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Old 01-13-2013, 06:25 PM   #1
krisway
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Default twisting wires

I'm in the process of adding electric heat to my garage. What is recommended when joining 12/2 wires with a marrette.....should you twist the wires before the marrette is installed? Or is it recommended not to twist the wires?

Also, when joining stranded copper wire to 12/2 wire, should I twist these wires and then add a marrette?
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: twisting wires

The only really well trained and schooled electrician I have worked with (2nd generation union) always twisted the wires and cut the end off so they are all even. Here on this forum someone went one better: twist an inch of wires and cut off all the marked up copper. Now, since the wirenut will leave some marks on the wire, I think this is a bit overkill.

But I'm not a really well trained and schooled electrician.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: twisting wires

My dad always twisted solid pairs or more. Stranded was wrapped into

the twisted pairs after twisting the solids. Solid and stranded were not

twisted, but kept straight. Every combination was final cut to the

proper length for the wirenut. That is how he did it, that is how I do

it. If working dockside, I pot the wirenut with RTV silicone, all wirenuts

are tucked so that if there is any water the wirenut will not hold water.

(Wirenut standing up.) Hope that answers your query.

Uncle Bob
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: twisting wires

Wire nuts if you keep twisting hard will twist the wires without that extra step.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: twisting wires

Some makes of connectors instructions state that pre-twisting is not nessasary, that being said I am a pre-twister. "Marrette" is Canuckistani lingo.

There are supposed to be instructions w/ connectors when they are sold.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: twisting wires

Pre-twist and snip the end flat...wire nut and then a few wraps of electrical tape for extra safety (not really necessary but it feels nice).
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: twisting wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by #1SomeGuy View Post
Pre-twist and snip the end flat...wire nut and then a few wraps of electrical tape for extra safety (not really necessary but it feels nice).
I LOATHE people that tape wire nuts.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:17 PM   #8
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I LOATHE people that tape wire nuts.
LoL why? Only a problem if you have to take things apart
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: twisting wires

Pre-twist and throw on some tan twisters

Last edited by dimarcelli; 01-13-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Originally Posted by #1SomeGuy View Post
Pre-twist and snip the end flat...wire nut and then a few wraps of electrical tape for extra safety (not really necessary but it feels nice).
If you are going to use electrical tape stay away from the bargain "10 for a $1" stuff. That is for fixing leaky garden hoses !

3M Super 88 is the best !
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: twisting wires

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I LOATHE people that tape wire nuts.
It is a alert that a moron was there before you. They were too inept to do the job right, the connectors will prob. fall off & there might be strands & exposed conductor peeking out from the bottom.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: twisting wires

If your combining stranded with solid wire, it helps to "lead" the stranded wire slightly. Especially if your joining one solid with one stranded. This keeps the stranded conductor from just wrapping around the solid conductor and not being gripped by the wire connector.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: twisting wires

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It is a alert that a moron was there before you. They were too inept to do the job right, the connectors will prob. fall off & there might be strands & exposed conductor peeking out from the bottom.
Interesting...obviously not calling me a moron though right? You could yank pretty hard on the wire/wire nuts and nothing would come apart. The electrical tape is just some OCD.

And yes of course, no cheapy $1 electrical tape for me, drives me insane.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I LOATHE people that tape wire nuts.
Agreed! Usually means the wire nuts they had were so oversized they don't even bite the conductors and the tape is the only thing keeping the nut on.

It also gets nasty sticky residue all over your hands every time you unwrap one.

Sent from the toilet using charmin ultra
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: twisting wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by #1SomeGuy View Post
Interesting...obviously not calling me a moron though right? You could yank pretty hard on the wire/wire nuts and nothing would come apart. The electrical tape is just some OCD.

And yes of course, no cheapy $1 electrical tape for me, drives me insane.
and thats why I use thread locker on my lug nuts so they dont fall off
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: twisting wires

So far I have learned that pre-twisting the wires, soldering them and then putting a wire nut covered with shrink tube is overkill.

