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Old 05-06-2013, 08:20 AM   #881
customh
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Perhaps I shouldn't thread jack but I'm curious what the use of those service wrenches are. Never thought I needed them.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:42 PM   #882
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Default Re: My Harbor Freight Investment

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Originally Posted by customh View Post
Perhaps I shouldn't thread jack but I'm curious what the use of those service wrenches are. Never thought I needed them.
I like them because the cover a wide range of the larger size wrenches at a price I can live with. The finish on them isn't fancy but it holds up well and hitting them with a hammer didn't even leave a mark on them. I'm really impressed with the quality for $2 a piece.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:47 PM   #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicNamedJohn View Post
$1000 no tools, paid around $800 "20% and 25% off coupons"

Ordered a Macsimizer, should be here in 2 weeks, I put an ad on Craigslist thinking I could make a deal in 2 weeks. A guy gave me asking price in 24 hours.
Pics of the Macsimizer are a must when it comes in

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Old 05-07-2013, 06:47 AM   #884
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John, are you selling the HF tools as well?

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Old 05-07-2013, 06:58 AM   #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmall400 View Post
Harbor freight tool boxes hold their value better than a snap on box? lol.
Yes. Sold a used 44" for $260. New they can be had for $360. So I sold it for 72% of new price.
Much better than snap on.
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:01 AM   #886
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Originally Posted by Skin View Post
Has to do with street value and what someone feels they're getting for their money. Truck brand boxes are worth about 1/3 to 1/4 their MSRP on the open market so that right there is a huge blow.
Something is only worth what someone will pay for it. The HF is a much better deal and hold their value much better.
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:25 AM   #887
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The thing that makes me grouchy is when people go into debt buying tools. If you go into debt for tools, you are doing something wrong. The whole point of working is to make a profit, and if you go into debt to buy tools to complete a job, you make less money from said job having to pay for the tools. I'm not saying that expensive tools are bad (because we all know they are the best). Another thing I hate is when someone buys a big name tool just for the brand instead of buying that tool from a company that specializes in said tool.
What gets me is the rational people can come with,,,,,, about how all this saves them time, makes them a golden arm. The convenirnce argument can only br upped by the resale and there is the quality that makes it 10x.

I was hoping to see how this played out long term from John but I learn also,,, hard to beat the logic of buying a bunch of cheap tools and selling them for more used,,,,, I think its ,,, well,,, why change???

But in due credit on that front at least John is objective and is buying cause he wants it, I dont see him coming up with some logic as to how the new box will perform miracles.

I am so with the simple well done statement above that it is worthy or quote,,,,,,,, should be a sticky for anyone asking about 90% of the questions here.
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:40 AM   #888
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I think Johns idea was cant miss. It was cheap fast convenient and as it looks profitable. I had ran the what iffs and still can. In Johns case even if he bought a few things he used minimally no great loss in the short term and also dont have money tied up long,, its a win.

In my version I might see how little I could do it with. In a certain environment the HF could add fluff, interior design cost more and you got to have some furnishing. Sometimes its hard to charge for nothing.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:31 AM   #889
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Default Re: My Harbor Freight Investment

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Originally Posted by ConnerSmith View Post
The thing that makes me grouchy is when people go into debt buying tools. If you go into debt for tools, you are doing something wrong. The whole point of working is to make a profit, and if you go into debt to buy tools to complete a job, you make less money from said job having to pay for the tools. I'm not saying that expensive tools are bad (because we all know they are the best). Another thing I hate is when someone buys a big name tool just for the brand instead of buying that tool from a company that specializes in said tool.
I hate when I do that unknowingly. I have a Matco serpentine belt tool set, and I only found out a year later that Gearwrench makes it for Matco at half the price!

I prefer to buy from the OEM for specialty tools whenever possible. Why pay extra for a name?


The OP went hog wild with HF stuff, damn!!!! That stuff is easily $30-40K to replicate in Snap-On tools.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:26 AM   #890
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I hate when I do that unknowingly. I have a Matco serpentine belt tool set, and I only found out a year later that Gearwrench makes it for Matco at half the price!

I prefer to buy from the OEM for specialty tools whenever possible. Why pay extra for a name?


