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Old 01-20-2008, 07:35 PM   #1
toolfreak
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Default Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

My friend had his van towed to my house because it quit on the highway. I hooked up the scan tool and gave me cam position sensor so I started looking and the timing belt broke. It is a 2.4L with an automatic trans, I was wondering if I need to pull the head in order to see if the valves hit the pistons or is there any other way to tell?
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I realize I could put a new belt on and do a compression check too.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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My friend had his van towed to my house because it quit on the highway. I hooked up the scan tool and gave me cam position sensor so I started looking and the timing belt broke. It is a 2.4L with an automatic trans, I was wondering if I need to pull the head in order to see if the valves hit the pistons or is there any other way to tell?
it is awful!! it is happen same thing with all 2.0L and 2.4L engines!! i would recommend you to do cylinder leakage test to see if valves bent or something broke inside.. i had same thing problem with 1996 Neon as timing belt broke off because water pump seized... so i told to my mom's friend to let me do cylinder leaking test and all valves bent because when friend keep trying to starting the engine and it keep hit and hit valves..

check the spark plug to see if it is damaged or not. if damaged then cylinder head are damaged and too costly to repair. but If spark plug is not damaged then do cylinder leak test to see if there is leaking out of exhaust pipe, intake maifold, or even dipstick (it can cause by hole in piston)...

you can do put new timing belt on it when timing marks on right way and do compression test to see if it had low compression or normal compression...

if it is in my work (i work for chrysler and Jeep dealership) i am always do cylinder leak test and see if it had leak or not...
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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I realize I could put a new belt on and do a compression check too.
you can do that way if it happen to run good and normal then that is good...
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

saw that the 2.4 has deep reliefs in the pistons , maybe you will be lucky
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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saw that the 2.4 has deep reliefs in the pistons , maybe you will be lucky
I am hope so but that 2.4L cylinder head remove and restall is easy on grand caravan because it is lot of space... but it is worse on PT. Cruiser!! i hate that car!!
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

OH LAWD,,,,,,that will not be an easy fix even for pros, Me I would rather be beat with a rusty waterpump than be the mechanic that fixes it.....
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I don't know about the 2.4l, but a water pump on my wife's 3.0 Caravan was Hell.

The worst freaking design I have ever seen. Even if it had been just a timing belt, it would have sucked beyond comprehension.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

it is an interference motor. Do a leak down test and see if anything is bent. Then put the new belt on or pull the head.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

Well looks like I will be buying a leakdown tester very soon, I wasn't even thinking bout that. Anyone have an what kind of time it takes to replace the timing belt?
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

take the wheel off, top engine mount, pulleys, engine covers..ect ect. Time? that all depends on experience. Should take a novice with some tools 6 hours, someone that does it everyday maybe 2-3 while you are in there might as well replace water pump, tenioner, idler pulley, front seals
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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Originally Posted by wilbilt View Post
I don't know about the 2.4l, but a water pump on my wife's 3.0 Caravan was Hell.

The worst freaking design I have ever seen. Even if it had been just a timing belt, it would have sucked beyond comprehension.
believe me that i work for chrysler shop and i keep say 3.0L engine are worse i ever work on it.. i was work at old job where i had to pull and install 3.0L V6 about 8 times (same engine but machine shop dont do right job because it keep burning oil) . that engine had 250,000 miles and keep burn oil so customer requested my work to have pull the engine and send to machine shop...

i did replaced head gaskets, water pumps, timing belts, and tensioners on 3.0L as i dont like it but keep me busy...
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

You guys are killin me .......3 liters are gravey...I miss those and the 2.6 mitsi 4 banger bad........and i`m dead serious.

On a seperate note to the original poster..You really cannot do a leakdown properly (or more to the point, shouldn`t) without either removing the cams OR putting a belt back on it so it is time and verifying the valves are not open....DO NOT just try to roll the cams to close the valves as you risk bending one that may not be bent if you are not extremely careful to prevent crank rotation while the leakdown is performed and/or knowing that no piston is at TDC while moving the cams.

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Old 01-21-2008, 08:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

Rick is on the ball on this one.

You can't get the engine timed without rolling both the crankshaft and both cams. This could make things worse, by bending things that are still straight

Personally, every time I do this job, I pull the head. I can pretty much guarantee that at least one pair of valves has been bent, in which case you need to pull the head anyway. Head gaskets and a set of head bolts are cheap, valves and machine work are not. Yank the head and look.