Seriously, some of the wires in my house are soldered and taped. Not a wire nut to be found. Apparently they did things differently in the 20's. That was on BX type cable.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:31 PM   #17
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Default Re: twisting wires

I always twist wires with my linemans even if I'm using a wire nut. It only takes a few seconds longer and I just believe in doing it right.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Originally Posted by jhelrey View Post
Wire nuts if you keep twisting hard will twist the wires without that extra step.
Yes, but it takes a little extra skill to get them all lined up nice and parallel first, so they twist evenly.

This is how I usually do it, but there is one important step here. If a wire somehow slipped behind the others, it may not end up twisted with the rest of the pack. Once you have it nice and tight, give a good tug on each individual wire, to be sure they're all together, if you choose to do it this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky36000 View Post
If your combining stranded with solid wire, it helps to "lead" the stranded wire slightly. Especially if your joining one solid with one stranded. This keeps the stranded conductor from just wrapping around the solid conductor and not being gripped by the wire connector.
THIS is great advice! You cannot pre-twist a solid and stranded mix. The more flexible stranded will just wrap circles around the solid. The point of twisting is to get both wires to coil around each other, so they lock together.

One other piece of advice. Be very careful how you strip the wires. Put a nick where you strip a solid wire, and the whole end may want to break off. Do this in stranded, and you lose strands.

Quote:
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Seriously, some of the wires in my house are soldered and taped. Not a wire nut to be found. Apparently they did things differently in the 20's. That was on BX type cable.
In my house, I have cloth insulated BX with soldered connections. They twisted, soldered, and then held it together with a solid ceramic wire nut. It isn't bad if you don't plan on messing with it, but open it up, and things become a nightmare to work with.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:44 AM   #19
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Default Re: twisting wires

I agree. I always give each wire a tug before I know all connections are good
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:08 AM   #20
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Default Re: twisting wires

Always twist them before the Marrette goes on!

If you have to use tape for any reason, 3M Super 88 is the stuff!
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I LOATHE people that tape wire nuts.
I twist the wire nuts not the wires.
And yes I tape wire nuts when working around shaking/rattling machinery with super 33.
I also wrap plugs/switches with super 33
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:04 AM   #22
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Default Re: twisting wires

I give them enough twist to hold them in place then I screw the nut on and tighten with my linesmen pliers or one of those nut spinners pictured below. They work surprisingly well.

I never tape my nuts! (Okay that sounds wrong!) But I do run a couple loops of super 33 tape around recepticals and switches in multi-gang boxes or anything in a metal box...





(Not my pics, just stuff I stole off the net...)
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Originally Posted by #1SomeGuy View Post
Pre-twist and snip the end flat...wire nut and then a few wraps of electrical tape for extra safety (not really necessary but it feels nice).
This is how I was taught but also I always fold the end of the tape over so the next guy can find the end. I was taught this by an old time electrician when I was working in industrial maintenance.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:13 AM   #24
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Originally Posted by Tim The Tool Man View Post
I give them enough twist to hold them in place then I screw the nut on and tighten with my linesmen pliers or one of those nut spinners pictured below. ...)
Never seen that style of nut spinner before, is that Klein?

Tan twisters can be be tightened pretty well with a 5/16 chucked in a drill, fits on the end of the wire nut, wind her up
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:22 AM   #25
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Originally Posted by Norcal View Post
Some makes of connectors instructions state that pre-twisting is not nessasary, that being said I am a pre-twister. "Marrette" is Canuckistani lingo.


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Old 01-15-2013, 10:52 AM   #26
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Never seen that style of nut spinner before, is that Klein?
I think the one in the picture is Klein. Mine is a Greenlee.
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: twisting wires

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I think the one in the picture is Klein. Mine is a Greenlee.
It looks like a Klein, but I haven't seen that one either.
Ideal makes a 10-in-1 ratcheting type screwdriver, with a recess in the back of the handle that fits these wire nuts. I believe the insert is ratcheting too.

Honestly, I've never had to do so many that my fingers got tired of tightening the ones with the "wings". I do prefer the ones with the elongated rubber skirt, for better coverage. Never tape.

OTOH, if I'm I have any concern about these vibrating loose, I do not use tape or wire nuts. I'll either use the crimp version of these, or some sort of crimped fastener.
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: twisting wires

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I LOATHE people that tape wire nuts.
X2! Really not needed and feels so hacked up!
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:56 PM   #29
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Default Re: twisting wires

Why do you Canucks insist on calling all wire nuts by a particular brand name?

