Racecarl
Well-known member
Hopefully this clears up what I was thinking. This method should straighten up the building. Then you can stake and brace the building and redo the sill and foundation, doing one wall at a time.
Gotta fix my (leaning/derelict) garage!!!
- Thread starter fergus
- Start date
Hopefully this clears up what I was thinking. This method should straighten up the building. Then you can stake and brace the building and redo the sill and foundation, doing one wall at a time.
burnitwithfire
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 42
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Hopefully this clears up what I was thinking. This method should straighten up the building. Then you can stake and brace the building and redo the sill and foundation, doing one wall at a time.
The more I look at this, the more I think it would be a good way to rip off the roof as you are pulling. You would be applying a diagonal force on the roof/wall which isn't the best.
ZRX61
Well-known member
Thanks Chris. Taking the time to break it down for me really helped me to understand all that was going on in the photos. Got a pretty good idea that I'll follow fairly close to the way you did it.
That's as good a plan as any. I had originally thought about bracing the east wall (same as left side of your pic #1) to keep it in place. After bracing the joists, I just thought I'd raise that side a bit and see how the building moved when I started up with the other side. It moved quite a bit on it's own. I also had the added benefit of the back of the building tied to another building. Not much holding, but some. Your idea to pull it back up some and brace that side to keep it from keeling over should be good.
I doubled the joists because they were old and I'd bet good money they would have split had they not been sistered with fresh wood and construction glue. One joist was already broken and had a temp patch. They just looked OLD.
Another idea (after bracing up the joists) might be to go up with the building on temp wall supports, then kind of scooch (sorry for the deep technical terms) the roof sideways a little at a time.
FWIW - I lifted an entire side of my building - 16x20 area, similar construction and two layers of shingles - with a Craftsman race floor jack and my backup HF orange $40 floor jack. The jacks had no problem lifting the building. I just went a little at a time, maybe 3-4 inches, then stopped, braced and looked things over. I nailed a stack of 2x6s for a jacking platform/joist spanner (pic #5) and used two double 2x4s as jack posts. Made sure they were straight, took them up against the joist brace snug then ran a screw into the brace in case the jack post got loose. Pump one jack, then the next, repeat. Survey the situation about every 3-4 pumps. Pic 8 shows the main sliding supports - 2 ea 2x4s made into an "H" and extended up beside a joist. Move the building up a bit, run some deck screws in from the sides, add a couple of misc 2x4s in the middle and the weight is supported. Support the weight on the jacks, remove the screws and go up again. You just inch it up and watch how it goes, then make adjustments.
I also kept the front and rear open, clear of obstructions and my tennis shoes tied tight.
I think I spent maybe $500~600 if that much.
Egyptians got those big boss stone blocks up the pyramid, for sure we can save a wood shed with a few tools!
Good ideas there. Geezs - was there some "Book Of Sheds" best seller in the 20s that had people building all these look-a-likes?
ZRX61
Well-known member
Why would they reassess your tax for fixing up a shed? It's not an improvement, it's a repair/maintenance.
& wouldn't 45 acres fall under agricultural use?
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cowboy73
Well-known member
I'd straighten it up. Is it going to be easy? No. Is it possible? Absolutely. People have started with a helluva lot less. I look forward to seeing the finished project.
I can't wait to see the progress. Take your time and find some good helpers that are framers
fflintstone
Well-known member
Buddy up to your other JEEP friends, the ones with winches on the front (I rescued a leaning garage with an 8,000 lb Ramsey) pull it square, put OSB on the inside of back wall to help with the racking (install while under tension from the winch).
If the front end racks partway back then you need to rebuild the front wall with a smaller door so you can have something that will resist racking.
Try just doing the back wall first. 4 sheets of OSB will only be about $30 and that alone should take care of 80%- 90% of the lean.
Go from there if you want to spend money on the front wall and a new door.
A lot of people on this board do not have the ability to “squeeze a nickel till the buffalo farts” if you spend $30 on OSB I think you will see a HUGE improvement.
be proud of your scotish heritage, I am proud of mine.
PM me your phone # if you want more cheap ideas to get a few more years out of the garage.
If the front end racks partway back then you need to rebuild the front wall with a smaller door so you can have something that will resist racking.
Try just doing the back wall first. 4 sheets of OSB will only be about $30 and that alone should take care of 80%- 90% of the lean.
Go from there if you want to spend money on the front wall and a new door.
