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Old 12-11-2008, 01:03 AM   #1
ossaguy
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Default Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Today I had a heck of a time getting two riding mower-sized tires to completely pop up on the bead on their rims.I was able to do it with lots of soap,and repositioning the tire,and fast-filling it without the core in it with a non-osha approved-type blow gun,but gosh,I was afraid it would explode with how much air I had to fill it with.This has happened more often than not,and kills the labor flatrate time,as it took several tries,and I don't want to get injured by exploding a tire.so I thought Ii'd post a question here to ask if there is a tool,or better way I can solve this.Thanks for any tips.
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Are the tires not sealing/reaching the rim when your trying to fill them with air? Or are they sealing on the rim but taking excessive air to seat the tire?

If they aren't sealing/reaching, it helps to wrap a piece of rope around the diameter of the tire and tighten it. This will suck the middle of the tire in(tread) and push out the sidewalls to seal on the rim.

There are tools for getting the beads to pop up and seal, but they are made for big trucks. ( air tanks w/gate valves, air rings that lay on sidewall and shoot a sudden blast around the bead) I've never seen any as small as 8" -12"

I don't know exactly what tires you are working on. Im guessing it is for a riding mower "riding mower-sized tires" and not ten ply forklift tires that are mower sized.

Last edited by jjkrjh; 12-11-2008 at 02:25 AM.
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

rope or ratchet strap around it, bouncing it, taking the valve core out, there's a "wax" type stuff you can pack around it to make an artificial seal until the bead seats, cheetah tank, etc.

Of course, there's another trick, but...I'm sure somebody wouldn't like it if it was mentioned. I used it to get the 10 ply tires on my garden tractor.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

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Originally Posted by nissan_crawler View Post
Of course, there's another trick, but...I'm sure somebody wouldn't like it if it was mentioned. I used it to get the 10 ply tires on my garden tractor.
I have done it as well but I'm not sure I want to cause someone to blow some part of their anatomy off. The other tips are all effective and safe though.
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:01 AM   #5
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

I have yet to see anyone injure themselves with the starting fluid and the lighter method. Its easy and effective. I used to do it daily to mount tyres for not only cars but commercials as well.
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

I have watched "others" apply a gentle spritz of ether and then click an electric lighter to rapidly inflate a small tire to seat the bead.
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

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Originally Posted by chammyman View Post
I have yet to see anyone injure themselves with the starting fluid and the lighter method. Its easy and effective. I used to do it daily to mount tyres for not only cars but commercials as well.
I cannot picture how this would work.... never seen it done is all.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

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I cannot picture how this would work.... never seen it done is all.
I've seen it done on TV and heard about people doing it, but I would NOT use it as a normal method. The guy I saw on TV was driving a large 4x4 over ice, and he had large balloon tires that were running very low psi to increase their traction on the ice, and he kept popping the tires off the bead. So, he'd get out of the truck, jack the truck up and take the wheel off- then shoot a shot of ether (starting fluid) into the gap between the wheel + tire, and throw a match on it.

The resulting explosion was pretty dramatic, but it worked to re-seat the bead of the tire and he was able to mount the wheel back on the truck and continue on his way. I saw him do this several times on this show.

Like I said, I would consider this a method of last resort, and I would be VERY VERY VERY careful should you decide to try it. Ether is some explosive, volatile stuff!!



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Old 12-11-2008, 05:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

lol rigmaster your living in make belive land.

Put thwe tyre one. anyone who actually works in the trade will know tyres sometimes sit for a while before being fitted worse on the higher the profile, the sidewalls at the bead can almost touch. Now you won't get those to seat, even with a bead seater

A bead seater is a tank fileld with compressed air and a snout and a valve, open the vale and air rushes in and seats the tyre, they can be good but costly as you need to not only buy it but fill it with compressed air.

