JustVicingIt
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- May 6, 2025
- Messages
- 179
After searching for awhile, finally found the one to replace my Craftsman. $150, so not half bad.
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
milkovich
Well-known member
I'm not much of a vise nerd (more of a chronic vise abuser) but this is the one vise I've been on a long quest for. It's an Emmert K1 pattern maker's vise and looks to be a "U5" post WW2 iteration.
I lucked out at an auction where it was listed simply "pattern vise" and only 1 or 2 other bidders knew what it was. I took a wild risk on it, and it turns out to be complete (minus the tilt plate) and crack/repair free. The plan is to clean the guts with new grease, but not "restore" it. I'm a big fan of "brown oxide" patina and the little white paint flecks that nearly every vintage tool wears. I'm still in a little bit of awe as I've looked at a few of these in my price range and they were all welded/brazed back together and seldom complete with dogs, this one is almost to nice for me (almost). It's clearly had an easy life of heavy use but there are precious few signs of mistreatment on the jaws. I'd be really curious about the history but there was none.
The chunky 5"x5" boards it's sitting on are steelyard dunnage and I'm going to try to plane it up and build my next bench out of it as it's all hardwood (white/red oak mostly).
I lucked out at an auction where it was listed simply "pattern vise" and only 1 or 2 other bidders knew what it was. I took a wild risk on it, and it turns out to be complete (minus the tilt plate) and crack/repair free. The plan is to clean the guts with new grease, but not "restore" it. I'm a big fan of "brown oxide" patina and the little white paint flecks that nearly every vintage tool wears. I'm still in a little bit of awe as I've looked at a few of these in my price range and they were all welded/brazed back together and seldom complete with dogs, this one is almost to nice for me (almost). It's clearly had an easy life of heavy use but there are precious few signs of mistreatment on the jaws. I'd be really curious about the history but there was none.
The chunky 5"x5" boards it's sitting on are steelyard dunnage and I'm going to try to plane it up and build my next bench out of it as it's all hardwood (white/red oak mostly).
RTM
Well-known member
Buddy of mine put one back together, and I forget which plate he had to remake.
Hope this hopes.
Hosted here
milkovich
Well-known member
Ah sorry, I'm talking about the K13 tilt plate that lets the front jaw (which only tilts on a horizontal plane) tilt on a vertical plane. The "mount plate" is fine but a little stiff. I'm not sure if the K13 was optional or not, but it's nearly always missing at least in the ones I've seen after a few years of looking. There is a gentleman making replica K13s on ebay and I will probably go that route although I really only tend to hold flat boards.
Another patternmaker's vise
The seat addition to the bench also makes it perfect to use another one of my favorite vises mostly used for plane making or carving odd shaped items that need constant repositioning. It is held on the bench through one of the hold fast collars and it rotates 360 degrees. Jaws also swivel to hold...
www.wheelhorseforum.com
Here's some inspiration for a workbench to go with the vise. I like how it's mounted on the end of the workbench.
Edit: not mine, just one I liked when researching Emmert vises.
milkovich
Well-known member
That's amazing! I have twin Fulton 10" wood working vises I was going to arrange exactly that way, I find I constantly plane 4' stock and it's a pain. I was going to put them between 3 and 4 feet apart. I also have a narrow bench like that currently but it's up against a wall, using it as an island is genius!
Midwest Shop Supply
Well-known member
haha yeah good point. Oh well, I'll make some out of bronze as well.
Shiftless
Well-known member
I haven’t heard that phrase for a long time,
Maybe we need to revive that old saying. I found info stating that it started in the early 1940’s probably in the military. It certainly sums up the painful ignorance some people exhibit all too regularly.
That workbench is so awesome. Even has his clamps stored on the back. I think the two vises along the front would be nice to have for planing longer stock. Having the Emmert on the end seems useful as well. Emmert workbench image search turns up a good many mounted on the end, so it must have been fairly common.
milkovich
Well-known member
I got curious, I couldn't find many good images of them in production, but here are a few of some pattern shops with the vises in action. If you're into therbligs and work flow, these pictures are a treat.
