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Old 02-07-2014, 02:15 PM   #1
ishiboo
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Default Planting grass

Each year, I see dozens of contractors build buildings, roads, etc… lay down some grass seed in their crappy soil and leave it never to be watered. It germinates and in a couple weeks looks great.

Every time I plant grass, I take the time to do everything right - the proper amount of starter fertilizer, right time of the year, quality grass seed, frequent light waterings to keep the ground moist, etc. And the grass never turns out.

This spring I am planting about 2 acres of grass total. ~1 acre is new lawn on the house and there's 550 yards of topsoil spread over it. Another acre is farm field where I want to grow some tall ground cover grasses and nothing expensive.

I purchased a LandPride 6' seeder. Any tricks anyone has for growing a lot of grass easily? I ran two 1" water pipes to each side of the new lawn area as well as the center, so I don't think watering will be a problem. The ground is mostly pitched towards the center where there's a 6" perforated drain tile.
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Planting grass

BTW, I've read all the basics, I know about straw/etc… looking for anything else you've found. I think I'm actually too careful when I plant which causes more problems than not :P

About 1.5 acres around my barn was overgrown, I cut it down and started mowing it and it's fine which also cutting more than 1/3rd of grass is supposed to kill it… not sure why but I have much better luck being reckless! But I don't want to waste all this money on seed (which is NOT cheap) and fertilizer as well as have an unusable lawn in summer.
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: Planting grass

they use annual rye grass it grows quick looks good but dies real fast
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Planting grass

Something not mentioned is what species of grass you're growing, as well as variety. There are many different species with different strengths/weaknesses, and many varieties within each species. Choosing the correct one for your climate and soil is very important.

Any number of things could be hurting, including over watering. Also, by "never turns out", what exactly do you mean? At what point does the grass die? Or is it simply not growing at all?
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: Planting grass

The contractors in my area do the same thing, however it only looks good from a distance. Once up close and looking down on it there are a ton of bare spots and weeds poking through. The half-way decent looking seed jobs come from owners who water it regularly, but even those still have some spots. I spoke with my neighbor who seeded and it took him years of overseeding to completely fill in.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Planting grass

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Originally Posted by Kyle.B View Post
Something not mentioned is what species of grass you're growing, as well as variety. There are many different species with different strengths/weaknesses, and many varieties within each species. Choosing the correct one for your climate and soil is very important.
Very true. I had a friend who used to build and landscape golf courses select the seed for me at the very end of last season, and from what I've read the two mixes he selected are correctly optimal for my location.

He won't be helping with the planting though.

Quote:
Any number of things could be hurting, including over watering. Also, by "never turns out", what exactly do you mean? At what point does the grass die? Or is it simply not growing at all?
Typically I have large amounts that fail to germinate (not growing at all.) I've tried over and under watering what I've been told is the "correct" amount for the same results :P Grass is allergic to me, and I'm allergic to grass!
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Planting grass

Call your agricultural extension office. They usually have the best local to you knowledge for your area. Sometimes I have heard they even have local native seed (been along time since I heard that though ). Or a university ag class has great info. Texas A&M has a great source of info here for native drought tolerant grasses
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: Planting grass

Yep to this!
[ QUOTE=dawgee;3726779]they use annual rye grass it grows quick looks good but dies real fast[/QUOTE]




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Old 02-07-2014, 03:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Planting grass

I'd like to know the secret too. I don't use annual grass and it takes me 3 years to get decent grass covering. Never less.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: Planting grass

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Originally Posted by LigouriRd View Post
The contractors in my area do the same thing, however it only looks good from a distance. Once up close and looking down on it there are a ton of bare spots and weeds poking through. The half-way decent looking seed jobs come from owners who water it regularly, but even those still have some spots. I spoke with my neighbor who seeded and it took him years of overseeding to completely fill in.
Very true. I did landscaping on new constructions for a few years. It takes 2-3 years to grow a lawn from scratch. You can put the seed in a freezer for 24 hours before planting. It'll knock a day or two off germination time. If I were seeding I would roll the whole area after seeding. Soil contact and water are most important.


