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Old 12-12-2011, 03:22 PM   #1161
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Default Re: Grunge Garage

Not a good idea, Rich H; burning moldy stuff or things that are painted or anything containing plastic (buttons on clothing, for example) is a very bad idea. Also don't want to build up creosote in the chimney depending on the type of wood being burned. All this could create other problems. Also, most fireplaces don't heat a house; they just suck air out of it to keep the fire going (unless it's a real Rumford fireplace like we have in our home -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumford_fireplace).

Chris
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:13 PM   #1162
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Default Re: Grunge Garage

and if the chimney haven't been checked properly the risk of fire in the chimney...
and burning stuff like boxes makes the risk of an fire then real wood as small debris might fly up in the chimney and start a fire...

besides where i live burning trash is illegal..
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:26 PM   #1163
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Default Re: Grunge Garage

OK,
Not as much progress as I wanted for today, but a good amount anyway. Trying to get the hood to open on the Astro Van tonight. Not any success. Stairs are stuffed with things that are going away but there is lots of empty floor space in the bedroom. A couple of piles still to pick up and dresser tops to remove stuff from, but still much much better. See photos. More to come after a couple days of improvements including clearing stairs.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:31 PM   #1164
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Default Re: Grunge Garage

I see progress.

Thanks for posting and keep on going! I know you can get that room cleaned and tidy in 2010!
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:33 PM   #1165
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Default Re: Grunge Garage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketdaemon View Post
and if the chimney haven't been checked properly the risk of fire in the chimney...
and burning stuff like boxes makes the risk of an fire then real wood as small debris might fly up in the chimney and start a fire...

besides where i live burning trash is illegal..
I would, except.........
It makes the house colder, not warmer (Except radiant heat right in front).
Don't have good access yet.
It's a full time job keeping it going and removing ash.
It turns the house into a big smoker.
Don't know the creosote situation.
Throwing out is faster.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:49 PM   #1166
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Definitely a good idea to not use the fireplace for any kind of burning. Rocketdaemon is correct about a chimney inspection (and any repairs needed) before use. The house gets colder because the fire is using air in the house for combustion. The side facing the fireplace will be very hot and the back side will be cold. That's how a regular fireplace works. The off-gassing of burning material is a big problem as well. If you remember it smoking when you last used it, the damper may not be set correctly. Also, make sure it's closed now - if the damper is broken, cover the front of the fireplace to control cold air infiltration and warm air escaping.

Our Rumford-style fireplace can heat the entire first floor (2100+sf) of our 100+ year old house which has an open floor plan -- only the bathroom and small (12' x 12') bedroom can be closed off and we cover the opening of the front and back staircases (no doors like in Bill's house) to keep the heat downstairs if we use the fireplace.

Good progress, Bill. Keep it going.

Chris

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Old 12-12-2011, 07:10 PM   #1167
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Default Re: Grunge Garage

Looks like real progress, assuming that all the garbage is out of the house and not just moved to another room. You need to to get rid of those carpets and scrub your floors. The carpets are no doubt filled with dust mites and god knows what else.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:36 PM   #1168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsam View Post
Looks like real progress, assuming that all the garbage is out of the house and not just moved to another room. You need to to get rid of those carpets and scrub your floors. The carpets are no doubt filled with dust mites and god knows what else.
Carpets will eventually get tossed. For now they are a little padding and insulation for the feet.

Remaining 2 clothes bins will go away.
African Grey cage will go to living room.
Room will be scrubbed and painted including trim.
Floors will be refinished.
New drapes and curtains will be installed.
Feather tic and wool blankets and new sheets and pillow cases on the bed.
Bird cage with Cockatiel will be re-homed.
Cabinet under wildow will go elsewhere.
Dressing table will be cleaned and a small table lamp put on it.
Speakers will be repositioned.
Stereo components and TV will be on a rolling stand.
Bed will have a head and foot board and maybe a canopy
Door will get hung and finished.
Door to closet will get hung and finished.
Closet will get light and switch.
New area rug will be installed.

Hows that for plans?
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:17 PM   #1169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane4562 View Post
Every journey starts with a first step. You have started, so keep going. Keep showing us you progress and that should help with the motivation.


It's funny...I thought I would get a big dose of satisfaction. Cause this work is dirty, filthy, picky and strenuous. The progress is agonizingly slow. It is a LOT less fun than going out and buying stuff. That is WAY more fun. But after the newness wears off on a purchase there is a panic because the place is even more filled up. After the misery of the work of cleaning up there isn't a big wave of excitement, but rather a low level contentment. Like this is how it should be. And also a growing hunger for more. More space. More organization. Cleaner surfaces. A simpler environment. A more focused space. I keep looking at things and asking myself if life would be more enjoyable without them. Could I do without them?
Just picked through and cleaned up another pile. One more big one in the corner by the closet and the floor will be clean.
Got Julie ready for her lunch with the girls. Wrapped presents. She's taking a bath. Time for rest. I've been going to bed a lot earlier (Tired) and getting up early. Big change. Thinking what to do tomorrow...
Later...
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:12 PM   #1170
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EDIT: I've re-read this and it seems a bit harsh. However, please take it as coming from someone who is very concerned about Bill's health. Thanks



Quote:
Originally Posted by bczygan View Post
Carpets will eventually get tossed. For now they are a little padding and insulation for the feet.