A lot of people on this board do not have the ability to “squeeze a nickel till the buffalo farts” if you spend $30 on OSB I think you will see a HUGE improvement.
be proud of your scotish heritage, I am proud of mine.
PM me your phone # if you want more cheap ideas to get a few more years out of the garage.
I, for one, enjoy these type of threads. I don't have the time/talent to repair things like this but I love to read about them. What's the worst that can happen (baring it falling on someone)? It can't be saved and you are out some time and a little $??
Jeff
Jeff
InPrimer
Well-known member
In the 2 places I've lived, NY & AZ , as long as you "repair" the structure without modifing its footprint, you are not " inproving" but performing maintenance. I would search your county asseser's office and see what is considered re-assesment.
ZRX61
Well-known member
Def look into talking to the local Dept Of Ag office.. Farm Bureau? Ya might get a grant from the Govt to fix it
6768rogues
Banned
I fixed one like that on my son's property. The leaning problem is caused by no braced panels at the front corners, the entire front is open. It leaned like a house of cards. That is particularly a problem in seismically active areas. I braced up the front corners,cut the front corners out and put in 6x6 poles in the ground like a pole barn so it would support the front corners laterally. Yea, I had to remove a little concrete at the corners. Then I put a 2x8 down each wall attached to the studs with deck screws a couple of feet from the bottom to brace the walls. I cut off the bottom of each rotten stud, replaced the sill plate with a pressure treated plate, and sistered new studs beside each rotten one that needed to be cut off. Then I removed the 2x8 for reuse on the other sides. A few hundred dollars and a couple of weekends and it was straight and strong.
I put my Bobcat bucket against the top of one sidewall and pushed it up straight in the process.
I put my Bobcat bucket against the top of one sidewall and pushed it up straight in the process.
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Mine wasn't as bad as yours, but it was still bad enough that plenty of people told me to tear it down. I have maybe $3k invested in it, possibly less. I need to update the tread with some new pics, but this shows the beginning and some big progress from last year.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40923
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40923
e-tek
Well-known member
Thanks for the input Rogues.
And Bull...great thread.
Now that I've had more time to think about the possibilities, I'm starting to think about even putting a new slab under it. The "slab" now consists of three different ones, which are cracked and uneven. I never really noticed how bad it was until I got everything out of there two days ago. I don't know if its worth it...I could get by the way it is. If I did a new slab, I would have to either pour a new footing or make it into a pole barn style foundation...more time, more cost, more work. Ugh. A nice, flat level slab would be pretty nice though...
And Bull...great thread.
Now that I've had more time to think about the possibilities, I'm starting to think about even putting a new slab under it. The "slab" now consists of three different ones, which are cracked and uneven. I never really noticed how bad it was until I got everything out of there two days ago. I don't know if its worth it...I could get by the way it is. If I did a new slab, I would have to either pour a new footing or make it into a pole barn style foundation...more time, more cost, more work. Ugh. A nice, flat level slab would be pretty nice though...
You could always bust up the existing slab and put in some type of aggregate like what I used (not pictured in my thread yet I don't think) and run a compacter over it. Good enough for storing stuff, parking on, and doing light work on. Cheap and easy, too.
Well, I finally got started today. Made a little bit of progress. Cleaned out the garage and cut that stupid half garage door thing off. I was pretty tired of ducking all the time...or hitting my head on it.
Found out its a little worse than I thought... the back wall sill is rotten too.
Started to beef up the joists... when I realized they were sagging a bit - about 1.5" in the middle. Not sure whether I should bother with trying to straighten them out...
Anyway, slow start, but thought I'd share.
Found out its a little worse than I thought... the back wall sill is rotten too.
Started to beef up the joists... when I realized they were sagging a bit - about 1.5" in the middle. Not sure whether I should bother with trying to straighten them out...
Anyway, slow start, but thought I'd share.
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So I've finally made some real progress. A hectic month of work has taken its toll, but this week finally slowed down. I've been busy inside bracing up the roof joists:
So I found out what a slow wood butcher I am. Seemed to take forever. I guess I'm ready to prepare to pull this thing back upright. On the north side of the house I finally saw just how much leaves/dirt has piled up against the side.
It might be hard to tell from the pic, but there's a good six inches of dirt that's piled up. I figure its 2-3 yards that will need to be dug up by hand to get clear of the wood and to level the whole area so rain water doesn't run down the slope back towards the foundation. Joy. Then I get to start on the back. The ivy was all the way up to the vent before I started pulling it away.
