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Old 03-04-2012, 04:00 PM   #4581
Sledguy74
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Default Re: Restored 1930's Auto Shop

fantastic job!
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:50 PM   #4582
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Default Re: Restored 1930's Auto Shop

Thomas and Chris, What a fantastic job you have done here. I have lurked here for a long time and you are the reason I have joined. Have read thru the entire thread and all I can say is what a fantastic job you have (three) done. Thanks for the running comentary, look foward to new post all the time.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:09 AM   #4583
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Default Re: Restored 1930's Auto Shop

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Thomas, Chris;

So glad you and your tribe are OK, the news about the storms was really something! Lets hope the worst is over for a while.....

Loved the bench report. I've used hard masonite in the past myself for bench tops; although very similar in design, mine was a little different in execution. I used some red oak someone gave me for banding, and instead of varathane, I used Watco oil - both on the banding and the masonite, followed by a couple of treatments of paste wax and some hand polishing. That little bit of elbow grease results in a satisfying glow when the garage lights are turned on, and the fact that I did the work myself means I treat it a little better when I use it for greasy bits. My craftsmanship and joinery skills are nothing compared to yours; you seem to have the patience I sometimes lack but it was nice to see a similar solution to the age old problem of how to keep a bench top looking decent over the long haul.

Like everyone else here, I am looking forward to the next installment of the saga.
Thanks oberst, do you have any pictures of that bench? Also I'm curious how the Watco in holding up. As you know I used Watco on the lower cabinet of the Barn Bench and I've used it several times over the years on furniture, a fireplace mantle and such but never in an application like a bench. I know it's easy enough to repair but do you find it's durable?

The saga here continues........

Thomas
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:13 AM   #4584
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. . . certainly easier than oil quenching!
Just try and make a mental picture of dangling the anvil, 206 lbs of it glowing hot, over a vat of oil. Not a pretty sight!

Thomas
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:17 AM   #4585
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fantastic job!
A man of few words I see, nothing wrong with that.

Welcome Sledguy74 and thank you. Check back, OK?

Thomas
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:29 AM   #4586
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Thomas and Chris, What a fantastic job you have done here. I have lurked here for a long time and you are the reason I have joined. Have read thru the entire thread and all I can say is what a fantastic job you have (three) done. Thanks for the running comentary, look foward to new post all the time.
Another lurker comes out of the closet and a next door neighbor at that! A warm welcome Bumpy55 to our group here. Glad you're checking in and I really do appreciate the kind words and feedback. Knowing there are folks out there as interested as I am in the shop and it's past history, both old and new keeps me from folding up the tent and moving on.

Is there a story that goes with your avatar or is it just a neat picture?

Thomas
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:37 AM   #4587
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Now that you've said that watch out Thomas. Fort Worth (the real fort and then the town) was built where it was because the indians told the military that a tornado would never hit at the location where the Trinity rivers meet up to form one. That was in 1849 and it held true for over a century and 1/2, but downtown did get hit by a tornado in 2000 so don't think it won't happen.
charlief1 there's an extension to Murphy's Law,

"It will be all your fault, and everyone will know it."

I hope I haven't put the fix in for Philo now.

Don't say it can't because it can! In aviation no truer words were ever said.

Thomas
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:39 AM   #4588
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Thomas and Chris: Glad to hear all is well in Philo. As you have heard all is not well in Southeastern Illinois in Harrisburg and in Ridgway. Harrisburg lost 6 residents in the tornado that went through these two communities Wednesday am just around 5AM. The Catholic Church in Ridgway is no longer standing after 140+ years. Our FD was toned to assist Ridgway and I've been over there helping, took two vacation days and went to work Friday and then helped that afternoon from 4:30 to about 6:30 and yesterday from 12:00 pm to about 6:30 pm. Attended the prayer service this afternoon at 4 pm in the parish center where the names of the 6 victims of Harrisburg were read aloud and a candle was lit for them. Please keep the families in your prayers, and God bless all of you!
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:16 AM   #4589
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Default Re: Restored 1930's Auto Shop

This sycamore thing has legs, that's for sure. I haven't been here for a couple of days and wanted to go back and address the "hardwood issue". Abut posts 4550 or so.

For those that are interested here is a site discussing it.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/env...uestion598.htm

As Thomas has commented on, hardwood does not refer to the "toughness" of the wood but something about the growth physiology. I have encountered walnut that carved like butter and walnut that required a BFH to get the chisel into it. Mahogany is liked because of the ease with which it carves. Pine is liked by chainsaw carvers.

Sycamore is a relatively soft hardwood. Easy to cut, pane and sand. I've run into pine and fir that is harder to work than some sycamore.