Remaining 2 clothes bins will go away.
African Grey cage will go to living room.
Room will be scrubbed and painted including trim.
Floors will be refinished.
New drapes and curtains will be installed.
Feather tic and wool blankets and new sheets and pillow cases on the bed.
Bird cage with Cockatiel will be re-homed.
Cabinet under wildow will go elsewhere.
Dressing table will be cleaned and a small table lamp put on it.
Speakers will be repositioned.
Stereo components and TV will be on a rolling stand.
Bed will have a head and foot board and maybe a canopy
Door will get hung and finished.
Door to closet will get hung and finished.
Closet will get light and switch.
New area rug will be installed.

Hows that for plans?
= Not serious.

1. Remove all extremely hazardous waste from basement
2. Get basic plumbing so toilets can be flushed and sinks can be used
3. Install basic house furnace
4. Rent the actual dumpster

=Serious.

Bill, those are noble plans, but I see a theme that I've seen for a long time in this thread. You want all your readers to be excited about your progress, but it is my opinion that you are putting off the things that really need to be done. Bill. You are talking about moving speakers and hanging curtains.... Reality check: you have no heat, no water, and raw sewage/mold in your basement.

I understand that these little things can help keep you encouraged and make you feel like things are improving, but putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound won't keep someone from dying.

Most of what you wrote down are finishing touches that you do to a house...when it has heat, running water, and no raw sewage. Besides, how are you going to refinish a floor when 1/2 the floor is still covered in stuff?

For the life of me...I cannot understand why you would focus on such trivial things while you still have life-threatening conditions in the house. Is this denial? Are you going to go down to the basement then walk on your new carpet?

I think your heart is in the right place, I really do. And I think you've made positive steps...but I don't think you are serious. This is what you are showing us - and this is your choice.

Selling stuff you absolutely will not use in 20 years so that you can call a professional help to remove a life threatening condition and get plumbing in the house = serious.

Bumming water (not a free resource) off a neighbor and moving stuff around in the house and putting a light switch in your closet = not serious.

Bill, how would your neighbor feel if he read this thread and saw you hanging curtains instead of getting yourself in a position to be independent of his resources? You are wanting us to be happy about this. Sorry but...I really don't think I can be

Maybe this thread would be better off in a different location/forum? I know you initially started out talking about your garage, but now this thread has nothing to do with the garage. I know most/all the guys here are rooting for you but this really goes beyond our abilities - there is no way that we can win this one for you.

I get it...that this is not something that can happen overnight and just throwing everything in a dumpster won't solve the root issues. But, how old are you? How many years do you want to continue drawing out the process instead of living the rest of your life, a new life? And while everyday the spores and mold and raw sewage and mice feces are doing their best to shorten your life through gradual degradation of your health.

This is just my opinion/viewpoint, but I see this ending two different ways:

Scenario 1:

In the end you decide that a total lifestyle change cannot happen. As you've said many, many times in your GJ thread, you just 'can't bring yourself to do it'. For you, it is just too hard to get rid of everything, the sentimental things, the things you want to use 'one day' and start over. That one day never comes. It is just too much. You decide that as long as you are okay to throw away things here and there, that is good enough, and it makes you feel justified to hold on to everything else. You continue to post on GJ for a while about some minor clean up you've done, all while ignoring/denying the monster that lurks below, where the true roots of the issue are. As it turns out, the basement never gets the sewage removed. You never 'refinish the floor' because you knew all along that was never going to happen. You're neighbor you are bumming water off of moves away and you are forced to collect rain water and ask other neighbors for their help. Someone decides to report you after they get a glimpse of the living conditions. Some people stop by your house and threaten to condemn the building and evict you. You decide to clean up everything that is on the outside of the property to make it appear that things are different, but you just took all that stuff and loaded it in the house and basement. That holds them off for a while. However, the years spent in the filth, mold, sewage, etc have taken their toll and you end up with serious health ailments that you are unable to recover from. Years are taken off your life. The end comes. Someone discovers what has happened in the house, then makes a report. The cite/police check it out. Once they wrap up, the city condemns your house as hazardous and the entire thing is bulldozed. This becomes your legacy. In the end, nothing really ever changed. All was meant well, but what little was improved turned out to be a drop of water in the ocean.

