New Icon G2 Wrenches? (Not just Ratchets)

[neophyte]

Sorry, feeling extra cynical this evening: What could be the possible reason be for a GEN 2 (assuming) combination wrench from Icon?

As @Hakeem said early on, not perfect, but darned fine performing wrenches in the testing I know we all saw. Why would you possibly mess with that?

The cynic in me is saying it has something to do with the source. What if the source (supplier) bid for a 2 yr (5yr or whatever) contract and now wants more money to continue production? Or has HF had it with their supplier and are looking to trade the name for higher profits by bringing in cheaper Chinese wrenches under the Icon brand that we will all still buy thinking we are getting Snap on quality? The ole bait and switch?

Germany, Proto, on and on, made the same models of wrenches for decades. My guess is, this won't be a design improvement. I say, if you are eyeballing a set of FD+ Icon wrenches, maybe get them now and buy all you want because they may disappear. That's how this business model works and one of the reasons I won't support it. I can buy exact replacements of Snap On screwdrivers I bought 30 yrs ago.

Snap-On uses outside contractors, and shifts production around as well.

The Snap-On adjustable wrenches were likely made by Crescent at one point, (with the telltale dloppy manufacturing tolerances), then later shifted to the Spanish Snap-On Europe Irimo facility, (which also makes Bahco and other SO-E owned brands), which also had there own tolerance and manufacturing issues, and production later may have shifted to the USA.

The Snap-On vises, which were made for Snap-On by Wilton in the USA, are now made in Taiwan, because Wilton shifted production there.

Snap-On sometimes changes production model numbers when they change an item, or they add a suffix to the model number, similar to changes made when for instance, they change the color of product handles, but I’m not sure how consistent Snap-On is with this.
It has been documented over the years that Harbor Freight changes the model numbers for the same item when that item comes from a different manufacturer.

 

[lund]

I might be mentally deficient but how do you really improve on a combination wrench.

They can expand their line but I think I’m done buying anything that is a “set“ at Harbor Freight. They really need make it so you can purchase individual tools.

I‘ll say ”lifetime” warranty is BS for most of people. Especially those not working in a shop all the time. You‘ll be way more likely to lose a tool than break it if it is a decent tool. Not being able to purchase a replacement tool has become a major issue for me.

Think someone already said: But you CAN buy individual wrenches from a set on the online version of Harbor Freight. So you can get them. However, I think this only realistically works for a limited time till they replace the line with something else (which may be pretty close to previous). But that is true with pretty much anything. I would also prefer if they had singles in the stores, but they seem to reserve space for sets.

 

[mikey03]

The cheap **** they used to be great for is cheaper elsewhere, and the “good” **** does nothing for me. Kinda odd.

cheaper where? And what kinda stuff do you mean like wd40 at Walmart

 

[AEAdam]

Snap-On uses outside contractors, and shifts production around as well.

The Snap-On adjustable wrenches were likely made by Crescent at one point, (with the telltale dloppy manufacturing tolerances), then later shifted to the Spanish Snap-On Europe Irimo facility, (which also makes Bahco and other SO-E owned brands), which also had there own tolerance and manufacturing issues, and production later may have shifted to the USA.

The Snap-On vises, which were made for Snap-On by Wilton in the USA, are now made in Taiwan, because Wilton shifted production there.

Snap-On sometimes changes production model numbers when they change an item, or they add a suffix to the model number, similar to changes made when for instance, they change the color of product handles, but I’m not sure how consistent Snap-On is with this.
It has been documented over the years that Harbor Freight changes the model numbers for the same item when that item comes from a different manufacturer.

But not sockets or combination wrenches right? Those haven't moved or changed in a few decades, right? Not sure when the new logo came out. They added FDX but didn't remove flank drive. And not just Snap on. Other companies, and not just US ones, have kept their products similar for significant amounts of time.

You are really savvy about all this stuff. How long have Icon's combination wrenches been around? I feel like its only been a couple years, but maybe its been longer.

 

[L.Cheapo]

My money's on them changing the logo to a stylized Ic-On.

 

[liliysdad]

cheaper where? And what kinda stuff do you mean like wd40 at Walmart

Ratchet straps? Better and as cheap or cheaper at Tractor Supply or Wal Mart. Cheap drop hitch for a receiver? Cheaper and better at Wal Mart. Weld-in receiver tube? About the same price and way better at Bomgaars. Those are just the examples I have from the last week or two. With each of those, I went to Harbor Freight to buy, and wound up leaving with nothing, and purchasing elsewhere.