I think Thomas' tables are just beautiful. I only offer this as an alternative that I do, in the finish department for others that read this. On work tables, I like to not put a surface finish on for the reason others inquired about. It chips, scratches and gouges. Instead I like an oil (linseed, beeswax, Danish oil; although some will build up a surface finish over time) finish that I can scrape/sand and re-coat. Let the character show.

Dave.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:09 PM   #4590
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Default Re: Restored 1930's Auto Shop

From howstuffworks.com:

The distinction between hardwood and softwood actually has to do with plant reproduction. All trees reproduce by producing seeds, but the seed structure varies. Hardwood trees are angiosperms, plants that produce seeds with some sort of covering. This might be a fruit, such as an apple, or a hard shell, such as an acorn.

Softwoods, on the other hand, are gymnosperms. These plants let seeds fall to the ground as is, with no covering. Pine trees, which grow seeds in hard cones, fall into this category. In conifers like pines, these seeds are released into the wind once they mature. This spreads the plant's seed over a wider area.

For the most part, angiosperm trees lose their leaves during cold weather while gymnosperm trees keep their leaves all year round. So, it's also accurate to say evergreens are softwoods and deciduous trees are hardwoods.

The hardwood/softwood terminology does make some sense. Evergreens do tend to be less dense than deciduous trees, and therefore easier to cut, while most hardwoods tend to be more dense, and therefore sturdier. But, as the classification of balsa wood demonstrates, there is no minimum weight requirement to become a hardwood.
---

In framing pictures, it helps to know the type of wood used for the moulding when using v-nails.

Chris
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:44 PM   #4591
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Default Re: Restored 1930's Auto Shop

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From howstuffworks.com:

The distinction between hardwood and softwood actually has to do with plant reproduction. All trees reproduce by producing seeds, but the seed structure varies. Hardwood trees are angiosperms, plants that produce seeds with some sort of covering. This might be a fruit, such as an apple, or a hard shell, such as an acorn.

Softwoods, on the other hand, are gymnosperms. These plants let seeds fall to the ground as is, with no covering. Pine trees, which grow seeds in hard cones, fall into this category. In conifers like pines, these seeds are released into the wind once they mature. This spreads the plant's seed over a wider area.

For the most part, angiosperm trees lose their leaves during cold weather while gymnosperm trees keep their leaves all year round. So, it's also accurate to say evergreens are softwoods and deciduous trees are hardwoods.

The hardwood/softwood terminology does make some sense. Evergreens do tend to be less dense than deciduous trees, and therefore easier to cut, while most hardwoods tend to be more dense, and therefore sturdier. But, as the classification of balsa wood demonstrates, there is no minimum weight requirement to become a hardwood.
---

In framing pictures, it helps to know the type of wood used for the moulding when using v-nails.

Chris
You didn't mention that we would want to remember this information so we can expect that it will not be on the test..
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:38 PM   #4592
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Thomas and Chris: Glad to hear all is well in Philo. As you have heard all is not well in Southeastern Illinois in Harrisburg and in Ridgway. Harrisburg lost 6 residents in the tornado that went through these two communities Wednesday am just around 5AM. The Catholic Church in Ridgway is no longer standing after 140+ years. Our FD was toned to assist Ridgway and I've been over there helping, took two vacation days and went to work Friday and then helped that afternoon from 4:30 to about 6:30 and yesterday from 12:00 pm to about 6:30 pm. Attended the prayer service this afternoon at 4 pm in the parish center where the names of the 6 victims of Harrisburg were read aloud and a candle was lit for them. Please keep the families in your prayers, and God bless all of you!
Thank you D.J. for the update. Chris and I have been following the news from there. It's about 160 miles almost exactly due south of us. Those of us living in small towns all over the Midwest historically will always rise to the challenge helping each other out in time of need. That goes hand in hand with living here and the belief - make the world a better place because you were in it. Know that you and the families affected are in our thoughts and prayers.

Thomas
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:28 AM   #4593
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[QUOTE=type47fan;2117459]
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....

Many times over the years I have been contacted about a nice Walnut or other hardwood tree that needed to be removed and would I be interested in it in exchange for cleaning up all the associated tree debris afterward? Over the years the amount of lumber I acquired grew faster than I could use it.


Fascinating, Thomas . . . . would you happen to have pictures of any of the magnificent trees prior to harvesting? I'm sure that you conjure up a few of their images each time you handle the boards.
....
Wayne, here are a few pictures of one of the Walnuts you asked about being cut down. This is the tree my largest Walnut fireplace mantle slab came from. I still remember this tree very well.



The owner knew I did some furniture work so he contacted me after it had been hit by lighting and was hoping I'd turn the tree into lumber rather than have it sawn up for firewood. He gave it to me in exchange for removing and cleaning all the debris up. Notice how straight the trunk is. That first main branch was over 12' above the ground. The trunk diameter exceeded as I recall 38" and it didn't really taper until after the first main branch.. The main trunk up to the the first main branch contained a massive amount of beautiful, straight, knot free Walnut.