Unfortunately we saw this a lot where I used to work: Volvo and Suzuki both make a wide variety of belt-timed interference motors, and I worked on both product lines there.

In most cases, we'd throw a head on the motor, and send the old one out as a core. It just doesn't pay in most dealerships to do extensive machining and rebuilding anymore. They just farm it out, so we're simply swapping parts.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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Rick is on the ball on this one.

You can't get the engine timed without rolling both the crankshaft and both cams. This could make things worse, by bending things that are still straight

Personally, every time I do this job, I pull the head. I can pretty much guarantee that at least one pair of valves has been bent, in which case you need to pull the head anyway. Head gaskets and a set of head bolts are cheap, valves and machine work are not. Yank the head and look.

Unfortunately we saw this a lot where I used to work: Volvo and Suzuki both make a wide variety of belt-timed interference motors, and I worked on both product lines there.

In most cases, we'd throw a head on the motor, and send the old one out as a core. It just doesn't pay in most dealerships to do extensive machining and rebuilding anymore. They just farm it out, so we're simply swapping parts.


i am agree with TNToy... my dealership have few 3.0L v6 with broke timing belt ( they don't want me to do it) as they handed to other tech (that tech need more hours to make money) to do it as they just do timing belt and replacement water pump... then he just started and it is running as normals...

the reason is why i don't do that job because my dealership want me to do fast repair and easy work so i can got all jobs done than other techs... even had me to help other techs...

the other reason is i did wrote down that it require the engine diagonsic to check the cylinder heads to make sure it is seat right not bent... customers did turn down the job that i wrote because cost is too high to do it... i just want do leak test and compression test(it for after repairs to make sure it in range)
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I thought about it today and I'm just going to pull the head and see what kind of damage there is. If there are bent valves should I just buy a new head or replace the valves in the old one? I am doing this for a friend and they don't have much money so I am trying to do this on a budget. Any idea what a new head costs?

Thanks for the help, I am used to working on heavy equipment. I have rebuilt valves and other components, it's just I haven't ever worked on overhead cam engines before. This is a learning experience for me.
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Old 01-21-2008, 10:07 PM   #17
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

depending on where you live, your utility or city may have a 'tool lending library'
I work for CSE and we have one were you can borrow the tools for free. I know PG&E has one as well
we have a fiber optic inspection scope so you can look into walls or electrical enclosures.

see what you have available to you

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Old 01-23-2008, 06:01 AM   #18
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

Generally the valves will get bent on the Mopar 4 banger especially if driving at any speed. Auto Zone or Advance will loan tools for a deposit if you need special tools.
Try this forum for additional help:
http://allpar.com/forums/
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

For future reference for those that need it - go to the link below for determining quickly if you have an interference engine or non-interference engine application when a timing belt fails (or when needing to know when to replace one):

http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...chGatesPopular

on the main page, just scroll down to the area where it talks about Interference Engine Issues and click on the "Find out Now" link... or even click on the Adobe file "Timing Belt Replacement Guide"...

Every vehicle is listed or can be found - good tool to have around, especially when needing to replace a timing belt, timing belt failure or when checking out used vehicles for determining future repair costs.

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Old 01-23-2008, 07:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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Originally Posted by Blown71X View Post
You guys are killin me .......3 liters are gravey...I miss those and the 2.6 mitsi 4 banger bad........and i`m dead serious.
Yeah, color me OLD, but I yearn for the days when things like water pumps were considered normal maintenance items and didn't require disassembling half of the vehicle to replace.

Of course, converting a fore-aft Japanese design to fit transversely in a US vehicle probably added a bit of complexity.

Whatever.
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I pulled the head off today and looks like my friend lucked out, it doesn't look like the valves hit the pistons. I am trying to find a valve spring compressor but I don't see any that look like they will work.
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Old 01-26-2008, 09:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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I pulled the head off today and looks like my friend lucked out, it doesn't look like the valves hit the pistons. I am trying to find a valve spring compressor but I don't see any that look like they will work.
check on all four pistons to see if it had sign of touch top of piston. my tech friend and i did cylinder head replacement of Ford 3.0 24V DOHC engine to (16 hours of labor worth that what Ford said) because of burnt valve... but tech did one tooth off on exhaust camshaft and it cause noise that make tapping and it already bent all 6 exhaust valves... it is still under of warranty. so i did put new one on it and make right aligment of timing chains and i got it run good... i am hate ford because service manual said it should have timing chain mark (gold or copper) but it said if not then mark it up... damn them!

the valve compressor would need special tool to do unless you have common valve compressor and long tube to grind so you can access to pull valve keepers...
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

The carbon build up had no sign of the valves touching but took the head apart in order to give it a good cleaning and put new valve seals in. I am planning on cutting up a piece of 3/4" or 1" pipe and cut out slots so that I can access the retainers. I used a piece of pipe and a magnet to pull them out and worked pretty good.
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Old 01-26-2008, 11:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I have valve grinding equipment and the spring compressor. dont supose you are you near me??