The OP went hog wild with HF stuff, damn!!!! That stuff is easily $30-40K to replicate in Snap-On tools.
This is exactly why I dont see the point in buying anything from Matco. I have said it before and Ill say it again. They dont actually make any tools, they just throw there name on them. I understand every company does this to an extent, but matco goes the distance and from what I see matco tools dont exist, its K-D, armstrong and OTC rebrands etc. And more expensive than snap on to boot.
Quote:
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What gets me is the rational people can come with,,,,,, about how all this saves them time, makes them a golden arm. The convenirnce argument can only br upped by the resale and there is the quality that makes it 10x.

I was hoping to see how this played out long term from John but I learn also,,, hard to beat the logic of buying a bunch of cheap tools and selling them for more used,,,,, I think its ,,, well,,, why change???

But in due credit on that front at least John is objective and is buying cause he wants it, I dont see him coming up with some logic as to how the new box will perform miracles.

I am so with the simple well done statement above that it is worthy or quote,,,,,,,, should be a sticky for anyone asking about 90% of the questions here.
I agree, I used to play that game with myself, justifying what I was doing as far as tool purchases to myself and others. I came to a similar realization to what youve laid out here. If you wanna buy HF tools then do it. I take pride in what I do and I was always taught it should show in the toolset you keep. So I have mostly invested in pretty high end stuff. Not to say this is true but this is how I looked at it since I was very young. What Im saying is fuck em, its your money, do what you want. Its all in how YOU look at it.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:59 PM   #891
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Default Re: My Harbor Freight Investment

I find it kind of funny that I own 95% American made tools and if I buy anything form HF I'm one of those guys.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:41 PM   #892
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What gets me is the rational people can come with,,,,,, about how all this saves them time, makes them a golden arm. The convenirnce argument can only br upped by the resale and there is the quality that makes it 10x.

I was hoping to see how this played out long term from John but I learn also,,, hard to beat the logic of buying a bunch of cheap tools and selling them for more used,,,,, I think its ,,, well,,, why change???

But in due credit on that front at least John is objective and is buying cause he wants it, I dont see him coming up with some logic as to how the new box will perform miracles.

I am so with the simple well done statement above that it is worthy or quote,,,,,,,, should be a sticky for anyone asking about 90% of the questions here.
Please read through this entire post before responding.

Many of those convenience arguments weren't presented very well. Snap-On flank drive makes rounding off fasteners much less likely (yes, I know, how often does one round off a fastener anyways, I'll address that later), and ratchets with very little internal friction (like the Dual 80's) make working on low torque fasteners (or ones that have been loosened a lot and you can't get your hand on it) much easier. When working on stubborn bolts things like flank drive technology works to your advantage. Higher end sockets tend also tend to fit fasteners tighter (making them less likely to round off).

Now does that mean that every bolt you use a HF socket on is going to round? Nope. I survived using a Home Depot cheapy Husky ratchet and socket set for a few years and the several bolts I rounded were my fault (not getting the socket/wrench on square).

Are snap-on tools better? Definitely!

Are they worth the increase in price? Depends on who you are. Obviously for you they aren't. If you read my little post on the last page you would know that I hardly own any Snap-on tools myself (Have a few that are the brand that supplies snap-on, but mostly much cheaper things). Snap-On isn't worth it for me, and I have no interest in expanding to Snap-on Tools when the extra performance they offer is not what I need.

Snap-on, Matco, MAC, etc are a 10% increase in performance for a 100% increase in price. For the majority of us, that 10% we will never use. For those who venture into that 10% and need the increase of performance, they get to pay the exorbitant prices for it. Trying to say HF is just as good as Snap-On is ridiculous (seen that on too many HF reviews "this product is better than Snap-On!"). Do any of those tool truck brands make everything the best? Nope, sometimes specific brands for specific jobs are what is needed.

The same arguments can be made for many cars (let's just talk with all cars being kept stock). When a $30,000 Subaru goes 0-60 in 4.5 Seconds, and an $60,000 BMW goes 0-60 in 4.2, was the 30 Grand increase in price worth it for the slight increase in acceleration? Depends on the person. You can also argue that the BMW will be way more luxurious and more comfortable than the Subaru (easier to drive on a daily basis) and more refined.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:53 PM   #893
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Originally Posted by Loscaldazar View Post
Please read through this entire post before responding.