Beyond the first main branch the trunk continued straight with very few branches for another 18'. Many times the most usable yield comes only from the main trunk below the first main branch. But since the trunk continued knot free, and so straight well above that I got several logs out of the secondary trunk. You can see the bark on the bottom center of the trunk here is split and missing. That's where the lighting exited the tree after striking it. About 1/4 of the tree leafed out after the strike the next year and I cut it the following spring so no decay what so ever had set in. All the wood in the tree was useable. Tree sap is found in the sapwood, the outer most portion of the trunk, just under the bark. Sap consists primarily of water, along with hormones, minerals, and nutrients and can conduct electricity from say, a lighting strike. This electrical charge heats up and literally boils the sap causing it's rapid expansion and the bark to explode off the trunk. The damage it caused to the heartwood on this tree was very localized and didn't result in much if any lose of the the heartwood.



So there I am in silhouette slowing taking it apart some 20+' feet in the air. I can't remember if Chris took these or a buddy who was helping me.



All the leaves are off and you can see I'm bundled up, the back of the pictures says it was early spring 1982. I wanted to harvest it before the outside air temperature warmed up to minimize splitting and checking.



I didn't want to waste anything so I made sure the trunk wasn't damaged while the upper limbs were removed. It took all day to cut down and another day to clean up all the smaller limbs and work site. Then to load those massive logs I borrowed a trailer that would tilt and was low to the ground. It's the kind of trailer that you can lock the wheels and slide the trailer floor so that one end is on the ground. I don't know the name of those types of trailers but farmers used them to haul combine heads. Then I wrapped a chain around the end of the log and using a come-along wenched it by hand onto the trailer. I didn't have access to any power equipment back then. I was on a pretty strict budget. I don't know how much weight was on the trailer but I had to make 4 trips to the saw mill with just this one tree to spread the weight around. The saw mill I used was an old, one man operation. I've got some pictures of it being sawn up. The old fellow at the mill was pretty impressed with what I brought him.



These are some of the boards and slab that came from that tree. Some of the most attractive Walnut colored wood I've got.

Thomas

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Old 03-06-2012, 01:42 AM   #4594
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(Is there a story that goes with your avatar or is it just a neat picture?)

That Thomas is the results of a 10/32 set screw going thru the blower and hanging an intake open. Norwalk 07 IHRA. Could see the thread mark on the rotors from the blower where it went thru it. The screw came out of the blower drive support (its a PSI set back blower). Switched blowers, put in new burst panels in the manifold and ran next Q session, no major damage. I have worked on Alcohol and Nitro Funny cars for 16 years. We finished in the top 10 (national) running NHRA Top Alcohol Funny Car in 04 with Paul Lee driving. Lot of good memories from RT66 Raceway. By the way I love the Impala's !

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Old 03-06-2012, 01:03 PM   #4595
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Thomas,

Thanks for posting pictures of the "Harvest of the Walnut Tree".

It's amazing that you were able, with limited equipment and help, to bring that tree down in 2 days, minimizing damage to the tree (and yourself) and haul it off to be processed. Your planning and execution some 30 years ago produced a valuable and meaningful stock of raw material for your future spectacular woodworking projects.

For me, the impact of seeing a picture of you in the top of the tree followed by a shot of the milled lumber resting properly in the racks is tremendous. It is consistent with the nature of your documentary, showing the before and after conditions. What a journey!

Thanks, again, for sharing it with us.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:24 PM   #4596
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I did not take the picture of Tom up the tree. He knows I'll tell him "no!" about doing those dangerous things. Thus, I also wasn't around for the digging out of the Rotary lift or the clean-up of the out-buildings on the property. I do better at nursing after the fact - and, believe me, there have been plenty of times! He just goes all-out, no matter what, even if he has to do it himself..

Chris
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:50 PM   #4597
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MArkviii....do you own a Markviii? I own 2.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:13 PM   #4598
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Yes, I do (early 1993 model)! You've got a lot of catching up to do if you don't remember post #392 (pg. 20) from over 2 years ago! What year are your MarkVIIIs and do you show them? Do you belong to LCOC? We'll be in Chattanooga, TN, for the Eastern National LCOC show in May. I'm after my 2nd Emeritus the second time around to another crystal bowl (not that I'm in it for the awards, but it helps me keep the car maintained). Time to start prepping it soon.

Welcome to our thread.

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Old 03-06-2012, 10:32 PM   #4599
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My wife and I have 2 98's. Owned mine for 6 years and now retired to summer only. Her's for 12. Both are slightly modified. My main Lincoln site/club is Lincolns of Distinction (LOD) at www.mark8.org. Checkout if you never heard of it. I also frequent cadillacs vs lincolns. That is one nice looking mark 8 in post 392. I added LCOC to my sites to frequent.

