Tools from the old world

[Monte]

Nice ! Please post some pics of the pliers when they arrive, especially of the IPS soft face pliers which I`m interested in.

I found the Matador 5060 in the web for 145.- (tax incl.) ....Facom would be 78.- ...

The older 5060 model had a list price of 105,30, the push through type 65,60 + tax (2004/5 catalog) , the same model from WGB i found in the net for 50.- included.
The Facom ratchet looks nice as usual, not as shiny as the new 1/4" to 1/2" ratchets but nicely finished. The ratcheting is ok too, and the price...

Originally Posted by Chreese

Hm, so I might get the Facom J.153A (3/8") or the S.153A (1/2").
Snap-on is probably too expensive for me and my needs. Besides, I don't even know if a Snap-on dealer exists in my neck of the woods.
Well, I guess what we need is a combination of the Gedore 1993 GU-10 XL and the 1993 GU-3. If the 1993 GU-10 XL were a bit shorter and less expensive I would seriously contemplate it.

yeah probably that would be the wisest decision and the most economical to go with the Facom ratchet. Maybe the head of the GU-10 fits onto the GU-3 body ??

Looks a bit strange but i would like to check out this Stahlwille ratchet:

Originally Posted by Chreese

Congrats on the Würth screwdrivers. I like them. How much did you pay?
My latest additions to my screwdriver collection:

For a 5 piece set i paid 39.- € + tax (List 72.-) so i bought a slotted/PH set and a slotted/PZ set + individual drivers to have all sizes. A couple of weeks ago they were on sale for 29.- €/set + tax .....
But I think I`m done now with drivers except some Walter Schröder screwdrivers and some older stuff for my private museum

I like them... Felo ergonomic "Ergonic" handle but with striking cap included (exclusively for Wurth):




They also had these exotic black finished wrenches on sale a couple of month ago:




I have the Black Cat mats in my tool box and on top of my welder, awesome stuff, but to fill 13 drawers with 60 cm x 65 cm pieces will be expensive so i have to wait a bit since it`s not on top of my wishlist... ( slow speed die grinder, straight line sander, Berner "Sandy", Schröder screwdrivers, 3/4" stuff ............................)

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

Of course, I'll post pics of the pliers but that will take time. Estimated delivery time is eight weeks and the pliers will be shipped to my dealer in Bavaria which I visit only a few times every year.

Maybe I'll decide to buy the Facom. It seems to be one of the most reasonably priced 3/4" ratchets with a comfortable handle. The Beta 928/55 (72 teeth) costs even a couple of Euros less.

Originally Posted by Monte

yeah probably that would be the wisest decision and the most economical to go with the Facom ratchet. Maybe the head of the GU-10 fits onto the GU-3 body ??

Even if the heads were interchangeable then I'd have to find a "solution" with Gedore because buying both ratchets is definitely not an option for me.

Thanks for the information about the Würth screwdrivers. Unfortunately, I'm not a Würth customer, yet. Those Würth list prices are somehow ridiculous in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Monte

But I think I`m done now with drivers except some Walter Schröder screwdrivers and some older stuff for my private museum

Oh yes, Walter Schröder:



Any alternatives to the Black Cat mats? I stumbled across an Ikea catalogue lately and found mats for kitchen cabinet drawers. They are way cheaper than the Black Cat mats but then again I don't think we can expect the same level of quality and durability.

Chreese

[dede2897234]

Chreese,

You purchased which model numbers of IPS pliers? Which company did you buy the IPS pliers from and had them shipped to your Bavarian tool dealer? Can you please include the web addresses of both companies involved in your IPS pliers purchase? During the summer, a few GarageJournal members (including myself), purchased the IPS HLB-300 and HLS-300 slip-joint pliers from "The Wood Works" in Sydney, Australia. The GarageJournal thread can be found here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...emium+Japanese. Once "The Wood Works" received shipment of the IPS pliers from his contact in Japan (it took between 2 to 3 weeks), we received our pliers from Australia in only a week via international air mail.

Thanks,

Dave

[Chreese]

Servus, Dave,

It's the IPS HLB-300 and HLS-300 pliers you mentioned.
After the messages on this board had brought them to my attention, I tried to find a dealer in Europe. I found out that Dick (Germany) carries IPS Soft Touch pliers and emailed them about the availability of the HLB-300 and the HLS-300. Dick confirmed that they can order them for me. I don't know Dick's supplier. There are several stores in Germany that offer Dick products. One of them is Zellmer. I finally ordered the pliers via Zellmer. (I buy (woodworking) tools from Zellmer from time to time and a buddy of mine is a regular customer. As Zellmer is a good company to deal with I decided to go with them.)

Greetings from Europe,

Chreese

[Monte]

@chreese:

ok i wait for the pics !

yeah i probably also would go with the facom, i don`t like the new handles of the Beta ratchets with the glossy plastic and rubber. I like the direction selector though...

