WIRE-WELDER-REFURBISH-120V-buySAFE_W0QQitemZ130114370422QQihZ003QQcategoryZ11 3743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks again for taking the time to view these.

[RockMonkey]

As others have said, absolutely get the miller over the HF welder. It's easily worth twice the price. I would strongly encourage you to step up to the Miller 180 though. It's 230 volts and much more versatile. Especially for automotive use there is a lot you can't do with a 110 welder.

I found the Millermatic 180 for $725 with Google.

If you don't want to spend quite that much you can get the Hobart Handler 180 instead. It's almost exactly the same welder and it's actually made by Miller. The gun even says Miller on it. It runs about $100 less. Here it is for $627. http://salestores.com/ho50180gasme.html I've done a lot of welding with this and it's a good little welder.

For an extra $127 the Hobart 180 is really a lot more welder than the Miller 135. You will quickly outgrow any of the 110 volt migs.

[Vicegrip]

I agree that the Miller 135 is a rock solid easy to learn and use MiG welder. Don't think twice about spending the extra money on it. Will last a lifetime and pay for itself over and over again in good hands. Easy to get consumables and 10, 15 or 20 years down the road when you need to replace a worn part you will be able to get one for the Miller. Good luck on the HF. the maker will likely be long gone and the clerk at H.F. will only give you a blank look.

I will have to respectfully disagree on the 120 volt being too small for auto work. I build race cages with an older 130. One handy aspect of a 120 volt welder is you can take it to the work and not the work to the welder as in a 240. Stuff it in the trunk and off to a friends house and it is strong enough for sheet metal to a frame clip. I use the 130 up to 1/4 thick plate. Another good aspect of the 120 volt units is most are better at thin metals than their big brothers.

[eschoendorff]

If you don't want to spend quite that much you can get the Hobart Handler 180 instead. It's almost exactly the same welder and it's actually made by Miller. The gun even says Miller on it. It runs about $100 less. Here it is for $627. http://salestores.com/ho50180gasme.html I've done a lot of welding with this and it's a good little welder.

For an extra $127 the Hobart 180 is really a lot more welder than the Miller 135. You will quickly outgrow any of the 110 volt migs.

What he said. Hobart welders are probably some of the best values in the industry. And, if you have to stick with 120vac, the Hobart 140 is a damn nice machine. Not overly complicated at all... and it's actually made here in the USA! :beer:

[Major Ramifications]

Wait, you guys are having twins in the near future, and she is cool with you getting a Miller or Lincoln MIG welder? Women like her are rare! Does she have a sister?

Oh yeah, and to answer your question, remember the old adage. "The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of a low price."

[stock z/28]

From strictly a financial view point, The Miller or Lincoln (or Hobart) has a very high resale value compared to the average import.


On the smaller welders I personally prefer the Lincolns but its just a mater of preferences.

I have Lincoln, Miller, and Hobart machines, and I have had excellent service with them all.

Jeff

[RockMonkey]

I will have to respectfully disagree on the 120 volt being too small for auto work. I build race cages with an older 130. One handy aspect of a 120 volt welder is you can take it to the work and not the work to the welder as in a 240. Stuff it in the trunk and off to a friends house and it is strong enough for sheet metal to a frame clip. I use the 130 up to 1/4 thick plate. Another good aspect of the 120 volt units is most are better at thin metals than their big brothers.

Sure you can build a cage with a 110 volt machine. You're only talking about .120 wall thickness or less. A 220 welder will make a better weld with a much higher duty cycle. You can't (or shouldn't) use that 110 volt machine to weld control arm brackets on an axle or fix a spun axle tube. I build cages that last for years being rolled on nearly every use. I build (narrow) axles and set up a lot of custom linked suspensions. You can't do those things properly with a 110 welder.

The 180 units are about the same size as the 140 units, so portability is not an issue, and surely your friend has a 210 dryer outlet in his house, right?

To each his own, but the fact is a 220 volt welder is much more versatile. I guess portability isn't an issue for me because all my friends have 220 welders in their garages too. :)

[PAToyota]

So where in the Miller line do the welders cross the line of being easy to work with and veer into being too complicated for a newbie?