Scenario 2:

You finally wake up. You ask yourself one day "what the hell am I doing?" and realize that something extremely drastic needs to happen, otherwise the rest of your days will be spent in filth and disease. You call up ever single person that was willing to give you a hand and ask for their help. You decide that you are above possessions owning you. You decide things will be different from now on and take matters into your own hands.You get rid of every single thing that every common person sees as trash. Next, you lose the animals/birds/etc. You finally get the dumpster and clear out everything that would get in the way of a professional hazard crew. Next, you have a good friend from GJ come in to evaluate every single item of value that you can sell to help pay for professionals to come in. Then, the crew comes in, rips out all the feces filled carpet, completely guts the basement and disinfects the entire place. A plumber comes in and finally gets you running water. You go thank your water-providing neighbor and tell him he can have your drill press. Then you get an HVAC guy out and get some heat going. Every single item that represents the 'old you' gets tossed and you learn to live below your means, with a single closet for you and one for your wife. You suddenly realize that awful cough you used to have is gone. Oh, and your picking up your new garage flooring. You start eating healthy, giving up soda and other sugars, and your health drastically improves. You add years to your life from not having to breathe mold spores any more and the remainder of your life is enjoyed, with your wife, a single new pet, and a nice clean garage and house.

Bill, I don't know if I am speaking for a lot of us or just for me but I think this entirely sums up how I feel about this entire project:

It's time to get serious, or get out.

As someone that considers you a good 'internet' friend, I cannot just stand by and flippantly give you a 'thumbs up' when I know that the issues you are neglecting are killing you.

I just cannot bring myself to do it, Bill.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:21 AM   #1171
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Red Leader,
Thank you for your concern, but I am not ignoring the SERIOUS problems.
The list above for the M bedroom, is a "FAR in the future" list.
As soon as I finish getting the last pile of drek off the M bedroom floor I will turn to getting stuff off the stairs and out of the house.
Then the kitchen so food prep will be easier.

The problem is that daily life is still difficult because the house is still too packed with stuff. Just getting out the back door is still a matter of climbing over stuff in the kitchen.

Here is how it was when I started:
Food prep meant climbing over piles in the living room to get at the fridge and finding paper plates in bins. Then emptying the microwave that was used as a cupboard, to heat up food. Clothes to wear were piled in piles, clean and dirty. Had to sort through them to find something to wear. It was time consuming.

The sheer volume of stuff made it a solid packed structure, wall to wall and ceiling to floor, with NO access to any room except a 3x3 space between the microwave and fridge in the living room, a narrow path up the stairs into the M bedroom, a 3x3 space by the bed and access into the bathroom.

I know this thread started with a totally unnecessary cleanup of the garage. The garage, like all the other rooms could have been left "as is" until the basement was addressed. That is how most people would attack the project, but I had to get myself started. Yes, I have been eating my dessert before my peas and carrots. Part of it IS avoidance, no doubt. But part is also getting up a head of steam before tackling the worst parts.

Cleaning out the spare bedroom and setting up closets for Julie have been a real benefit in getting her on board. This morning she commented on how great it was to just go in there to get clothes. And all her shoes are in there now too. Now the bedroom is a usable space.
Each room is becoming what it is supposed to be.

The next priority after the stairs will be the kitchen.
As soon as it is operable preparing meals will be less difficult.
THEN I will attack the basement.

That is the plan.

For right now, the basement is not getting any worse. It is sealed off from the rest of the house. It poses no immediate health risk.

Sewer, water and heat:
The sewer has always worked. We had a flooded basement that has since drained. Toilets flush and go down the sewer. We now have a temporary water hookup from a neighbor. We have installed a temporary gas fired heater and augment it with electric space heaters when needed.

When the kitchen is usable I will make the basement the next step. It will require complete emptying and power washing and then I will have access to furnace and water heater for permanent repairs.

I know this plan is not what some others would follow. You may not consider it radical enough or fast enough. But it is my plan and I am following it. It's working so far to make good progress with not too many setbacks. I will continue to post for those people that want to know what is going on. It is becoming less necessary for me because I can SEE the progress here.

Today is for filling trash cans. Got to fill as many as possible.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:36 AM   #1172
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I was going to post yesterday, had a long response typed up and got booted from the internet But then again maybe it was a good thing, IDK. I was glad Red Leader posted before I did though so I could read his response, three times I was then able to read your response Bill

I can see both sides of both responses.

Red Leader.....it is aggravating for you, because you don't have control. You KNOW the way things should be done because you would do them that way.

Bill....It's aggravating for you, because you feel a need to do it your way, people are hounding you to do it a different way, you are making progress, but not fast enough, so now it is starting to seem like work.