I don’t mess with tools much at Harbor Freight, so my opinion isn’t incredibly relevant as to cost vs value in that regard.

 

[mikey03]

Ratchet straps? Better and as cheap or cheaper at Tractor Supply or Wal Mart. Cheap drop hitch for a receiver? Cheaper and better at Wal Mart. Weld-in receiver tube? About the same price and way better at Bomgaars. Those are just the examples I have from the last week or two. With each of those, I went to Harbor Freight to buy, and wound up leaving with nothing, and purchasing elsewhere.


I don’t mess with tools much at Harbor Freight, so my opinion isn’t incredibly relevant as to cost vs value in that regard.

I wonder if that’s because HF regular price is inflated since they constantly offer 30% off

if you took 30% off the prices you saw at HF would that change your mind

 

[liliysdad]

I wonder if that’s because HF regular price is inflated since they constantly offer 30% off

if you took 30% off the prices you saw at HF would that change your mind

I’ve been shopping Harbor Freight for 20+ years…. I’m aware of how they work. They used to be a great place for cheap consumables, now not so much.

As for the “constant 30%,” I’m not sure I get how you’re spinning that. The have sales, and better sales if you pay the admission fee. I’ve played the ITC membership game, and chased coupons back when they actually had decent ones.



I am a bargain shopper by trade…and there just isn’t much they offer anymore that entices me. In the nearest decent size town, I have my pic of Tractor Supply, ACE, Bomgaars, Wal Mart, AutoZone, Oreilly, or Harbor Freight. Rarely is Harbor Freight the cheapest and best option.

 

[neophyte]

But not sockets or combination wrenches right? Those haven't moved or changed in a few decades, right? Not sure when the new logo came out. They added FDX but didn't remove flank drive. And not just Snap on. Other companies, and not just US ones, have kept their products similar for significant amounts of time.

You are really savvy about all this stuff. How long have Icon's combination wrenches been around? I feel like its only been a couple years, but maybe its been longer.

I’m unsure how long the ICON combination wrenches have been around.
I honestly only started paying attention to the ICON line when HF added some pliers to the line that I was interested in.
The ICON line only goes back to 2018, and HF was “copying” Snap-On’s look for tools way before that.

 

[pfbz]

Wow, considering how "leaky" HF typically is with information, not much info to be gleaned here.

I could definitely see Icon expanding their wrench. line up, Flare nut, thin, short but not stubby for example, but that hardly warrants a "G2" label.

I feel like the Icon wrenches are right up there with the best of the Taiwanese wrenches (perhaps a notch under Mac/USAG RBRT) and not in need of an overhaul like their ratchets were.

I suppose depending on who they view as their competition and what their buyers want, they could dabble in US or German made wrenches, though I doubt it.

Of the theories mentioned here, a semi-forced design change do to a change in supplier seems plausible, but I would assume they own the design rights to their wrenches (most of them at least) regardless of who makes them?

My leading theory? DOT mis-interpreted some info and repeated it incorrectly.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Wow, considering how "leaky" HF typically is with information, not much info to be gleaned here.

I could definitely see Icon expanding their wrench. line up, Flare nut, thin, short but not stubby for example, but that hardly warrants a "G2" label.

I feel like the Icon wrenches are right up there with the best of the Taiwanese wrenches (perhaps a notch under Mac/USAG RBRT) and not in need of an overhaul like their ratchets were.

I suppose depending on who they view as their competition and what their buyers want, they could dabble in US or German made wrenches, though I doubt it.

Of the theories mentioned here, a semi-forced design change do to a change in supplier seems plausible, but I would assume they own the design rights to their wrenches (most of them at least) regardless of who makes them?

My leading theory? DOT mis-interpreted some info and repeated it incorrectly.

Their Icon wrenches are holdovers from the brand’s launch, back when HF thought that copying Snappy was all that mattered. The wrench scene has changed a lot since then with the emergence of SBD’s line-up, the resurgence of Wright’s popularity, and the arrival of GripEdge tech and the foam craze hitting the Snappy market. I could totally see HF revamping the whole wrench line to be more competitive with the better options. And it would have precedent as the G2 ratchets are nothing like the G1s and the Series3 boxes had a massive drawer and closing mechanism revamp. It will be interesting to see which way they go. Don’t forget that there are rumors of an Icon storage redesign too.