I'm guessin another yard or two of junk to dig out. Oh well. Finally making some progress has felt like a real victory.
So I found out what a slow wood butcher I am. Seemed to take forever. I guess I'm ready to prepare to pull this thing back upright. On the north side of the house I finally saw just how much leaves/dirt has piled up against the side.
It might be hard to tell from the pic, but there's a good six inches of dirt that's piled up. I figure its 2-3 yards that will need to be dug up by hand to get clear of the wood and to level the whole area so rain water doesn't run down the slope back towards the foundation. Joy. Then I get to start on the back. The ivy was all the way up to the vent before I started pulling it away.
I'm guessin another yard or two of junk to dig out. Oh well. Finally making some progress has felt like a real victory.
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LEVE
Well-known member
I'm glad to see the rescue is underway. Good on you for not just burning the place down and starting over!
No worries there Bull. I had planned on documenting everything better, but when I got rolling I didn't stop. Just got back with another load of lumber.
Hey Rierferman, if you're still reading this thread, thanks for the book suggestion. "Renovating Barns, Sheds and Outbuildings" is a great read... its got a lot of practical ideas on how to fix things like this. I recommend it to anyone - I got my money's worth in the first 15 mins of reading.
Hopefully I'll make some more progress tonight with my temp wall support and get some stuff ready for the come-a-long routine.
Hey Rierferman, if you're still reading this thread, thanks for the book suggestion. "Renovating Barns, Sheds and Outbuildings" is a great read... its got a lot of practical ideas on how to fix things like this. I recommend it to anyone - I got my money's worth in the first 15 mins of reading.
Hopefully I'll make some more progress tonight with my temp wall support and get some stuff ready for the come-a-long routine.
6768rogues
Banned
The one I fixed for my son had a bad floor, but the floor was separate from the footer. I broke up what was left of the floor, took it out with the Bobcat, dug it out a little and put in #1 crusher run. Some compacting and it was ready for a new floor. A couple of years later my son tore it down and put up a new 42 by 63 building. Oh well, it got him through a couple of years.
Yeah, I wish that was the case. But this is a bottom plate 4x4 just sitting on the slab. After 30 years of nobody looking after it, its below grade on at least two sides.
Anyway, totally cleaned out one side of the garage tonight. Got a better look at the bottom sill...
So it has mostly slipped off the slab. Up front, its totally off and appears to be either warped or split in two. In the back, it looks like its mostly still on the slab. Weird. And the last photo shows where the back wall sill has actually lifted up a little bit from all the stress the outside wall has put on it.
I'm starting to wonder if I'm gonna have problems when I start winching the wall back up. It seems like the bottom of the south (right) wall is gonna have problems trying to "walk" up over the sill as it pulled back towards the left. I don't know if I'll need to jack it up a little first. Probably thinkin about it too much.
At any rate, I think I''m gonna build a temporary wall about 3 feet in which is tied into the rafters and joists. I'll build it about an inch off the floor so a) it doesn't get hung up on the floor as it slides over whilst winching the walls b) doesn't have far to fall if the wall does give out. Later, when i'm ready to jack the wall up and put a new plate under it, I'l have a ready made bracing point to take the weight off the jacks while working on the wall.
istephen
Active member
I wish I were there to help. Looks like a very rewarding project. I'd try to stand it back up into usable.
It doesn't look TOO bad really. You are not under a time deadline, so you can do this!
You've got the right idea I think. Stabilize what you have and prepare to straighten 'er up.
What would I do? step one would be to brace the place so it doesn't fall over when you start messin' with it. Then I would come-a-long the corners to try to get it to stand up straight(er) Then, you can lever/come-a-long the wall back in a little at a time to try to get the place back up on the pad. Little here, little there, lever it up onto the pad with a long prybar. Slide/tap the sill back into place with a sledgehammer, check the tension on the cables often. Maybe a bottle jack or two to help ease the wall and sill back up onto the slab. Stop and think...listen to the building, check for things getting pulled apart...just keep working it a little at a time until you are back on the pad and straight up and down again. Sure, you still have the wasted sill and rotted walls, but with everything back on the pad I imagine you will be a lot closer to safe and square than having the walls falling half off in the dirt.
You might even find it easier to replace some parts as you try to straighten up those walls. Can you slide the wall back up onto the pad and a slip in a new sill up there in the front at the same time? Shoot the old sill looks like it is all the way off into the dirt anyway and no longer attached to the wall.
