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Old 02-08-2012, 08:00 PM   #1
ErieSteve
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Default Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

I'm currently in the process of getting bids to build a 40'x60' garage on a block foundation with a 6" slab/radiant. The walls are going to be 16' high with 4' of block above ground and a 12' wall on top of that. Attic trusses spaced at 24".

My friend who works at a company that makes panelized homes and trusses tells me that standard stick-built construction 2x6 at 16" on center is adequate for my 40x60 building.

His recommendation (inside to outside)

- Plywood
- R19 Insulation, 16" wide
- 2x6 wall stud at 16" on center with double 2x6 top plate
- Plywood
- Tyvek
- 1" tongue and groove larch siding

One of the contractors quoting the building tells me that a standard 2x6 wall 60' long is not going to be very strong and he would advise against building it that way.

His recommendation is as follows (inside to outside):

- Plywood
- R19 insulation, 24" wide
- 2x6 stud wall at 24" on center built in 10' long panels
- 2x4 wall girts spaced 24" vertically and staggered to help tie the wall panels together better
- Double-bubble insulation
- 1" tongue and groove larch siding
- 2x8 double top plate to make up for the girts so that the wall is flush and can be sheeted to the top inside and out.

He has been a shed/garage/barn builder for a long time, but I just want to make sure that he is not suggesting something that I don't need He says the size of the building 60' long and the fact that there are no internal walls makes it important to tie the studs together with girts or else the building won't be as strong as it could be and could have some unwanted movement over time.

He also tells me that having the girts to nail into will be much better for the vertical tongue and groove siding than nailing into plywood.

I asked why he did the walls at 24" on center and he said it was so that the trusses will be bearing directly down onto studs rather than in-between them. He realizes that a standard 2x6 stud wall will technically hold the trusses, but he says his method is much stronger.

Is this guy blowing smoke up my a$$ or is he helping direct me to a sturdy-built building?

His prices so far are actually a little less than what I am seeing from some of the general contractors in the area quoting a standard stick-built construction.

Sorry for the long post, but I'd really like to see what some of you guys think. I'd like to start a build thread on here as soon as I get some more details finalized.
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:29 PM   #2
Al Bundy
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

My opinion, I would avoid him. Some of what he's saying doesn't make sense. You should have a double plate on top anyway. And I would much rather have 16" centers. I don't really care if the trusses are directly on top of a stud.
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

Have you considered a pole building? Very sturdy, less expensive and you don't need to pour footers. Also the type of siding you are going to use will nail to the girts just like the builder explaind. Putting plywood then vertical siding seems like a waste of $$.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:30 PM   #4
ErieSteve
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

I have considered a pole building and after too much research, it seemed like I needed a garage with a foundation due to me wanting to

1) Insulate the crap out of the building
2) Run radiant floor heat to keep the building around 45 all winter long
3) Guarantee that I would not get any water into the building
4) Keep rodents to a minimum

If I could do all those and reap the savings of a pole building, then I'm in, but my problem is that I read too much and most people say that if you're going to insulate a pole building, you need to build stud walls between the posts and the cost of the pressure treated poles and building the stud walls is just a little less than building with a foundation and stick built?!?!

This whole process hasn't been very enjoyable so far.. I have had to really pull teeth to get people to quote my building and when they do come out, it takes weeks or up to a month for them to get back with a quote. I still don't have any detailed quotes from any of the contractors, just some budgetary numbers.

I can't wait till the shell is up and I can do the rest myself.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

[QUOTE=ErieSteve;2084188]I have considered a pole building and after too much research, it seemed like I needed a garage with a foundation due to me wanting to

1) Insulate the crap out of the building
2) Run radiant floor heat to keep the building around 45 all winter long
3) Guarantee that I would not get any water into the building
4) Keep rodents to a minimum

If I could do all those and reap the savings of a pole building, then I'm in, but my problem is that I read too much and most people say that if you're going to insulate a pole building, you need to build stud walls between the posts and the cost of the pressure treated poles and building the stud walls is just a little less than building with a foundation and stick built?!?!


When you install your girts you need to use the construction or book shelf technique. Turning the 2x on it's side and installing inside the post, frames the inside and outside at the same time. It also gives you a stronger building.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

I have a 40' x 60' open floor shop. 2x6 wall on 16" center construction. Just as your friend suggested.
I live in high wind location (40 - 60 mph) with no structural problems. My roof is a 4-12 pitch but the wind takes care of any snow loads.
I believe placing your overhead doors so they are not directly in the trade wind path is also a key element.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

Either one will work with adequate bracing. It sounds as though there will not be a top of wall beam to support the roof. In that case, if your roof trusses are placed directly over the wall studs you can use a single top plate. If the trusses are spaced differently from the wall framing or otherwise not directly bearing over the studs, you need a double top plate.
The walls can be braced against bowing by diagonal bracing in the roof structure and adequate anchorage to the walls.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErieSteve View Post
I have considered a pole building and after too much research, it seemed like I needed a garage with a foundation due to me wanting to

1) Insulate the crap out of the building
2) Run radiant floor heat to keep the building around 45 all winter long
3) Guarantee that I would not get any water into the building
4) Keep rodents to a minimum
Have a 60x104x16 pole barn and 40x60x16 of that is heated shop, all 4 of those points are not an issue with it.