Personally I would never bare seed that large of an area. Hydroseed it is my recommendation.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:08 PM   #11
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Default Re: Planting grass

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Very true. I had a friend who used to build and landscape golf courses select the seed for me at the very end of last season, and from what I've read the two mixes he selected are correctly optimal for my location.

He won't be helping with the planting though.



Typically I have large amounts that fail to germinate (not growing at all.) I've tried over and under watering what I've been told is the "correct" amount for the same results :P Grass is allergic to me, and I'm allergic to grass!

Well the first step would be to find out what kind of grass it is, down to the variety if possible, as different types will want somewhat different treatment. I would imagine it's probably a Fescue or Bluegrass in that region. Even within a region there can be a lot of variability in the soil, not to mention things like shade levels. As far as putting out fertilizer the first thing I always recommend is to have your soil tested to find out whats actually going on. Most universities with an Ag program can offer this service. Just make sure you follow the sampling instructions well in order to get something representative. Are you raking the seed into the ground after spreading?

Most grasses will spread pretty rapidly if you're giving them all their needs and wants. Mowing schedule also plays a big part in that. But that will come after you actually get something to come up.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Planting grass

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Originally Posted by ishiboo View Post
... I don't want to waste all this money on seed (which is NOT cheap) and fertilizer as well as have an unusable lawn in summer.
I'm no expert, but I have replanted a couple of lawns (much smaller than what you are talking about) with good success in the past 3 or 4 years. I also live in the midwest, SE MI.

I have successfully reseeded my lawn and my son's lawnwith 100% bluegrass. Most places will sell you what is called "sunny mix" which is typically less than 33% bluegrass. Bluegrass is more difficult because it is slow to germinate.

First, I prefer seeding in fall after Labor Day , for sure, but no later than mid-October.

Second, rototill or rake deeply. You have to break up the soil. I happen to have access to unlimited amounts of composted horse manure. The key is COMPOSTED ! No smell, but still very "rich". It's only a matter of hauling and spreading. At least 1/2-1". rake it lightly. I do cover it with hay (yes hay, not straw, because that's what my rancher buddy has).

Third, keep it damp by light watering 2-3 times a day for the first 7-10 days.

Don' touch it !

Around April 1, I give it a good shot of 19-19-19 "farm" fertilizer. If there are any real bad spots, I will replant them a couple of weeks after this. I may give it a second shot of 19-19-19, but no later than mid May and only if normal temps and rainfall are forecasted.

It will look a bit thin for the rest of that year. Fertilize as typical the rest of the year. I also use 19-19-19 as my fall fertilizer, after October 1.

It really won't look "great" until the second year.

Last edited by theoldwizard1; 02-07-2014 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Planting grass

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Personally I would never bare seed that large of an area. Hydroseed it is my recommendation.
Only way to go for large areas ! The combination of seed, water, fertilizer and a "bonder" works great.

Some places will rent you a hydroseeder.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Planting grass

Last fall I reseeded my front lawn successfully for the first time.
I followed the advice on this site:

http://aroundtheyard.com/forum.html

Read the "Cool season grasses" and "Lawn renovation forums".
There are true experts on there who will help you.

Also this:

http://aroundtheyard.com/home1/faqs/...blishment.html

Last edited by bw77; 02-07-2014 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Planting grass

It will take about two years to get a good stand of grass. I've tried grass seed without straw, and with straw. Undoubtedly, straw works better, because it will hold the moisture into the seeds. Early Spring, or late Fall is the best time to sew grass seed. Myself, I always spread it by hand and I always spread it heavy. The last couple years though have been tough on lawns because we went into drought conditions. Once mid July rolled around, things started drying up. And when you have more than a postage stamp size lot, it just takes too much to keep it watered.