Anywya tyre ona nd beads nowhere near seated, spray easy start or something round the wheel, not a gallon or anything, don't soak it in petrol, just a light spray, then light it and the tyre will pop onto the bead. Normally a subtle pop is all you get.
You then need to pumpt he tyre up as normally at best it'll have 5 psi in it.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Since the cat is out of the bag...I've done it countless times without issue. There are several tips to do it "safely" and make it work, however, in this day and age, I'm not comfortable posting them for the world to read.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:29 AM   #11
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

I have to bead tires all the time for my karts. (5" & 6" rim) Use to scare me, but not so bad anymore. I have buddies that will hold them in their hand while they bead them. Not me. Mine go on the floor with my foot across the top of the rim.
Before you start, make sure your your beads are as even as possible as they sit. No way to get a tire to bead if it's cocked on the rim. I use a little soap and water to help them slide up more easily, and just shoot the air in as fast as possible. Once you get them to seat (even if they aren't beaded), a lot of times you can get them to go the rest of the way by bouncing them or sitting them in the sun for a little while. I prefer to leave the stem in during fill just in case it seats but doesn't bead. Normally takes about 80 PSI to bead my tires that run at 12-15 PSI.
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:14 AM   #12
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Quote:
Originally Posted by chammyman View Post
lol rigmaster your living in make belive land.

Put thwe tyre one. anyone who actually works in the trade will know tyres sometimes sit for a while before being fitted worse on the higher the profile, the sidewalls at the bead can almost touch. Now you won't get those to seat, even with a bead seater

A bead seater is a tank fileld with compressed air and a snout and a valve, open the vale and air rushes in and seats the tyre, they can be good but costly as you need to not only buy it but fill it with compressed air.

Anywya tyre ona nd beads nowhere near seated, spray easy start or something round the wheel, not a gallon or anything, don't soak it in petrol, just a light spray, then light it and the tyre will pop onto the bead. Normally a subtle pop is all you get.
You then need to pumpt he tyre up as normally at best it'll have 5 psi in it.

Not sure how you know where I live, but I know what I saw, and it was impressive.



Maybe they sprayed a little extra ether in there for dramatic effect (TV), but it was a pretty big pop and the wheel + tire jumped off the ground a bit.



BTW, I know what a bead seater is, I mount and dismount tires all the time, but I've never done the ether method.


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Old 12-11-2008, 08:09 AM   #13
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

A small tractor tire is a bear to do. Been there, done that many times. The simplest way, if you are going to do it on a full time basis is to use an air cannon. Same thing they use to seat the bead on a semi tire. Basically an air pig, ball valve, a large steel tube with a flat nozzle on the end. Pump up the pig and when you release the ball valve it dumps all of the air at once seating the tire bead on both sides. I fought for three hours one day on one small garden tractor tire on front of my John Deere. I took the other out to my nephews and in less than five minutes he had the old off, new on and seated and done. But the tire does need to be stationary when you hit it with the air cannon as it will send the tire scooting across the ground. I never thought you could use something like that on a a small tire but you can use it on any tire to seat the bead if need be. It will evev seat a large tractor tire. The science behind it is dumping all of the air at once so it pushes the bead out. And it does not over inflate the tire in doing so.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

How about we start simple, is the rim completely clean and free of any large nicks or paint runs where the bead would seal? I've seen many times someone's tire having a slow leak and it ended up being an issue with the rim and not the process they used to seal the bead. I just use soapy water on the rim and higher than normal psi to get it to pop. Works like a charm as long as the rim is in tip-top shape.

Just don't spray an entire can of ether in the tire like this tard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI38RZ2f6Ls
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

It seems Ken Tool is the Snapon of tools specific to the tire industry; they have been around forever and sell anything you would need for mounting/dismounting tires.
http://www.kentool.com/

These tire irons looks pretty awesome: http://www.kentool.com/demos/serpent.html
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:59 AM   #16
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

i have used eyther, propane, and acyteylene when necessary to get a tire to seat on the rim. i wouldn't recommend it to someone who hasn't done it though.

i think buening actually got a grasp of the original posters question, it seems the tire would seal to the rim but the bead would not fully seat. my experience with mower tires is the beads get very dirty. i wire brush the rim and lubricate it and have had not problems seating tires.


rig the tire problem on the truck you saw on tv was because the owner of the truck was too cheap to buy beadlock wheels. they bolt together to keep the bead seated on low pressure applications like rock crawling.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:48 AM   #17
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M0GNLvPmAg&NR=1

Here is the video these guys got the tire to bead. For people who don't know what is being discussed be very careful. If you try this at home too little is better than too much.
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Ah, if he meant it couldn't go completely, not much more you can do than clean the rim, and lube it. Putting the tire somewhere warm may help a little bit. When I put the 10 plys on my garden tractor, they didn't seat until almost 60 psi
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:46 PM   #19
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

I think the OP is getting at the fact that his tires are not fully seating, not that he can't get the beads to seal on the rim, as is the case with tall floppy side walls on SUV tires. What you use to lubricate the rim can have an impact on the seating. While windex and soapy water will work, actual bead grease usually works the best for me. Also, for really low profiles on wide rims, they can be a bitch to seat. It helps if the tires are warm (sitting in the sun for a while) to get the rubber more flexible.