The two guys defiantly leaving the vises wide open.I got curious, I couldn't find many good images of them in production, but here are a few of some pattern shops with the vises in action. If you're into therbligs and work flow, these pictures are a treat.
neophyte
Well-known member
I’m still hoping the Taiwanese manufacturer who was making the ductile iron Emmert vise clone, that Woodcraft and a few other places sold, will put the vise back in production.
For whatever reason, during Covid, the vise disappeared from the market, and is still missing.
Originals, even when you find a deal, are still way more expensive.
For whatever reason, during Covid, the vise disappeared from the market, and is still missing.
Originals, even when you find a deal, are still way more expensive.
RTM
Well-known member
Lee Valley had one, the Tucker, and they said the molds were unusable, and wasn't economically feasible to remake them.
closer to the horses mouth, from someone I've actually met before
OldTools Archive
I acquired my Tucker directly from Lee Valley, after talking with Robin Lee by phone a couple years after they stopped selling these vises. I talked Robin into parting with the very last one he said they still had anywhere in Lee Valley. He told me upon agreement to sell it that what I was going receive was the last one “LV will ever sell”. I asked him why, and he answered that the bid prices for replacement of the worn-out tooling needed for a new production run were much higher than they could economically justify, and would make it by far the most expensive product they would be offering - it probably wouldn’t sell
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milkovich
Well-known member
After posting in this thread for the first time I got to thinking about the other vises I have laying around and the all purpose “garage vise” turns out to be a rare bird. In fact, I present the only picture of a Simplex 41sj (swivel jaw) on the internet (that isn’t the simplex catalog). Freshly covered in pink overspray from the recent paint job to my daughter’s hand me down bike.
neophyte
Well-known member
I remember when Lee Valley started offering the Tucker vise.Lee Valley had one, the Tucker, and they said the molds were unusable, and wasn't economically feasible to remake them.
closer to the horses mouth, from someone I've actually met before
OldTools Archive
oldtools.swingleydev.com
I acquired my Tucker directly from Lee Valley, after talking with Robin Lee by phone a couple years after they stopped selling these vises. I talked Robin into parting with the very last one he said they still had anywhere in Lee Valley. He told me upon agreement to sell it that what I was going receive was the last one “LV will ever sell”. I asked him why, and he answered that the bid prices for replacement of the worn-out tooling needed for a new production run were much higher than they could economically justify, and would make it by far the most expensive product they would be offering - it probably wouldn’t sell
As I recall, it was extremely expensive then, and way more expensive than the Taiwanese copy, which at the time was around $200.
Around 2019, the Taiwanese copy was maybe $300-$350, and the Tucker was unavailable, and hadn’t been for more than a decade, if not close to two decades.
If I recall correctly, the Tucker vise was also dome sort of die cast zinc alloy, and I’m a bit apprehensive about die cast zinc alloys.
Even if the Taiwanese copy had doubled in price in the current year, it would still likely be as cheap or cheaper than buying many of the older beat up US made patternmaker’s vises.
Provincial
Well-known member
I have never seen a Reed 104 with a notch in the static jaw housing like this. Is it a field modification, or were some made this way?
RTM
Well-known member
Looks broken out or hammered on from here, so I'd go with rough field fit as my guess. Maybe on a computer screen it looks better.I have never seen a Reed 104 with a notch in the static jaw housing like this. Is it a field modification, or were some made this way?
Maybe someone wanted a place to tap pins out
Shiftless
Well-known member
four.cycle
Well-known member
NEW uploads at International Tool Catalog Library!
check it out - scroll down a bit: Prentiss, Wilton, Rock Island, Columbian, Morgan, Goodell Pratt, Parker...
Donations are gladly accepted at ITCL!!!
check it out - scroll down a bit: Prentiss, Wilton, Rock Island, Columbian, Morgan, Goodell Pratt, Parker...
Donations are gladly accepted at ITCL!!!
Kind of amusing and curious how Wilton used the same bases for a lot of their vises, across several years but changed the inner rings and locking pad attachments on different vises that used the same base. I've counted a several different types/methods so far. I guess in a way it shows that they were continually trying to improve their products.
