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Old 03-07-2012, 03:56 AM   #1
mzbk2l
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Default Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

I'm scheduled to close this month on a new (to me) house in Pinal County, just outside of Apache Junction, AZ, at the foot of Superstition Mountain. The house has an attached 3-car garage, but I plan to use that for the daily drivers and the motorcycles.

I'd like to put up something along the lines of 32' x 48' as a place to keep my workshop and project cars and 2-post lift. The only concessions I have to make to keep my better half happy are 1) it can't be in front of the house, and 2) the style should match or compliment the house. Other than that, she's been extremely supportive:

"Are you sure 30' x 40' is big enough? You should add some space so you have enough room." (Hence the 32' x 48'.)
"We need to make sure we build it where you have room to expand when you want to."
"Maybe you can have the pad poured bigger than the building in case you want to add on."

I'm still completely in the brainstorming phase, but I'm currently gravitating toward a 2 cars wide by 2 cars deep layout. The two bays closest to the doors will be parking for my other two daily drivers, while the two spaces further in will house a 2-post lift on one side and a locking tool room/workshop on the other side.

I'm permitted up to 20 feet in height on a detached building in my zoning, so I'm thinking about 16'+ ceilings so I can have a loft or small living area above the tool room.

Here's the style of my current garage; the new one will look similar, only taller, wider, and deeper:


A couple of other house pics:




And the property layout (probably put the building where the two adjacent sheds are now):




The 3 big Saguaro cactus on the property are probably 100-125 years old, so the building will be planned to avoid encroaching on those.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

While I've been a mechanic for over 20 years, I've done next to no carpentry work whatsoever. I'd like perform as much of the work on my building as I can, but I don't even know enough to know what I don't know.... the sum total of my experience is a couple years of electricity in HS, and replacing 3-4 shingle roofs.

I've been reading on GJ for several weeks, but there don't seem to be a lot of builds in the sonoran desert. I don't know how much different the concrete requirements are out here compared to many of your builds in more humid areas of the country (with soil instead of sand).

Anyway, if any of you have Santa Fe style buildings, or neighbors with Santa Fe style buildings, or even suggestions for Santa Fe Style buildings, I'm all ears.

Oh, one other thing: Many of the houses out this way have "observation decks" on part of the roof of the house (easy to do with the flat roof and outside walls that are higher than the roof). My house does not, so I'll probably plan for part of the building to include that feature. It'll be a nice place to sit and have a drink in the evening and watch the sun set over Phoenix.

Obviously lots of planning and preparing to do, but I'm anxious to get to the point where I can start posting pictures!
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

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Originally Posted by mzbk2l View Post
I'm permitted up to 20 feet in height on a detached building in my zoning, so I'm thinking about 16'+ ceilings so I can have a loft or small living area above the tool room.
i just did the loft thing and i couldn't be happier
too much floor space was lost in my last garage to parts storage, now everything that i don't need immediately goes upstairs, out of the way
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:50 AM   #4
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Cool, thanks for the feedback, ATN.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

My wife is from Albuquerque (which is why I can spell it without Google) and having been in NM a lot, I don't recall seeing a lot of larger shops done in the SW tradition. Your place is beautiful BTW. Glad you are saving the cacti.

I would look at two story adobe houses and get some ideas there. A big square brown box won't quite blend IMHO, LOL. Got to get some southwest steps, lines, etc in there.

Here's a bunch of photos from Taos: http://www.pbase.com/waynes6/image/118115061

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Xavi-E...65240090185920
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Thanks, Falcon. Your garage build is one of the first ones I bookmarked for inspiration here. I agree that a big brown box won't look like much; I'm hoping to work in some variations in wall (and possibly roof) height, as well as wall details and shapes above the roofline.

My SO is a commercial designer, and has much more visual imagination than I do. If whatever we come up with passes muster with her, I'm certain it will be an improvement to the property in both my view and in hers.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

My first couple of thoughts were that 1/4 of the building, sectioned off, will not be enough for a shop/tool room. I think you should at the very least put a large sliding door (plus a man door) so that a bigger project can "spill over."

