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Old 07-20-2012, 07:16 PM   #1
myfirstgarage
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Default Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Hello all,
This is my first garage, and I could really use y'all expertise...

My garage will be 22x24 located in Tennessee. My question is: How do I tie in my small stem wall into my monolithic slab/footer?

I have not poured anything yet, but my ideal setup would be to pour as monolithically as possible. I will be doing the job myself with maybe a day laborer. I can't seem to figure out how to pour the stem wall, foundation, and slab at the same time? Thus I think I will have to resort to pouring the foundation and slab at the same time, and then somehow attaching the concrete block around the perimeter to raise the stud wall further from earth.

I could use as many suggestions as possible, and I have learned a lot from reading the posts here. I will be using 3500 psi self-consolidating concrete. Wire mesh will be placed throughout the slab and then turned down into the footing to be tied in with the two #4 rebar. Then I plan on setting one course of block on the slab to raise the sill further off the ground.

Here, I am confused on how to anchor the block to the slab? If the J-bolts are grouted into the block, how is it secure with the rest of the footer? How does block just not tip over with the wall? Is there a way to avoid this and to pour all of this at once - formwork suggestions?
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:31 PM   #2
supernova
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I just did the same thing on my garage extension, except I only did a partial stem wall with block. I used regular jbolts on the non block wall & used 1/2" all thread for the block portion. Worked well & my inspector liked it too. I sank the allthread nice & deep into the concrete when I poured it & set the block the next day. Then I went back the following day & added some more jbolts for the stud wall on top of the 2x8 sill plate. Then, I filled in every block with concrete. Nice & strong. I'm sure there will be more help and ideas coming your way soon. Good luck, & lots of pics!

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Old 07-20-2012, 07:46 PM   #3
myfirstgarage
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Supernova,
Did you bend the allthread into a "J" shape when you put it down into concrete? Also what consistency did you insert the bolts at - real maple syrup, grape jelly, JIF peanut butter, or Land O' Lakes refrigerated butter? Also why did you use such a large sill plate (2x8)? Did you fill the cores by hand, bucket, or pumper? Finally, did you have an allthread bolt in every block or were some blocks just sitting on the slab? Any water leakage problems?

Thank you in advance!
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

An example of the information you need is within this.
http://www.boral.com.au/brochures/or...20and%20blocks

More info is in book 1 &2 of these design guides
http://www.boral.com.au/masonry-desi...ide%20home.asp

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Old 07-20-2012, 08:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

the concrete pours over the top of the block on a header block and then the stem wall lays on top of the concrete. But that is not a monolithic. monolithic is when everything below grade is concrete and poured at once, footer slab. then the block be on top of slab, with no block below grade
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

I like the all thread idea. Rather than bend it I would use washers held in place by nuts. Two washers and four nuts per. I would space them four feet apart and make them tall enough to serve as sill hold downs. Laying out will be tricky. You want the rod to come up through a core and miss the wall studs.

If you are using rebar in the footings you can tie the rod in before you place the concrete and finish around them. Self-consolidating concrete will flow and level around them but still needs to be finished on top. Unless you can do that you will need a finisher on site and, for a slab of your size, it may be cheaper to use conventional concrete and have it placed and finished by hand. I would certainly talk over the pros and cons with the concrete engineer or manager at your ready mix supplier.

The only cores that really need to be filled are the ones that hold a tie down. However, I would use "U" block, run a perimiter #4 rebar and grout the full length.
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Last edited by Bib Overalls; 07-20-2012 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #7
myfirstgarage
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Alright,
So I am feeling a monolithic pour of the slab and footings. Then it seems that I would be putting J shaped rebar into the concrete footing which extends into my one course of block. From which I put smaller J bolts in to anchor my sill plate when I grout all my blocks in...

Does that seem right? (Of course, I will run it by the inspector, but the city is as hard to reach.)
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Bib Overalls,
I like that idea for its simplicity. Do you mean to sandwich the washer between the two nuts when inserting it into the concrete, then to bolt the sill plate down afterwards?