Work in progress. Dirty. Cleaned. Will degrease, reassemble, and paint next week. This is an 8400 HD. Date on key is 10-52, so a 1947 model. I bought the base, which was original to a 1750, separately. The base is correct but this vise was either sold as a stationary model, or the original swivel base was lost. To be correct it would need the 1010810 inner ring with pivot pin, instead of the locking pads that the 1750 used. but it will work this way and it locks down tight. I'll keep looking for a reasonably priced inner ring in the meantime.
Something I may do in the short term is sink a lag screw into my workbench, so that it's centered in the base. Cut off the head, leaving the lag's 1/2" diameter smooth shaft (shoulder), sticking up just far enough to sit inside the pivot pin hole in the bottom of the vise when it's assembled onto the base. That would keep the vise from moving from side to side when the swivel handles are loosened. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that.
Something I may do in the short term is sink a lag screw into my workbench, so that it's centered in the base. Cut off the head, leaving the lag's 1/2" diameter smooth shaft (shoulder), sticking up just far enough to sit inside the pivot pin hole in the bottom of the vise when it's assembled onto the base. That would keep the vise from moving from side to side when the swivel handles are loosened. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that.
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
Morgan Junior Vise
I saw this two years ago at an antique store a few hours away. I was surprised it was still there when I returned to the same store two weeks ago.
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Patrickm82
Well-known member
Is it in your shop now? It seems like fate.
Morgan Junior Vise
I saw this two years ago at an antique store a few hours away. I was surprised it was still there when I returned to the same store two weeks ago.
micahd1997
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2022
- Messages
- 263
I’ve kicked off a new thread that I would GREATLY appreciate responses and input to:
Thread 'The Oldest Prentiss Vise'
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-oldest-prentiss-vise.546401/
My full, extensive post is included in the thread above, but I’ve provided a portion below as well as a few of the pictures:
________________________________________
Recently, I was overjoyed to have found this very early, very rare 4” Prentiss vise. I identified it a couple months ago, and a good friend picked it up and shipped it to me from Pennsylvania.
This 4”, 52lb Prentiss vise bears the “dog” fastening feature for retaining the main screw (as opposed to the typical collar and grub screw combination). Based on available advertisements and statements made by the Prentiss Vise Company, this vise and specific feature almost irrefutably date back to the early 1890s (but certainly no later than 1897). To the masses and even the avid vise collector, it makes sense that the “dog” fastening feature isn’t noted, photographed, or even acknowledged. After all, it’s not objectively glamorous or spectacular, and even though it’s certainly different, most people would chalk it up to an aftermarket adaptation or simply give it a “Hmm…interesting” before forgetting about it. Because of this, though this early style IS truly rare, I also believe there are MORE out there than we might think. So please – Check YOUR Prentiss vise’s undercarriage and post a picture if you see a “dog” staring back at you.
Thread 'The Oldest Prentiss Vise'
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-oldest-prentiss-vise.546401/
My full, extensive post is included in the thread above, but I’ve provided a portion below as well as a few of the pictures:
________________________________________
Recently, I was overjoyed to have found this very early, very rare 4” Prentiss vise. I identified it a couple months ago, and a good friend picked it up and shipped it to me from Pennsylvania.
This 4”, 52lb Prentiss vise bears the “dog” fastening feature for retaining the main screw (as opposed to the typical collar and grub screw combination). Based on available advertisements and statements made by the Prentiss Vise Company, this vise and specific feature almost irrefutably date back to the early 1890s (but certainly no later than 1897). To the masses and even the avid vise collector, it makes sense that the “dog” fastening feature isn’t noted, photographed, or even acknowledged. After all, it’s not objectively glamorous or spectacular, and even though it’s certainly different, most people would chalk it up to an aftermarket adaptation or simply give it a “Hmm…interesting” before forgetting about it. Because of this, though this early style IS truly rare, I also believe there are MORE out there than we might think. So please – Check YOUR Prentiss vise’s undercarriage and post a picture if you see a “dog” staring back at you.
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CRSINMICH
Well-known member
Patrick: Yes it is in my shop now. I had regretted not buying it since I first saw it, especially when I couldn't find any references to it. It became a combination unicorn, hen's tooth, and white whale. I couldn't believe it when I finally made it back to the antique shop and the vise was in the exact spot it had been two years previously and it had the same price tag. I got lucky. The time to buy rare items is when you see them.