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Old 01-27-2008, 12:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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I have valve grinding equipment and the spring compressor. dont supose you are you near me??

bob
I live in Illinois but thank you for offering to help. I think I can make the spring compressor I bought to work with a little modification. I have never pulled the valves out of a cylinder head before and this whole project has been pretty easy, although I prefer working on heavy equipment.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:17 PM   #26
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Talking Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I hate to say it but caravans are one reason americans have turned off to american made cars. Seems like everyone that has one has problems . If you check out the list of recalls. consumer complaints. and factory service bulletins be prepared for a very "long read" .The ford windstar isnt much better either so Im not picking on dodge. I myself drive an areostar which was the last mini van made by ford that were well made.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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I hate to say it but caravans are one reason americans have turned off to american made cars. Seems like everyone that has one has problems . If you check out the list of recalls. consumer complaints. and factory service bulletins be prepared for a very "long read" .The ford windstar isnt much better either so Im not picking on dodge. I myself drive an areostar which was the last mini van made by ford that were well made.
why i was read the market from Chrysler that said number one sell is Chrysler Caravan in 2008.... i am understand that you talking about old model caravan...
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:10 PM   #28
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I ran into a problem, the timing belt cover broke when the belt came apart, now the only way to buy it is with a bunch of updates or from the junkyard. My friend was told by the dealer they would have to order all new timing belt components including cam pulleys for the update and the new cover to work. I am going to try to find them at a junkyard but don't know how much luck I will have. Btw, I already have all the parts needed to fix it, besides they don't have the money to buy all the parts from the dealership since they are that much higher.

I hate to do it but if I don't have any luck I may end up putting it together without the covers. What are your opinions of running it without timing covers? I don't want to do that but the blue book is less than a $1000 so I don't see a point in sticking a bunch of money into it doing updates especially when the van isn't in that great of shape.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

The outer cover, right? Grab it from a junkyard.

The redesigned one does require a new inner & outer cover, and a pulley or two. Annoying. I ran into that problem when I did one of these on a co-workers car when I worked at Volvo.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:33 PM   #30
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

It broke the inner and outer lower, the only one that is good is the upper outer cover.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:23 PM   #31
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

what is it made of?
can it be glued or welded?
I would be afraid to run without it. I would rather try to half ass it back together that be without.

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Old 01-29-2008, 07:09 AM   #32
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

get the new covers with the updated idler assy

you will be sorry if you didnt
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:16 PM   #33
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I have done some calling around and searching on the internet and can't find any old style used ones yet. The old ones aren't repairable, they are broke into several pieces.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:56 PM   #34
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

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get the new covers with the updated idler assy

you will be sorry if you didnt
From what the dodge dealer told my friend, I would have to buy new cam and crank pulleys to work with the new idler, tensioner, and cover. The van isn't worth sticking that kind of money into, it has so many other problems that I am trying to talk them into trading it off when I get it put back together regardles whether or not it has timing covers.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:03 PM   #35
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

shouldnt be

the kits we get have the covers..tensoiner pully and idler pully

never had to change the cam and crank gear..

prolly done a least 30 in the past few years
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:26 PM   #36
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

My friend probably talked to someone who didn't know anything, that's the way it always goes for me. I might have to see about taking back the parts I already have and getting that kit. I really hate to put it together without the covers.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:22 AM   #37
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Default Re: Timing belt broke on dodge caravan

I need to post this for the benefit of anyone in the future who may be reading this for advice on whether or not their engine is an interference engine or not... my timing belt in a 98 Caravan with the 2.4l engine also broke and found differing opinions as to whether this is an interference engine or not... the only source that said it wasn't was the Gates lookup that someone posted here, everyone else said it was.

It turns out that Gates was right after all. By all rights our valves should have been crushed given the fact that the cams were put in different positions as the crank was spun all w/o any bent valves. The engine runs great and compression tests prove the lack of damage. Thanks to that person who posted that Gates link and gave me some hope after all.
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