The Garage Journal Board

The Garage Journal Board (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/index.php)
-   Flooring (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   PEI 3 ok for garage floor? (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197551)

Gunslinger99 04-21-2013 09:20 PM

PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Hi Guys,

Found a good deal on some glazed porcelain tile. It's rated PEI 3 and Dry Coefficient of Friction 0.6 Wet Coefficient of Friction 0.4.


Would you pass on this for a garage floor? I know the threads I have read have said PEI 4 or higher.

With this being porcelain I am wondering will it work for a garage floor?

Thanks!

Gunslinger99 04-22-2013 12:34 AM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

I know PEI 4 and 5 is what has been recommended on this site multiple times. I was hoping someone would chime in and give me some input on pei 3. I found a really get deal on glazed porcelain tile where I could get all the tile for my garage for about a $150. Unfortunatly it is rated pei 3. For this cost would I regret buying it and installing it in my garage? Would it not be hard enough to stand up to light garage use?

Just wondering what you guys would do in this situation. Go with this pei 3 tile at this great price or keep looking for pei 4-5 and spend a little more???

Thanks in advance for any opinions on this.....

Jack Olsen 04-22-2013 01:13 AM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

My opinion would be that's too slippery. Maybe too soft, too, but I don't have any experience with PEI 3 tiles. But I don't think the .4 coefficient of friction would pass code in California outdoor applications (which is essentially how a garage functions).

MoonRise 04-22-2013 01:42 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Usually, the cost of the labor to install the tile is going to be higher than the cost of the the tile itself (not counting some handmade, by virgins during the second full moon of the year at midnight, stuff :D ).

IMHO, nope. PEI-3 is really not suitable for a garage. 4 or (preferably) 5.

Your tires never get stones or gravel stuck in the tread blocks or sipes? Mine do. Dragging or moving jacks or jack stands across the floor?

http://www.builddirect.com/Porcelain..._Hardness.aspx

http://www.tilestoreonline.com/Articles.asp?ID=132

Slipperiness? Sounds a bit too slippery as well.

http://www.builddirect.com/Porcelain..._Flooring.aspx

duneslider 04-22-2013 04:37 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Just to be clear, the tile is porcelain and is hard and will last as long as you do. The finish/glaze on a Pei 3 will wear quicker. That would be a rating for a residential interior floor.

It will loose its nice finish probably faster than you would like.

I would keep looking. Sounds a little too slick anyway.

mitchtr25068 04-22-2013 04:56 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Glad this came up today because I was going to ask opinions on a porcelain 12x24 tile rated 4 with wet coefficient of .71 and dry .73, frost resistant, chemical resistant, impervious to water, ada compliant and rated indoor. My three classic triumphs leak a bit of oil which is why the glazed appeals to me, but I would want informed opinions on whether they're going to have a high enough coefficient for me not to break my neck. Sorry to hijack, but it's the same topic. Thanks in advance for the combined knowledge of this group. It's a tile from lowes that's flat gray and made to look like a concrete floor, and I'd be using dark grout

duneslider 04-22-2013 05:07 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

They (ANSI) say that a wet COF of .6 or better is what you want for a floor. So, your .7 is better than that.

Pei4 glaze will be pretty durable. I want to say someone else posted pictures of this tile on their garage floor recently.

However, oil leaks and water will make for a slippery floor of almost any type.

mitchtr25068 04-22-2013 06:55 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Agree on all fronts dune slider. I guess after living 20 years with oily floors on top of my craftsman race-deck-style floor that I know what to look out for and this won't be much worse or better. What I won't miss because my garage is on a ninety degree angle from my driveway and house is the craftsman tiles buckling up every time I pull in from angle!

Gunslinger99 04-22-2013 07:18 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by duneslider (Post 3066703)
Just to be clear, the tile is porcelain and is hard and will last as long as you do. The finish/glaze on a Pei 3 will wear quicker. That would be a rating for a residential interior floor.

It will loose its nice finish probably faster than you would like.

I would keep looking. Sounds a little too slick anyway.


Thank you. I'm glad I didn't go for it. Thanks for your response. I want this to be a one time installation.

JakeKohl 04-23-2013 12:45 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

I have some samples of PEI 3 rectified porcelain and did some destructive testing with it (dropping steel on it, sand paper, scraping it with screwdrivers, etc)....I haven't been able to leave a mark on it that doesn't break the tile (free floating and unattached to the concrete). I can't imagine a situation where the finish won't be tough enough for a garage that sees something move on it a couple of times a week (though heavier, considerably less traffic than the inside of a home). This thread has me concerned though...crap.

How does a tile with a lower PEI rating wear? Does the surface finish slowly work away? The PEI rating only relates to the surface finish - right? If so, I may stick with my selected PEI 3 tile because the price and availability are really phenomenal and I can't see a scenario where it is a problem for me.

duneslider 04-23-2013 01:32 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Pei rating only applies to the glaze/surface of the tile. The way the test is performed is the put a piece of the tile on a machine with a round wall applied to the center of the disk, think of a 1inch tall piece of 3-4inch pipe. Then they put different mediums in the "pipe" and the machine shakes the tile to let the different mediums roll around. This is a destructive test. I don't remember exactly what all the different items are they put in but they start out with say steel BB's and let it run for xx-minutes, they check and switch to BB's twice the size and let it run for xx-minutes. The longer the test runs the heavier and more destructive it becomes until there is a noticeable damage to the surface.
A Pei 5 makes it to the end of the specified test without showing signs of surface damage. I will see if I can find any pictures of the test, I know people who work at one of the labs that does it but most tests are private and they aren't publicly shared.

