The VISES of Garage Journal

[btrnuthatch]

Eureka, I found it! But after I took out the spindle, a minor adventure ensued. As you know (but I didn't) the spindle has a detent where the set screw seats and the set screw's collar behaved like there is a springy thingy in there. Anyway, it took a bit of "fun" to get it back from whence it came. More reason for me to leave as is. But now I'm curious about getting the whole dynamic out; does it also have a part to keep it from screwing completely out?

Are these questions OK in this thread or should I take it private?

Thanks for the image and pointer.

 

[CRSINMICH]

btrnuthatch: Look at figure 6 in the patent drawing. It has j, j', and I indicated. This is the part you'll need to remove to get the dynamic out, if I'm remembering correctly. On mine it only required removing two 1/4-20 screws. Unfortunately, one of mine was broken off in the hole. Getting the broken screw out was more difficult than usual due to lack of room. I'm including all the written specifications from the patent application. It will tell you what you need to know - if you can decipher legalese.

By the way, check out the witnesses on the bottom of page 2. G.M. Yost (Gilmore Yost) is indeed the founder of Yost vises. The vise business was kind of incestuous back then.

 

[Smitty]

Picked this beauty up yesterday. Long trip but worth it. 7-11-1977

Nice find on the old school C3 and it looks like it’s in great shape. These really had a classic design, it’s a shame they stopped making them.

 

[Outlawmws]

Are these questions OK in this thread or should I take it private?

Perfectly fine right here, We all like to learn about these things and then its searchable (even if you have to do the searching externally, from GJ for some harder things to search for)

 

[pachypod]

I have a question that I have never seen an answer to. Why do some vises have a lead screw that's fully exposed to sawdust, metal bits, and other debris? Is it just a matter of economy, that it's cheaper to build a vise without a covering over the screw?

I think from a design standpoint, open screw designs are actually usually mechanically superior. The trade off is that the screw is open to debris.

Here's my reasoning:
On most open screw designs the screw sits between the slide and the jaws instead of inside the slide like on most closed designs. Every time the jaws close for either design, there is a rotational force in addition to the longitudinal force from tightening the screw. This is because the jaws are always offset from the screw in some way. Having the slide below the screw doesn't change this center of rotation, but it does change the counter force against that rotation that the slide provides, and moves it into a more favorable position by increasing the lever arm. This, I also think, is why most open screw designs don't need a chin on the static body to support the dynamic jaw, whereas most traditional closed designs do need to have one.

So open screw designs aren't superior mechanically just because the screw is uncovered, but because of other design factors that not having to cover the screw allows for.

Just my two cents.

 

[Outlawmws]

Open screw designs existed because they were cheap to make, (leaving the gigantic "RR" open screw vises out of the equation)

They were also the closest to the Blacksmith vise in design, and for light portable use made sense. mostly used for wood by Joe average homeowner "Back in the day". There were not a lot of "hobby" metal workers.... so sawdust isn't going tear up the threads like grinding and welding tend to.

 

[Woods_Wanderer]

If you do include the big steamfitters designs though, using an open screw with a solid bar below it allows the designer to thread the entire static body of the vise instead of having to use a nut vulnerable to breaking or being levered out of position. It also allows for a much larger diameter lead screw as well-the lead screw on a 6" Vanderman looks more like one from an 8" vise.

 

[AreBeeBee]

I'll let others more knowledgable debate the physics of vise design, but this DIYer prefers the shrouded or shielded design precisely because it keeps the oily or greasy screw threads from collecting debris.

 

[Outlawmws]

but this DIYer prefers the shrouded or shielded design precisely because it keeps the oily or greasy screw threads from collecting debris.

 

[TheRealZeus]

Housed, cloaked, shielded, armored. Practicality, and aesthetic.

 

[12vx2]

I think the exposed screw was probably the natural evolution of previous clamps, bench dog type devices. Remember, clamps and the first vises were probably a big improvement over holding work with your feet, as can still be seen in third world countries(they still do amazing work in this manner). The vises were relatively simple and did not use nearly as much iron in their construction. Economy of materials and production operations was a primary industrial concern. They do their job well, maybe not best.
I generally prefer covered screw designs because I believe their designs are durable, heavier duty and jaw alignment is more rigid.
That being said, my favorite versatile and constantly used light duty vises are Versa or Gyro Vises and the Record 2075. I have a couple of each strategically located. They are perfect for most of my purposes.
The best vise for the job is the one you have.

 

[TheRealZeus]

From wonkieedonkiee/UK…

‘The clamping technique was originally developed in the middle ages with the introduction of clamps with threads. In 1750, a breakthrough came with the development of the wooden parallel vice. This was a tool that had sliding jaws which moved horizontally on adjustable slots.’

