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Old 12-29-2008, 09:24 PM   #1
beartoothweb
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Default 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

I'm building a 40x30 shop (thanks to all for feedback, this is the size I've decided on.)

My lift needs 12' ceilings, but at that size, 12' walls will look gargantuan, even on my 5 acres. I don't want the shop to look bigger than the house.

I can put the lift pretty much whereever I need to, and I'm considering 2 options, scissor trusses, or a raised ceiling (coffer). The 2nd option is quite an increase.

Can someone tell me if the scissors will work for me? I'm doing a 4/12 roof, 10' sidewalls. Or, so should I explore other options? I also thought about just doing a post and beam, and running the posts close to the lift posts so I don't lose floor space.

You can see the designs in the attachment. I added a 3rd garage door on the side which will allow easy access to the lift (mounted in center of trusses) and utilization for additional parking if needed.

Thanks!
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File Type: jpg front_grey_white.jpg (48.2 KB, 217 views)
File Type: jpg 40x30_no_vehicles.jpg (69.2 KB, 296 views)
File Type: jpg 40x30_side.jpg (42.1 KB, 164 views)

Last edited by beartoothweb; 12-29-2008 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:08 PM   #2
tfi racing
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

I had the same concern with my garage,that the 12'monster walls would be overwhelming,I only have a half acre.Now that it is up,it really doesn't look out of place at all,it does help that I have a two storey house though.The scissor trusses would only add about a foot or so of ceiling height with a 4/12 pitch,not sure if that would be worthwhile. I recommend just going ahead with the twelve foot walls,that extra 2400 cubic feet is cheap space compared to adding more square footage.Some creative landscaping and wall treatments should minimize the visual impact of the building.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:00 AM   #3
JohnK007
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Generally speaking the inside span of a scissor truss is one-half the exterior span. So, if your roof is 4/12 the inside chord will be 2/12. With a 30 foot depth the inside rise will be approximately 2" X 15' or 30" for total ceiling height of 12.5' at the center of your garage. If you put your lift's posts in the center of the span then yes, you could install your lift with 10' walls, but not as you have it sketched. You should put the lift in one of the two facing bays. If you keep that side overhead door, I'd put the lift in the left bay to keep the right side clear of the posts. You will also have to carefully watch the total height of the lift with a vehicle on it.

Interestingly, the total exterior height of your structure with 10' walls and 4/12 span will be about 15 feet overall (4" X 15' = 60" + 10'). If you increase your wall height to 12 feet, your overall height only increases to 17 feet. I'd be inclined to go the extra two feet.

Nice looking garage design by the way!

Caveat emptor: I'm not a professional builder so if I missed something, somebody pipe in.

Last edited by JohnK007; 12-30-2008 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

What I see wrong is the side garage door rails may interfere with something on the lift. Most likely you would need a roll up door on the side.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

All said and done, the extra 2' might not be that bad. Before, I didn't have the little "porch" in my design, so the 40' wall just looked huge.

What I did here is simply leave that porch connector at the 10' height, and raise the roof to 12'. The main reason I was looking at the 3rd door was to accomodate the lift at the scissor truss height, so I just eliminated it completely.

I added a bit of signage over the main doors to also break up that space, which all seemed to work.

The area to the left of the doors (with the man door) will actually be a work space and parking area (dedicated to my forthcoming '65 Cobra FFR), so the intention is to use the left big door for entry (pull in, back up into that bay). That car, once done will be a summer-only car, so it'll sit for a majority of the year, hence not needing that 3rd door.

Eliminating the 3rd door and scissor trusses will probably save me $1500 (that'll pay for the gas pump ).

What do you guys think now?
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File Type: jpg 40x30_no_vehicles_12foot.jpg (16.7 KB, 174 views)
File Type: jpg front_grey_white_12foot.jpg (26.6 KB, 165 views)

Last edited by beartoothweb; 12-30-2008 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:09 AM   #6
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

I like it! As a matter of fact I like the separate porch roof better than the original sketch. You did an excellent job masking the height increase. Now let's get building!
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:35 AM   #7
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Instead of the 4-1/2 roof, go with something higher....I did a 12/12 & have a whole upstairs with dormers...it'll mask the high walls - especially if you put a small 'porch' roof overhang across the entire front at a slightly different pitch from the main roof.