Originally Posted by Chreese

Even if the heads were interchangeable then I'd have to find a "solution" with Gedore because buying both ratchets is definitely not an option for me..

just kidding

Originally Posted by Chreese

Thanks for the information about the Würth screwdrivers. Unfortunately, I'm not a Würth customer, yet. Those Würth list prices are somehow ridiculous in my opinion.

you can always try to negotiate with the sales rep

Originally Posted by Chreese

Oh yes, Walter Schröder:

these are what i`m talking about ! It looks like a almost complete set, PH, PZ, slotted, hex, torx and nut drivers ... sweet ! Factory direct or from a Austrian dealer ??
Do you have a pic of a schröder driver with round blade and hex bolster (the hex part) ?
thx in advance

i`m checking the ikea catalog right now ! thx !

[Monte]

ps: we also need more pics of the box and what`s inside

[dede2897234]

Chreese,

Thanks for sharing the website links for Dick and Zellmer. On Dick's website, I performed a search on "pliers". Besides seeing a few models of IPS pliers, Dick also carries pliers made by Keiba, MTC, and Yattoko.


Chreese, Monte, or Superautobacs, do you own any pliers made by the Japanese manufacturers Keiba, MTC, and/or Yattoko? How is the quality of their pliers in terms of strength, construction, and craftsmanship? Do you own or know of any other models of Japanese manufactured pliers that are unique and highly desirable such as IPS' HLB-300 and HLS-300 pliers?

Thanks,

Dave

[Monte]

@dede2897234

Superautobacs has some.
I personally don`t have any, but some are already on my wishlist: this one, this, this, this, and maybe this one and the extra long IPS pliers.

unique pliers like these (i like them ) from Engineer ?

ok not from Japan but some are unique: click (the double bent one)

unique design from KTC: click (i want one )

these are odd too click

these from Keiba are cute


They have pliers but nothing spectacular just exotic
http://www.fujiya-kk.com/
http://www.tsunoda-japan.com/catalog/index.html
http://www.muromoto.co.jp/
http://www.hanazonotool.co.jp/en/index.htm

Many are unique but i don`t know if highly desirable

[dede2897234]

Monte,

Thanks for posting the links to various plier designs by the well know Japanese hand tool manufacturers. In the future, I will be looking into purchasing the Engineer PZ-58 screw removal pliers.


I noticed in the first 2 posted links that Hitachi steel is used to manufacture the combination pliers produced by both Keiba and MTC. Do you know what Hitachi steel is? Is it superior to any other steel types used to manufacture current pliers?


Dave

[Chreese]

Servus, folks,

Originally Posted by Monte

you can always try to negotiate with the sales rep

Do you buy Würth at a local store or do you have "your" sales rep?

Originally Posted by Monte

these are what i`m talking about ! It looks like a almost complete set, PH, PZ, slotted, hex, torx and nut drivers ... sweet ! Factory direct or from a Austrian dealer ??

I bought the Walter Schröder screwdrivers some years back directly from the company. No problem at all, just drop them a line or call them. Initially, I thought I had bought a complete set but later on I realized that some sizes (Torx 40, for example) where "missing". Luckily, I had purchased a number of screwdrivers at a close-out-special in the meanwhile and as a consequence, I was able to complete the screwdriver assortment for the toolbox.

Yes, I promise to post pics of the box and the stuff it contains but again, that will take time. (No digital camera and no shop access at the moment.)
The pic posted above is the only one of the Schröder screwdrivers I currently have. I took it months ago and found it yesterday on the HDD.

Originally Posted by dede2897234

Chreese, Monte, or Superautobacs, do you own any pliers made by the Japanese manufacturers Keiba, MTC, and/or Yattoko?

Not yet but I ordered this one, this one and this one.

Have a nice day,

Chreese

[superautobacs]

Dave,

Here's two links that show some photos that I took of my Keiba, MTC, and Engineer pliers: link and link
I have a pair of red handled Keiba lineman's pliers (not pictured) that I've owned from the 80's and they're still in good working order.

Keiba has come up with their own type of steel called Marutoloy, so I don't know why Dick's website mentions the use of Hitachi steel.
Here's some information directly from Keiba: http://www.keiba-tool.com/seihin/htm/56_2.htm


I think Monte covered all the pliers maker in Japan from a few posts above, except for one! 3 Peaks ,

[superautobacs]

Originally Posted by Monte

What I find odd about Beta ratchets is that the square drive is chromed. I usually associate chromed square drives with cheap Chinese or Indian made tools.

[Vinko]

I posted these in another thread a while ago, but thought them appropriate here too:

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

What brand is your drawer cabinet?
And are you familiar with any alternatives to Lista? How does KLW compare to Lista? KLW seems to cost a tad less.

Do you have a drill press? If yes, how about some details?

Thanks.