The test on Paulin Karl Kunze is not until next month, tho… Feel free to continue skylarking, and mind that heat. Hydrate!

 

[Shiftless]

Yes indeed… most of the country is experiencing extreme heat. Sit in the shade if you lack AC and stay hydrated. This works for me.

 

[daddyopoppy]

I found an interesting vice at an estate sale Friday.

 

[AreBeeBee]

I found an interesting vice at an estate sale Friday.

That should clean up nicely. (I always think of these as a kind of early Vise-Grip.)

 

[CRSINMICH]

daddyo: That's a very nice hand vise. It's probably from around the turn of the previous century. Good find.
EDIT: It might be this 1914 Bullock.

 

[Outlawmws]

Not common to see that style of hand vise with an actual handle; that's a cool find!

CRS the Ferule and handle profile look different ,but maybe a style change over the years?

 

[Outlawmws]

Hmmm, I have a jewelers saw with a very similar ferule and handle profile, marked ":Mo-Crafts" and "Germany"

 

[CRSINMICH]

Outlaw and Daddyo: Sharp eyes! There is another slight difference too. The spring mechanism that opens the jaws when the screw is turned is an actual spring in Daddyo's' vise and in the Bullock it's a small piece of steel (spring steel?) between the jaws. At first I thought the handle might be rosewood but it looks more like black lacquer in the photo - like the Bullock. Further research might find a better match but almost certainly it'll be from the same era and it's still a nice find.

 

[RTM]

I have two or three with wooden handles, and don’t think any have had marks found on them. I find those to be more jeweler oriented, vs the handleless are more machine ship oriented.

I would be hesitant to use a handled one against a grinder, but would take a Dremel to it.

 

[daddyopoppy]

I appreciate the responses and thoughts. We’re out of town for a few days. I’ll have to try and get some measurements when we get home. I didn’t see any markings didn’t seem to get a lot of use.

 

[Woods_Wanderer]

Speaking of open screw vises, I picked up an 8" Merrill #8 over the weekend. It's been beat half to death, but when I have time this will be a project. It needs a new swivel base, new dynamic support shelf, some work on a previous repair on the static, and most of all a whole bunch of work on both jaw towers.

If anyone else here has a #8, I could use a whole bunch of measurements.

 

[CRSINMICH]

WW: This 1891 catalog page has some measurements but not many. Good luck with your restoration.

 

[TheRealZeus]

one day, someone will bring me a vise, and I only need grab a screwdriver to get jaws off, instead of all the other tools.

 

[jskeen]

Anybody recognize this little critter? No idea where it came from or who made it. Ran across it in a box of stuff in the loft of my shop, and decided it would be handy for shaping the top of bone guitar nuts because it has thinner jaws front to back than anything else in my shop except a pair of duckbill welding vise grips, (that are a pita to clamp into any thing else to hold them so I can file with both hands). Jaws are 3 3/4", and only meet ar the top edge, gap is about 1/4" at the bottom of the jaws when closed. No markings except the large #'s inside the (legs?). Not sure on the terminology. The screw and wing nut may not be original, but are almost as old, IMHO. Any ideas on what it was originally intended for, who made it, when and where, much appreciated.

 

[master Zoda]

Anybody recognize this little critter? No idea where it came from or who made it. Ran across it in a box of stuff in the loft of my shop, and decided it would be handy for shaping the top of bone guitar nuts because it has thinner jaws front to back than anything else in my shop except a pair of duckbill welding vise grips, (that are a pita to clamp into any thing else to hold them so I can file with both hands). Jaws are 3 3/4", and only meet ar the top edge, gap is about 1/4" at the bottom of the jaws when closed. No markings except the large #'s inside the (legs?). Not sure on the terminology. The screw and wing nut may not be original, but are almost as old, IMHO. Any ideas on what it was originally intended for, who made it, when and where, much appreciated.

Looks like a clamp/vise for sharpening hand saws to me.

 

[Shiftless]

one day, someone will bring me a vise, and I only need grab a screwdriver to get jaws off, instead of all the other tools.

I feel your pain. This was me last week.

 

[RTM]

Anybody recognize this little critter?…. Jaws are 3 3/4", and only meet ar the top edge, gap is about 1/4" at the bottom of the jaws when closed. No markings except the large #'s inside the (legs?). Not sure on the terminology. The screw and wing nut may not be original, but are almost as old, IMHO. Any ideas on what it was originally intended for, who made it, when and where, much appreciated.