This garage build is awesome! Too bad I do not come down to the champaign area anymore. Used to have some family in Urbanna.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:36 PM   #4600
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Here are some photographs of Bob's Saw Mill circa 1980. This is the mill where, over the years, I use to have all my timber sawn into lumber. Pretty unassuming when you drive up to it for the first time. You can see some logs to the far right.



It was operated by one, older gentleman by the name of Bob Valentine, commonly referred to locally as "The Apple Man" since he lived on several acres that contained his apple orchard and saw mill. His age was in his late 70's when we first met and I don't believe he ever married, a confirmed lifelong bachelor and he like it that way. He could be a bit gruff when you first met him but he was, in reality, a teddybear of a guy. His philosophy when asked if he was concerned about kids stealing apples from his trees was, "if I thought they were taking that many apples I'd just plant another tree." Pretty mellow fellow really once you got to know him.



Moving around to the back or business end of the mill reveals on the left the old green mid-1930's Oliver tractor he powered the mill with via the tractors PTO (power take off) and about a 30' (9.1 m) long flat belt. He used a hand crank to start the old Oliver and could usually get it started with just a couple of cranks. Circled is the carriage where the logs will be placed and the saw. In the foreground are boards stacked that have already been sawn.



Here's a view inside the mill (I was photography challenged back then to say the least, sorry) Circled is the saw blade about 5' (1.5 m) in diameter. In the background is the Oliver tractor.



Here's Dad standing by an oak log to give you an idea how large material Bob could handle. He used that Ford 8N tractor around the mill to move the larger logs. In the back is Bob's small brick house, just steps away from the mill and our green Chevy van that we used to move the lumber once it was sawn.



First thing Bob asked was if the logs came from trees in the city or the country. He didn't like city trees, "too much hidden hardware in them". He meant nails, screws, porcelain wire insulators, Terraplane steering wheels , that sort of hardware. Saws and metal don't get along well. Hit a nail with the saw and you risk at the very least instantly dulling it and at worst breaking a saw tooth or teeth. His policy was, if your log results in breakage, you get to pay for a replacement tooth or teeth. Fair enough. He always looked the logs over very carefully and here he's using this metal detector (yellow circle) examining the logs before he did any sawing. Background in the green circle are the handles of cant hooks. A cant is what a log is called after it's been squared and these tools helped turn the cant when it's on the carriage. Here's a link for some background information on peaveys and cant hooks.

http://www.ruralheritage.com/logging_camp/peavey.htm

Bob's the one who taught me all about his mill and all the correct terminology for everything. "If you'er going to help me out here at least pretend you'er intelligent." Remember I said he could be a bit gruff? Dad and I instantly liked him. Circled in red is a old wood bodied pulley or block positioned right over the carriage to help with larger logs.



Whenever Dad and I brought logs to Bob he always let us help him saw them. That's the saw blade circled in the picture above and below. No guards of any kind around it - respect the blade! We first started to use Bob's services because he had a reputation of maintaining his equipment and cutting straight boards. That's pretty important in a saw mill, they don't all do that.



Dad helped position the logs onto the carriage and help Bob decide how each log should be sawn to maximize yield based on the grain. He also helped turn the cants when needed to get the best looking grain patterns. They both would study each cant as it was being cut. I remember how excited they both would get when a particularly nice log was cut into for the first time. It was like unwrapping a present with each cut. My job was the off bearer removing the boards from the off-feed rollers and piling them in stacks. I had to almost run to keep up with those two. Here's a link to see an old saw mill in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxsSr...eature=related



Here's a few hours work worth of Walnut boards. When it was first cut, some of the Walnut boards were almost purple in color, slowly changing to chocolate brown as they dried. With this batch it took more than 1 trip with the van to move them all.



Here's one of my first batches of Walnut stacked in the same order that they came out of the log with stickers and starting to dry. This was before I learned to paint ends with white glue, here using white paint.



This was one of the last times we were out to see Bob, seen here leaning on his cant hook along with Dad. He preferred to saw furniture grade lumber in the winter to minimize checking and warping.



He had replaced the old Oliver tractor with this Caterpillar 4 cylinder diesel he bought surplus. He still used a flat 10" (3.9 cm) wide belt, seen on the bottom, left to right, to power the saw. To start the diesel you first started a small gasoline engine and then that gas engine was used to turn the big, old Cat over. In cold weather it turned over slowly when being started but always barked to life. Bob was awfully proud of his Cat. He said he was "getting too damn old to fool with that old Oliver"

Bob is no longer with us and I'm sorry to say I don't know what became of his mill. He was one of a kind much like Mr. Johnson. I consider the time spent with both Dad and him over the years a gift.

Thomas

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