Many of those convenience arguments weren't presented very well. Snap-On flank drive makes rounding off fasteners much less likely (yes, I know, how often does one round off a fastener anyways, I'll address that later), and ratchets with very little internal friction (like the Dual 80's) make working on low torque fasteners (or ones that have been loosened a lot and you can't get your hand on it) much easier. When working on stubborn bolts things like flank drive technology works to your advantage. Higher end sockets tend also tend to fit fasteners tighter (making them less likely to round off).

Now does that mean that every bolt you use a HF socket on is going to round? Nope. I survived using a Home Depot cheapy Husky ratchet and socket set for a few years and the several bolts I rounded were my fault (not getting the socket/wrench on square).

Are snap-on tools better? Definitely!

Are they worth the increase in price? Depends on who you are. Obviously for you they aren't. If you read my little post on the last page you would know that I hardly own any Snap-on tools myself (Have a few that are the brand that supplies snap-on, but mostly much cheaper things). Snap-On isn't worth it for me, and I have no interest in expanding to Snap-on Tools when the extra performance they offer is not what I need.

Snap-on, Matco, MAC, etc are a 10% increase in performance for a 100% increase in price. For the majority of us, that 10% we will never use. For those who venture into that 10% and need the increase of performance, they get to pay the exorbitant prices for it. Trying to say HF is just as good as Snap-On is ridiculous (seen that on too many HF reviews "this product is better than Snap-On!"). Do any of those tool truck brands make everything the best? Nope, sometimes specific brands for specific jobs are what is needed.

The same arguments can be made for many cars (let's just talk with all cars being kept stock). When a $30,000 Subaru goes 0-60 in 4.5 Seconds, and an $60,000 BMW goes 0-60 in 4.2, was the 30 Grand increase in price worth it for the slight increase in acceleration? Depends on the person. You can also argue that the BMW will be way more luxurious and more comfortable than the Subaru (easier to drive on a daily basis) and more refined.
Spot On Sir...
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:55 PM   #894
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I just used the Harbor Freight Multi-tool I bought about a month ago. It actually worked very well on its first usage. If it keeps performing like it did on the long term I will be pleased. This tool is frequently as cheap as $15 so you can't really beat that. Here's to hoping it holds up to moderate usage over time...
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:43 PM   #895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loscaldazar View Post
Please read through this entire post before responding.

Many of those convenience arguments weren't presented very well. Snap-On flank drive makes rounding off fasteners much less likely (yes, I know, how often does one round off a fastener anyways, I'll address that later), and ratchets with very little internal friction (like the Dual 80's) make working on low torque fasteners (or ones that have been loosened a lot and you can't get your hand on it) much easier. When working on stubborn bolts things like flank drive technology works to your advantage. Higher end sockets tend also tend to fit fasteners tighter (making them less likely to round off).

Now does that mean that every bolt you use a HF socket on is going to round? Nope. I survived using a Home Depot cheapy Husky ratchet and socket set for a few years and the several bolts I rounded were my fault (not getting the socket/wrench on square).

Are snap-on tools better? Definitely!

Are they worth the increase in price? Depends on who you are. Obviously for you they aren't. If you read my little post on the last page you would know that I hardly own any Snap-on tools myself (Have a few that are the brand that supplies snap-on, but mostly much cheaper things). Snap-On isn't worth it for me, and I have no interest in expanding to Snap-on Tools when the extra performance they offer is not what I need.

Snap-on, Matco, MAC, etc are a 10% increase in performance for a 100% increase in price. For the majority of us, that 10% we will never use. For those who venture into that 10% and need the increase of performance, they get to pay the exorbitant prices for it. Trying to say HF is just as good as Snap-On is ridiculous (seen that on too many HF reviews "this product is better than Snap-On!"). Do any of those tool truck brands make everything the best? Nope, sometimes specific brands for specific jobs are what is needed.

The same arguments can be made for many cars (let's just talk with all cars being kept stock). When a $30,000 Subaru goes 0-60 in 4.5 Seconds, and an $60,000 BMW goes 0-60 in 4.2, was the 30 Grand increase in price worth it for the slight increase in acceleration? Depends on the person. You can also argue that the BMW will be way more luxurious and more comfortable than the Subaru (easier to drive on a daily basis) and more refined.
^^---umm, what he said ---^^
I own some of HF tools, I dont make my life with a wrench so I cant justify snapon, have had crasftsman and HF and some in between, the only reason I get HF is they are good enough to do what I need to do, and when people come over and they disappear I'm not having a ragefest over it.

