Welcome to the The Garage Journal Board forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   The Garage Journal Board > The Garage > General Garage Discussion

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-22-2013, 02:49 PM   #1
srmofo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SW ohio
Posts: 5,504
Default Roof and Flashing help on small shed

Im just finishing up a small utility shed on the side of my house. The house is wrapped in vinyl and the shed in T1-11. The shed has a single pitch slanted roof and is free standing and I do not want to anchor it to the house in any way. However I have left a small air gap (3") between the shed and vinyl siding on the house. I over lapped the roof sheeting to bring the gap down to <1" or so.

For the last partial row of shingles I was thinking of just using roofing tar in a tube to "glue" them down. I have done this on the front of my house where the porch roof meets the house. Its much more subjected to wind and weather than the area my shed is at and it has held up fine. On the front of my house I also had a piece of flashing bent into an L and fastening it to the roof and siding to shed the water off the siding and onto the roof.

I was thinking of doing this same thing on the shed but since the 2 structures are not connected Im not so sure how well it will work UNLESS I caulk the flashing to the siding.

Anybody have any other ideas? Would you caulk it to the siding and tar it to the roof? Use a piece of drip edge bent downward and just let the water continue its path down behind the shed?

I built it so the roof comes in right under one of the "slats" on the siding so theoretically it will drip onto any flashing secured there

Ignore all the spots of silver roofing tar on the siding. When I first moved in 11 years ago I had it redone and the guy doing nearly slid off the 2nd story roof. He made it but the bucket didnt. Needless to say it went EVERYWHERE.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20130822_102346_262.jpg (151.0 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20130822_102417_994.jpg (151.1 KB, 101 views)
srmofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 04:21 PM   #2
TwoInch
Senior Member
 
TwoInch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW INDIANA
Posts: 2,598
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

i have done a fair amount of roofing, but nothing like that, so i cant give a proper advice.

if i had to do it, i would fashion a drip edge off the back side to let the water off in a controlled manner. i would probably not flash it into the siding of the house. depending on what side of the house, and the design/eaves/soffit etc... it shouldne get much water at all. but without seeing the whole picture, its hard to say.

i would also run another short course at the top, covering the strip on the shingle below, making it look complete. then use ultima, or your preferred roof caulk and seal that last course like you mentioned.

what was the reason the shed was not built a few more inches away form the existing sided wall?
__________________
[B]LOOKING FOR -

Craftsman Professional 11mm and 19mm combos, Danaher USA style.

JH Williams - M-52 1/4" ratchet.

Last edited by TwoInch; 08-22-2013 at 04:24 PM.
TwoInch is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-22-2013, 04:42 PM   #3
TwoInch
Senior Member
 
TwoInch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW INDIANA
Posts: 2,598
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

noticed too, you need to space your nails properly, and run a 6" or so stagger, so that where the shingles but together on the side does not line up for a few courses. they should not be staggered at the half point so that every second course is inline. thats how leaks form.

stagger should look like this, although these are 3-tabs, same stagger with your architectural. the nail pattern for the picture working right to left would be like this, first nail is within 1" of shingle edge, second nail would be about 8"-10" to the left, and the third fourth and fifth would be evenly spaced from there over. so essentially the first and second nail have a large gap, then the rest are just a few inches apart. this keeps the nail hole from being close to the butt joint of the two shingles directly below it. some guys still do an even spacing all the way across, but there are better ways. always make sure all nails hit the strip too, the shingle is twice as thick in that one spot, and thats what keeps it from blowing off. too low or two high and you are in single layer. hitting the line also catches the shingle below also, so each gets two rows of nails. high nails only get the one row. i see you hit the line just right, but it looks like only 4 nails per shingle, and the two end nails need to be closer to the end. your gap on nail one and two look about right, but throw another nail in(5) and space them closer together on the one side, depending on which direction your stagger is going.



edit - and i do realize this is just a shed. just sharing some info for future use if you end up on a roof again.
__________________
[B]LOOKING FOR -

Craftsman Professional 11mm and 19mm combos, Danaher USA style.

JH Williams - M-52 1/4" ratchet.

Last edited by TwoInch; 08-22-2013 at 04:47 PM.
TwoInch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 04:52 PM   #4
bczygan
Senior Member
 
bczygan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Overlooking The Abyss
Posts: 5,748
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

Flash and counter-flash.

All shedding of water should be mechanical.

Caulking or sealing should be a secondary back-up only.

You need an "L" shaped piece of flashing with one leg sloped like the roof slope. It should extend at least 4" or 5" onto the roof and 4" up the wall. Bed it in roofing mastic and nail it to the roof.
A second piece of flashing slips up under the siding, is nailed to the wall, and comes down the wall to cover the vertical portion of the first piece.

These 2 pieces can move independent of each other.

__________________
We either build or destroy the world we want to live in, with our every word and gesture.

Last edited by bczygan; 08-22-2013 at 05:04 PM.
bczygan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:05 PM   #5
CNGsaves
Senior Member
 
CNGsaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: KS and OK
Posts: 5,416
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

Should be flashing on building that goes on top of shingles, then the last row of shingles are cosmetic (basically). There's no need for any tar at seam of vinyl siding and shingles as there should be 100% safety factor of flashing underneath that.

It's all about "timing" of when you are putting on siding, you don't just side all the way up house and do roof later. You need to instead both in concert with each other. Thus, there is very little chance for water leak as you would have tar paper in L shape from house to roof, then flashing, and finally shingles. The siding would go on top of flashing on house so it too would not have any chance of leaking.

Hopefully a guru will explain it better than I have so far.

