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Old 06-17-2012, 04:55 PM   #21
GirlnAgarage
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

Strip the old.
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Old 06-17-2012, 05:10 PM   #22
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

For the most part I would strip it down for many of the same reasons mentioned like weight and check condition of underlay. I would also say though that if you go to a class 4 shingle with some insurance companies you can get a healthy discount on your homeowners insurance. Yes a metal roof is good, but I know on the old metal roofs that it could get noisey during heavy rain or hail. Also I saw on one policy that you would need to sign a waiver on the appearance of the metal roof for a discount.
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

I've read a lot of opinions on other sites about this but very little to back it up. There are a number of caveats to doing an overlay--shingles can't be curling (mine are not), new shingles need to have the same exposure to lay correctly (can do), and the decking must be in good shape.

I read thru several warantees and there is nothing there that says overlays void the warantee. That said, the warantees on these products stink (prorated) and labor is the big thing.

The concept of inspecting the decking is the only valid issue I have seen. I have been up in the attic and seen the underside as well as walked the roof and all seems solid. I am trying to get this done before I have any issues. My existing shingles are not leaking but some spots have little to no mineral left on them. The ridges are cracking. It could last another couple years but that would risk problems. I'd rather fix it now.

Big savings for the overlay is labor if I do it myself. Also I can go slower--one section at a time--and it would be easier to follow existing courses. Current roof has no drip edges installed, I can order drip edges intended for overlays and actually have a better roof. Biggest concern for me is doing the valleys--I don't like the way the old ones were done -- they just don't look like water would flow right over them.

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Old 06-17-2012, 06:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

Tear off!
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkTinkerer View Post
Big savings for the overlay is labor if I do it myself. Also I can go slower--one section at a time--and it would be easier to follow existing courses. Current roof has no drip edges installed, I can order drip edges intended for overlays and actually have a better roof. Biggest concern for me is doing the valleys--I don't like the way the old ones were done -- they just don't look like water would flow right over them.

ArkTinkerer
If you're worried about the valleys, I believe that is more than enough reason to tear off the old. You may want to inspect to see if there is any damage under the shingles/valley material.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

DEFINITELY tear off. That's a lot of weight. Figure how much the new shingles weigh and you will remove old. Don't know your location but if snow load is a concern, tear off.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

1. Does the roof sag right now? (From ridge to eave?) Tear off.

2. If you can get it the attic, see how its framed...
then throw a couple numbers in this calculator:
http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/...rcalcstyle.asp
If its inadequate, tear off.

3. If its structurally sound, and you got three tab, you could overlay.
Use a 5" starter course, and a 10" first course to get you running right.

4. Ive tore off numerous roofs with 1, 2, 3 layers. Unless you got 1 million square not much difference honestly.

IMHO anyways...
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

I never do 2 layers, just personal preference I guess...
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkTinkerer View Post
I've read a lot of opinions on other sites about this but very little to back it up. There are a number of caveats to doing an overlay--shingles can't be curling (mine are not), new shingles need to have the same exposure to lay correctly (can do), and the decking must be in good shape.

I read thru several warantees and there is nothing there that says overlays void the warantee. That said, the warantees on these products stink (prorated) and labor is the big thing.

The concept of inspecting the decking is the only valid issue I have seen. I have been up in the attic and seen the underside as well as walked the roof and all seems solid. I am trying to get this done before I have any issues. My existing shingles are not leaking but some spots have little to no mineral left on them. The ridges are cracking. It could last another couple years but that would risk problems. I'd rather fix it now.

Big savings for the overlay is labor if I do it myself. Also I can go slower--one section at a time--and it would be easier to follow existing courses. Current roof has no drip edges installed, I can order drip edges intended for overlays and actually have a better roof. Biggest concern for me is doing the valleys--I don't like the way the old ones were done -- they just don't look like water would flow right over them.

ArkTinkerer
Ridges are cracking, don't like the valleys, no drip edge. Sounds like a poor roof, even though you say it is in decent shape. Do yourself a favor and tear it all of and start fresh. You can put down ice dam, drip edge, do the valleys right, etc. Why go over stuff you aren't sure about like the valleys you say you don't like the way they are done.

You can do what you want because it's your roof but any decent roofer would tear it off and start fresh for numorous reasons. I see no reason that a home owner wouldn't want to do the little bit of extra labor to do the job right themselves.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

I'm in Arkansas. Very few houses here have drip edges--they just run the shingles beyond the edge by about 1". Even fewer ice shields--we are lucky to get one snow a year and its gone in a few days. Roof has no sag and the lines are very straight.

But the roof is old. Its done its thing for at least 20-25 years and I've been here for 14 of those and I want to fix it before its a problem.

Best argument against so far is tear off allows inspection. But I can inspect from the attic for the most part.

Arguments for overlay are labor, cost, convenience.

I appreciate the advice so far but has anyone personally seen a problem on a second layer of shingles if its well installed and the deck is solid?