I don't think you really do "cross a line" as you go up the models - assuming that you are sticking to one welding process. If you are talking MIG, you have two controls - wire feed speed and voltage. Same two controls from the MM140 up to the MM350 and the Passport and DVI as well. The Deltaweld and Invision machines start adding some other features, but you're also talking 3-phase which most of us don't have anyway so it isn't really an option (ok, the Invision 354 can be single phase but you are still talking a $4K+ machine...)

What going up the model lineup gives you most of all is duty cycle. Some of what it gives you is the ability to weld thicker metals, but most of us aren't out there welding inch thick plate. But whereas a 110V machine is going to run into that duty cycle welding 1/4" material and you're going to have to keep stopping - a higher end 220V machine will weld that 1/4" material continuously. You're going to get fatigued before the machine does...

What a Miller or Lincoln gives you over the HF special is something that will last, that you can get parts for, and also something that gives a better quality arc and smoother controls. I've used a few cheap welders through the years. You spend time fussing with them to dial them in to get them to weld halfway decently.

I'm not saying that the Millermatics are magic and set themselves perfectly the first time. But they just seem to "tweak" into place a heck of a lot more easily.

And I speak of Miller because I have a pair - MIG and TIG. I've owned Lincoln in the past and have also used ESAB and Hobart machines. They are all decent machines. I have a pair of Millers because that is what I found the best deal on at the time.

What I'd really recommend is to take a class at your local community college. Use some of the big, name brand machines. Then you will be equipped to recognize the faults of the cheap machines and also understand what a more powerful machine is buying you. Believe me, if all you've used is a little 110V machine you are making allowances for its limitations. Once you've used a bigger 220V machine you really begin to understand what advantages it has.

[RockMonkey]

At least we all agree on one thing. Skip the Harbor Freight welder. ;)

[Vicegrip]

I'd like to buy a mig welder in the near future. I have been restoring an 85 F150, as well as several motorcycles, that I could use it for. I also have some products around the house and I'd like to expand my know-how a bit, although right now I don't know exactly what that entails.
With that in mind I'm looking at these two welders:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=6271

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_135/

My friend has the Miller machine and I can get it for $500 in the box. He paid $650 and never used it. I know the Miller is better, but for my limited knowledge and current needs, how important is it? i.e. is it worth twice the price?
Thanks for any insight, I really appreciate all input. The wife and I are having twins in a few months and this may be my last big purchase for a while.

RockMonkey. There is some overlap in capacity in the two welders and you are right a 120 will not do some of the work that a 220 will. On the other hand most 220s can't go as low as a 120 and are not as good for light sheet metal work you often run into doing resto work. Again right, I don't often work tubing over 1.75X.120. When I need to do work much over 1/4 to 3/8 which is not too often as I don't build rock crawlers I go to the Syncro 250 or old buzz box and stick weld it. True on forget the HF unit!

I was looking at the info ChrisKoz posted and basing a recommendation on that. The deal he was looking at could get him started with a good machine that would more than cover the work required to resto a P/U and tinker with some bikes. Have some fun, learn to weld and if he finds the unit lacking sell it for most of what he paid and get a larger or more complex machine.

ChrisKoz, Best of luck with the twins! I have two little pink house/shop monkeys that are 17 months apart and they keep us both busy. 2 kids is not 1+1=2 it is Kid Squared.

[RockMonkey]

RockMonkey. There is some overlap in capacity in the two welders and you are right a 120 will not do some of the work that a 220 will. On the other hand most 220s can't go as low as a 120 and are not as good for light sheet metal work you often run into doing resto work. Again right, I don't often work tubing over 1.75X.120. When I need to do work much over 1/4 to 3/8 which is not too often as I don't build rock crawlers I go to the Syncro 250 or old buzz box and stick weld it. True on forget the HF unit!

I was looking at the info ChrisKoz posted and basing a recommendation on that. The deal he was looking at could get him started with a good machine that would more than cover the work required to resto a P/U and tinker with some bikes. Have some fun, learn to weld and if he finds the unit lacking sell it for most of what he paid and get a larger or more complex machine.