My problem is that when I mow, I like to see a lawn mowed. The guy the fertilizes our lawn keeps telling me that I am cutting the lawn too short. I've never been one though that cuts the grass at three inches tall. But if you would leave the grass taller, it does actually help.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: Planting grass

I thought this would be another Colorado habitat house thread by the title.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Planting grass

I have done this quite a few times and each time it comes out very full and perfect. Here is my process.

First I loosen up the ground with a rototiller. Helps that I have a 3pt tiller on the back of my tractor. Till it up real soft. Then I go back over it with a spring type harrow. I make a chainlink drag with rebar on both sides to keep it flat. Tie a few bricks on it to weight it down a little. Go over that multiple directions a few time. Next I put the seed and fertilizer down. Then I go over it again with the drag... Then I seed it again. Then pack it down really good. Take a weighted roller or just drive over it a whole bunch to pack it down. You can use a land scape rake vertically and pack it down that way, but its a lot of work for a big area obviously. If you do this and keep the soil damp all the time it will grow in perfect and very thick....

I'm not an AG guy, just like nice grass. This has always worked well for me.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Planting grass

Fooled again. I thought you were from Co or Wa and wanted some tips on homegrown grass.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Planting grass

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I thought this would be another Colorado habitat house thread by the title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross/Kzoo View Post
Fooled again. I thought you were from Co or Wa and wanted some tips on homegrown grass.
I thought the same thing, I never did find out what a pack of "smokes" cost
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: Planting grass

Thanks guys, lots of good advice! I got quotes on both sod and hydro, nobody is really interested in doing the hydro for some reason and it's quite expensive. I'd like to learn the process as I also have some repair areas and will continually have areas I need to plant

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98ramtough View Post
I have done this quite a few times and each time it comes out very full and perfect. Here is my process.

First I loosen up the ground with a rototiller. Helps that I have a 3pt tiller on the back of my tractor. Till it up real soft. Then I go back over it with a spring type harrow. I make a chainlink drag with rebar on both sides to keep it flat. Tie a few bricks on it to weight it down a little. Go over that multiple directions a few time. Next I put the seed and fertilizer down. Then I go over it again with the drag... Then I seed it again. Then pack it down really good. Take a weighted roller or just drive over it a whole bunch to pack it down. You can use a land scape rake vertically and pack it down that way, but its a lot of work for a big area obviously. If you do this and keep the soil damp all the time it will grow in perfect and very thick....

I'm not an AG guy, just like nice grass. This has always worked well for me.
That's close to my process I have planned as well. I actually prepared the bed last year and it worked out well but I didn't have time to plant… used my 6' KK tiller on the tractor to till, then the landscape rake to even out with a piece of chain link dragging behind it. The seed bed looked pretty good.

The LandPride planter has packer wheels/etc., so it will do the entire seeding in one process on the prepared seedbed. I'll probably spread the fertilizer with my push spreader and then use the chain link drag to smooth/mix it in a bit, then plant.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Planting grass

I've had good results spreading seed on/in the snow. My grandfather said the first or last snow of winter are the best times for planting grass and that has worked well for me. No special prep and no watering due to seasonal conditions.

Late spring or early fall I till, spread the seed and run a light (1/3 full) roller over it.
You want the surface of each seed in contact with the soil.
I do water it but not much.

Lots of seed mixes include rye because it will germinate and grow quickly providing cover for the other grasses. The rye grass will die off after the first year.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:39 PM   #22
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Default Re: Planting grass

Based on the results of my extensive efforts last year to get the St. Augustine going good and some Bermuda to compete with it and handle the heat here - I suggest you go ahead and plant the crab grass right away and get it over with. Talk about a war.

Won't really work for the OP but the best method around here is to buy a pallet of fresh Bermuda, lay it out on scraped earth and water the hell out of it. Before July.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: Planting grass

A lot of people don't like the grass but have u considered zoysia plugs?
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: Planting grass

Buy more than you need.

Spread it buy hand, thick. Half what you sow isn't going to come up. Half of what does come up will die off. Water it inthe morning and again at night.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:22 PM   #25
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Default Re: Planting grass

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Buy more than you need.