I have a metal chop saw from HF thats 7 years old, cut a ton of stuff with it and it was worth every penny, is it dead nuts accurate, no, but its 1000x better than a sawzall or a grinder as far as time & effort and outcome.

also have a HF drill press thats 5 years old, it has run out, but its for drilling holes not milling, and it makes a hole where you want if you center punch it, best $40 I ever spent, I think about gettings a bigger stand up, but hell i dont need it till this one dies so I wait.

I bought a hobart welder, worth every penny, I dont like alot of HF electronics, but a 2.99-5.99 multimeter is worth its weight in gold as a loaner, because we all know that guy who put the leads in wrong or set the dial wrong etc...add voltage and and it stopped working, or it either never came home or came back busted/wet/trashed.

the moving dollies they sell are cheaper on sale than the casters on the shelf if they meet your load requirements...

do I love HF, no, but considering you can't buy nice stuff anywhere, and affordable "non pro" brand stuff at other stores looks about the same with different paint and stickers and comes from the same country, and often has the same complaints for 2x the price... if your not able to go top shelf, you might as well be able to get 4 of them instead of 2 from lowes.
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:56 PM   #896
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I have to say, "to each his own". I have a mix of tools from the trucks, craftsman, an occasional Ampro (Advance Auto Parts) socket, some vintage and antique tools that I like the look or feel of. You have ample storage space. I'm amazed at technicians who brag about their $12,000 tool boxes. A tool box never fixed a damn thing. If you can do your job efficiently with the tools you have, then you have the right tools. Hats off to ya.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:30 PM   #897
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This type of thing int a personal attack, dont take it like that. My only point as was yours is wheredo numbers come out. I bet John cant make a nickle extra buying a new box, it will only depreciate. His skill level and 5 minutes of patience every day are huge multiples and variable.

I say that given that he has to pay for the tool with the same amount of work his bottom line sags vs improves with new tools, he cant make big enough increases in productivity with a few improved hand tools or a new box to make it worth it in a business sense.

If guy says he wants a new set of snappy wrenches then,,, he wants them, ok,,, good argument but if he says he just cant do it with a Pittsburg and he will be a blaze once he starts payments on a set of truck wrenches, have extra 20's in his pocket before long because he upgrades afew sockets that until now seemed to work I would have to be suspcious.

Asf or a better ratchet making a guy a super wrench,, if we are talking about thisbeing the tool in your hand for 7 1/2 hrs a day, ha, it rides in a box, I just got no delusion I got such a golden arm that a 200$ ratchet is going to help me much at the end of he day.

Bought 3 sockets yesterday, replacements, lost maybe, maybe they show up yet but USA I think, 2 at Lowes and one Menards but 15$ for all three take a bunch of the gut wrenching desciion out of it, right down to the point that I aint doing without, be a real deal if it was 100$.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:59 PM   #898
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Yes. Sold a used 44" for $260. New they can be had for $360. So I sold it for 72% of new price.
Much better than snap on.
No disrespect intended, but IME as someone whose been flipping tools from both sides of the ocean for years, I completely disagree. Your opinion is looking at the short term bc frankly, HF buyers buy for the short term. SnapOn buyers tend to buy for the long term.

With SO, new prices go up quite a bit every single year, so yes, you might lose a big chunk of money selling a "used" box or tool sold in the first decade or two, but over the years similar boxes/tools have gone up quite a bit in price, so depending on the box, age, and condition theres a good chance the SO owner will break even or make money on his tools, even after using them for decades to make more money. With HF OTOH, assuming anybody keeps those tools for decades, there wont be the romance/nostalgia/following/whatever that makes people buy SO. The most extreme example of this Ive seen is my father's collection of NOS SO. Quite a few of the still brandy NIB "spares" that he bought in the late 50s-80s have been sold the past few years on ebay for more than their new 2013 SO equivalent, or stated another way, he MULTIPLIED his money since the "vintage" ones cost many fewer dollars way back when.