Have a good weekend,

Chreese

[Monte]

Originally Posted by dede2897234

Monte,
I noticed in the first 2 posted links that Hitachi steel is used to manufacture the combination pliers produced by both Keiba and MTC. Do you know what Hitachi steel is? Is it superior to any other steel types used to manufacture current pliers?
Dave

Like superautobacs posted on the Keiba website they say that they get their steel from Kobe steel http://www.kobelco.co.jp/english/index.html
If you type "Marutoloy" or "CrV70C" i only find infos in japanese and no info on the Kobe website. So probably Marutoloy just a name Keiba invented for this series of pliers. If "CrV70C" translates into CrV (Chrom vanadium) and "70C" into the german version "C70" (see pic) then it would mean that they use carbon/mild steel with 0,70% carbon and <1% manganese.

Hitachi is also a steel company http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/index.html like "Krupp" or "Saar Stahl" where Knipex sources their steel from for example.

Originally Posted by Chreese

Do you buy Würth at a local store or do you have "your" sales rep?

yes theres a dude who calls me every month, in the store i get no good prices.

Yes i have the Schröder catalog and CD too. I`ll order a couple of them ...

ps: Do you know who makes a screwdriver with a hex/blade design like this ?

Originally Posted by superautobacs

What I find odd about Beta ratchets is that the square drive is chromed. I usually associate chromed square drives with cheap Chinese or Indian made tools.

yeah that`s what i think too......maybe they are from there who knows.... Pliers are from "abroad" i heard and take a look here and then here and here and then here. I also doubt that these Beta pliers are italian maybe chineseian ?


@Vinko:
very cool !! I`m envious !! I wish i had a cold saw


@chreese:
There is no brand name on or in the cabinet so i don`t know. There are a couple of manufacturers besides Lista like Bedrunka-hirth, Lokoma, Kind and Rau. I probably would buy whatever i find at ebay or in the newspaper. If you take one of these brand name products no matter what name it should be ok i guess if its made for industrial/workshop use.

a locking device which i made (had no key for the original lock)



the inside:




yes i have a drill press, it`s a Flott TB 10 with 13mm Röhm chuck. Picked it up for 240 €. It works nice and runs smooth even after 22 years ...no wobble/play in the spindle like you have even with new import drills. But for larger diameters like 11-13mm i would recommend a heavier drill press (for metal work), it works but the machine starts to vibrate.





Some pics of drill presses which are currently manufactured here:

My dream machine from Alzmetall



Gillardon



Flott



Maxion



Solid

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

Originally Posted by Monte

ps: Do you know who makes a screwdriver with a hex/blade design like this ?

What exactly is it that you are interested in? A screwdriver with a round blade and hex bolster as you mentioned above? Schröder definitely has them and Witte apparently too. I can't tell the brand of the pictured screwdriver though. The handle reminds me of the black Witte in the middle of the upper row in this pic.



I'll get back to you after dinner.

Chreese

[Monte]

It´s a Hazet screwdriver, i just try to figure out who is the manufacturer, since everybody (or most) manufacturers make the hex part different i thought maybe you have a idea. I have mostly hex blade drivers. Some hex/blade contructions are 2 piece , some one piece forged into the blade like the Witte (Schröder too, at least the "Connex" brand ones i saw yesterday) or welded onto like the PB Baumann.

Here are some different versions:

Wera



Felo



Wurth (Felo)




PB Baumann




Witte




ps:
The Hazet drivers from above:

[dede2897234]

<< Originally Posted by Monte:

Like superautobacs posted on the Keiba website they say that they get their steel from Kobe steel http://www.kobelco.co.jp/english/index.html
If you type "Marutoloy" or "CrV70C" i only find infos in japanese and no info on the Kobe website. So probably Marutoloy just a name Keiba invented for this series of pliers. If "CrV70C" translates into CrV (Chrom vanadium) and "70C" into the german version "C70" (see pic) then it would mean that they use carbon/mild steel with 0,70% carbon and <1% manganese. >>


Monte,

Is CrV70c a strong tool steel? How do you determine if a specific tool steel is a strong steel? Do you determine the strength of a tool steel by looking at the percentages of carbon and manganese present in it?


Thanks,

Dave

[dede2897234]

Originally Posted by Monte

It´s a Hazet screwdriver, i just try to figure out who is the manufacturer, since everybody (or most) manufacturers make the hex part different i thought maybe you have a idea. I have mostly hex blade drivers. Some hex/blade contructions are 2 piece , some one piece forged into the blade like the Witte (Schröder too, at least the "Connex" brand ones i saw yesterday) or welded onto like the PB Baumann.

Here are some different versions:

Wera



Felo



Wurth (Felo)




PB Baumann




Witte




ps:
The Hazet drivers from above:

Monte,

Which hex/blade design due you prefer in terms of strength and durability (ex: 2 piece, forged, or welded)? Which hex/blade design is more prone to failure?


Thanks,

Dave

[superautobacs]

Originally Posted by dede2897234

Monte,

Is CrV70c a strong tool steel? How do you determine if a specific tool steel is a strong steel? Do you determine the strength of a tool steel by looking at the percentages of carbon and manganese present in it?


Thanks,

Dave

If I may...
Although I'm no metallurgist, nor do I have any sort of engineering background, I do understand that the heat treating process (annealing/tempering) IS what largely determines the property or "character" of an alloy steel.