Edit: BCZYGAN pic above is very good !!
CNGsaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:29 PM   #6
bczygan
Senior Member
 
bczygan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Overlooking The Abyss
Posts: 5,748
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

He can actually remove a row or two of siding in this area to install the counter-flashing.
They make a tool that will hook under and unzip it, or you can just use a flat bladed screwdriver.
I might be temped to use a couple of pieces of ice and water seal for insurance.
__________________
We either build or destroy the world we want to live in, with our every word and gesture.
bczygan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 05:56 PM   #7
TwoInch
Senior Member
 
TwoInch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NW INDIANA
Posts: 2,598
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

from my understanding, the shed is not at all attached to the sided building, and the top of the roof is slightly extended to close the gap. am i correct here?
__________________
[B]LOOKING FOR -

Craftsman Professional 11mm and 19mm combos, Danaher USA style.

JH Williams - M-52 1/4" ratchet.
TwoInch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:12 PM   #8
Zeke
Senior Member
 
Zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Senior Member—in more ways than one.
Posts: 8,915
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

Quote:
Originally Posted by bczygan View Post
He can actually remove a row or two of siding in this area to install the counter-flashing.
They make a tool that will hook under and unzip it, or you can just use a flat bladed screwdriver.
I might be temped to use a couple of pieces of ice and water seal for insurance.
I don't think he needs a counter flashing. Just doing as you say and tucking in a piece and letting it float over the shed roof. Some water may blow under but hopefully he can use a flap to run any of that over the lower siding courses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoInch View Post
from my understanding, the shed is not at all attached to the sided building, and the top of the roof is slightly extended to close the gap. am i correct here?
That appears to be the situation.
Zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 07:20 PM   #9
Garage Dog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 352
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

The idea of flashing and counter flashing is a valid option, but seems like a lot of work for a shed that isn't tied into the house in any other way.

If you tie the shed into the house, there are also potential issues down the road. (sorry, I don't know if it freezes in SW Ohio) but even shifting, sinking of shed could affect the house/siding being able to shed water even if it floats in theory.

I would take a piece of flashing, find a guy with a break to bend it for you and flash over the top edge of the shed (in place of ridge cap/shingles) given the space you have without tying into the house siding. I just don't see the benefit.

GD
Garage Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 07:27 PM   #10
NUTTSGT
Super Moderator
 
NUTTSGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bucyrus, Oh
Posts: 17,863
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

Are we talking a shed close to the house or a a shed roof on a house addition.I'm guessing the first.
__________________
ERIC

Too much is.... Just enough.

My garage refurb thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=75024


Are you military or prior military ? Please visit OUR thread and post your experience.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=64422


Take a look what your USA honorable service may have done for you.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=100237
NUTTSGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 08:44 PM   #11
RickP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 302
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

Quote:
Originally Posted by srmofo View Post
For the last partial row of shingles I was thinking of just using roofing tar in a tube to "glue" them down.
When you say "partial row" do you mean shingles that are cut to be about 4-5 inches tall, then glued down all along the top of that picture? That sounds like it will work great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srmofo View Post
I built it so the roof comes in right under one of the "slats" on the siding so theoretically it will drip onto any flashing secured there.
I don't think you should tie the two structures together at all, especially with the flashing.

I would use "Z" flashing secured to the house, under a row of the siding. If the bottom of the "Z" extends out over the shingles by 1 inch, you shouldn't have any leaks, and you shouldn't have to secure it to the roof.

If you're worried about the wind driving rain up under the "Z" flashing, you could add another "L" flashing on top of the partial row of shingles right at the top of the roof. If the top of the "L" goes up behind the bottom of the "Z" then the water shouldn't be able to get over the "L" flashing.
RickP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 06:55 PM   #12
rodm1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,979
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoInch View Post
noticed too, you need to space your nails properly, and run a 6" or so stagger, so that where the shingles but together on the side does not line up for a few courses. they should not be staggered at the half point so that every second course is inline. thats how leaks form.

stagger should look like this, although these are 3-tabs, same stagger with your architectural. the nail pattern for the picture working right to left would be like this, first nail is within 1" of shingle edge, second nail would be about 8"-10" to the left, and the third fourth and fifth would be evenly spaced from there over. so essentially the first and second nail have a large gap, then the rest are just a few inches apart. this keeps the nail hole from being close to the butt joint of the two shingles directly below it. some guys still do an even spacing all the way across, but there are better ways. always make sure all nails hit the strip too, the shingle is twice as thick in that one spot, and thats what keeps it from blowing off. too low or two high and you are in single layer. hitting the line also catches the shingle below also, so each gets two rows of nails. high nails only get the one row. i see you hit the line just right, but it looks like only 4 nails per shingle, and the two end nails need to be closer to the end. your gap on nail one and two look about right, but throw another nail in(5) and space them closer together on the one side, depending on which direction your stagger is going.
I bet that is why my shed is leaking or part of it. It is a low pitch roof all sow. Thanks
rodm1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 05:14 AM   #13
CNGsaves
Senior Member
 
CNGsaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: KS and OK
Posts: 5,416
Default Re: Roof and Flashing help on small shed

^ ^ ^ Yep, TwoInch has keen eye to notice that OP didn't have proper stagger on the 3 rows in picture. If you have low profile roof, poor stagger is surefire way to have problem. May need to consider roll roofing instead of conventional shingles.

RE stagger: All houses I've roofed with my carpenter brother, we cut off starter row "set" as follows:
. . . full shingle, 4" cutoff, 8" cutoff, and 12" cutoff
. . . .then repeat after those 4 are installed

This staggers out the joints and makes for good looking roof.

Never have had any leaks at all.
CNGsaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:38 AM.