On tires that are a bitch, I usually let them sit on the machine for a little while to see if the pressure itself will seat them. Usually 50/50. Other times, I let the air out and just force down the side that didn't seat, relube it and try it again. Usually after 2 tries, they will seat, without exceeding the max bead seating pressure warnings on the tires.
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

We had a service tech in the hospital for a day, he came very close to losing an eye using starting fluid to seat a forklift tire. We have all done it at one time or another. Mostly good results, a few unexpected fires and finally a severe eye injury. Sometimes things should not be done.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Thanks guys for all the feedback.I'd heard about the ether-lighting method before,but never saw it done until seeing the videos that were posted.Looks pretty dangerous.The air cannon tool sounds like it would be a great thing to have,but the cost,vs.how many times it would be needed makes it too much.I think I'll check out the bead grease,and the other tips meantoned.
I've only got about 14 minutes to get it done to make the flatrate,that's why it's so frustrating if it takes more than one try,to get the bead to pop up on the rim.I had a co-worker put like a 100 psi in the same size of tire on a big commercial rider,in order to get more ground clearance to unload it. He forgot about it,and it sat in the sun for about an hour,then exploded.It sounded like a bomb blew up,a lot of the neighbors ran outside to see what blew up! Luckily,nobody was around it.That"s why I get so concerned as I'm overfilling the tire,and the warning label on the sidewall is staring up at me.....Thanks again.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Ratchet strap works for me every time.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:38 PM   #23
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Dont riding mowers usually have tubes ? What kinda soap are you using ? I use straight up liquid laundry soap
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:10 PM   #24
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

No,they are most always tubeless,and when they get a puncture,we put a tube in it then.I was using dishwashing soap mixed with water,and then I tried it straight from the bottle after about the 4th try.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

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Dont riding mowers usually have tubes ? What kinda soap are you using ? I use straight up liquid laundry soap
they are tubeless.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

I think they should outlaw tubeless tires on, lawnmowers, go karts wheelbarrows etc. They are a major pain.
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Old 01-12-2009, 04:56 PM   #27
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

I work at a dealer and just today we had a heck of a time mounting a nwe 18 goodyear tire, we even tried the ole ether trick, to no avail. We have thought about a cheetah bead seater, but at $300+ its rather expensive for a once in awhile used tool. Does anyone have one, and is it worth its cost in the long run??
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

http://www.alltiresupply.com/p-47-386.html This type is easy to use. They have other ones also.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:27 PM   #29
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

I used to do the old "blow it up" trick when I worked at a truck stop in the late 80's. We had one tech that decided he would wake up one of the truckers that was driving him nuts. He must of put damn near half a can in the tire before he lit it. That truck tire came about five feet off the ground and when it landed the sidewall was blown out.

Yes, he was canned that same day when the boss found out he blew a sidewall on a tire.

One trick that is messy, but works is Murphy soap. It can be packed around the bead and cleaned off once the bead come up.
http://www.alltiresupply.com/p-MU-2096.html
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:06 AM   #30
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

"no rim rust" is the best stuff there is...........used it for over 30 years and never a problem with it.............works excellent on aluminum rims in preventing bead leaks and beads up tires nicely.............
http://www.freylube.com/
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:34 AM   #31
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Default Re: Seeking tire bead seating tips/tools

Quote:
Originally Posted by chammyman View Post
I have yet to see anyone injure themselves with the starting fluid and the lighter method. Its easy and effective. I used to do it daily to mount tyres for not only cars but commercials as well.
I saw someone lose their beard, eyebrows, eyelashes, and some head hair using that method.

A rope and a stick to wind it up with works well. Release the stick when the beads seat. The inflation pressure can actually snap the rope. A quick release is why I do not recommend a ratchet strap.

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