Shiftless
Well-known member
CRS: It looks like you scored a one of a kind. Congrats on securing a one and only representation on the big vise spreadsheet for your Morgan Junior 
And oh by the way….. YOU **** !!
And oh by the way….. YOU **** !!
CRSINMICH
Well-known member
Shift: I didn't even say how little uh, much I paid for it.
I could have added some drama to the story if I had said that it was a race to the antique shop before it closed. Made it with 20 minutes to spare.
BTW, the specs are on the Vise Info thread.
I could have added some drama to the story if I had said that it was a race to the antique shop before it closed. Made it with 20 minutes to spare.
BTW, the specs are on the Vise Info thread.
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Shiftless
Well-known member
Finding such a rare vise and in seemingly excellent condition earns a you **** at just about ANY price. Little vises from Prentiss are not common but there are more than a few in GJ collections. They trade at prices of several hundred dollars each. I sold one for $400
Your baby Morgan seems to me more valuable at least to us collectors.
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LOL, I received a Junior (5") this week as well, been on the lookout for a few years for a good one.
Morgan Junior Vise
I saw this two years ago at an antique store a few hours away. I was surprised it was still there when I returned to the same store two weeks ago.
Not as rare or as nice as yours however.
And strangely beefier than the 6", similar to the 7"
The 7" grow on trees, Juniors pop up every now and again, this is the only 6" I've seen,
5" is 1971 to-1977, 6", 7" are 1978 on (150/175 cm)
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And seeing the 'dog' fastening method on the Prentiss in the following post, I like that set up simple, easy movement, works well on these vices.
Found another of the Parkinson copy vices (English-Marples, Woden and a heap of others did copies) finished both examples I have yesterday, I'll post some finished pics later today, when I can take some pics in the sun, Liked the Hammered blue so much did the second one the same-even heat cured them in the oven-going to keep doing that-the paint is so much harder and better.
Found another of the Parkinson copy vices (English-Marples, Woden and a heap of others did copies) finished both examples I have yesterday, I'll post some finished pics later today, when I can take some pics in the sun, Liked the Hammered blue so much did the second one the same-even heat cured them in the oven-going to keep doing that-the paint is so much harder and better.
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And seeing the 'dog' fastening method on the Prentiss in the following post, I like that set up simple, easy movement, works well on these vices.
Found another of the Parkinson copy vices (English-Marples, Woden and a heap of others did copies) finished both examples I have yesterday, I'll post some finished pics later today, when I can take some pics in the sun, Liked the Hammered blue so much did the second one the same-even heat cured them in the oven-going to keep doing that-the paint is so much harder and better.
A few differences, rounded handle, side retaining screw, 4.15kg / 9.1lb
Square handle, bottom retaining screw, 3.75kg / 8.3lb, either a makers or ID mark in milled area on bottom, protruding jaws
Both 62mm / 2 3/8" jaws
The rounded handle one was lovingly restored, had been filed and sanded, dipped in hot tin or something similar including handle, maybe a electrically charged finish as it was a uniform hard finish, a primer/filler as well on painted areas and maybe the slide and top including jaws milled.
I couldn't work it out, just too good and didn't want another red vice, makes more sense to me now.
This one is a keeper really nice operation, no slop, will sell the second one at some stage, that's pretty good as well.
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basikdeath
Member
Just finished up restoring a Craftsman 5162 (Rock Island) that was pretty dang rough... even had some flaws in the casting. But it turned out pretty clean I must say.
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I had a C. Parker No. 4 already, so when I found this No. 1 for sale, I made an offer and bought it...
It has a chipped jaw that won't affect it's useability, and the slide is cracked...
I'll see if I can braze that...
Otherwise, it seems to be in great condition, considering it's age... there is almost no detectable backlash in the screw, the jaw faces are decent...
...and the hole in the screw for the handle is not wallowed out like my No. 4...
The handle is not straight... I'll have to see if I can straighten it some.
-Bear
It has a chipped jaw that won't affect it's useability, and the slide is cracked...
I'll see if I can braze that...
Otherwise, it seems to be in great condition, considering it's age... there is almost no detectable backlash in the screw, the jaw faces are decent...
...and the hole in the screw for the handle is not wallowed out like my No. 4...
The handle is not straight... I'll have to see if I can straighten it some.