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Old 06-17-2012, 10:32 PM   #31
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

We never layered any roof we ever did. Sometimes the deck was in OK

shape, sometimes there were surprises that reared their ugly heads when

the felt was peeled off. Since we live and worked at the shore, we found

a lot of bad flashings, steel, copper and aluminium alike due to the salt,

humidity, and aging of the materials. If the roof shingles are wood to

begin with, normally they as well as the lathe needs to be stripped off

so a proper deck can be applied. Too many factors to consider b/c

the underside of the roof hasn't been looked at in how many years, and

won't be for another how many. While you are at it, consider a 40yr

architect overlay shingle so, like me, you will never have to fool with it

again in your lifetime. Some last thoughts: don't rely on the cheapie stack

pipe flashings. Have a tinknocker make up a proper flashing that folds

over and into the stack. We have seen too many cheapies fail long

before they should. Also, Ice and Fire applied around the whole perimeter

of the roof is an excellent idea, as well as using 30# felt (minimum). I know

that it ups the cost somewhat, but there is nothing like buying a good

insurance policy for the stuff that lives under the roof.

Uncle Bob
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

You are adding a lot of weight to that roof system......strip it!
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:41 AM   #33
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArkTinkerer View Post
I've read a lot of opinions on other sites about this but very little to back it up. There are a number of caveats to doing an overlay--shingles can't be curling (mine are not), new shingles need to have the same exposure to lay correctly (can do), and the decking must be in good shape.

I read thru several warantees and there is nothing there that says overlays void the warantee. That said, the warantees on these products stink (prorated) and labor is the big thing.

The concept of inspecting the decking is the only valid issue I have seen. I have been up in the attic and seen the underside as well as walked the roof and all seems solid. I am trying to get this done before I have any issues. My existing shingles are not leaking but some spots have little to no mineral left on them. The ridges are cracking. It could last another couple years but that would risk problems. I'd rather fix it now.

Big savings for the overlay is labor if I do it myself. Also I can go slower--one section at a time--and it would be easier to follow existing courses. Current roof has no drip edges installed, I can order drip edges intended for overlays and actually have a better roof. Biggest concern for me is doing the valleys--I don't like the way the old ones were done -- they just don't look like water would flow right over them.

ArkTinkerer
Shingling over is plain and simple a cheaper, crappier way to do it. But go ahead and find reasons to talk yourself into doing that if you like. You may end up convincing yourself that you're happy, but people who know what's what will know you took the shortcut. I'm a builder and would never even remotely consider doing that to anyone, friend or enemy. Anything worth doing is worth doing right, or not at all.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:11 AM   #34
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

Tear it off..and ridge vent is practicly useless without venting at the soffits.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:16 AM   #35
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

ArkTinkerer, you've been given reasons to strip it. If they aren't strong enough for you, it's your roof, by all means do it how you want. But seems like you want a blessing before you go ahead. Here you go - good luck!


If the amount of work/work speed is what's making the layer look like an acceptable compromise (you did say "Also I can go slower--one section at a time--and it would be easier to follow existing courses."), then paying for roofers to get it done at a good working speed would be a plus.

Anyway, do it how you want. It's your house.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:42 AM   #36
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

You seem to be looking for someone to give you the OK that you can do it.

It's your roof so you do not need anyones blessing. The overwhelming majority on here are saying to do it right and strip it. However you continue to come back and lean towards another layer.

Plain and simple it is the cheap and wrong way to do it. When you have a problem in a 5 years the only way to fix it will be to strip. Do one layer now and you can make small repairs if needed. BTW, drip edge is not just for snow, but any water coming off your roof.

Your roof, your time, make a choice and run with it. You know what most of us would do.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:48 AM   #37
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I'm a roofer in DFW, with an architecture degree.

Strip it. Leave old felt. New 15lb felt over that then Gaf timberline

The insurance companies don't like the additional weight on the rafters. Tear-off costs me a whopping $10 per square. It's worth it.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
For the most part I would strip it down for many of the same reasons mentioned like weight and check condition of underlay. I would also say though that if you go to a class 4 shingle with some insurance companies you can get a healthy discount on your homeowners insurance. Yes a metal roof is good, but I know on the old metal roofs that it could get noisey during heavy rain or hail. Also I saw on one policy that you would need to sign a waiver on the appearance of the metal roof for a discount.
Best deal in class4 is Owens Corning Weatherguard HP. about $30/sq over a 30yr shingle
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:03 PM   #39
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

It sounds like you already have your mind made up and it is your house so do what you want and best of luck to you.

What I don't understand is you ask a question looking for advice and almost everyone advises you to tear it off for various reasons. Yet you seem to keep trying to justify not tearing it off, or at least that is what I get out of your posts. So why ask if you don't want to hear what others are telling you?
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:09 PM   #40
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Default Re: 2nd layer of shingles or tear-off/re-roof

I Just redid half the roof on my shop (hip roof). We stripped it, you would be surprised by the amount of bad wood that you could never see.
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