Something else to consider is the residual value of used tools. The "names" will only ever go so low. HF OTOH has no bottom end. A SO box someone paid $500 for used might only sell at a bad auction for $200, but there is ALWAYS someone willing to pay about that for SO boxes. A HF box someone paid $500 for OTOH can and will go <$100 bc there isnt always someone willing to lug home "another cheap box"....its just the mentality people have, theres always a fan of one around but not the other. Ive bought several of those 44" and the bigger 56" rollers for relatives for <$50. This year I will go to "only" ~50 auctions. One of my personal favorite flips are small benchtop woodwacking power tools (not a woodwacker, but every yuppie seems to love woodwacking, have at least a small space, and has enough $$$). I can buy dam near anything that HF sells in this category for <$10 (bought this one for $2 a few weeks ago, resold for $25 after 3 weeks of waiting http://www.harborfreight.com/10-13-a...saw-68827.html). Chinese Cman or Delta OTOH I couldnt touch for <$25 on a good day. If someone buys a good used "name" brand, they have a pretty good chance of getting back most all of it one day.

For the record, I hardly buy any new tools anymore and also prefer the other vintage USA brands to SO any day for my own use.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:36 AM   #899
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Quote:
Your opinion is looking at the short term bc frankly, HF buyers buy for the short term. SnapOn buyers tend to buy for the long term.
I think the opposite sometimes, the hi priced buyer wants shiny new now and the HF guy may think both short and long, the long being that he has some money for a longtime vs the payment. Some of the short can be good , John sold box for more than he paid, not all short thinking is bad. The argumet is apples to oranges,,, it would be a fair fight if the HF cost the same but it doesnt, its near disposable, could buy most of it new every year and come out the same.

I know you are engineer but feel free to enlighten me with the math about resale of a tool box, its initial cost was about the same as the sales tax on the hi one, if each one depreciated 50% whats the cost over 10 years and how much we lose over resale.

I had a salesman try to seel me a tractor with that logic,,, it has beter resale. I said, pick up your calculator again and explai this. I spend 10K more today so I can get 5 more back 10 years from now.

In total dollars it has more value but you paid 10X for it to start with. These tools are not investments, they are liabilities.

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Old 05-08-2013, 08:12 AM   #900
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I think the opposite sometimes, the hi priced buyer wants shiny new now and the HF guy may think both short and long, the long being that he has some money for a longtime vs the payment. Some of the short can be good , John sold box for more than he paid, not all short thinking is bad. The argumet is apples to oranges,,, it would be a fair fight if the HF cost the same but it doesnt, its near disposable, could buy most of it new every year and come out the same.

I know you are engineer but feel free to enlighten me with the math about resale of a tool box, its initial cost was about the same as the sales tax on the hi one, if each one depreciated 50% whats the cost over 10 years and how much we lose over resale.

I had a salesman try to seel me a tractor with that logic,,, it has beter resale. I said, pick up your calculator again and explai this. I spend 10K more today so I can get 5 more back 10 years from now.

In total dollars it has more value but you paid 10X for it to start with. These tools are not investments, they are liabilities.
Sberry are you really under the Impression that "All" Products are Created Equal? Did you ever stop to think that maybe there was a Reason that Tractor carried a higher Resale outside of the Initial Cost factor? (Past only, Nobody knows what the Future resale will bring, Not you nor the Salesman) Whether you want to admit it or not, For a Mechanic.. Tools are a Investment, Regardless of Brand.. You may not like the Color or Flavor.. But there still Investments as long as he Earning money with them. Id be willing to bet there are Tons of Mechanics who have made a good living, with there Tools and when you spread the Initial cost out over a 40+ year Career your Numbers dont do so good.. . Nobody is gonna Argue that Truck tools are a Good Short Term Investment.. John did Great on his Toolbox.. But it wasnt 10 years old either... How many boxes is he gonna need in a 40 year career? I dunno.. And unless you have a crystal ball.. Neither do you. You claim the HF is Disposable, "Buy New Every Year and come out the same" No.. You cant, John spent roughly 4k if i recall.. Ill let you use your special calculator to figure out what 4K x 40 years is.. Now factor in your Time.. and let us know what you come up with. Its Fine that you dont think Truck tools are a good investment, Hell Im with you.. But thats only based off My personal Needs.. Im not the one working flat rate jobs.. If you can fix everything you own with the 15 adjustables on your cart.. Great.. I wish my life was that simple. Give it a Rest... We get it.. We really do...

With all that Said.... Ive been behind John all the time, I think its Great that he has worked hard enough to progress his business to the point where he felt the need to upgrade some items.. Obviously the Path he chose worked or is working.. but that doesnt mean its the Only way, or the best Way.. Just Johns path.. In Reality John's situation was much different than Working as a Tech for a Dealership etc..
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Last edited by Hiball; 05-08-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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