The other is the ceiling height. I don't think you have to maintain a high parapet but you do have to have slope on the roof. Remember that floor joists for the room above will likely be 2 x 12's, so you need to add in a foot there and a foot at the roof. 18' at the high side of the slope will get you near 8' ceilings above and below. I know I would not want a shop with 7' ceilings nor a room with same. You couldn't even use a ceiling fan.

At 18' high for the roof framing, you might be able to drop the parapet a foot. 20' tall out there in the yard is going to loom large.

One last thought, you might consider stepping the parapet to match the house. I would myself even stagger the bays offset like the area above the tile on the main house. One step should do it rather than two.

Show that design to the wife!
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

I agree with Zeke regarding setting one bay back and braking the massing down to smaller elements to prevent the structure from looking like a huge single block. I'd also look at using a raised monitor/clearstory over your loft w/ north glazing to get the height you need w/o raising the roof height of the entire structure and possibly dwarfing the scale of you home.


Here are a few images (not mine) of "Pueblo" style homes that incorporate these techniques.

They are more elaborate than what I'd recommend for your garage, but you get the idea.







For what it's worth, I grew up in and studied architecture in New Mexico and have designed and built many Territorial, Pueblo, and Santa Fe style homes.

Last edited by idoine in toronto; 03-07-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Thanks, Zeke and idoine.

Zeke, I agree about the ceiling height and the thought of having a huge shoebox sitting in my yard... that's one thing that has me thinking of 4 cars wide instead of 2 wide by 2 deep. If I go 4 cars wide, I can do 2 bays with 10' ceilings and 2 bays with 18' ceilings, which would really break up the shape of the building. (All of this is why I'm still in the brainstorming phase, and why I'm happily reading all replies.)

idoine, thank you for the drawings and suggestions. Are there differences between Territorial, Pueblo, and Santa Fe styles? While I was looking at homes where I ended up buying, I saw houses that I thought looked nearly identical, but one may have been called Territorial and the next called Santa Fe.

I like the raised area idea over the loft; that would allow me to go with maybe a 16' ceiling over the lift (leaving plenty of lifting room), and still have a loft I can stand up in.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

In a nut shell, New Mexico Territorial style architecture incorporated Greek revival elements, that were popular in the east, into the regional adobe buildings. Typical features are white double hung windows and doors as well as brick trim at the parapet.



Santa Fe, and Pueblo style are now commonly interchangeable, but the style is a revival of the traditional buildings of the SW Pueblo Indians who built in adobe and stone, usually small rooms with flat roofs that were added on to room at a time.





Pueblo Revival today - The Loretto Inn, Santa Fe


Here is a brief description of the styles
http://santafeproperties.com/SantaFe/architecture.html

I'd describe your home as Santa Fe/Pueblo style.

Last edited by idoine in toronto; 03-07-2012 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Whoah, welcome board, Mike!

On a completely unrelated note: it would take me a while to get used to the landscape out there. Everything is so dry and brown looking!
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

I used to build adobe homes in the Albuquerque area 25 years ago. I miss it.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Kind of off topic, but whats the total acreage of your property? Going to be looking at property in the Florence area here in the next year or so, and the size of your property looks perfect to me. Congrats on the new home!
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

I think this thread and the build are going to get very interesting. idoine, those are some nice sketches.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

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I used to build adobe homes in the Albuquerque area 25 years ago. I miss it.
1320stang, it’s possible we crossed paths, as I was working on an adobe in the North Valley in ’90-91. Miss it too.

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I think this thread and the build are going to get very interesting. idoine, those are some nice sketches.
I agree this could turn out pretty nice.
As for the sketches, I also agree that they're nice, but unfortunately can't take any credit for them, as I found them on the net when searching for "Santa Fe style garages".

Thread jack warning:
Here are a few images from a home I recently designed in NM








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Old 03-07-2012, 09:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by idoine in toronto View Post
Santa Fe, and Pueblo style are now commonly interchangeable, but the style is a revival of the traditional buildings of the SW Pueblo Indians who built in adobe and stone, usually small rooms with flat roofs that were added on to room at a time.