Here's mine with 12' walls:

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Old 12-30-2008, 10:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnK007 View Post
I like it! As a matter of fact I like the separate porch roof better than the original sketch. You did an excellent job masking the height increase. Now let's get building!
Thanks. I like it better too, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the extra height, especially for storage, etc.

auto: I do like your design, but the higher roof in my case would make it more obvious. The building will be 100' from the main house in an open area, and I want to keep it as low profile as possible. I don't want to over shadow the house, which is pretty big, but I want the shop to be secondary and kind of "blend in" from a presence standpoint (granted, once I make it look like a gas station, that might not happen). But, the muted gray siding is intentional to keep it less "HEY LOOK AT THAT SHOP!" ;->
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Yep, my garage is about 4,000sf, both floors, & is attached to the house so that it looks like a part of the house (which is also about that size)....somebody once asked my wife why somebody built another house so close to ours.

Rear of garage & house with breezeway that connects them (tin roof is over wife's outdoor kitchen):



Front of house & garage:


Sorry about the wide photos but its the only way to show the entire thing so you can get an idea of what I was attempting to do. Part of the 2nd floor of the garage is a studio apartment.
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Last edited by autoist; 12-30-2008 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

autoist has the right idea...the steeper pitch will give you more height inside, and if you continue the porch roof across it will bring the height of the garage down a bit, what does the house looke like?
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:44 AM   #11
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkhonda1991 View Post
autoist has the right idea...the steeper pitch will give you more height inside, and if you continue the porch roof across it will bring the height of the garage down a bit, what does the house looke like?
The house has an old farm house look to it, and I think my upper roof is actually 12:12.

The reason I'm concerned with pitch is just overall height. The shop will sit up hill from the house, so it'll already be 5-6' taller that way. The house is long, tall, and slender. I don't want the shop to look like I built my mother in law a house next door.

This is a very old picture, right after we finished the house before landscaping.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

I don't think it is the steeper pich that hides the height of the wall so much as the fact that he has continued the slope out past the walls for the pourch roof.
That lowers the eve height, which is the visual line.
Do some playing with your software with an extended porch roof idea.
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Old 12-30-2008, 01:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Mine is a split height 10' celing on the left, 12 foot on the right for a lift down the road. I would consider using a gable on one end like i did. It breaks up the size of the building and gives it some character. It is 30x56 for reference. The right bay is 20x30.

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Old 12-30-2008, 02:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

I like that split height look, it does look pretty nice. I'm not too keen on the additional materials and labor, however to accomplish it. There's a finite amount of "fun funds" for 2009 here, so I'm trying to get the shop in place as cheaply as possible so I can order my FFR kit.

I did run the 12:12 and 10:12 pitch through my software, and it looks a little like I put a top hat on a basketball player. Granted, no dormers, which would tone it down a bit, but I wouldn't spend the money on them anyway.

Just for reference since it was suggested. Seems too tall to me.
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File Type: jpg 12_12.jpg (23.5 KB, 55 views)
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Hey, to each his own....you might want to try a small 4' porch overhang all along the front - pitch it a little less than the roff itself to make a break in the roof.

& you could still do your larger porch area at the door.
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Take your first design and turn the trusses 90* over one bay. Run a steeper pitch 6 or so. Purdue's design but flipped. It will match the house better as well
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

I would put the lift in the center bay. By the time you get the posts up you loose alot of room to the wall. you may also consider angling the lift or moving the door a little further away from the other door to make sure it is easy to get in and out of the vehicle. And of course you could go an entirely different route and go with an in-ground lift.
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

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I would put the lift in the center bay. By the time you get the posts up you loose alot of room to the wall. you may also consider angling the lift or moving the door a little further away from the other door to make sure it is easy to get in and out of the vehicle. And of course you could go an entirely different route and go with an in-ground lift.
I already have the lift. It's an overhead hobbyist model by Benco equipment. The good news is I got a really good deal on it about 3 months ago. The bad news is, I bought it 3 months ago. ;-> Now they have some other options out there like the removable lift, etc.

I'm working on another design like the ones suggested with a split bay.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

Purdue...have to apologize to you. I've been looking more at what you did, and I really like it. I'm still not sold on the higher pitch and the storage room (not sure I need it), but I definitely like the 10' to 12' idea...working on that now in my design.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: 12' Ceiling Height with 10' Walls? Truss Vs. Beam

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Purdue...have to apologize to you. I've been looking more at what you did, and I really like it. I'm still not sold on the higher pitch and the storage room (not sure I need it), but I definitely like the 10' to 12' idea...working on that now in my design.
Hey no sweat man, just throwing an option out for you to think about. My roof pitch on the left side (10ft height) is 6.5/12. This gave me a 36'x12' loft with 6.5' of headroom down the middle 3'. The right side ended up somewhere around 7.5 or 8/12. It is build with traditional rafters, ceiling joists, collar ties and a hogs trough.
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