Using a Pei 3 in a garage will most likely only show a degradation of the sheen of the tile. It will begin to look dull. Heavy abuse could completely remove the glaze and it would look like whatever the color of the body of the tile is. You could find areas of glaze coming up and that would look similar to a chunk of paint on a wall that pulls off.

Even Pei 1 or 2 glaze most likely won't scratch if you try with a screw driver. Common steel isn't hard enough. Carbide, tungsten, diamond etc will scratch it quite easily though.

JakeKohl 04-23-2013 02:58 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

That's good and interesting information.

For my application, I'm really comparing the durability of the surface of the tile to other floor coatings - epoxy finishes, raw concrete, or perhaps even a plastic tile. I can't seem to get it out of my head that even a PEI 3 porcelain tile will far outperform any of these other finishing options...no? I guess part of the problem becomes what to do when it wears? Replacing 900 sqft of tile would be probably on par with epoxy or worse.

If you guys have a line on a nice rectified PEI 4 (or higher) tile, I would really like to take a look to compare pricing. I'm looking at a $1.99/sq ft 12x18" rectified tile available in anthracite and light grey that is a PEI 3. It's got a marginal coefficient of friction for an outdoor application - but my garage is 80% workshop and 20% garage...and the car that lives in the garage doesn't venture into the rain very often.

BFBOB 04-23-2013 04:18 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Prince Edward Island??

duneslider 04-23-2013 04:40 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Tile will last longer than any epoxy or plastic tile if done right.

Personally, I would try to find a pei 4 and I wouldn't stress a rectified. If you are really good you can get a little tighter grout joint with rectified but in a garage who cares. Just my opinion.

JakeKohl 04-23-2013 08:52 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by duneslider (Post 3069167)
Tile will last longer than any epoxy or plastic tile if done right.

Personally, I would try to find a pei 4 and I wouldn't stress a rectified. If you are really good you can get a little tighter grout joint with rectified but in a garage who cares. Just my opinion.

Personally, I was hoping to lessen the "thud, thud, thud" when rolling a jack, tablesaw, or drillpress, etc. across the floor with the rectified tile and a smaller grout line.

Gunslinger99 04-23-2013 11:35 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFBOB (Post 3069116)
Prince Edward Island??



Porcelain Enamel Institute

Gunslinger99 04-23-2013 11:48 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

Ok. Now I'm a bit confused. I thought the pei rating had to do with the hardness of the tile?? When I look at the specs of a pei 5 rated tile it says 500-750 in pounds. Pei 3 says 250-500 inch pounds. Does it have to do with both, wear and hardness?

I have been worried about a pei 3 rated tile not being hard enough to handle garage traffic and cracking under the weight of a car. Haven't been too worried about the glaze wearing off as much. But I'm glad you posted more info about that, dune slider. That is something to be concerned about even in a garage. Might look pretty bad after a while of dragging a floor jack around on it?

Thanks for all the discussion in this thread please keep them coming.

--------> found this about pei -------->

PEI Wear Rating
Porcelain Enamel Institute (PEI) Wear Rating
Indicates tile’s resistance to abrasion; reflects suitability for floor traffic.

PEI I and II: Lowest resistance. Not suitable for floors (walls only).
PEI III: Moderate resistance. Suitable for all residential uses.
PEI IV: High resistance. Suitable for all residential and light commercial uses.
PEI IV+: Highest resistance. Suitable for all residential and all commercial and heavy traffic uses.
Note: PEI wear ratings apply to glazed ceramic floor tiles only.

frantylouis 04-24-2013 12:29 AM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

I think you should go for PEI 4 or 5 and make sure that PEI floor rating is not the only factor that should be evaluated and think other things like coefficient of friction, abrasive hardness, chemical resistance, water penetration through glaze.

duneslider 04-24-2013 11:15 AM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

the MoHs Scale is used to determine the hardness of the tile and there is a test for resistance to breaking from impact but I don't recall it off hand nor have I seen it mentioned much. Most tiles won't have this listed and it won't be available. All these tests are expensive to have done and on inexpensive tiles they won't spend the money to have all these tested. Lots of chinese tile these days too and they don't tend to spend the money for testing.

slickgt1 04-24-2013 12:05 PM

Re: PEI 3 ok for garage floor?
 

My experience. If you take a grinder to it, and the tile cuts like butter, it is too soft. If you are dusting like a mofo, and you are barely moving the cut, it's good enough.

I have done quite a few tile installs outside, nothing big. Porch here, deck there. Stopped paying attention to the markings. For general walking purposes, it is all holding up great. My PEI IV and PEI V tile is holding up like a champ in the garage. I abuse it like no other. Really do treat it like concrete.

Once you rub off the paint transfer from the oil pan, from an engine that fell on it, you can't find the mark where the engine fell. Don't ask.

I think its a function of proper, no voids installation, more than PEI rating. You want to do a real test, mix up a little thinset and stick it to your floor. Then put a jackstand on it, and beat it with a sledge. Taking off one tile is easy. I bet most would be surprised what even the "softest" tile will take to break. Remember, most tiles are designed to be stuck to a wood subfloor, or drywal, or durok, or hardi. Now imagine sticking it to a 4" slab of concrete, that will have zero flex.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.