 

[AEAdam]

Their Icon wrenches are holdovers from the brand’s launch, back when HF thought that copying Snappy was all that mattered. The wrench scene has changed a lot since then with the emergence of SBD’s line-up, the resurgence of Wright’s popularity, and the arrival of GripEdge tech and the foam craze hitting the Snappy market. I could totally see HF revamping the whole wrench line to be more competitive with the better options. And it would have precedent as the G2 ratchets are nothing like the G1s and the Series3 boxes had a massive drawer and closing mechanism revamp. It will be interesting to see which way they go. Don’t forget that there are rumors of an Icon storage redesign too.

Good points. I guess, what do I know…. I guess I feel like in the testing I saw, the Icon wrenches performed really well. Surely HF isn’t looking to be the best.

The G1 ratchets were kinda junky from what I heard. G2 are more like dual 80s so much so that their guts are interchangeable. I could see rolling in revisions of the ratchets, offering new handle options, colors, variations etc. But combination wrenches?

I think my friends here on GJ sometimes forget HF is not a tool manufacturer. They are little more than an importer of low cost goods. Improving products probably means new sources of supply, not developing manufacturing facilities. My GUESS is, a change to their combination wrenches will be driven by the supply chain. And while recent product changes seem to have resulted in higher quality for higher prices, with this business model, you never quite know what you will get.

 

[dnschmidt]

***** about HF as much as you want. But they are the BORG and you will be assimilated. They open new stores every day and other tool sources close every day. That's just the cold hard facts.

 

[M635_Guy]

I’m unsure how long the ICON combination wrenches have been around.

It looks like six years ago or so - 2019. I'd guess they announced them at SEMA the year before??

 

[Fedwrench]

What you peeps need to do is figure out what's new in wrenches from Kabo, Infar, and other Taiwan tool manufacturers to assist your crystal ball gazing efforts to see into the future
I predict satin finished wrenches like Capri has SEMA only like 8 months away

 

[dchawk81]

Good points. I guess, what do I know…. I guess I feel like in the testing I saw, the Icon wrenches performed really well. Surely HF isn’t looking to be the best.

The G1 ratchets were kinda junky from what I heard. G2 are more like dual 80s so much so that their guts are interchangeable. I could see rolling in revisions of the ratchets, offering new handle options, colors, variations etc. But combination wrenches?

I think my friends here on GJ sometimes forget HF is not a tool manufacturer. They are little more than an importer of low cost goods. Improving products probably means new sources of supply, not developing manufacturing facilities. My GUESS is, a change to their combination wrenches will be driven by the supply chain. And while recent product changes seem to have resulted in higher quality for higher prices, with this business model, you never quite know what you will get.

The Snap On wannabe wrenches kinda prove that they don't just import whatever they can get their hands on. They tell manufacturers what they want.

 

[E46 Tony]

Don’t forget that there are rumors of an Icon storage redesign too.

That one isn't a rumor, they showed the prototypes at SEMA that were pretty much a Snap-On Epiq clone.

 

[liliysdad]

That one isn't a rumor, they showed the prototypes at SEMA that were pretty much a Snap-On Epiq clone.

Imagine that…

 

[Drunkonunleaded]

That would be my thought as well. The MAC/Facom/USAG/Craftsman wrenches have all tested well and have received really favorable reviews. Seeing as how HF seems to be trying to combine all the positive stuff into one tool, I’d imagine some kind of MAC clone would be their G2 wrench.

A few guys online have been suggesting that the Gen2 wrenches will all be foam and that’s the big change. Not necessarily the wrench changing.

I am surprised because their wrenches are probably the most hyped Icon tools and they actually perform very well. Seems crazy to change it but I guess that’s life.

Carlyle wrenches changed their COO from Taiwan to China. The wrenches got a bit thicker and had a worse finish. I provided a comparison in the thread here.

About a year later, they "rebranded" and the wrenches came in foam. I suspect that G2 Icon will be similar.

 

[CoThG]

That one isn't a rumor, they showed the prototypes at SEMA that were pretty much a Snap-On Epiq clone.

Sleazy marketing from Icon as they claim that new box is 30" deep, but they INCLUDE the measurement of the front trim pieces.

 

[mngundog]

Anyone have a Snap-on Epiq box, that they could put a tape measure on, to see if it's not measured the exact same way?

 

[neharr41]

Anyone have a Snap-on Epiq box, that they could put a tape measure on, to see if it's not measured the exact same way?

They are measured the same way. Every tool truck brand measures their toolbox dimensions from the back to the front trim. It’s industry standard.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

So blinded by the light that facts become irrelevant. Crazy.

