Advice for a TIG welder for a beginner

[newpain01]

Hey everyone!
I've been using a flux core welder for a couple years and now looking to learn to TIG weld more delicate parts and occasionally do some aluminum welding for some projects. I mostly work around motorcycles.

I did some research and I can see the Primeweld TIG225X AC/DC at $869 is often recommended and I saw some recommendations for the Arccaptain TIG200P AC DC which is $650.

Anyone using the Arccaptain TIG200P? Is it as good as the Primeweld?
Anything I should keep in mind?

The Primeweld has a few options for a torch:

• CK17 - 12.5ft - 150 amps - Air Cooled
• CK17 - 25ft - 150 amps - Air Cooled
• CK26 - 12.5ft - 200 amps - Air Cooled

I am wondering if I would need the 200amp torch? Is it better for aluminum? Will I see a difference between the CK17 and the CK26? Honestly I would probably only weld a couple pieces aluminum a year, but if I am getting a new welder I want to have the option to weld aluminum.

Primeweld also sells full argon tanks on their website for $360, is that the normal price these days?

Appreciate any advice!

 

[LopezBart]

This is worth reading for some general idea:

WD-100: Buying your First Welder

training.esabna.com

How thick a material do you want to weld? TIG rule of thumb for aluminum is 1 amp per .001 material thickness + 20%; a 200 amp TIG welder would thus be able to weld 5/32" thick aluminum, whereas a 150 amp setup would just manage 1/8" plate.

A TIG welder is one of things I want when I finish my shop as well.

 

[pi_guy]

I bought my first TIG Miller in 1978 a few years ago it was still working in a race shop.
My suitcase Miller TIG about 15 years ago. Has paid for its self many times over.

I you really want to do this well, buy a Miller

 

[newpain01]

This is worth reading for some general idea:

WD-100: Buying your First Welder

training.esabna.com

How thick a material do you want to weld? TIG rule of thumb for aluminum is 1 amp per .001 material thickness + 20%; a 200 amp TIG welder would thus be able to weld 5/32" thick aluminum, whereas a 150 amp setup would just manage 1/8" plate.

A TIG welder is one of things I want when I finish my shop as well.

Good to know, thanks for the info. I don't think I'll be working with aluminum thicker than 5/32". So the torch will be the limiting factor, not the welder.

I bought my first TIG Miller in 1978 a few years ago it was still working in a race shop.
My suitcase Miller TIG about 15 years ago. Has paid for its self many times over.

I you really want to do this well, buy a Miller

Thanks for the suggestion, but I can't afford to spend thousands on a welder for a hobby. I am not doing this professionally and do not plan to weld professionally either.

 

[American Locomotive]

I bought my first TIG Miller in 1978 a few years ago it was still working in a race shop.
My suitcase Miller TIG about 15 years ago. Has paid for its self many times over.

I you really want to do this well, buy a Miller

Good to know, thanks for the info. I don't think I'll be working with aluminum thicker than 5/32". So the torch will be the limiting factor, not the welder.


Thanks for the suggestion, but I can't afford to spend thousands on a welder for a hobby. I am not doing this professionally and do not plan to weld professionally either.

Pre-Covid, I would have 100% agreed with pi_guy. Both Lincoln and Miller had great deals with entry level TIG machines. The Lincoln Square Wave 200 was a killer value when it launched. It was insane to get a brand-name AC/DC machine at its price point.

However, a Square Wave 200 now costs nearly $1000 more than it did when it launched in in 2017. Same for Miller. The value just isn't there anymore, and the "lesser" machines have increased greatly in quality and features.

Lots of people have good things to say about "lesser" machines like the Primeweld, HTP, AHP Alpha Tig, and others.

 

[pi_guy]

Pre-Covid, I would have 100% agreed with pi_guy. Both Lincoln and Miller had great deals with entry level TIG machines. The Lincoln Square Wave 200 was a killer value when it launched. It was insane to get a brand-name AC/DC machine at its price point.

However, a Square Wave 200 now costs nearly $1000 more than it did when it launched in in 2017. Same for Miller. The value just isn't there anymore, and the "lesser" machines have increased greatly in quality and features.

Lots of people have good things to say about "lesser" machines like the Primeweld, HTP, AHP Alpha Tig, and others.

Buy used.

My first machine needed parts after 30 years. There was no problem.

It a buy once cry once setup.

 

[Beerhippie]

Find out who the welding suppliers in your area are. They may be a little more expensive than buying on-line, but, like tool trucks, they're also a source of support, knowledge, supplies and repair held when/if you need it. Buy your gas through them--you can usually lease a bottle for very little if they're the ones refilling it. Having your own bottle may sound like a good idea, until the truck shows up and swaps it out for a full one--then it's lost in the system and not yours anymore.