Originally sold as a leather working tool, similar sized tools have been seen in a home leather repair kit from the 40s- 50s. A well known toolmonger friend listed one as a leather harness clamp. I have an ad somewhere for the leather kit.

Looks like a clamp/vise for sharpening hand saws to me.

Way too small, maybe for a tiny backsaw. Mine are 12” across. It kinda looks like them tho, but not enough tension to really do the job.

 

[bulletpruf]

Picked up a Chas Parker 973 from my neighbor today. Traded an old workbench for it; I'm moving back to Texas, so I'm unloading stuff that I don't have room for back home.

Anyway, it's got some character, missing the wrench and the correct bolt to hold the swivel in place. Handle is also bent up. Anyone know where I can find parts?

Plan is to clean it up (wire wheel, not sandblast) and maybe paint it with a matte clear and put it back into service. I recently did a Rock Island that way and it came out really nice.

Having said that, if it doesn't look great nekkid, I'll paint it. What was the factory color for these, and does anyone have a recommendation on a good match?

Almost forgot - any idea on what year this would have been manufactured?

Thanks

 

[MisterEd]

Made in West Germany, weighs less than 11 ounces and it's Blue. Significant Other thought we needed it and who am I to argue?

 

[Shiftless]

I finished the rehab on that rusty 4 inch bullet. Paint is Rustoleum Verde Green. I sanded off the minor dents and gouges in the jaw inserts and the anvil area but left the big ones. The jaw insert screws were rusted in place and damaged from somebody else trying to remove them. Once I got them out I replaced all 4 with new 5/16-18 three quarter inch long hex head cap screws. The handle was quite rusty and pitted so there is a limit on what a guy can do in that situation short of replacement.

 

[KMScott]

Finished these two up and they are already gobbled up here locally since it is vise starved down here in the low country.

 

[Shiftless]

Beautiful work as usual KMS.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Finished these two up and they are already gobbled up here locally since it is vise starved down here in the low country.

That looks identical to my 205. I notice yours has the jaws that bolt on through the face. Mine are pinned on. Is the bolt on type an upgrade you did?

 

[KMScott]

That looks identical to my 205. I notice yours has the jaws that bolt on through the face. Mine are pinned on. Is the bolt on type an upgrade you did?

No, these jaws were made by me but the jaw pockets were cut by the vise maker. There is no easy way the transform Tee style jaws into flat rectangle jaws like the ones on my vise.

I guess I seen your vise and liked the color since they both match.

Just a note: I measured the pipe jaws and created the geometry in case someone wants to make a set. The Dynamic has a different tooth pattern than the two Static ones. Yours are the same as mine. Also I was really impressed with the quality of the casting, built light and very precision. Don’t have pic:s on my I-Pad to share but I took pic:s to remind me. Vacationing with my wife here in SC.

 

[Shiftless]

KMS:
Glad to hear that your are living the good life. Restoring old vises in a fully equipped shop and having your own boat to go fishing anytime you want to and vacationing with your wife sounds like a dream.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

No, these jaws were made by me but the jaw pockets were cut by the vise maker. There is no easy way the transform Tee style jaws into flat rectangle jaws like the ones on my vise.

I guess I seen your vise and liked the color since they both match.

Just a note: I measured the pipe jaws and created the geometry in case someone wants to make a set. The Dynamic has a different tooth pattern than the two Static ones. Yours are the same as mine. Also I was really impressed with the quality of the casting, built light and very precision. Don’t have pic:s on my I-Pad to share but I took pic:s to remind me. Vacationing with my wife here in SC.

Yours looks great! I got extremely lucky. I was missing one pipe jaw and found just one on eBay. It happened to be the one that fit the dynamic I guess because it was different than the other two. I plan on going back and polishing the handle and locks. I’m also impressed with the quality of this vise. I only wish the lettering was a little nicer. For some reason in my areas the Columbians go cheaper than the other big brands.

 

[KMScott]

KMS:
Glad to hear that your are living the good life. Restoring old vises in a fully equipped shop and having your own boat to go fishing anytime you want to and vacationing with your wife sounds like a dream.

Shift, you should have seen the looks I got when I went to Hilton Head to pick up a vise collector and his family and also load a Reed 209 in my boat. I wish I took better pic:s because how many 9” vises are loaded on a fishing boat.

 

[merkyworks]

Shift, you should have seen the looks I got when I went to Hilton Head to pick up a vise collector and his family and also load a Reed 209 in my boat. I wish I took better pic:s because how many 9” vises are loaded on a fishing boat.

those are some mighty large balls

 

[Pileit]

Retreived this from N old camp my grandad had behind house. FoundAnvil as well, its big too.