1. Walls have R19 bats, ceiling is blown in with around R30, used closed cell spray foam for the under slab insulation and moisture barrier 1.5". Would have been best to do the whole building if it didn't cost so much.
2. Radiant heating keeps it around 54
3. Have 20+ year old pole barns that water is not an issue with
4. Concrete slab ensures no rodents enter.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:56 AM   #9
ErieSteve
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6768rogues View Post
Either one will work with adequate bracing. It sounds as though there will not be a top of wall beam to support the roof. In that case, if your roof trusses are placed directly over the wall studs you can use a single top plate.
He is using a double 2x8 top, but still insists that the trusses be spaced with the studs.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

What is code for your area? Gonna have it insured under your homeowner's policy?

I built had one similar to what you're doing with no lolly columns, they always seem to be in the way. Anywho, I'm about 25 miles from a shoreline and insurance/code for my area is to withstand 100 mph winds. I asked the inspector WTF, we have houses in town that are over 200 years old and they just sit on rock foundations...he said if you want to insure in case of loss ya gotta follow the rules.

I found a place in PA in a magazine that made panelized structures but they stick built mine. All plans were emailed to me in a timely manner and they worked with me so everything was code. They had to provide stress load calculations to show my roof trusses would support the wind load AND floor below.

If people in your area don't want the work go outside the area. Nice they can be so independent in this economy.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

Like everyone has said, the double top plate takes care of the loading of the trusses.

It sounds like the second guy is making more of an issue or trying to re-invent the wheel.

2x8 top plate? Sounds hoky to me....your sheathing is going to go all the way up and nail into the top plate....his way, it would butt up against it.

I would much rather have walls on 16" vs 24"....more support. Ever walked on a roof where you had 1/2" plywood over 24" OC rafters? No thank you.

Just went back and looked at your second guys list again....it looks like he is prefabing the panels in his shope (10') and then plans to errect them in the field. Sounds like he is taking short cuts.....makes you wonder what other short cuts he wants to take.
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
2x8 top plate? Sounds hoky to me....your sheathing is going to go all the way up and nail into the top plate....his way, it would butt up against.
I agree, it all seems hokey to me too, but since I'm not a builder, I wanted to make sure if what he was saying was bs.

His reason for the 2x8 top plate is so that the larch siding can run all the way up flush and nail to the top plate: 2x6 wall (5.5") + 2x4 girt (1.5") = 7". The 2x8 is 7.25" so there is still a .25" ledge somewhere.

I'm going to look somewhere else, too many hokey things with this guy. It's too bad because he is so far the cheapest and his shop is about 2 miles from my house.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

Built a similar sized shop last year here in NY. Sorry but 24" OC will limit you in the attic truss storage that your trying to build. not so much for the roof but the sub floor and what you will do/store up there...For the extra half dozen or so trusses you will need depending on roof design it's a no brainer to go 16" OC.. We did 2x6 outter walls with the top plates and built a 2x4 inner wall for the sloped sides to rest on (two outter bays no above stroage for the most part. The middle bay then has a taller 2x6 wall for which the center attic truss sits on here are pic's to make sense of this. I have 18k in lumber and metal shell..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg framing 2.jpg (132.9 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg framing 4.jpg (150.4 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg Tin 1.jpg (141.1 KB, 46 views)
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErieSteve View Post
I have considered a pole building and after too much research, it seemed like I needed a garage with a foundation due to me wanting to

1) Insulate the crap out of the building
2) Run radiant floor heat to keep the building around 45 all winter long
3) Guarantee that I would not get any water into the building
4) Keep rodents to a minimum

If I could do all those and reap the savings of a pole building, then I'm in, but my problem is that I read too much and most people say that if you're going to insulate a pole building, you need to build stud walls between the posts and the cost of the pressure treated poles and building the stud walls is just a little less than building with a foundation and stick built?!?!

This whole process hasn't been very enjoyable so far.. I have had to really pull teeth to get people to quote my building and when they do come out, it takes weeks or up to a month for them to get back with a quote. I still don't have any detailed quotes from any of the contractors, just some budgetary numbers.

I can't wait till the shell is up and I can do the rest myself.
I have a pole building 12 yrs old and have had none of the issues you think they have. I would not hesitate to go this way again.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

as long as you brace the building for shear the first method is more than enough, no need to get fancy. dont really understand the 2x4 girts or the 2x8 top plate thing. buildings have been built like the first scenario for years and they are more than adequate if you build them the way they should be built.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:41 PM   #16
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Default Re: Building a 40x60 garage, need opinion on construction

If I was building a 60' 2x6 wall in sections - by myself - I'd do it in 12' sections and use let in 1x4 braces on the end sections and the middle section. Once tied together at the corners with the 40' sides built the same way and an overlapping double top plate, you won't be able to move any wall laterally. With plywood on both sides, it'd take a dozer to move one of the walls.

Like this:
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