 

[CoThG]

So blinded by the light that facts become irrelevant. Crazy.

I choose "truth over facts"...

 

[rust in the eye]

Since Icon copies everything Snap-On, they will probably come out with a copy of Flank Drive Plus.

In orange

 

[CoThG]

In orange

Orange chrome would be cool.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

Man, every HF thread that pops up makes me want a HF in my life. Anyone got some connections to Harbor Freight HQ C-Suite? Tell them how much we need a HF in Germany and if they need an influencer I readily bend the knee and give it everything I got.

I just need a HF in my life!!!

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[rust in the eye]

Orange chrome would be cool.

That would be cool

 

[Chipm]

They really need make it so you can purchase individual tools.

They sell replacement pieces for the set. Supposedly you have to upload a receipt showing you actually bought the set. However, I recently replaced a lost wrench and did not have to show any proof of purchase - just dropped it in the cart, checked out, and it showed up in the mail.

 

[Callelle]

I choose "truth over facts"...

I believe the term was already coined "alternate facts"

 

[Steve_P]

Sleazy marketing from Icon as they claim that new box is 30" deep, but they INCLUDE the measurement of the front trim pieces.

OMG, possibly including the trim pieces! I'll never be able to fit that wrench set in it now

If it's 29.85" is that relevant? If a Snap on 8" plier was only 7.9" would you be screaming? Measurements get rounded all the time. No one says they're 5' 11.75" tall, they say they're 6 feet tall.

 

[Hakeem]

OMG, possibly including the trim pieces! I'll never be able to fit that wrench set in it now

If it's 29.85" is that relevant? If a Snap on 8" plier was only 7.9" would you be screaming? Measurements get rounded all the time. No one says they're 5' 11.75" tall, they say they're 6 feet tall.

Hell, Snapon calls their 1/4” ratchets “Dual 80” despite only having 72 teeth. Possibly the most egregious case of false advertising since “The Neverending Story” …

 

[Steve_P]

Carlyle wrenches changed their COO from Taiwan to China. The wrenches got a bit thicker and had a worse finish. I provided a comparison in the thread here.

About a year later, they "rebranded" and the wrenches came in foam. I suspect that G2 Icon will be similar.

I went to Napa today, first time in at least a year, and they rearranged the front of the store. They now have some Carlyle tools on display in the front, which they've never had before. While I'm sure they're fine for someone off the street that needs a socket or single wrench today, they didn't exactly look inspiring; and that's being generous.

 

[Tundra1]

Yeah, bummer about Carlyle. Seems like they had the chance to leverage their classic name and reputation for quality. Instead they changed color and went high prices and blah quality.

 

[M635_Guy]

Sleazy marketing from Icon as they claim that new box is 30" deep, but they INCLUDE the measurement of the front trim pieces.

 

[M635_Guy]

Carlyle wrenches changed their COO from Taiwan to China. The wrenches got a bit thicker and had a worse finish. I provided a comparison in the thread here.

About a year later, they "rebranded" and the wrenches came in foam. I suspect that G2 Icon will be similar.

That's a shame about Carlyle - did they lower their prices? They were at a pretty premium price point, even compared to Icon.

I doubt Icon will go MiC or to a lower standard. They seem to have pretty solid momentum, and shadowing Carlyle would be a bad move IMHO. I guess we'll see...

 

[CoThG]

Hell, Snapon calls their 1/4” ratchets “Dual 80” despite only having 72 teeth. Possibly the most egregious case of false advertising since “The Neverending Story” …

Actually, you are wrong. They call it "Dual 80 Technology"...

 

[mngundog]

Actually, you are wrong. They call it "Dual 80 Technology"...

Sounds like sleazy marketing. Snap-on does the same with their boxes, marketing them as being 30" deep, while including the front trim pieces in that measurement.

 

[CoThG]

Sounds like sleazy marketing. Snap-on does the same with their boxes, marketing them as being 30" deep, while including the front trim pieces in that measurement.

I called SO rep about that today and he said that he was told by SO corporate, during his training, that if asked about it, to say that the 30" isn't drawer depth, but the depth of the footprint the box takes up so you'll know how much space you'll need on the shop floor.

 

[CoThG]

Sounds like sleazy marketing. Snap-on does the same with their boxes, marketing them as being 30" deep, while including the front trim pieces in that measurement.

Not sleazy marketing, but accurate marketing. The 72T 1/4" drive uses the same technology (dual pawl) as the 80T 3/8" drive, so calling it Dual 80 TECHNOLOGY is a truthful statement.