Here is a brief description of the styles
http://santafeproperties.com/SantaFe/architecture.html

I'd describe your home as Santa Fe/Pueblo style.
Thanks, idoine. I've admired the Santa Fe style since I moved to AZ in '97; I just never knew what it was called or how it compared to the other similar styles.

I've never seen a house like the one you recently designed in NM; it looks like it combines elements of Santa Fe with the peaked roof of other styles.

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Whoah, welcome board, Mike!

On a completely unrelated note: it would take me a while to get used to the landscape out there. Everything is so dry and brown looking!
Thanks, Bull. I recognize you and Stuart from PY; anybody else here?

I grew up in MI, so the change from green to brown was an adjustment for me, but only in good ways. No more grass to mow, no more snow to shovel, no more dismal, dreary days for 3/4 of the year, and no more rust on my old cars (the biggest selling point for me). I can't imagine living anywhere else!

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Kind of off topic, but whats the total acreage of your property? Going to be looking at property in the Florence area here in the next year or so, and the size of your property looks perfect to me. Congrats on the new home!
Hi risinoutlaw. My new property is on 1.25 acres (as are most of the others out there at the base of Superstition Mountain). I haven't been down to Florence in years - probably before the housing boom. It was a sleepy little burg back then, but it may have changed completely when property values out here went through the roof. Good luck in your search!


On a separate note, I went to sleep thinking of the input so far (I'm 8 hours ahead of EST right now), and I don't know that there's much of a way to make 2 cars wide by 2 cars deep look like anything more than a giant shoebox. Perhaps I should go 4 cars side-by-side instead, so I can stagger the depths of the bays and put the doors on different planes. That would also make it much easier to vary the heights of the parapets for some visual appeal.... I just don't know how much that bit of complexity would add to the cost.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Hi mike and welcome! Great looking place you got there, love the view off the pool!! did some backpacking in the Superstitions back in the day, never found the gold tho I too am a midwest transplant.. I moved here from Ill. in 79 gave away my snow shovel and never looked back haha. Looking forward to following your build... Good Luck!


















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Old 03-08-2012, 07:12 AM   #18
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Sounds like an interesting build! I love the look of the exposed peeled log beams in the ceiling with the adobe walls!
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #19
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by idoine in toronto View Post
I agree this could turn out pretty nice.
As for the sketches, I also agree that they're nice, but unfortunately can't take any credit for them, as I found them on the net when searching for "Santa Fe style garages".
I googled the same thing, then spent an hour on Google Earth going over Superstition Mt and trying to spot the house LOL. What a time killer! I'm in west Texas and you start picking up a little of that architecture out the way - not a lot, but when you see it, it does blend well with the landscape.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: Planning Santa Fe style build in AZ

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Originally Posted by upndown View Post
Hi mike and welcome! Great looking place you got there, love the view off the pool!! did some backpacking in the Superstitions back in the day, never found the gold tho I too am a midwest transplant.. I moved here from Ill. in 79 gave away my snow shovel and never looked back haha. Looking forward to following your build... Good Luck!
Thanks, upndown. I'm glad nobody's found the Lost Dutchman mine yet... I probably wouldn't be able to afford a house out there if they had!

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I googled the same thing, then spent an hour on Google Earth going over Superstition Mt and trying to spot the house LOL. What a time killer! I'm in west Texas and you start picking up a little of that architecture out the way - not a lot, but when you see it, it does blend well with the landscape.
That's funny, Falcon. I spent hours and hours on google earth while I was looking at houses out that way. Looking at travel routes, roads that may wash out during storms, views to the mountain, etc. Scoping out any similar properties that may have had big detached buildings, too.

Google recently updated the Google Maps page for that area; if you zoom in to within 2-3 stops of the closest zoom, it automatically switches to the 45* angle view like the overhead pics I posted. Makes it much easier to look at people's garages.
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