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Old 12-15-2011, 04:50 PM   #1
Jim Johnstone
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Default Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

I'm restoring an old Buffalo drill press (actually 3, but I'm only keeping 1 ), it has an MT2 spindle and drill chuck, but I am wondering about getting an ER series collet holder with an MT2 shank, with tang, thinking that I could also use it in the tail stock of a lathe in the future. Does anyone use this type of setup in a drill press, or do you just stick to a Jacob's chuck?

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Old 12-15-2011, 05:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

I've not seen it done. If I read this right your proposing to use ER collet to hold drill bits for drilling? It should work but means much more setup time as ER collets had a limited range and you would be changing collets a lot. I also see no reason to have an ER in the tail stock of the lathe. Both of these setups have been using Jacobs type chucks for years. Now it your thinking on doing some milling on the DP then your going to have to figure out a way to restrain the MT shank in the spindle.

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Old 12-15-2011, 05:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

No, no milling, just drilling. The only reason I`m wondering about this, is that I obtained a bunch of tools from a retired machinist and got a handful of ER collets in the lot. The only time I can think of seeing a drill press with collets, was for a tapping head to hold the tap as tight as possible, but figured it would be worth looking into for drilling, as I supposed it would be theoretically more accurate than a Jacob`s chuck, in particular if I was reaming on the drill press or lathe.

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I've not seen it done. If I read this right your proposing to use ER collet to hold drill bits for drilling? It should work but means much more setup time as ER collets had a limited range and you would be changing collets a lot. I also see no reason to have an ER in the tail stock of the lathe. Both of these setups have been using Jacobs type chucks for years. Now it your thinking on doing some milling on the DP then your going to have to figure out a way to restrain the MT shank in the spindle.

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Old 12-15-2011, 10:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

I haven't seen it done either but hey if you already have the tooling why not give it a try. If it works out then you could send me a MT#2 Jacobs chuck for my "new" Rockwell 15-665.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

Well then if you have all the the stuff then go for it. It should work just fine.

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Old 12-16-2011, 01:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

will work fine but will take longer to set up
collets in general will hold better and 'true-er' that a chuck

I would still have a chuck to use too

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Old 12-16-2011, 02:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

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will work fine but will take longer to set up
collets in general will hold better and 'true-er' that a chuck

I would still have a chuck to use too

bob
I agree, I won't be getting rid of my chuck, I'm thinking more for small bits that are hard to get a good purchase on in a chuck, and reamers for accuracy.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

If you are planning on using tiny bits in a standard drill press you are going to be having other issues aside from grip range of a drill chuck, namely not enough speed and too little feel.

Honestly if you feel your chuck is not accurate, get another drill chuck. Using ER, TG or other collets is possible but a poor choice for most work. If you had a production job where you drilled the same hole perhaps you could rationalize the use. On a general duty shop drill press you will go crazy doing something like drilling, reaming and, countersinking.

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Old 12-16-2011, 11:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that reamers are made to float a bit in order to center up on a hole. I've been told this is one reason for their length vs. a regular drill bit of the same size. This means the ER collet setup wouldn't be any better for this than a good chuck. I could, however, see it being really nice to use with a spotting drill for being as accurate as reasonably possible.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

A friend of mine uses ER collets in a Smithy mill drill because it gives him a couple more inches of useable Z travel.
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

A collet will also hold a center drill much more securely with less runout than a chuck. The MT2 in your drill press is designed to do much more than hold a chuck.

If you decide to try the ER collets, you don't need spindle lock for the ER collet adapter if your's has a wrench slot in the adapter body. Of course you will need the appropriate wrench.

Otherwise, you need to figure a way to lock the drill press spindle to change collets-- a major difference from using a chuck. On a mill you would use a spindle lock, and it would be good idea fab one for your drill press. You might get away with using a low gear or, if you have access and the spindle is driven from a drive pulley, holding the spindle pulley when changing collets.