Keep the plan simple. An engineered system that lifts the wall while you straighten it looks great on paper, but time and again I see that simple, slow, plans work best when dealing with heavy things. Might take longer, but so what.
It doesn't look TOO bad really. You are not under a time deadline, so you can do this!
You've got the right idea I think. Stabilize what you have and prepare to straighten 'er up.
What would I do? step one would be to brace the place so it doesn't fall over when you start messin' with it. Then I would come-a-long the corners to try to get it to stand up straight(er) Then, you can lever/come-a-long the wall back in a little at a time to try to get the place back up on the pad. Little here, little there, lever it up onto the pad with a long prybar. Slide/tap the sill back into place with a sledgehammer, check the tension on the cables often. Maybe a bottle jack or two to help ease the wall and sill back up onto the slab. Stop and think...listen to the building, check for things getting pulled apart...just keep working it a little at a time until you are back on the pad and straight up and down again. Sure, you still have the wasted sill and rotted walls, but with everything back on the pad I imagine you will be a lot closer to safe and square than having the walls falling half off in the dirt.
You might even find it easier to replace some parts as you try to straighten up those walls. Can you slide the wall back up onto the pad and a slip in a new sill up there in the front at the same time? Shoot the old sill looks like it is all the way off into the dirt anyway and no longer attached to the wall.
Keep the plan simple. An engineered system that lifts the wall while you straighten it looks great on paper, but time and again I see that simple, slow, plans work best when dealing with heavy things. Might take longer, but so what.
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Built the wall partway on the floor then stood it up
Tied it in to both the rafters and joists
Then braced it again on a diagonal from the studs back up to the joists where they meet the rafters
I had a laugh when I was all done...that new wall is about 10 times stronger than the existing wall. I might have overdone it a little bit...lets hope I don't really test it out.
You can see on the last pic how I buit it. I left six inches from the bottom of the studs to that first cross brace. That way, I can slide floor jack right under there and lift if I need to. I also cut the studs a little short (they're all sitting on a small piece of 2x4) so they can clear any irregularities on the floor when I start in with the come-a-longs.
After that I'm pretty well done for the day. The temps were in the high 90s today...so I called it a day at 3 pm.
Tied it in to both the rafters and joists
Then braced it again on a diagonal from the studs back up to the joists where they meet the rafters
I had a laugh when I was all done...that new wall is about 10 times stronger than the existing wall. I might have overdone it a little bit...lets hope I don't really test it out.
You can see on the last pic how I buit it. I left six inches from the bottom of the studs to that first cross brace. That way, I can slide floor jack right under there and lift if I need to. I also cut the studs a little short (they're all sitting on a small piece of 2x4) so they can clear any irregularities on the floor when I start in with the come-a-longs.
After that I'm pretty well done for the day. The temps were in the high 90s today...so I called it a day at 3 pm.
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istephen
Active member
Looks like a plan to me. Have a new sill on-site to replace what you can if things go your way during the move. Tighten up the cross-wise come-a-long and the bottom come-a-long(s). Tap things into place with the sledge to help them along the way. Maybe move the temp wall one tap at a time too. Maybe have that floor jack or two slightly lifting on that temp wall to lighten things up a bit and to ease the wall up onto the slab. Tap here, tighten the ratchet one click there, tap some more, ratchet some more. stop and see how things are going and what looks strained...
Keep your posts comin'! All I did today was scrub on my abused concrete floor. *shrugs* looks the same. At least your project shows improvement!
Keep your posts comin'! All I did today was scrub on my abused concrete floor. *shrugs* looks the same. At least your project shows improvement!
FabRight
Member
Looking forward to more updates and pics. Tune out the negativity here. Some people will tell you what they think you should do no matter what your actual cicmstance. Keep up the good work on that old building.
JC23
Well-known member
Fergus,
I'm one of those guys who saw your OP and thought, rent a dozier. That was because it would be way too much over my skill level. You kept digging, got a lot of good intel from the members here and are making it happen. Good on you and congrats. I guess it's like that old saying - How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Rock on!
I'm one of those guys who saw your OP and thought, rent a dozier. That was because it would be way too much over my skill level. You kept digging, got a lot of good intel from the members here and are making it happen. Good on you and congrats. I guess it's like that old saying - How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Rock on!
Motown 454
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,359
Nice job its looking good.