ChrisKoz, Best of luck with the twins! I have two little pink house/shop monkeys that are 17 months apart and they keep us both busy. 2 kids is not 1+1=2 it is Kid Squared.

Yeah, he needs to think about what he wants to do before he decides what welder to get.

By the way, one squared equals one! :spit:

[PAToyota]

On the other hand most 220s can't go as low as a 120 and are not as good for light sheet metal work you often run into doing resto work.

Might want to check the specs - Millermatic 140 goes 30 to 140 amps while the Millermatic 350 goes 25 to 400 amps... So the big machine will actually go lower... Other than the MM350, the whole lineup starts at 30amps.

[the dude]

I have the miller 135 and really like this unit for a 110V machine. It's on gas (a must) I also have access to a miller 251 (the father in law never uses it and it resides in my garage) and really like this machine as well, however:

If I was going to buy one machine for a hobby/fab situation I would buy the Hobart 187. This is a kick butt little machine that will do almost anything you ask of it.

[ChrisKoz]

RockMonkey. There is some overlap in capacity in the two welders and you are right a 120 will not do some of the work that a 220 will. On the other hand most 220s can't go as low as a 120 and are not as good for light sheet metal work you often run into doing resto work. Again right, I don't often work tubing over 1.75X.120. When I need to do work much over 1/4 to 3/8 which is not too often as I don't build rock crawlers I go to the Syncro 250 or old buzz box and stick weld it. True on forget the HF unit!

I was looking at the info ChrisKoz posted and basing a recommendation on that. The deal he was looking at could get him started with a good machine that would more than cover the work required to resto a P/U and tinker with some bikes. Have some fun, learn to weld and if he finds the unit lacking sell it for most of what he paid and get a larger or more complex machine.

ChrisKoz, Best of luck with the twins! I have two little pink house/shop monkeys that are 17 months apart and they keep us both busy. 2 kids is not 1+1=2 it is Kid Squared.


Thank you. I'm still in naive excitement but the reality about how this is going to change my life is starting to sink in. Still haven't made a decision about welder. The only projcets on the horizon is body work for the truck and very light fabrication for an old bike I'm restoring. After shopping for matching baby cribs, $500 for a welder seems selfish right now. However, the information provided is a huge help.

[SteveL]

I'm thinking that renting one from HD makes some sense instead of paying the $500+ for a decent one if you only need it once in a while. You can get a decent Lincoln 110v for $25/day around here. Do all your prep work and cutting ahead of time and you should be able to do most jobs in a day or two. I have not rented one, yet, but have a buddy that has and said they worked fine.

[lethal-6]

You might take a look at the Northern Tool small mig welder . Right now its on sale for around $263.00 . It seems to be getting some good reveiws. Might be worth checking in to. Just a thought ,good luck.

[Coach James]

When I was looking to buy a welder, the guys at the local welding supply told me to take a class first then decide what welder I wanted. A+ advice. I took a class at the community college and learned O/A and mig. My teacher had me(I was the only one in the class) use a Miller 135, 180 and his old 200. I could really tell a difference between the 135 and the 180.

For my needs the 135 was fine. Later on, perhaps a 180 is in the works. I bought the 135 from a welding supplier because as a novice, I wanted to have someone to call for advice and troubleshooting plus the service if needed. It cost a little more than Lowes, but has been well worth it. Asking the guys there a question is 10,000% better than asking the know nothing at Lowes a question.

Another thing my teacher did was have me weld using a HF cheapo. He did that so I could really compare the HF to a Miller and Lincoln. Absolutely no comparison. With the HF I would never know if the problem was me or the machine. Very hit and miss and absolutely no fun to use. Also when he showed me the insides of the machines, many of the parts on the HF were plastic while the Miller and Lincolns were metal.

As a side note, my wife and I have a 1 and 3 year old. I had a stroke when I saw what stores charge for cribs etc. We bought our crib second hand at a consignment store. Paid $100 for a nice crib in great condition. Brand new it was $450. Bought tons of baby clothes off ebay. All in good shape for pennies on the dollar. Their coats this past winter came from ebay, looked unused for $2 each. The moms group at our church and the one in our town pass around baby clothes all the time. I think some of those are on their 3rd or 4th family now.

Coach