An air-cooled gun at 150 or 200 Amps will allow you weld for maybe one minute before the torch gets too hot to hold. Even with my Miller 150 suitcase running between 80 and 100 Amps, I can usually get no more than about eight inches of weld before I have to let the gun cool.

 

[finn]

I bought my first TIG Miller in 1978 a few years ago it was still working in a race shop.
My suitcase Miller TIG about 15 years ago. Has paid for its self many times over.

I you really want to do this well, buy a Miller

I have both a Miller Multimatic that does AC and Dc tig,mas well as mig, a Primeweld 225x ac/dc tig, and an HTP Invertig ac/dc tig

If you’re a beginning welder, buy the Primeweld. Their focus is small shops and hobbiest.

HTP is good, but not worth the additional expense for a beginner. Don’t know much about them since the new management took over. Just don’t hear much buzz. My machine is fifteen years old now, and is fine.

Miller is in third place. Their focus is large, professional shops, not beginners or hobby shops.

 

[LopezBart]

Miller is in third place. Their focus is large, professional shops, not beginners or hobby shops.

I remember the excellent support we got from Miller when we were building a laser-guided robotic welding cell for the BFV turrrets back in the mid 80s. Serious welder - 450 amps MIG, 30+ volts. The arc would give one a nasty sunburn though a dress shirt watching from 30' away; I could see the buttons as lighter spots on my chest the next day. Made that mistake once.

 

[pi_guy]

I have both a Miller Multimatic that does AC and Dc tig,mas well as mig, a Primeweld 225x ac/dc tig, and an HTP Invertig ac/dc tig

If you’re a beginning welder, buy the Primeweld. Their focus is small shops and hobbiest.

HTP is good, but not worth the additional expense for a beginner. Don’t know much about them since the new management took over. Just don’t hear much buzz. My machine is fifteen years old now, and is fine.

Miller is in third place. Their focus is large, professional shops, not beginners or hobby shops.

Go to PRI and see the Miller booth and tell me they don't care about small shops.

 

[txvwnut]

Alphatig www.ahpwelds.com. I've been very happy with both of mine.

 

[finn]

Go to PRI and see the Miller booth and tell me they don't care about small shops.

Check out all the reports by small time owners that wait for six or more months for replacement boards while the business users with fifty machines get fast service.

 

[newpain01]

Alphatig www.ahpwelds.com. I've been very happy with both of mine.

Pretty good prices, they have a sale now. Which models do you have? Do you weld aluminum with them?

 

[Crazyjake8493]

AHP deserves some consideration for entry level TIG welders. I have no experience with the newer models, but I'm still regularly using my 2015 AlphaTIG 200x and haven't had a single issue in 10 years now. If mine ever dies, I'll probably look into their newer models. Mine has paid for itself many times over at this point.

80% of my welding is TIG, the other 20% being flux core (which I admittedly **** at) for mower deck repairs and such.

 

[txvwnut]

I have a 201x and a 203xi. Yes I do a fair amount of aluminum. The 201 is mainly a backup machine as the readout fluctuates so much it makes it hard to set the amperage.

 

[dcummer]

How thick a material do you want to weld? TIG rule of thumb for aluminum is 1 amp per .001 material thickness + 20%; a 200 amp TIG welder would thus be able to weld 5/32" thick aluminum, whereas a 150 amp setup would just manage 1/8" plate.

One amp per .001" stock thickness for steel as a starting point is what I've always heard (and used) - make adjustments based on geometry. My limited experience with aluminum required way more heat. But to call my welding 'amateur' would be generous, so feel free to ignore.

 

[cannuck]

My current Miller 250A TIG has been carrying the load for the last 40 years with no failure. It replaced a water cooled Midstates 400A unit lost in shop fire. The Miller transformer machine is the most inefficient welder I have ever used - easily max out a 70A breaker at top end. I will eventually retire it to standby status for an inverter with water cooled torch, but after shelling out $10k for my last Miller (255 with push-pull gun) I am looking seriously at Primeweld. While you can't go wrong with blue, you could go broke. A good friend also has a Primeweld big TIG machine and it works very well ineed. I gues what I am trying to say to the OP: don't be fed the Snapon, Harley Davidson, CAT, John Deere line of **** about being so much better than "lesser" machines. In some cases just ain't so.

 

[txvwnut]

How thick a material do you want to weld? TIG rule of thumb for aluminum is 1 amp per .001 material thickness + 20%; a 200 amp TIG welder would thus be able to weld 5/32" thick aluminum, whereas a 150 amp setup would just manage 1/8" plate.