Spread it buy hand, thick. Half what you sow isn't going to come up. Half of what does come up will die off. Water it inthe morning and again at night.
A lot of people make the mistake of spreadin too much seed. If too many seeds germinate in a small area they will all die out quickly. There's just not room for the roots.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:30 AM   #26
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Default Re: Planting grass

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I'd like to learn the process as I also have some repair areas and will continually have areas I need to plant
Composted manure after rototilling and rolling/leveling ! Never had much luck before until I tried that.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:42 AM   #27
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Default Re: Planting grass

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That's close to my process I have planned as well.
My brother was an expert in MN, as I see your in WI this should help.
Simple: use 10 times the seed your typical bags calls for. Mix it in well with the loose soil.
Water, water, water every day for the first three weeks. Just don't let it create puddles and then run off with your seed.
Only use started fertilizer, and use crab grass killer when the soil hits 50 degrees.
Did I say water? Yeah don't skip a day, as that seed cost you plenty.

I like Kentucky Blue grass, make sure you check the bag as a lot use cheap rye fillers.

Last edited by Mr.N; 02-10-2014 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:44 AM   #28
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Composted manure after rototilling and rolling/leveling ! Never had much luck before until I tried that.
X2
If I have a bad spot I take a sholve and dig down 6", replace with compost and dirt. Then the top 1/2" I use 1/3 compost, 1/3 sand $ 1/3 seed.
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:57 AM   #29
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Default Re: Planting grass

I have found a foolproof method to get a solid stand of grass.

First till up a section, then go thru the tilled part on your hand and knees and remove every blade of grass or stubble. Rake the area and repeat.

Plant 5 or 6 tomato plants and water only the tomato plants.

The complete entire area will be covered in grass in just a couple of weeks, including the spots where the tomato plants are.

Happens to me every year.
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:58 AM   #30
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Default Re: Planting grass

Quote:
Second, rototill or rake deeply. You have to break up the soil. I happen to have access to unlimited amounts of composted horse manure. The key is COMPOSTED ! No smell, but still very "rich". It's only a matter of hauling and spreading. At least 1/2-1". rake it lightly. I do cover it with hay (yes hay, not straw, because that's what my rancher buddy has).
ding ding ding - winner!
Break the soil up. hand sow seed heavy-ish, rack again, water in the evenings

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Old 02-10-2014, 07:22 AM   #31
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It's all about the soil. Have a textural and organic analysis done as well as a ph and nutrient analysis. This can usually be done by your local agricultural coop or State University. Amend your soil as recommended. The best time to plant is late summer/early fall.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:49 AM   #32
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Default Re: Planting grass

Interesting info that I may need to refer to sometime . Does anyone have any pictures of their lawns that they used their methods on ?
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: Planting grass

Where are these contractors that do this? I had a house built and was on my own. You just try and seed 1 acre and keep it watered. Not fun.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:19 PM   #34
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I use Scott's grass seed. With grass seed, like anything else, you get what you pay for. Get the type with bluegrass. As someone said, if it only has rye, it will die out quickly. With Scott's, you don't put straw down on top of it. It has the fertilizer right on the seed, making it white in color. And Scotts will tell you that straw will hold too much water down and wash the fertilizer away. One other thing. I don't let a sprinkler sit and run all day. I go out in the yard several times a day and just wet it down- keeping the soil moist. I never let it set in big puddles. That will wash the seed set into piles and cause bare spots. If I have a large area to do, I just do a portion at a time. That way I don't have to spend that much time watering it. If it is going to be in the shade, then get the bag that says, "SUN AND SHADE". The grass seed that is out now will grow on a sidewalk. So, there is no reason not to have seed/grass that won't grow.
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:42 AM   #35
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Scratching it in with a rake has always worked for me.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:27 AM   #36
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What works in one area won't work in another. I can go less than 20 miles from my house and run into several different soil types.
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