Except for more precise work, you will find that changing collets for each drill bit size will get old quickly.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:17 AM   #12
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

I have used mine in the lathe for drill bit that wont fit my 5/8 chuck, and it works great.
As for using them in the drill press, as said above it will take longer to set up and have you seen the ER32 collet torque needed, it's 100 ft/lbs so you either need a fixture to hold the chuck, of do it in the vise with soft jaws. Both of these means taking it out for each bit change which will add to the time.
http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/torque_chart.htm
Unless you needed it for a drill bit that your chuck wont fit, I really don't see any advantage.

In the lathe you can either use them in the head stock or tail stock. They are a good system collet for the head stock, but you are better off with a collet chuck that bolts to a back plate, so you can still put bars through the headstock. I am pretty sure CDCO tools have them and I think it is RDG in the UK have them as well. For small stuff the MT collet chuck if fine and is what I have and use.

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Old 12-17-2011, 08:48 AM   #13
Jim Johnstone
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

Having one setup holding a center drill was one other thing I had considered, then I can just grab the wedge, and knock out the jacobs chuck, pop in the collet holder with center drill and start my holes. That would also be useful for drilling center holes on the lathe.

Either way, it seems that it could be a good addition to a jacobs chucks, but not a replacement for it.

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A collet will also hold a center drill much more securely with less runout than a chuck. The MT2 in your drill press is designed to do much more than hold a chuck.

If you decide to try the ER collets, you don't need spindle lock for the ER collet adapter if your's has a wrench slot in the adapter body. Of course you will need the appropriate wrench.

Otherwise, you need to figure a way to lock the drill press spindle to change collets-- a major difference from using a chuck. On a mill you would use a spindle lock, and it would be good idea fab one for your drill press. You might get away with using a low gear or, if you have access and the spindle is driven from a drive pulley, holding the spindle pulley when changing collets.

Except for more precise work, you will find that changing collets for each drill bit size will get old quickly.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:53 PM   #14
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

Get a nice Super Chuck or an Albrect hand chuck and call it a day. It's a drill press not a jig borer.

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Old 12-18-2011, 12:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

You are exactly right A Pmech........I use a drill press only as a last resort. If a good ball bearing Jacobs or an Albrect won't run true, trust me it's the drill press. I have cnc equipment, ER collets don't run that close either, especially the DA type. As far as reamers go, they rarely run true, you almost always have to convince them to run true.
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

Well then I guess my best bet it to look into a better quality chuck and MT2 arbor. My existing chuck has all the runout, I checked the Morse Taper socket, and it was MUCH tighter than when I checked the chuck with a ground ejector pin in it.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

Sometimes, the runout can be in the adapter, or in the Jacobs taper. It can also be due to a worn chuck.

Still, .003" to .005" runout is perfectly acceptable on a drill press.
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

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Originally Posted by A_Pmech View Post
Sometimes, the runout can be in the adapter, or in the Jacobs taper. It can also be due to a worn chuck.

Still, .003" to .005" runout is perfectly acceptable on a drill press.
How about 0.0015" in the MT socket, and 0.025" in the chuck? See why I want to replace the chuck?

I still will likely knock apart the adapter and chuck body, possibly even tear down the chuck itself and see if I can true it up to an acceptable level, but ultimately I'd like to replace it with something better, like a Ball Bearing super chuck, or the Rohm chucks we use at work.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

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How about 0.0015" in the MT socket, and 0.025" in the chuck?
Hmm...

Kill that thing with fire!

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Old 02-10-2012, 11:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: Collet holder rather than a drill chuck in a drill press?

Well I mentioned in passing to my boss that I needed to replace the chuck on my drill press, at which point he opened up a drawer on one of his shop toolboxes, and handed me 4 old chucks with worn jaws that he doesn't feel like rebuilding.

I left work today with a No. 34 Jacob's 0-1/2" with an MT2 arbor, a Rohm key'd ball bearing chuck 3/16" to 3/4" with an MT4 arbor, and 2 Rohm Spiro ball bearing 1/16" to 1/2" keyless chucks on R8 arbors, all in need of new jaws!

I guess I have some chuck rebuilds to attend to.
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