Also about grouting the cores - wouldn't the rebar rust if it wasn't grouted? And #8 rebar is a bit much, no? If I need to grout only the cells with the anchor, then I am only looking at maybe 16 cells to group (maybe only two bags of cement - easy)...
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:01 AM   #9
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My Inspector said I don't need to bend the all thread to a j. I did put nuts on though to grab the concrete, I like the washer idea, I wish I would've thought of that. I used a 2 x 8 for my sill just because that was the width of the block. I built 2x4 walls on top of that. My inspector told me to go with 2' centers with the all thread. It does take a lot of planning when you are putting the anchors in. Have to get them so they'll be in the block holes & miss the studs when you're building your walls too. Don't forget to add enough for your grout line width when measuring your anchor points, o cut it a little close in a couple of places (my 1st attempt at concrete block work). That's why I did the all thread holding down the 2x8 & the jbolts holding down the wall. Figured it gave me more room for error & was probably a little stronger too.

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Old 07-21-2012, 08:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

The only cores that really need to be filled are the ones that hold a tie down. However, I would use "U" block, run a perimiter #4 rebar and grout the full length.[/QUOTE]

you right but you dont use a u block, you need a open bottom lintel so you can tie into the slab. also consider running straps in the same lintel so they can attach to the studs above the sill plate. must be connected from slab to roof

to lock the block to the slab, you just need some short rebar in the cell, about one every four feet, two in corners and each side of door, j bolts would be needed for the sill plate.

Last edited by brownbagg; 07-21-2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

I can't answer the question but for me' pouring that much concrete by myself would be a lesson in futility. Nothing could be worse than getting started only to realize you bit off more than you chew and can't get help before the concrete dries out. If you do this sort of thing regularly I applaud your abilities. If not, hire a couple of $15/hr guys to help. It won't take but a few hours to pour and finish and I would think that would be cheap insurance. Ymmv of course. Good luck!
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:42 AM   #12
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Don't forget that the electrical ground needs to be tied into the rebar from what I understand is the current code requirement. If you get off on the threaded rod and have to cut one or more out to set the block, use an anchor into the concrete through the core and then use threaded rod above that.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Mine's stick built but slab/footers are monolithic.

Inside form - bottom of board is top of garage slab. Form is ripped to slab grade.
Poured footers 1st


Here Val is levelling off the top of stem walls.


Going in & doing the slab now






Back wall stem wall inside form pulled & finishing.



Getting ready to pull inside form


Done! We waited till next day to pull outside forms.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

that nice, really nice, only thing i see you did wrong was forget the vapor barrier
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:40 PM   #15
myfirstgarage
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Steves32,
That is really cool! I really like this idea, because it would save me the labor of blocking it up later. Also, I love the uniformity and professional appearance of poured concrete - concrete block is so damn brittle! It looks like you used regular concrete without any plasticizer... so I will just have to ask them if my loose slump concrete will flow under my stem wall forms. Eeek. How thick did you pour your slab? Anything you would change? Higher stem walls off grade, perhaps?

Angelfire,
I will take that suggestion. I am using self-consolidating concrete, so the labor should be minimal, but I am not taking the risk of losing $2k worth of concrete for $200 in extra labor.

Milton Shaw,
I wasn't planning on electrifying my garage, but since you mentioned it... I might look into that. At least, I can leave the rebar stick exposed for the electrician to tie into it at a later point....?
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

The rebar electrical ground is too cheap to omit, even if you don't plan for electricity at this time.

Unless the code has changed, you need a bolt within 12" of each corner, in addition to 2 foot on center. I think I'd like a hook on the end. Remember, the Inspector is looking for minimums; you can exceed his requirements.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:46 PM   #17
Steves32
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
that nice, really nice, only thing i see you did wrong was forget the vapor barrier
Didn't forget vapor barrier- it's under the 3" of sand fill (required by city)

Slab is 6-8" thick No wimpy thin concrete here.


You can see the visqueen in this pic

Last edited by Steves32; 07-21-2012 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:39 PM   #18
brownbagg
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

vapor barrier goes on top of sand- building code
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:21 PM   #19
Angelfire
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

Put the rebar in and run it up into a wall where you think you might want a panel later. Worst thing that happens is you spend a buck or two on a few feet of rebar only to cover it up with drywall. As for anchor bolts for your plates, sounds like spacing differs by jurisdiction. Mine nneded to be
within a foot of any corner (both sides of the corner) and 6' oc. Plus within 12" of where different plates meet. You may have to add a few epoxied in ones after the pour and during framing, but it's usually no big deal.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:28 AM   #20
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Default Re: Pouring my monolithic slab - how to tie in block wall?

"vapor barrier goes on top of sand- building code"
Varies, the idea of a layer of sand over the barrier is to cause slower cure on the bottom of the slab so surface cracking is alleviated, at least that is the theory.
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