Bill....what RL wrote is not just what he feels though. The first scenario is EXACTLY what will happen. The second scenario is what WE all HOPE happens. It is entirely up to you. We have no choice over the matter, only you do. You're a very intelligent person up to a certain point. I'd say when it comes to most things, from what I see, you are probably more intelligent than I am. I screwed around in school, didn't like to study, absolutely hated English, hated Math, despised History. I graduated, but barely, so I had to work all of my life. But one thing I have learned throughout life is that I pissed away a lot of it and now I want to live. I have slowly started changing my diet. Slowly started changing my other habits to the point that I have became sort of a germiphobe. I know what it's like to have to do things myself and not have friends to help out. I've sit and cried before just wishing someone would take it all away, the work, the pain, everything, just so I could be like others. It was then that I found out all I had to do was ask. There are many out there that will help if you just don't push them away. There are friends, family members, professionals, that will help if you ask.

Bill, if you walk over the top of something in the house for one week to get into another room then there are two problems. One... is that what you walk over is trash, the other is that someone is too lazy to pick it up and throw it out. Nothing else. If Julie fell over, you surely wouldn't let her lay there for a week. Reason being is that you care about her. Now if something else falls, someone lets it lay there. Reason being is that it has no useful purpose and someone is lazy.

Do a little test tonight. Look at one huge pile in a room, any room, that has been sitting for more than a month and that you have walked over or around. Both you and Julie do this. Then ask each other what is exactly in the pile. Whatever each of you can't answer, throw it away. If you can only answer what is on top, throw the complete pile away except for what you could answer. It has served no useful purpose and may just open your eyes a little. Force yourself to throw it away even if after you start tossing you say " I was looking for that" because you didn't remember it was there in the first place.

And Bill....there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with sitting down and crying because you can't achieve what you want to achieve in the amount of time you want to achieve it in. Ask for the help that you need from the friends that you have, then live the life that you want to live. You and Julie have quite a few years to go together. I really don't think that either of you want to read the others Obituary in the newspaper and then the writeup on one of the pages about how the other one passed

Good Luck!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:18 AM   #1173
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Kevin,
I know you and Red Leader and everyone here have Julie and my best interests at heart and that touches me deeply. I know I have mental blocks to face and work through. So does Julie. We have to push harder because it is the eleventh hour. I have been making some basic changes in my life here. And helping Julie do the same. Tomorrow morning we go to the dentist for her first visit. I have been working fairly steadily each day since last week. I now go to b ed at 9-10 and get up at 6 or earlier, rather than my former habit of stay up til 2 or 3 and sleep til 9 or 10. I worked all weekend which is a change. Julie is astounded.
I need to find the recipe to make this permanent. I think I have it. When a room is cleaned up as much as the M bedroom has been, it gives me back the total use of the room and I find it very satisfying. I will NOT give it back to clutter. I am finding myself picking up little things and putting them away. Removing trash items immediately. It was too much work to let it go to hell again. Julie left 2 hangers on the bed this morning. I HAD to put them away. I'm afraid it is going to be this way from now on. I am going to have to get used to having this fired up feeling in my belly.
Kevin,
I have cried in the past, because it was all too impossible. And then I spent years depressed and immobile and avoiding it. I pissed away much of my life. But now I'm pissed that I let this happen, caused it actually. I am going to work myself out of this. Actually, I AM working my way out of it.
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:52 AM   #1174
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Are you implying that the M Bedroom is now clean enough that you can now move on to the kitchen?



Quote:
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When a room is cleaned up as much as the M bedroom has been, it gives me back the total use of the room and I find it very satisfying.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:55 AM   #1175
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Are you implying that the M Bedroom is now clean enough that you can now move on to the kitchen?
One big pile in the corner at the closet, then empty the stairway into trash for tomorrow, then YES! So I should be on the Kitchen Thursday afternoon.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:03 AM   #1176
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So if you refer to pic # 2 posted yesterday, the birdcage and all that stuff behind it are now gone and put in their proper place, right? I am asking to determine if by clean you mean clean and orderly with the simplistic vision you have mentioned before.

Thanks,
Marc
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:20 AM   #1177
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Good question Phxphenom. Someone with OCD may become bogged at this point where a task is not 100%. But at 90% it is good enough at this point to move to the Kitchen. So Bill you should have stated:
Quote:
YES! So I should be on the Kitchen TUESDAY afternoon.
Just a little push from me. Get that pile taken care of!
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:22 AM   #1178
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double post, sorry
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:25 AM   #1179
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Quote:
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I see progress.

Thanks for posting and keep on going! I know you can get that room cleaned and tidy in 2010!
agree, 2010 would have been a good target
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:59 AM   #1180
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Bill, I challenge you to be working on the kitchen by 1200hrs, 14 Dec 2011, local time.
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