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Old 01-18-2009, 06:36 PM   #1
RichardNorman
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Default Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

I'm sectioning off a small area in my garage and I'm having trouble with the base plates.

I've tried the Remington but it just blows out the concrete. In cases where it doesn't blow out, the nail doesn't hold well.

Today I tried tapcons screws and that didn't go well either. I'm using a hammer drill and the bits that tapcon specs. It drills just fine for the first half inch of so and then the dust turns from almost white to very dark gray and the progress stops. If I continue to drill it just seems to eat up the tip of the bit.


The slab is about 15 years old BTW.

What other options to I have at this point? Adhesive?
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

drill a larger hole and use redhead trubolts, or if you need a smaller stud you could epoxy one into the larger hole. Use water when you're drilling. I think the extra hard concrete is creating too much heat for the small drill bit to dissapate. (you arent hitting steel or a postension cable are you?)
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

Get or borrow a SDS base hammerdrill and get the appropriate sized drop in or sleave anchors for your plates. I have a Bosch bulldog I got at menards but home depot or lowes for the same price of 200 or so.
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

Just stick them down with a good construction adhesive.They won't go anywhere without destroying the baseplate if you get a good bond.
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

Richard, on the holes where the nail does not hold well, drive two nails in at the same time. Use stout nails, and they will be there permanently. Granted it is a little tough to get both to go in straight, but you can do it.

Bob
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

The dark gray dust is more than likely rebar. Maybe move an inch one way or another for starters?
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Old 01-18-2009, 09:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

I ram into the same problem drilling into an older slab in my basement. I was using Tapcons also. I stepped up to the larger size with a hex head. No problem, everything worked well.
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:04 AM   #8
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkythings.com View Post
I ram into the same problem drilling into an older slab in my basement. I was using Tapcons also. I stepped up to the larger size with a hex head. No problem, everything worked well.
I am already using the 1/4 inch screws with the hex head on them. I learned a while back the phillips head ones were a pain.

Thanks for looking out for me!
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:05 AM   #9
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

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Originally Posted by dwilliams35 View Post
The dark gray dust is more than likely rebar. Maybe move an inch one way or another for starters?
That would make sense of course.

I will try moving over an inch or so.
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:57 AM   #10
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

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Originally Posted by tfi racing View Post
Just stick them down with a good construction adhesive.They won't go anywhere without destroying the baseplate if you get a good bond.

X2

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Old 01-19-2009, 10:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

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Originally Posted by tfi racing View Post
Just stick them down with a good construction adhesive.They won't go anywhere without destroying the baseplate if you get a good bond.

This is what I did and the walls I put up are solid. I agree that the base plate would be destroyed before it would move.
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

Maybe I will give the adhesive a shot....it certainly sounds appealing compared to drilling all those damn holes...
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

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Maybe I will give the adhesive a shot....it certainly sounds appealing compared to drilling all those damn holes...
That's why I chose it. I went through three bits in ten holes and I had quite a few to go and it just wasn't worth the hassle.
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

One advantage of using anchor bolts over construction adhesive is TIME -- to pull the wall straight, adjust it etc. Of course one of the advantages of construction adhesive is also time -- saved drilling etc.

This is a bigger deal on bigger walls. Today we framed and put up the 25' long internal rake wall in my 3 bay garage. It is 13' high at the high end and 11' at the low end. It has a 12' high beam pocket about midway. Setting this wall with two people on slippery construction adhesive would have been nearly impossible. OTOH I drilled and set 8 1/2x5-1/2" Red Heads in 4,000 PSI concrete with my 18v Makita LiIon hammer drill and two Bosche bits on one battery charge. I used the second longer bit to deepen the holes. With anchor bolts, I can wait till tomorrow to block the wall and tweak the base plate to get it right where I want it.

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Old 01-20-2009, 01:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

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Originally Posted by FunfDreisig View Post
One advantage of using anchor bolts over construction adhesive is TIME -- to pull the wall straight, adjust it etc. Of course one of the advantages of construction adhesive is also time -- saved drilling etc.

This is a bigger deal on bigger walls. Today we framed and put up the 25' long internal rake wall in my 3 bay garage. It is 13' high at the high end and 11' at the low end. It has a 12' high beam pocket about midway. Setting this wall with two people on slippery construction adhesive would have been nearly impossible. OTOH I drilled and set 8 1/2x5-1/2" Red Heads in 4,000 PSI concrete with my 18v Makita LiIon hammer drill and two Bosche bits on one battery charge. I used the second longer bit to deepen the holes. With anchor bolts, I can wait till tomorrow to block the wall and tweak the base plate to get it right where I want it.

Funf Dreisig
My would be pretty insignificant size wise but I still understand what you're saying. I would absolutely prefer to use fasteners of some type.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

Any idea how thick the slab is? If this is a standard slab, it's rare (at least in my area) that actual rebar is used for a garage slab. Welded Wire Fabric is typically used and is relatively thin. If you feel like you have hit metal, get out a non-concrete drill bit and try to drill through the rebar. Then go back to your concrete bit.

You can go with adhesive, but 1/2" depth isn't a whole lot of surface area for the adhesive to develop it's strength.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

I've never had any luck with tapcon's except in green concrete..... Always went with the red head style anchors. Rent a good hammer drill (more like a small jack hammer) and use like a 1/2" redhead anchor. I've drilled thru 12" of concrete at an old grain elevator, those big industrial drills eat thru it like butter.
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Hard hard concrete. How to attach base plate?

First step is to get a bigger hammer drill. Second after you blow the dust out of the hole PL400 the bottom of the plate. The phillips tapcons work fine, mine take a number 3 phillips bit. An impact driver is key to running the tapcons in.
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