-Bear
I'm restoring the 8400 HD I bought. This time I had Home Depot mix up some PPG Mucho Mint, (MTL122). These colors may not be exact matches to the original colors, but they're the closest I've been able to find, without paying somebody $150 for a can of spray paint. I had to brush this on today because I once again couldn't get the PreVal sprayer to feed the paint, even though I had thinned it down to 4 parts paint to 1 part water. I put four coats on, on top of the Rustoleum self etching primer I applied yesterday. Tomorrow I'll reassemble the vise. This one's going to replace the 350S I restored, to be my everyday vise, unless I go bigger at some point.
These colors are both metallic, and really pop under direct light.
These colors are both metallic, and really pop under direct light.
Many of those 4"old timer vises were built on 3 1/2" platforms. This was a 840 sitting on a 3 1/2" base. Wilton has since discontinued that base assembly . I have a couple on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/405857213952Work in progress. Dirty. Cleaned. Will degrease, reassemble, and paint next week. This is an 8400 HD. Date on key is 10-52, so a 1947 model. I bought the base, which was original to a 1750, separately. The base is correct but this vise was either sold as a stationary model, or the original swivel base was lost. To be correct it would need the 1010810 inner ring with pivot pin, instead of the locking pads that the 1750 used. but it will work this way and it locks down tight. I'll keep looking for a reasonably priced inner ring in the meantime.
Something I may do in the short term is sink a lag screw into my workbench, so that it's centered in the base. Cut off the head, leaving the lag's 1/2" diameter smooth shaft (shoulder), sticking up just far enough to sit inside the pivot pin hole in the bottom of the vise when it's assembled onto the base. That would keep the vise from moving from side to side when the swivel handles are loosened. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that.
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Thanks, I may take you up on that, for the next one if you still have them.
But in the meantime I used this idea that I came up with, mostly because even with the proper inner ring the side to side movement, when loosened enough to swivel the vise just bothers me. I'm by no means OCD, but it does. I sunk a 1/2" by 8" lag bolt into my workbench, then took it out and cut the head off and chamfered the stub. Then screwed it back in.
the stub fits into the center hole on the bottom of the vise's body and keeps it from sliding side to side when I loosen the handles to swivel it.
Even the 350S sitting next to it, with it's proper inner ring moves side to side more when I'm swiveling it than this one now does.
The part number of the base on the 400 is the same for 400, 450, 500, and 1750's. This base was originally for a 1750 according to the seller I bought it from, and it only came with the mounting pads (cleats), but no inner ring. Even though I essentially bubba'd it, since it's just for me and it works I'm happy with the setup so far.
What do you guys think of that green paint? Pretty close match to the original? Or not?
edit: in perusing some of the old catalogs I happened upon a note in an excerpt from the 1942 catalog included below which essentially indicates the HD vises were built to milspec.
But in the meantime I used this idea that I came up with, mostly because even with the proper inner ring the side to side movement, when loosened enough to swivel the vise just bothers me. I'm by no means OCD, but it does. I sunk a 1/2" by 8" lag bolt into my workbench, then took it out and cut the head off and chamfered the stub. Then screwed it back in.
the stub fits into the center hole on the bottom of the vise's body and keeps it from sliding side to side when I loosen the handles to swivel it.
Even the 350S sitting next to it, with it's proper inner ring moves side to side more when I'm swiveling it than this one now does.
The part number of the base on the 400 is the same for 400, 450, 500, and 1750's. This base was originally for a 1750 according to the seller I bought it from, and it only came with the mounting pads (cleats), but no inner ring. Even though I essentially bubba'd it, since it's just for me and it works I'm happy with the setup so far.
What do you guys think of that green paint? Pretty close match to the original? Or not?
edit: in perusing some of the old catalogs I happened upon a note in an excerpt from the 1942 catalog included below which essentially indicates the HD vises were built to milspec.
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fishwatcher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2023
- Messages
- 759
Great deal! Those Craftsman clean up real nice. This is mine (similar). I cleaned it up and put some boiled linseed oil on it. I might put a coat of paint on it since I just painted another vise red and have left over.Picked up a $20 Craftsman today...
It's in decent condition... there is some surface rust, and it feels extremely dry when turning the screw.
-Bear