Oh, wait ...
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: twisting wires

I twist stranded to be more solid if attatching to solid, and sometimes I use rubber splicing tape (yeah the real pia stuff- sometimes I even can't stand myself..) when I feel it is needed.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:25 PM   #31
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Default Re: twisting wires

Who ever knew it could grow into so many responses....

Tape on any Nut is a hack (or universally seen as a hack).

Solid on Solid. I always twist, cut and then nut. Old habits are hard to change.
On 2-3 wires, I twist up to the bare. If I've got let's say a bundle of 5 , I'll twist till 1" of the insulated is twisting.

Stranded on Solid. I just wrap the stranded with the nut....and the nut takes care of everythng.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:11 AM   #32
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Why do you Canucks insist on calling all wire nuts by a particular brand name?

Oh, wait ...
Like Wirenuts®

If recessed cans are called "pot lights" or calling wire nuts "Marrettes" we know they are Canukistani.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:19 AM   #33
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Why do you Canucks insist on calling all wire nuts by a particular brand name?

Oh, wait ...
Sorry dude, never knew Marrette was a brand name.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:56 AM   #34
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Default Re: twisting wires

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Originally Posted by krisway View Post
I'm in the process of adding electric heat to my garage. What is recommended when joining 12/2 wires with a marrette.....should you twist the wires before the marrette is installed? Or is it recommended not to twist the wires?
YES.

You will get as many answers pro as con. Just make sure they are tight with no bare copper showing, and use the right size wire nut.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:26 PM   #35
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Just FYI kids. . ."Wire-nut" is as much a brand name as "Marrette" is.

They are technically called "pressure wire connector" or "twist on wire connector".

Marrette is the brand name used by the company that invented them.

Search Canadian home depot site. . .all marrette. American there are none.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:43 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by KPSquared View Post
Just FYI kids. . ."Wire-nut" is as much a brand name as "Marrette" is.

They are technically called "pressure wire connector" or "twist on wire connector".

Marrette is the brand name used by the company that invented them.

Search Canadian home depot site. . .all marrette. American there are none.
Just to poke some fun, a American company, T&B owns them.

http://www.tnb.ca/en/products/marrette-wire-connectors/
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:46 PM   #37
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I saw that. They actually invented them. Strange that an American invention isn't sold in America. I wonder what the story is?

I know Henry Ford killed Robertsons chances (square drive bits). . . Maybe the same tale?
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:30 PM   #38
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I saw that. They actually invented them. Strange that an American invention isn't sold in America. I wonder what the story is?

I know Henry Ford killed Robertsons chances (square drive bits). . . Maybe the same tale?
20+ years ago, I used some Marrette brand connectors, did not like them, prefer Ideal Wingnuts.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:49 AM   #39
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20+ years ago, I used some Marrette brand connectors, did not like them, prefer Ideal Wingnuts.
Ya, the extra grip on the Wing Nuts is really nice. . .I just use my well developed man grip on the Marrette's and I'm fine. . .
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:29 AM   #40
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Ya, the extra grip on the Wing Nuts is really nice. . .I just use my well developed man grip on the Marrette's and I'm fine. . .


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Old 03-01-2013, 11:34 AM   #41
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Default Re: twisting wires

I too find standard Marrettes a pain to twist tight if I've got larger size/larger number of wires to joint. I had a few wing-nut type of connectors I used up and they were much easier to use. I got cheap and bought boxes of 50 of 3 sizes of regular Marrette's I'm slowly using up. I won't buy them again. What will I use? This:

http://www.idealindustries.ca/media/...ENG%200607.pdf

The best of both worlds: winged, yet still small, and a nice large wire size range. I'm sold!

BTW: I twisted-then-nutted in the past, then changed to not twisting, but I find I need to use my lineman's pliers to get a tight fit on a large nut with big wires anyway, so I've been slowly going back to twisting. But when I tried these Can-Twist wire nuts I don't have to pre-twist.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:35 PM   #42
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Those look great. Might have to hunt them down.
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