The same rule of thumb applies to aluminum but you add 10 or 20 percent. Pre-heat changes what a welder will be able to handle when it comes to AL or actually any metal. I do aluminum cylinder heads with mine after they get a 20 minute pre-heat.

 

[Beerhippie]

I never meant to endorse Miller--it's just what we have at the shop. Miller has abandoned their older machines--or made it cheaper to buy new than repair. When our Miller plasma cutter burned out a board, we ended up with a good deal on a Hypertherm from our suppliers that is twice the machine the old Miller ever was.

I've been watching some Utube videos on some of the sub-$1K welders around these days, and they seem to offer far more useful features than our ten-year-old Miller Maxstar 150 STH--at half the price.

Fanciest feature on the Maxstar is pulsed DC--no pre- or post- flow, no ramping, no pulse adjustment but frequency....

But it is tiny and lightweight. When my welding supply guy brought it by, I tried to return it immediately. It took some doing for him to explain that is wasn't a toy, just that we were replacing an old reactor with the "new" inverter tech.

 

[newpain01]

I really don't mind getting a "lesser" or cheaper machine. I am not a professional welder/fabricator nor do I plan to be one. This would be just another tool in the garage for occasional use, I am not welding every day, maybe once every couple weeks and my $100 Harbor Freight Titanium flux welder has been doing that just fine. I am at the point where I want to learn TIG and have a chance to build some aluminum motorcycle parts and that's why am looking at this. Honestly, even $1000 for a TIG machine is hard to justify for something I would use a couple times a year for a hobby, but maybe one day it will pay for itself. I understand that many of you guys do this professionally and that's fine, but it's a totally different environment and need from mine.

 

[dnschmidt]

Primeweld is impossible to beat. Their welders are fine for your intended usage and their customer service is the best in the business superior to Miller, Lincoln or ESAB and one of the owners answers the phone.

 

[newpain01]

Yeah, I pretty much decided on the Primeweld TIG225X. How about the torch options? Is the CK17 good enough or should I go for the CK26?

 

[American Locomotive]

Yeah, I pretty much decided on the Primeweld TIG225X. How about the torch options? Is the CK17 good enough or should I go for the CK26?

I can't speak for a 26 class torch, but the 17 series on my Square Wave has been fine. A 26 will be bigger and heavier.

The biggest thing is that any air cooled torch will get very hot, even at lower amperage settings. Liquid cooled will probably be the next upgrade for my Lincoln.

Check out all the reports by small time owners that wait for six or more months for replacement boards while the business users with fifty machines get fast service.

That's why I used to advocate for the bame brands. But lately I've been hearing that Lincoln (and apparently Miller) has poor support for their lower end machines too. People have complained about boards for the Power Mig 210 and Square Wave being not available, or outrageously expensive. So if your machine costs 3x as much and you don't get the support - where's the value?

I think Hypertherm is the only "premium" brand that still goes way out of their way to support customers.

 

[Tundra1]

Dunno if you have decided where to buy from, but weldmonger had a popup for 10% off first order. He has some starter kits along or just the primeweld welder. I've never bought from them but really enjoy the YouTube channel.

 

[newpain01]

Dunno if you have decided where to buy from, but weldmonger had a popup for 10% off first order. He has some starter kits along or just the primeweld welder. I've never bought from them but really enjoy the YouTube channel.

Thanks, I'll check it out. I was going to get it from home depot, I have a 10% coupon there as well and can return in store if something's wrong. But they only have one option and sell it as a package with the CK17 torch, cannot change it.

 

[finn]

Yeah, I pretty much decided on the Primeweld TIG225X. How about the torch options? Is the CK17 good enough or should I go for the CK26?

I would start with the CK17 torch. It works for me, although it does get warm after a while, but if you’re a beginner it shouldn’t matter.

Plenty of time to upgrade to a cooler or heavier duty torch if you really get into it.

The name brand machines have better, ie automatic pre programmed settings that help a beginner. The Primeweld is pretty easy to learn on, for the price. Just read the provided manual and setup instructions.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Yeah, I pretty much decided on the Primeweld TIG225X. How about the torch options? Is the CK17 good enough or should I go for the CK26?

Your mind might be made up but I will add this.

A couple of guys I follow on YouTube, On Fire Welding & Freedom Fabrication have tested the Arccaptain welders and give honest responses about them.

For the price, and what I would use it for/how much I would use it, I would seriously consider one.

 

[newpain01]

Your mind might be made up but I will add this.

A couple of guys I follow on YouTube, On Fire Welding & Freedom Fabrication have tested the Arccaptain welders and give honest responses about them.

For the price, and what I would use it for/how much I would use it, I would seriously consider one.

That's the one I mentioned in my original post, the Arccaptain TIG200P priced at $650. I watched some youtube videos too and some guys had good reviews for the unit. It comes with a 5 year warranty, but it's a Chinese company and who knows if they will be around in 5 years. After the discount at home depot, I can get the Primeweld TIG225X for $780, so it's $130 more than the Arccaptain. Decisions, decisions...

 

[newpain01]

Find out who the welding suppliers in your area are. They may be a little more expensive than buying on-line, but, like tool trucks, they're also a source of support, knowledge, supplies and repair held when/if you need it. Buy your gas through them--you can usually lease a bottle for very little if they're the ones refilling it. Having your own bottle may sound like a good idea, until the truck shows up and swaps it out for a full one--then it's lost in the system and not yours anymore.

It's pretty much only Airgas and I've been trying to avoid them as much as possible. I've been paying through the nose for CO2 refills there.

 

[no704]

Have a HF 205 Vulcan tig for about 2 years. Lots of functions no problems yet.

 

[Beerhippie]

It's pretty much only Airgas and I've been trying to avoid them as much as possible. I've been paying through the nose for CO2 refills there.

That's unfortunate. We have OXARC out here and even though we are far from a large scale shop, they've been very, very good to us. Our fist Hypertherm plasma died on us a couple of months after buying it. I called OXARC about the warranty and the next day, the truck was here with a new unit to swap out--even 'though it wasn't their usual delivery day!

 

[no704]

For CO2 my local brewery supplies store has a generator and refills bottles pretty reasonably.

 

[Beerhippie]

For CO2 my local brewery supplies store has a generator and refills bottles pretty reasonably.

But for most TIG welding, you'll be using 100% argon. Breweries produce very little of that.

 

[newpain01]

For CO2 my local brewery supplies store has a generator and refills bottles pretty reasonably.

That's what I've been doing too with the newer tanks, but I had to exchange the older expired tanks at Airgas. They don't care if the tank is expired or not, it's a fixed rate.

 

[newpain01]

But for most TIG welding, you'll be using 100% argon. Breweries produce very little of that.

Exactly. I mentioned CO2 because I've been using Airgas for that. I see Primeweld sells full argon tanks and they are cheaper than my local NorthernTool store. I'll call Airgas to get a quote before ordering online though.

 

[Beerhippie]

Exactly. I mentioned CO2 because I've been using Airgas for that. I see Primeweld sells full argon tanks and they are cheaper than my local NorthernTool store. I'll call Airgas to get a quote before ordering online though.

We use the 50 lb Ar tanks and with the amount of TIG I do, replace them about every two years--your usage will probably be similar.

 

[newpain01]

We use the 50 lb Ar tanks and with the amount of TIG I do, replace them about every two years--your usage will probably be similar.

Is that 125CF? According to the internet, the 125CF tank should last around 10hrs of TIG welding. How much do you weld?

 

[Beerhippie]

Is that 125CF? According to the internet, the 125CF tank should last around 10hrs of TIG welding. How much do you weld?

It's the four-foot tall one

I tend to think of tank capacities as if they were propane--and this would be a fifty gallon propane.

But, anyhow, no I don't do a great deal of TIG. Even back when I was helping build out the brewery and running TIG every day, I don't recall going through more than one tank a week. I typically run 20-30 CFH. Most of the TIG I do is fusion welding on thin-wall SS tubing, so it goes fast.

 

[newpain01]

It's the four-foot tall one

I tend to think of tank capacities as if they were propane--and this would be a fifty gallon propane.

But, anyhow, no I don't do a great deal of TIG. Even back when I was helping build out the brewery and running TIG every day, I don't recall going through more than one tank a week. I typically run 20-30 CFH. Most of the TIG I do is fusion welding on thin-wall SS tubing, so it goes fast.

Yeah, I think the 125CF is 4ft tall.
I also think of them as propane tanks or CO2 tanks, so it's hard to convert and get an idea. How much does it cost you to refill it?

 

[Beerhippie]

Yeah, I think the 125CF is 4ft tall.
I also think of them as propane tanks or CO2 tanks, so it's hard to convert and get an idea. How much does it cost you to refill it?

I don't pay for welding gas

Our bill from OXARC is unfathomable. Mostly we buy CO2 in very large quantities. Yeah, we're a brewery and produce plenty of CO2 through fermentation, but we tried a CO2 reclamation system and got royally screwed.